GT6 'MY HOME' HUB: Awards time.

[photonrider]

Here's (what will be one day referred to as the 'Tsukuba Tests' and) is my second round of the Tsukuba Tests - same MO as above but with the Driver on Automatic transmission.

AUT/ON/1 : 2:22:393
AUT/ON/2 : 2:18:496
AUT/ON/3 : 2:15:774

AUT/OFF/1 : 2:22:667
AUT/OFF/2 : 2:18:705
AUT/OFF/3 : 2:13:628

As I strongly suspected while ripping apart GT5, PD is playing with us, and (to me) has always displayed a quirky humour and a modicum of genius in the way they 'channel' us around the game.

In any case, at this point in time, we'll stop to take stock of how deep into the hole we have plunged - so we go back to where we started:

If we take 3 consoles, put in 3 discs, and have a PC run an NSX '01 for 2 laps around Tsukuba in each different game on the consoles concurrently, then:

(A) The Personal B-Spec Drivers will all run the same (very close times for any particular settings)

OR

(B) The Personal B-Spec Drivers will run different (vastly different times - even factoring variables - for particular settings)

If (A) then every console will output similar results - even 50 million consoles.
If (B) then every console will output significantly different results - even 50 million consoles.

There is another factor to this that we will put aside for the moment: Are all the Drivers the same when they are 'born'?

Right now we can see that (whatever the condition of Junior, Mr. Mantere, and Hotchkiss at the time we conducted the tests) the three drivers are performing significantly differently.

This may be because:

(I) They have learned skills since beginning to race.

OR

(II) They are set at certain 'temperaments' for each Driver that temper these performances.

For instance a 'Hot' Driver (born 'Hot') will do better at MOP or PTP than PIH.
A 'Cool' Driver will do better at PIH than a 'Hot' driver.

From the 3 sets of Results it seems that all three Drivers do better with certain settings than others - and not the same settings, either.

Obviously the first thing we get from all this is that: 1: No - not all Personal B-Spec Drivers are robots with the same 'personalities/skills/temperaments' and so therefore when left alone do not lapse into a zombie state and do the identical thing.
2: Compatible settings boost the Driver's performance.
3: Add real-time commands to this, and you have the makings of a very fine online scenario. To come.

And, on top of that, if we can prove that everybody got a 'different' Driver, that would be a boatload of fun.
Whether they got it by 'earning' that driver or it was just how the seed was planted in the disc is another matter for uproar.


_____________________



I have also conducted more tests - more brand new NSXs being bought, used, and sold, and I have also noticed that phenomenon we are getting used to - the new fields they give Hotchkiss are faster; more fast rabbits coming out of that Tsukuba hole to challenge Hotchkiss as is.
The faster he gets the faster the fields become.

One more point - it seems like the Personal B-Spec Drivers also seem to imitate our own driving in the game - but that's just a subjective observation.

More tests will be coming up - as well as Special Events - but for now, I suggest we take a break, ponder this over, and take this information back to our B-Spec races as we use our Drivers. As well - time to enjoy the Seasonals a bit before we challenge ourselves again.

We'll catch up with the trophy ceremony later.
Congrats on the 2 trophies now. @Baron Blitz Red

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

Thanks @photonrider , count me in for more hunting as I find myself enjoying the taste of Hasenpfeffer again... even more so now than as a child. (Yes, I've had it in real life)

Cheers

 

[8l23ub]

the

 

[photonrider]

I think the rabbits got your post. Try again - or you may edit the post using this tag:

at the bottom of that post (you will have to log in for that.)

Hit 'Edit', the post will come up for reconstruction, either type 'deleted' and repost it, or scrub the post clean, say what you have to once more, and repost it.
Cheers.

Thanks @photonrider , count me in for more hunting as I find myself enjoying the taste of Hasenpfeffer again... even more so now than as a child. (Yes, I've had it in real life)
Cheers

Isn't that like cannibalism?

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

Isn't that like cannibalism?

I never told you my name was Lecter... Awww 🤬, I did it again!

(Running footsteps, slams door, screaching tires)

Cheers

 

[photonrider]

A bottle of screech would cure that.
Make it the Newfie kind.

I'm wondering if someone (MTM? ) can help put all these figures in some kind of spreadsheet so that we can look at the patterns in the tapestry.

Stepping back and having a look at what all the details make up would be a first step in trying to see this better. Then maybe we can see the different patterns that connect to give us a picture of what actually makes up our B-Spec Drivers. Understanding our own drivers will also help us to understand the AI Rabbits we use to engineer races for ourselves - and that, of course, will enhance the enjoyment of our game.

Here's a thought:
When Players play the A-Spec Seasonals it seems like they are engaged in an 'Online' race instead of an 'Offline' (Career Mode) race. Not at all. The races are no different from one in Career Mode, apart from being 'new' and only playable when you are logged into PSN.
We are still racing against B-Spec rabbits, that we are.

TT Competitors have their PSN Leaderboards - A-Spec Racers don't have that luxury; hence GTPlanet.
It is GTPlanet that brings us together (in threads like this for instance) and makes it a truly 'Online' experience for A-Spec Racers.

Now . . . digging deeper into the hole, I find some fossils:

PLUS:

And . . .:

So as you can see - I'm going to be busy for awhile in the past.



Meanwhile, before I go backwards hurriedly - Agenda?

A: Award Winners from last round's Seasonal Beginner, Intermediate, and Expert A-Spec Race Challenges can go ahead and ready their next challenges, or use the nowayback clause as they think fit.

I have one ready for the Beginners - also have a timesheet - will put it up presently.

At this point I would like to honour Baron Blitz Red's efforts by asking him to make up the event for the Amateur Class - Any A-Spec or B-Spec Race Event from Career Mode or any A-Spec Event from the current Seasonals to be used with rules as per all PD in-game regulations. Holders of VicReign Rights will be scorned if they come near this event.

B: Spreadsheet analysis of 1st and 2nd Tsukuba Tests

3: Tests of bots in GT5 as comparison.

I'll handle the last one . . .
. . . now when did I put that time machine?

 

[MTM79]

Maybe someone with an actual computer at hands might be able to help with the spreadsheet? I'm off work for couple of weeks and hang out here with my phone ATM.

Sidenote, what's with the rabbits at current seasonals? I've been grinding beginner and intermediate, mostly intermediate, with different cars. Looks like the faster I go the faster they go. I've hit them with everything I've got, all my fast cars, and somehow they just keep going faster and faster. Very interesting races.

 

[photonrider]

They're on to you, MTM - news travels fast through the burrows.

Yes, the faster you do a race, the more fast (or more difficult) the races will get. Reverse is also true.

The game appears to be intuitive.

At work, too, so back later.

Yeah - someone good with a spreadsheet should put those numbers together.

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

At this point I would like to honour Baron Blitz Red's efforts by asking him to make up the event for the Amateur Class - Any A-Spec or B-Spec Race Event from Career Mode or any A-Spec Event from the current Seasonals to be used with rules as per all PD in-game regulations. Holders of VicReign Rights will be scorned if they come near this event.

Okay... you asked for it! May I present to you...​

"The Horrible Bosses Cup"​

So just to make things interesting, I've decided to ask all available racers to "Come on Down, you're the next contestant on the Prius is Right!!!". Head on over to Japan, for the International B Licence - Tour of Japan event #3 at Suzuka Circuit for 4 laps of 600pp or less of Sports Soft tires fun. Take on the field in one of these monsters...

Tuning is available (and highly recommended) to laugh at the competition in your 445pp, 226hp, 1035kg Toyota Prius Touring Car. Fastest time wins!!!

"He's lost it!" you say. "He's stark raving mad" you think to yourself.

Well just to prove I'm not totally bonkers...

BEAT THAT PEOPLE!!!

Cheers

 

[MTM79]

They're on to you, MTM - news travels fast through the burrows.
Yes, the faster you do a race, the more fast (or more difficult) the races will get. Reverse is also true.
The game appears to be intuitive.

Yup, I'm quite familiar with the phenomenon.

What I meant was, that during previous weeks when I took out my best cars and gave them my best run, it usually resulted in winning marginals like +40 seconds at beginner, +20 seconds at intermediate and +10 seconds at expert. This varies from race to race of cource, but gaps gave been like this more or less.

This week at the beginner, I take one of my best cars, do my best time with a flawless race, and the rabbit finishes +0,7 seconds behind me. So I barely win at beginner with my best shot. At intermediate the rabbits are on average 6 seconds behind me at all times, no matter how fast I go. And at expert, I have only been able to beat the rabbits with two different cars so far.

So what I'm thinking is, that someone has heard the general cries of seasonal races and AI being ridiculously easy. And that something has been done to it. I hope that it is a permanent change, it has been a long time since I've felt challenged by the AI.

 

[photonrider]

I really like the three A-Spec seasonals we have going now - and you're right - they're tougher, but they're tougher in a different way.
Remember we discussed the phenomenon of how they are handicapped, and from what I see now, the handicaps are being shuffled in a way that makes it harder for us to get to the front as fast as we used to.
Now you must also be familiar with the pattern of 'window of opportunity' that happens in the races - when we keep repeating the same race for instance we can see that we meet up with particular cars in a particular spot, so that if we keep repeating the race, then we know to expect that car there, and we can plan our overtake.

If we do the same race several times, then overtaking that particular car becomes easy, we do it faster, and we go on to tackle the next car; for instance in the Expert Challenge, we might overtake the Pesky C60 at the 3rd corner and the Deltawing at the 6th corner and then the 787B and Speed 8 together at the 9th corner and so on till we, say, reach #1,2#, and #3 just crossing the Finish line 5 seconds ahead of us.
So we go back and trim off 5 seconds, but then all the overtakes are now a little closer than the spot we overtook before when we were 5 seconds short.
If we trim 10 seconds off our time - now all the overtakes are in different spots - and may be spots difficult to overtake or where we come into contact with the AI and take a tumble.
In a sense 'timing' is crucial. Too fast and you get bogged down with traffic in spots that will slow you down. Too slow and the traffic gets too far ahead to catch up.

So when we time the clean overtakes perfectly (in some spots the AI actually move over to give you a clean and thrilling pass) as if pretending for a moment that it is a driving simulator running a racer-training program that we are using - then suddenly we tumble into that perfect race in which the whole thing is a graceful dance around the AI and the course; not too fast to be unrealistic, not too slow to be less than average, a race where every driver performed the optimum.

I have become so addicted to the Expert this time - just doing it over and over in a Pesky Hybride with a stock tranny and a most outstanding suspension tune which I acquired recently - coming 3rd, 4th, or sometimes 5th but enjoying every race.
And getting closer to timing tbose overtakes right so I can get those lead rabbits where I'm supposed to get them - racing me to the finish line after I take them at the last corner.

So, yes, you are right in that aspect, too - the races are getting different, and we're being challenged in many ways.
This game is just warming up.

 

[MTM79]

I usually have a large window of opportunity. I tend to overtake everywhere. A clean overtake can be done on surprising places.

This race i referred to was mostly about whether I can catch the rabbit or not..



I managed to overtake him between the last two corners..

 

[photonrider]

I usually have a large window of opportunity. I tend to overtake everywhere. A clean overtake can be done on surprising places.

This is true - but one must catch up with the car to do that.

This race i referred to was mostly about whether I can catch the rabbit or not..

View attachment 395394

I managed to overtake him between the last two corners..

I got him way before that - and it was a clean sweep:

That is our ol' pal Chapman. Also a 3:25 race. He dogged me all the way to the Finish line, suddenly getting a burst of speed:

So even though I passed him at a heckuva clip, as soon as I passed he went into 'overtake, overtake, overtake' mode.

_____________________


Results of Manual Tests at Tsukuba running MOP, PTP, and PIH with alternating Aids On/Off, followed by Special control run of Automatic/Off/PIH


Mr. Mantere:

MAN/ON/1 - 2:24.402
MAN/ON/2 - 2:17.968
MAN/ON/3 - 2:15.675

MAN/OFF/1 - 2:25.030
MAN/OFF/2 - 2:16.976
MAN/OFF/3 - 2:15.869

AUT/OFF/3S - 2:17.829

Hotchkiss:

MAN/ON/1 - 2:25:946
MAN/ON/2 - 2:17:611
MAN/ON/3 - 2:20:506

MAN/OFF/1 - 2:23:134
MAN/OFF/2 - 2:20:980
MAN/OFF/3 - 2:15:590

AUT/OFF/3S - 2:17:069

Junior:

MAN/ON/1 - 2.26.333
MAN/ON/2 - 2.17.512
MAN/ON/3 - 2.17.288

MAN/OFF/1 - 2.23.330
MAN/OFF/2 - 2.17.606
MAN/OFF/3 - 2.15.477

AUT/OFF/3S - 2.13.621


Mr. Mantere:

AUT/ON/1 - 2:25.555
AUT/ON/2 - 2:19.121
AUT/ON/3 - 2:18.158

AUT/OFF/1 - 2:25.512
AUT/OFF/2 - 2:18.632
AUT/OFF/3 - 2:14.944


Hotchkiss:

AUT/ON/1 : 2:22:393
AUT/ON/2 : 2:18:496
AUT/ON/3 : 2:15:774

AUT/OFF/1 : 2:22:667
AUT/OFF/2 : 2:18:705
AUT/OFF/3 : 2:13:628

Junior:

AUT/ON/1 - 2.24.347
AUT/ON/2 - 2.17.696
AUT/ON/3 - 2.12.924

AUT/OFF/1 - 2.23.614
AUT/OFF/2 - 2.17.133
AUT/OFF/3 - 2.14.671

 

[photonrider]

OP was updated with two new events.

Beginner Seasonals
Beginner Amateur

To come:
B-Spec Open
B-Spec Amateur
Intermediate Seasonals
Expert Seasonals

And ongoing:
B-Spec GT3 Series. (2nd race)

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

Well @photonrider this should hold up for about 2 minutes...

Cheers

 

[photonrider]

Hah! I knew it. Mr. Hu is faster than Kowalczyk. So is Chapman faster than Hu? This means the AI could probably break 7:20.

They are beginning to smell the carrots.

Great job with the BRZ. Looks like that is going to be Subrau's secret weapon here. Then again . . . you never know what may come out of the woods.

 

[MTM79]

It did last for over 30 minutes..



Edit. And an answer to the question, who is the fastest AI at beginner?

 

[steve nfs]

I just wonder if a hardcore drifter player use his drift tune car on B-spec, is it his B-spec driver going to compete with drifting style the whole race ?

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

After eating some supper, I found some Canucks to cheer me along in this one...

Cheers

 

[photonrider]

After eating some supper, I found some Canucks to cheer me along in this one...

Cheers

Holy Canuckfest! It's a Canuckspiracy! What's going on there? It's like the rabbits get jealous about everything. They got to have the fastest Canucks, too?
Half the field is Canuck!

I just wonder if a hardcore drifter player use his drift tune car on B-spec, is it his B-spec driver going to compete with drifting style the whole race ?

Do it! Test it out - one race with a drift tune, another without; see how the rabbits behave - check the logs, watch the replays and see if there is a significant difference. Report back in 24 hours - if we don't see you after that we're going to take it that the rabbits have got you.

*What happened to Steve?
It wuz da rabbits - dey got him
OMgaaaawd. Pore Stevie!
They thought he was a giant carrot.

It did last for over 30 minutes..

View attachment 396415

Nice job, MTM79. You are raising the bar all right. 👍

Edit. And an answer to the question, who is the fastest AI at beginner?

View attachment 396432

So, it is Chapman as I expected. This guy is usually the fastest in the beginners. He drives a white Elise, too:

He gives no quarter - I've battled with him a lot. He's faster in the white Elise.

I have also noticed another new wrinkle - Beginner lead rabbits who are in the Intermediate mid-packs. Same names, different initials, different car.

Edit: "David Destroyer?" "Lambob Dancer' ? And there sere two other Awards, too, not settled yet?

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

Holy Canuckfest! It's a Canuckspiracy! What's going on there? It's like the rabbits get jealous about everything. They got to have the fastest Canucks, too?
Half the field is Canuck!

I know eh... That's half the reason why I posted it. I have never seen that many AI Canadian flags before. And that's with buying this game on Day 1 of its launch. I'm hard pressed to think of an online lobby with that many either tbh.

The other half of the reason was I improved my time from before... Hehehehe!

Cheers

 

[MTM79]

"David Destroyer?" "Lambob Dancer' ? And there sere two other Awards, too, not settled yet?

Both of them to Vic Reign . If I'm not mistaken. What other awards do you mean??

 

[photonrider]

I know eh... That's half the reason why I posted it. I have never seen that many AI Canadian flags before. And that's with buying this game on Day 1 of its launch. I'm hard pressed to think of an online lobby with that many either tbh.

The other half of the reason was I improved my time from before... Hehehehe!

Cheers

The only time I've seen that many Canadians in an Online Lobby is the US versus Canada Wars in GT5, I used to join up - great fun sometimes four of us Canucks battling an entire field of Americans, at other times we might have up to six Canadians and give the Americans a good fight.

Maybe other players should have a look at this, too - I can confirm that I get a lot of Canadian drivers, too, in my A-Spec and B-Spec races - far more than the one or sometimes two alotted to other countries.
Does the Players own location flag trigger this?

Both of them to Vic Reign . If I'm not mistaken. What other awards do you mean??

Thanks MTM79 - I'll put that up.
Those two were for Expert Seasonal (Whoosier) and B-Spec Open (non-Whoosier.) - so, yes, Vic Reign93 can hold on to both of them
There were two other Awards that went missing during my little hiatus - so it must be the Beginner Seasonals (Kart?)
and the Intermediate Seasonals (Rolling Roadblocks?) both of which were Whoosier ruled.
I need to dig deeper into the thread to get the stats.

This is a good time to step back and review the thread - almost 600 posts and the second largest thread in this Sub-Forum.
A good time to say 'Thank You' to all who participated to make this a reality, not forgetting all of you who jumped in right away to give the project a boost - you know who you are; your posts are right there showing tremendous skill and enthusiasm, and much appreciation to the regulars who built on the foundation we laid, and turned this into a very informative, entertaining, challenging, and socially-rich thread.

_______________________________________

A quick note about the test of the two GT5 B-Spec Drivers; one hot (Ms. Ivana Kiss), and one cold (Bubba 'Beau' Best) running the Tsukuba tests at their own pace in an NSX '01.
Mr. Best bested Ms Kiss. Hope they make up.

After the trial all 6 Drivers were down. Orange Arrows. Win or lose they don't like repeating races.

 

[steve nfs]

Drift tune or race tune, still got second place with B-spec (set to push hard) after you race it yourself to win it. If you don't race yourself to win it first on A-spec definitely got position 8. when you use B-spec.

This event regulation is 650pp with Racing hard. I use 600pp with Sport hard tires to test/tune and win it with A-spec. Maybe with the Racing tires/650pp could have won it with B-spec.(Got 2nd place,cos using low PP & SH tires)

Conclusion ; Use B-spec (Push it hard) after you win it by yourself on A-spec, better than using (My own style).

 

[photonrider]

Drift tune or race tune, still got second place with B-spec (set to push hard) after you race it yourself to win it.

You're back! And in one piece, too.
That's very interesting to hear because I began to come to the same conclusions; the B-Spec driver seems to 'learn' from us.
If I sent him off alone to do the race he never did as well as if I did the race first and then let him have the car.
How true is this hypothesis then - that our AI Driver 'learns' - from us as well as from experience?
In the infographic above that shows all the GT5 B-Spec drivers we can see that the Experience bar for even the drivers who have never raced much, or even at all, have full experience bars - because, as we learned in GT5, the drivers give each other 'Experience' when they race.
Is it also possible, then, that the more we race our drivers the better they become?

I also notice that your field is slower when your B-Spec driver is slower.

If you don't race yourself to win it first on A-spec definitely got position 8. when you use B-spec. .................
Conclusion ; Use B-spec (Push it hard) after you win it by yourself on A-spec, better than using (My own style).

I am presently running the Tomahawk in B-Spec races (Hotchkiss just loves the car ) and having settled on what I think are the settings he likes best (Manual, ABS1, TCS1, everything else off) he is just blazing away doing faster times that I could possibly do. I haven't tried the Tomahawk, myself, yet. Too bad we can't take it to the Expert Seasonals at R246.
I'll do some races, and see if he does better than he did before if he follows me right away.
My B-Spec Driver seems to be a little more on the 'cold' side than 'hot' so does not go too wild when Push It hard is applied.

 

[steve nfs]

Although I use 50pp less & sport hard tires, the leader rabbit still chase and ram me if you are not doing a 'perfect' lap. Its actually not easy to win when using the lower spec. I never use any aids. If you use the SRF or other aids maybe your B-spec driver will smile.. Suprising me is, this race just like the expert seasonal event (Big Willow)not long ago, in this arcade mode. . Maybe bcos after those new updates the AI cars becomes Mad Max drivers

Ps : Using 600pp bcos this is Ferrari 599 . Still 1 pp more..

 

[photonrider]

Although I use 50pp less & sport hard tires, the leader rabbit still chase and ram me if you are not doing a 'perfect' lap. Its actually not easy to win when using the lower spec. I never use any aids. If you use the SRF or other aids maybe your B-spec driver will smile..

Have you noticed a difference in performance in different settings for your B-Spec driver?
As you can see from the tests that 3 of us did independently it indicates that the different settings affect the different drivers in different ways.
It doesn't seem like the B-Spec Driver is 'standard' for everyone or the individual 'performances' are standard.
There seem to be many variables to their performances, though there also shows a distinct pattern - from low performances to higher performances with possible triggers showing. Remember, I'm talking about our own B-Spec Drivers.

When we apply this sort of stuff to what the AI might be doing, then we're walking into even deeper swamps.
Obviously, we understand them a lot better now than when we began this thread.

Surprising me is, this race just like the Expert Seasonal event (Big Willow)not long ago, in this arcade mode. . Maybe bcos after those new updates the AI cars becomes Mad Max drivers

Whenever a new A-Spec Seasonal race comes along i\I dive into Career Mode in search of the race duplicated in the game - and most often than not the same race with the same AI are in there.
Not always. They can also lift a whole bunch of AI from one race and give them a new track and that becomes a Seasonal. They show the Tomahawk, too, at Willow in the movie, so I went looking for something similar and there is a similar race in Career Mode, but not all the cars are red.
I believe they have some system of mixing-and-matching grids and tracks - would we ever have this function to design our own events that way?
Maybe a function to come.
Meanwhile, having studied the DNA of this AI from the birth of B-Spec Bob, all I can see is . . .
. . . more and more stuff coming our way.
With some of the good stuff held back all the time to whet our appetites.

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

HAPPY CANADA DAY EVERYBODY!!!

Cheers

 

[photonrider]

Hey Baron! Happy Canada Day!

Enjoyed the fireworks?
__________________________


Is there a difference in the Online service? I went in and tried it out a little bit but couldn't see anything different yet - maybe as time goes by we'll hear of stability fixes, connection issues and so on.
Meanwhile . . . the Seasonals have still not arrived . . . so . . . the only thing I can do is quote Kaz: 'Soon.'

Looks like an exciting round of events - and going to be a lot of fun engineering some challenges using these.
We had a break from the pressure for awhile, and also had to mull over all this stats we're getting from our tests.
Plus, there may be some new wrinkles to the game to uncover as we go along, all we have to do is dig.

Toscana. Nice.


H.

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

Yep, the fireworks are always a hit for the nation's birthday... Hope you enjoyed them and the day as well!

As for the maintenance... not really sure tbh. I did find a small bit of improvement for the online Quick Matches when I actually got in, but entry is still hit and miss. Time will tell on COTW Tuesdays to see if it helped out any.

The new A-spec seasonal races have arrived, and the main surprise was the Expert level... I took my Lister Storm there (English car for an English track thinking) and got smoked by over 30 seconds by the lead rabbit in the FXX! That's with getting into second by early lap 3. That race will be a challenge to find a racecar that doesn't blow the competition out of the water and gives a bit of excitement at the same time.

But hey, 3 more cars for the garage, even though they're all repeats for me. Actually had to put some into the Stockyard as I've recently went over the 500 car limit. Not fond of that idea, but it's still better than GT2's limit of 100.

Cheers