GT6 News Discussion

[Tenacious D]

I hope modelling efficiency will improve come Gen IV of GT.

While I do too, you can only build a virtual car so fast. And that depends a lot on what your model is made to do.

With GT7, if PD are going to try and make a full on damage build, that means the interior car anatomy must be modeled to some extent. If they model the interior properly to take into account Weight Reduction and Race Mod, then they must model the interior changes, such as parts removed and installation of interior tube bracing. If the Livery Editor rears its lovely head, windows must be tweaked to allow graphics such as racing banners, car numbers and possibly driver's names, and the body surface must properly accept vinyl shapes, decals and text.

SONY could encourage Kaz to add more modeling staff, or he might do it himself as he presents operating and expense budgets to SONY CE. As with all things PD, we'll have to wait and see.

Yeah except six man months divided up amongst a team of people takes considerably less time than six man months divided by one person. Math FTW.

So after a given amount of time, you have the same number of cars modeled, whether by committee or one person. Yeah, math.

And along with this, I assume that you assume that PD are going to dump everything they model into GT6. This won't happen. A GT7 with the same content as the latest revision of GT6 isn't going to have the same pizzazz as a GT7 with some all new content. And as I mentioned above, GT7 cars will likely be more complex than GT6 models, and hamper game performance.

Besides, I really doubt anything you've mentioned hasn't occurred to Kaz years ago.

 

[ironman44321]

Yeah except six man months divided up amongst a team of people takes considerably less time than six man months divided by one person. Math FTW.

Consistency can be provided with a team of people working on cars. What you're saying is that if person A works on one car, and person B helps, then the quality will go down and the consistency will be ruined. Using that logic then any car person B works on will be horribly disfigured considering as soon as he helps with person A's car things stop adding up correctly.

Hell they don't even need to outsource, but at least use a team to model a car. What next, they're hiring cats to produce tracks? (But it can't be a litter of kittens, cause that'd bring the quality down.)

I think what he's saying is that if you have 50 people dedicated to making cars, and it takes 6 man months to make a car than it doesn't matter if you have 50 cars being made by one person each or teams of 5 making 10 cars. You end up with the same number of cars over the same period of time either way.

1 person = 1 car every 6 months

5 person group = 5 cars every 6 months

50 people = 100 cars a year

10 groups of 5 = 100 cars a year

 

[Lawndart]

Why don't we take nine women and make a baby in one month? Hmm, the math is logical...

For this argument to continue with any semblance of relevance we would need to define what a "car" is... For instance there could just be on guy building all the wheels, or base frames, etc.

Either way, it didn't take 6 man months to build a highly detailed car, especially if you have the manufacturer cad art... And when ever the term 'man month' is used it always implies more than one person. Perhaps to get it all approved and put it in the game...

But that statement was made a long time ago and was clearly a marketing point regarding quality more than a ridged development pipeline.

Of course I can't prove that and PD could still be using D-paint from the 90's but I know a thing or 2 about building digital cars...

 

[Tenacious D]

I amended my above post to reflect what I think Crispy's grouch is aimed at. We'll definitely be getting some DLC culled from GT7 work, just as we did in GT5. But it's not going to be all that much. I don't recall how many cars we got in GT5 DLC, but I remember we got Spa and Motegi race tracks. And in GT6, we got some 100-plus Premium cars, and Some very sweet new tracks, Brands Hatch, Ascari and Bathurst, and only had a hint about Bathurst a year or so ago. It didn't show up in GT5 as much as we hoped it would.

We'll be getting new cars and tracks in GT6. Just don't expect them to come pouring down a virtual slide into your PS3 every few weeks.

 

[Soundtrack]

Of course I can't prove that and PD could still be using D-paint from the 90's but I know a thing or 2 about building digital cars...

Mario Andretti’s First Love Reunion capsule seemed to suggest the updated workflows helped speed up the process...

 

[solidboss07]

People are still fighting? I grew up and went back to GT6.

Imagine how I felt. I watched John Wayne in Cahill US Marshall. And then stumbled across the hand bags at 12 noon on the thread.

Only joking, no offence meant to any of the 'duelists'.

John Wayne. Still love those movies.

 

[lancia delta hf]

Couldn't give us a general idea, could you?

At the website:

Google Translate said
At today's Taipei Game Show 2014, GT racing series in the father producer Kazunori Yamauchi said, "GT racing 7" Planning has been put on the agenda, after preparatory work will choose an appropriate time officially published.

Wait, So if it isnt up to scratch people cant use the "but its not a racing sim its the real driving sim" excuse?

 

[Awong124]

Why are all those rigs equipped with G27s and not T500RSs?

 

[wowbaggerBR]

While I do too, you can only build a virtual car so fast. And that depends a lot on what your model is made to do.

With GT7, if PD are going to try and make a full on damage build, that means the interior car anatomy must be modeled to some extent.

Who said so?

 

[Lawndart]

Why are all those rigs equipped with G27s and not T500RSs?

Cheaper, and thrustmaster is a tight ass French company... Owned by Ubisoft actually... By way of the Gimo corporation.

 

[Lawndart]

Crap, red flag at Daytona... Time run it in GT 6 and pretend... As they didn't seem to think a 24min of Daytona was worth an event... oh sorry, I couldn't resist...

I'm just pist crapcast doesn't carry carry Fox 2... Oh boy, I just flew off topic... Nothing to see here...

 

[Tenacious D]

While I do too, you can only build a virtual car so fast. And that depends a lot on what your model is made to do.

With GT7, if PD are going to try and make a full on damage build, that means the interior car anatomy must be modeled to some extent.

Who said so?

I said "if." It was speculation, discussing how efficient it could be to make cars for GT7. I have no idea, but I bet with the little bit of work PD did on damage in GT6, with all that CPU power and ram available in PS4, they're going to be more ambitious for GT7. They only have half the gamer fanbase and all the gaming journalists asking when a good damage implementation will be in Gran Turismo.

 

[IneedSchool]

Imagine how I felt. I watched John Wayne in Cahill US Marshall. And then stumbled across the hand bags at 12 noon on the thread.

Only joking, no offence meant to any of the 'duelists'.

John Wayne. Still love those movies.

Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?

 

[pakiman740]

I'm seeing all this talk about february updates and this and that about February...but what about the end of January update ? Why is there no word about this ? or is it pushed to February ?

there's actually supposed to be two large ones but it's the end of the month almost we haven't even got one of them I really want to give up on this game but I love it so much that I really can't this is the only game that I would take all this shortcomings from any other game of Madden doing this out of a job as polyphony hi and I would never touch that game For 5 years with a ten foot broom

 

[eSZee]

Let's not confuse the issue by turning a statement about dev process into the premium vs standards argument... Totally different topics.

We aren't.

I said

...imply GT premiums are consistent...

 

[Siren]

there's actually supposed to be two large ones but it's the end of the month almost we haven't even got one of them I really want to give up on this game but I love it so much that I really can't this is the only game that I would take all this shortcomings from any other game of Madden doing this out of a job as polyphony hi and I would never touch that can go in for 5 years with a ten foot broom

They better come good with the updates, because their previous ones was an ehhh for me, though I loved the new cars I still didn't feel satisfied. I'm hoping they'll be more than at least 500mb

 

[Flinx]

And you need to face facts. In the polls done here, the people who don't like the Standard cars are in the minority, at around 30%, and the people who actually like them are close to 40%. We like owning and driving these cars. You don't even have to look at them. Besides, there are about 400 Premium cars now as Sparkytooth says, so you have more than enough to play with, if you think F5's 150 some odd car list is so awesome.

Would you please use I rather than we while you express your personal opinion?
I do not like owning any standard car and finally i can finish the career without having to buy one.
As you pointed out there are some 400 premuims in the game, but this does not help me if some of my favorite cars from the past GT's are still standard.
Supra, FTO, GTO, Mirage to name only a few of the nicer and interesting street cars are not eligible as premiums but they do raise the count.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

And you need to face facts. In the polls done here, the people who don't like the Standard cars are in the minority, at around 30%, and the people who actually like them are close to 40%. We like owning and driving these cars. You don't even have to look at them. Besides, there are about 400 Premium cars now as Sparkytooth says, so you have more than enough to play with, if you think F5's 150 some odd car list is so awesome.

I absolutely hate all the standards. I always make sure to never use one. For me, driving one of those is the same as driving along in a souless white box. But, ok, this is me.

About your statistics... well, you need to face the fact that GTPlanet is a fan biased forum. These polls only shows that people here care about GT's legacy, despite the utter ugliness of all the standards in the game.

Ask about standards to a broader audience, then your argument will stand.

 

[sparkytooth]

For GT Gen III, I have no problems with the standard cars. But for the PS4 gen, if they stay the way they are it would most certainly bog down the entire game's quality even more.

For GT7, if released in 2015 they might add another hundred or so machines, alongside whatever we are getting with GT6 as PD adds in cars. I predict a full premium count of atleast 600 machines, which to me is enough cars.

 

[Griffith500]

We aren't.

I said

But that seems to happen whether by committee or by individuals, so it's still irrelevant.

The system used to achieve an end is impossible to evaluate without access to that system. All you have is the end, which is touched by so many things that any individual divorced from the process couldn't possibly point the finger at "shokunin" as the sole reason they are unhappy with said end. For sheer speed, maybe committee wins (not a given, by any means) but for quality, there is no substitute for focus, provided the skills are there (and there are QA procedures with Sony and modeling leads at PD anyway).

Quality or quantity? Quantity is better because committee design is better, for some reason. But quality is better because the Standards are a health hazard. I can see this boiling down to an "efficiency" debate again. I wonder if anyone will actually delineate the system and its inputs and outputs this time...

Quality is always variable. There is always "tolerance". Or lack thereof.

 

[jackargent]

I absolutely hate all the standards. I always make sure to never use one. For me, driving one of those is the same as driving along in a souless white box. But, ok, this is me.

About your statistics... well, you need to face the fact that GTPlanet is a fan biased forum. These polls only shows that people here care about GT's legacy, despite the utter ugliness of all the standards in the game.

Ask about standards to a broader audience, then your argument will stand.

there are enough premium cars in the game so you never need to drive a standard so presumably you are happy. many of the cars I love in the game are standards & i'd rather have them as standards than not at all. so I'm happy. Hey, we're both happy! how good is that?

 

[shirakawaa]

I'm almost shocked at this news that one person models one car. This sounds like a pointlessly inefficient process.
Let's get terms straight -- multiple persons working on a car model would not be working on a "committee", but in a team. Now that does sound much better, doesn't it?
Small teams almost always inherently work more efficiently than one person doing everything; you can't just apply math like that (1 person = 6 months, 2 persons = 3 months, etc) as people are not robots.

At the very least I would have expected 3-4 people at a time working on a car at the same time (something like: exteriors, interiors, detachables [wheels, badges, appendages, etc], programming/scripting/testing).

 

[jackargent]

I'm almost shocked at this news that one person models one car. This sounds like a pointlessly inefficient process.
Let's get terms straight -- multiple persons working on a car model would not be working on a "committee", but in a team. Now that does sound much better, doesn't it?
Small teams almost always inherently work more efficiently than one person doing everything; you can't just apply math like that (1 person = 6 months, 2 persons = 3 months, etc) as people are not robots.

At the very least I would have expected 3-4 people at a time working on a car at the same time (something like: exteriors, interiors, detachables [wheels, badges, appendages, etc], programming/scripting/testing).

If you are right (& I think that is debatable) do you think it would make an enormous difference? more than 2-3% more efficient? otherwise you are not talking about many more cars as a result.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

There are "Approx. 110" employees at Polyphony Digital. But obviously, not all of them work on the car modelling, so let's check the GT6 End Credits. At 0:21, you can see there are 7 car modeling directors. At 0:43, you can see there are 12 car modeling chiefs. At 0:46, you can see there are 18 car modeling...people.... At 0:48, you can see there are 19 car modeling assistants. Let's just pretend they all model cars. So that's 56 people who model cars. Let's say one premium car takes 6 months (half a year) to completely model, then in one year, they should be able to finish 112 cars. That's not that bad in my opinion.

 

[shirakawaa]

If you are right (& I think that is debatable) do you think it would make an enormous difference? more than 2-3% more efficient? otherwise you are not talking about many more cars as a result.

If more people worked in shifts on a given car, then I could say it could get at least 50% more efficient, modeling time-wise, just because of this.

You can expect one person to have a typical 8 hour workday, but with two or more this could become 12-16 hours. I'm not referring to man-hours, but working day usage.

 

[lGNAl]

Are we only getting VGT and concept cars as DLC in GT6 ? .. no real cars ?

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Are we only getting VGT and concept cars as DLC in GT6 ? .. no real cars ?

We just got a M4 and Mario Andretti's Hudson. Do they not count?

 

[HarVee]

Are we only getting VGT and concept cars as DLC in GT6 ? .. no real cars ?

If by "real" you mean an actual production model, then the BMW M4 Coupe is a "real" car.

 

[J-KiLLA24]

Are we only getting VGT and concept cars as DLC in GT6 ? .. no real cars ?

No. I think the M4 and Mario Andetti's car would be considered 'real' cars, wouldn't you?

Edit: Damn I got tree'd harrd.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

there are enough premium cars in the game so you never need to drive a standard so presumably you are happy. many of the cars I love in the game are standards & i'd rather have them as standards than not at all. so I'm happy. Hey, we're both happy! how good is that?

If everybody is happy, is awesome.