GT6 Sales Discussion
- Thread starter fassbendersbum
- 1,905 comments
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- 8,722
All that really matters is whether the proportion of those logging on "actually play" the game is the same for GT6 as it was for GT5. Then the figures can be used for comparison.
I mean, absolute figures mean nothing to us anyway.
- 1,240
- Italy
Finale post in this "series"
GT6 demo had 1mln downloads and the number of participants of GTA round one was 565k.
Aston Martin VGT (let's not forget about the size of the patch containing it!) was supposedly downloaded 2.5 mln times yet after 7 days we had only 144k entries.
For the reference BMW VGT seas. had 146k entries after only 5 days - more than the Aston with few 100k lower sales of GT6.
VGT seas. and GTA in GT6 share one thing in common - high reward and high number of entries.
GTA R. 1 in GT6 had 224k entries after 14 days - that's from an active player base larger than current one.
If 1mln demo downloads resulted in 565k entries on GTA R.1 why 2.5mln resulted in less than a half ?
Because when GTA was made available in GT6 the active player base was smaller than the one of GT6 demo which had 1mln downloads.
Regular seasonals shortly after launch of GT6 had around 500k entries for 2mln sales. Considering that GTA in GT6 had nearly 2x the amount of entries than a regular seasonal the numbers of the demo are not an anomaly and can be used to calculate the amount of downloads of patch that included the Aston.
With a hefty margin of error but more than good enough to have serious doubts about the "2.5 mln downloads" - no matter what they meant by that.
When GTA R.1 on GT6 was held it had around 2x entries than a regular seasonal (100k).
BMW VGT seasonal was available when GTA was launched and they both had very similar amount of entries after 14 days - 224k for GTA and 215k for BMW.
1mln active "fresh" players = 565k entries on GTA and (if there would be by then) 500k entries on a VGT seas.
GT6 GTA R.1 had 224k entries after 14 days and let's round it up to 250k total. That's from 2.3mln sales back then but already a much lower active player base than those of the demo.
BMW VGT seas. reached 215k entries total. Aston maybe reached 200k.
So 1mln downloaded the game = 556k GTA entries,
Yet 2.5 mln downloaded the patch = 200k entries when as we saw with BMW and GTA R.1 both types of events share similar amount of entries.
Right...
In reality the numbers are like that:
500-600k downloaded the patch = 200k entries on the seasonal. 1mln is being super-mega-hyper-generous and 2.5mln is just pure BS.
GT6 demo had 1mln downloads and the number of participants of GTA round one was 565k.
Aston Martin VGT (let's not forget about the size of the patch containing it!) was supposedly downloaded 2.5 mln times yet after 7 days we had only 144k entries.
For the reference BMW VGT seas. had 146k entries after only 5 days - more than the Aston with few 100k lower sales of GT6.
VGT seas. and GTA in GT6 share one thing in common - high reward and high number of entries.
GTA R. 1 in GT6 had 224k entries after 14 days - that's from an active player base larger than current one.
If 1mln demo downloads resulted in 565k entries on GTA R.1 why 2.5mln resulted in less than a half ?
Because when GTA was made available in GT6 the active player base was smaller than the one of GT6 demo which had 1mln downloads.
Regular seasonals shortly after launch of GT6 had around 500k entries for 2mln sales. Considering that GTA in GT6 had nearly 2x the amount of entries than a regular seasonal the numbers of the demo are not an anomaly and can be used to calculate the amount of downloads of patch that included the Aston.
With a hefty margin of error but more than good enough to have serious doubts about the "2.5 mln downloads" - no matter what they meant by that.
When GTA R.1 on GT6 was held it had around 2x entries than a regular seasonal (100k).
BMW VGT seasonal was available when GTA was launched and they both had very similar amount of entries after 14 days - 224k for GTA and 215k for BMW.
1mln active "fresh" players = 565k entries on GTA and (if there would be by then) 500k entries on a VGT seas.
GT6 GTA R.1 had 224k entries after 14 days and let's round it up to 250k total. That's from 2.3mln sales back then but already a much lower active player base than those of the demo.
BMW VGT seas. reached 215k entries total. Aston maybe reached 200k.
So 1mln downloaded the game = 556k GTA entries,
Yet 2.5 mln downloaded the patch = 200k entries when as we saw with BMW and GTA R.1 both types of events share similar amount of entries.
Right...
In reality the numbers are like that:
500-600k downloaded the patch = 200k entries on the seasonal. 1mln is being super-mega-hyper-generous and 2.5mln is just pure BS.
- 2,993
- Brisbane
- jimipitbull
@TurismoBad You have been asked several times where you are pulling these numbers from.
Unless you can provide proof of that information, I believe those numbers are deliberately false, which is against the AUP.
Unless you can provide proof of that information, I believe those numbers are deliberately false, which is against the AUP.
- 6,318
- West Virginia
- HBR-Roadhog
- HBR Roadhog
I see several posts talking about how many people ran the VGT lap but I do not recall ever seeing a total number on any of the leader boards in GT6. Also they generally only allow times to be posted during the first 2 weeks that the event is live.
I know a few people who downloaded the update and did not run the lap for the VGT, a few who ran it but after the deadline to post a time and a few others who have not downloaded it yet. Personally I downloaded it and ran the lap right away to get the car.
I see no reason to think they are making it up that 2.5 million people downloaded the update/car
I know a few people who downloaded the update and did not run the lap for the VGT, a few who ran it but after the deadline to post a time and a few others who have not downloaded it yet. Personally I downloaded it and ran the lap right away to get the car.
I see no reason to think they are making it up that 2.5 million people downloaded the update/car
- 9
- Netherlands
- tornadoscrew
My take on the aston martin update for 2.5 million people it's nice for the numbers,higher than forza 5 but lower than gt5 sales which means for pd as a huge fan They got there work cut out for them. The competition isn't sitting still and idle,project cars on ps4 is looking amazing,driveclub shows potential looking amazing also soundwise, in short they better step up their game in gt7 for the ps4 and perhaps redeem themselves with a good sound patch on Gt6, but that might be wishfull thinking, what they plan next is going on ps4 pretty sure that resources have shifted at pd from the ps3 bar the gt6 updates which should come, to the ps4 for gt7.
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Frankly it is entirely possible that some active users do not enter the seasonals. I bought GT6 in dec 13 then left it at the shelf for months till july 14 or so. Then played a bit now and then, once a week or fortnight. Hardly join any seasonal TT this whole time as i am more keen on A spec. Now still languishing at IA license playing only events i am interested in. Not interested in most TT and may do 2-3 laps before quitting if i join at all.. used to gold every TT in GT5 but lost the interest in chasing own ghost. GT6 is still great value and fun despite that.
So instead of judging sales by the TT participants, i guess there is significant number of passive players.
So instead of judging sales by the TT participants, i guess there is significant number of passive players.
- 1,055
Probably from the leaderboards. Drive as slow as possible and you see how many have played, if the leaderboards are right.
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
GT5 actual sales (+10M) are distributed sales acumulated during many years. Considering the GT6's 2.5M downloads as individual sales, the real number of distributed sales sold to the retailers and throught digital downloads will be much bigger than the active consoles conected to the internet downloading updates in a short period of time. So even guessing an equivalent distributed total based in the 2.5M downloads it should be compared with the GT5 sales sold in the same first months.
No one expects that GT6 tops the GT5 sales, as never happened before with the second title in the same console, but the model of bussiness is changing and there are still many years of sales (and probably DLC) pending. GT6 have needed a very short development time so is not a game that would need to have super impressive sales to be a success (not even the previous titles would need a massive 10M to be a success), and Sony knows this, so the lack of expenses in publicity compared with GT5. GT7 will be another story.
- 40,822
So less than half, presumably. Even if we were to ballpark that there is a full third of copies sold which haven't been continuously updated to the Aston update and/or haven't been sold through yet.
Would it go as far as a lawsuit? Probably not.
Would the creative partners that have undoubtedly spent decent money working with Sony for Vision GT be rather upset if Sony was straight lying to them about how many people actually had access to the cars they talk about in their own press releases and events? Well... yeah.
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- 293
@Tornado Again, how would the partners know the real number? Unless someone sues PD and asks for proofs, PD can say whatever they want.
AND it's more a PR partnership than anything else. That means that, true or false, Aston Martin also wants everyone to believe their car was very successful. this kind of communication is a win-win for PD and Aston.
Plus, Aston did not do that so GT players can try their car (as they are prototypes...noone could buy it anyway...unlike Nissan GTR or Imprezas, etc...): this is an original way of communicating, sharing Aston and PD reputation, speaking at different audiences... the target is not just GT players imho.
AND it's more a PR partnership than anything else. That means that, true or false, Aston Martin also wants everyone to believe their car was very successful. this kind of communication is a win-win for PD and Aston.
Plus, Aston did not do that so GT players can try their car (as they are prototypes...noone could buy it anyway...unlike Nissan GTR or Imprezas, etc...): this is an original way of communicating, sharing Aston and PD reputation, speaking at different audiences... the target is not just GT players imho.
- 40,822
First you have to provide some sort of impartial basis that PD/Sony/Aston/Whoever is lying about the number. What do they even have to gain by fabricating a number that, had this been GT5, would likely have been twice as large? If they wanted to stretch the truth to the breaking point, why not count potential downloads, meaning every disc printed to date added to total digital sales? Why use such a small number? Then you can explain how they can get away with doing so. TurismoBad has been attempting (using very fuzzy logic, admittedly) to explain why the number in the video is exaggerated vs GT6's actual consumer interest.
Simply stating "the numbers can't be taken as true because PD could probably lie without getting caught" barely even counts as circular reasoning, really.
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- 2,993
- Brisbane
- jimipitbull
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
So, within the 2.5M downloads (sales) context, you asume that Sony only have distributed these 2.5M of copies around the world and all them have sold? that would mean that you can't find a single physical copy of GT6 to purchase in the planet and that the 100% of GT6 players have logued in the last month.
Does not make sense. If the numbers are correct the current total distributed sales of GT6 would be much higher than 2.5M just by the stock available.
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- 8,722
This sub-tangent is a distraction; it's not what Sony were claiming 2.5 million people engaged with, because they can't measure precisely how many people obtained that car in the game, by all methods.
What they can measure precisely is how many people downloaded the update, or how many people retrieved the seasonal event, how many submitted a valid time in that event, or how many people bought the DP-100 whilst logged in etc.
Since the only one of those that isn't an incomplete representation of what it is supposed to measure is the update download figure, that's the one they chose to use (it's also, probably, the largest figure...).
Since you need to download the update to continue playing ("online" - log-in bonus, seasonals etc.), it is likely to be the best measure of all players using the game at that time; yes, it's probably inflated in that many people knew there was an update, but not everyone pays close attention like "we" do. Then there are those playing the game offline, un-updated, who are not represented at all.
The numbers submitting times to seasonals is simply not a reliable direct measure of total sales, except, possibly, by comparison to earlier figures.
So, since Sony were more keen to share sales of GT5, the question is whether the proportion of those players represented by different means (i.e. log-ins, seasonal contributions etc.) is likely to be the same for GT6 as it was for GT5. Then tentative comparisons can be made.
- 895
- Limbabwe
- DDDsprayshop
Right and wrong.When i downloaded the update, i just needed a lap without penalties and got the car.
No need for bronze/silver or gold.
I believe you could only get the BMW M4 or the Toyota FT-1 with bronze or better.
The VGT's you could get if you completed the track without penalties.
If you're too late, and the season events is gone, yes you need to buy it.1 million credits is the lowest price for a few VGT's
This is debateable.
When do you call an active user an active user?
Yes, there are people that only start game, get login bonus and shut down.Waiting for a season event that pays big?
But, because they start up the game, they are active, just not active with driving.
So jimipitbull has a point there.
Going back to that Bloomberg clip.
That is just marketing.
Yes they tell the truth, but not the whole truth, people downloaded for the VGT cars, but also hoping for more features they are waiting for.( track editor, B-spec etc. etc.)
Then i also see this in the clip, proofe that they tell the truth, but not the whole truth.
70 million units of Gran Turismo sold, but that is GT1/2/3/4/5/6.
Marketing, Just like selling Harddrives.
1TB harddrive, is 1.000.000.000.000 bytes, manufactor divides mathemathic by 1000.
While the operating software divides my 1024, and 1024 etc. results in
=976562500 Kb
=953674 Mb
=931 Gb
=0,909 Tb
The 2.5 million number is a result of login and downloads.
But i had troubles with downloading that special update, it stopt at 97%.Is dat attempt also added?
I had to shut down my PS3, and start again with UTP cable attached for my second attempt.
How many attempts are added? Both or only my succesfull download?
The real sales number, should be real, Disk and digital version numbers are clear numbers.
But that 2.5million? Is that real? I don't know.
I'm one of those real active users.
I play every day, some times 5 minutes or 10 and sometimes 1 hour, i have all VGT's in two accounts and started a third account for fun.
I don't love the game, but i like it. I believe i'm going to love it when all promised features are finally added.
GT5 is still on sale.
I think we will see what GT6 sales does in a couple of years.
- 3,990
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
Just as a reference, by around 1 year into Forza 4 (which had over 4 million sales according to VGChartz) you wouldn't find more than 10-15,000 entries into a monthly rivals time trial.
I'm willing to bet Forza 5 is already down to similar numbers, that of the owner base (supposedly 1.5 million sales according to VGChartz) most don't bother with online, let alone monthly online challenges.
You can read whatever you like into online participation, doesn't make you right
I'm willing to bet Forza 5 is already down to similar numbers, that of the owner base (supposedly 1.5 million sales according to VGChartz) most don't bother with online, let alone monthly online challenges.
You can read whatever you like into online participation, doesn't make you right
- 895
- Limbabwe
- DDDsprayshop
Who are you reffering to? All of us GT6 users?Just as a reference, by around 1 year into Forza 4 (which had over 4 million sales according to VGChartz) you wouldn't find more than 10-15,000 entries into a monthly rivals time trial.
I'm willing to bet Forza 5 is already down to similar numbers, that of the owner base (supposedly 1.5 million sales according to VGChartz) most don't bother with online, let alone monthly online challenges.
You can read whatever you like into online participation, doesn't make you right
But you have a point there.
back to bloomberg.
I just looked here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Turismo_(series)
and see that sales number is lower then the download number from Bloomberg
Then i go to http://www.vgchartz.com/game/72181/gran-turismo-6/
And that number also is lower then 2.5million.
At VGCHARTZ the number is 2.44million, rounding it should result in 2.4million, 2.45 would result into 2.5million.
Now what? Still marketing is my guess.
edit, sales chart does not mean a lot right now.
Selling GT6 with the new PS4, has a thing to do with it.
Also, it is the first sale of GT6.
The current sales number for GT5 is spread over more years.( i was wrong once, i don't make that mistake again)
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- 9,232
- Solid Gone
- MeanElf
I would advise against quoting Wikipedia as a valid or correct source - anyone can start a page there. For example, Wikipedia used to reckon that my brother was born in the USA - took us quite a while to get that changed. VG Chartz likewise isn't that trustworthy.
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Please don't use vgchartz as a source, they are not reliable or trustworthy at all.
- 895
- Limbabwe
- DDDsprayshop
Yeah, about the Wiki pages, i expected that, did not know about VG chartz.
But how or were is a reliable source for the real sales? No i mean, is there a public source for the real sales?
- 17,220
- United Kingdom
What is real sales anyway...
Discs pressed? Downloads? Discs ordered by wholesalers/retailers? copies sold by retailers? unique PSN logins? People that bought it new, flipped it 2 weeks later and eBayed it someone that's cherished it ever since?
Personally I don't think GT6 unit sales as a metric on it's own tells us a great deal.
- 895
- Limbabwe
- DDDsprayshop
The digital purchase from PSN store a real numbers.Every purchase is a sale.Not every download.
The disks that are shipped to stores is tricky.You need the numbers from the stores itself.
But the download number from Bloomberg, how is that calculated? I mean, i had to start my download a second time, My first one got a error, but did bloomberg/psn/PD counted them both, or just my succesfull one?
Some people had succesfull downloads, but got errors when GT6 tried to install into gamedata, and had to erase gamedata and download all of it again.
So i have to repeat my last line from my first post here.
i think we have to wait a couple of years ( or 5)to see what GT6 sales do.
- 17,220
- United Kingdom
Yeah, I'm not sure how this is handled these days. Many moons ago, I sold CD's. For charting purposes our numbers were logged at the point we ordered them from the distributor.. which is fine except the stock turnaround was anything between hours and years, so it wasn't a true reflection of what people were buying. Though we were only an independent, I don't know how chains handle it.
- 9,232
- Solid Gone
- MeanElf
Unfortunately, there isn't as far as I'm aware. Short of industrial espionage at all of the sales points we only really have VG Chartz (and I'll be damned if I trust a company that spells charts like that
) It's all down to whenever Sony or people like Aston Martin release figures that we get another glimpse.As those initiatives are handled by the corporate sales department though, the root of the figures might well be difficult to get to the bottom of. I mean, they aren't lying, but sales figures, just like statistics can be made to say pretty much anything.
The record industry, as I'm sure you know, is a corrupted as can be. The whole situation can be epitomised by your own observation.
Very likely and probably the best idea.
In the end though, as IGNAI already said on this thread - what does it matter? If you like the game, play it and have fun.
- 895
- Limbabwe
- DDDsprayshop
- 1,055
I've tried "driving slow" myself and it didn't look like there's a cap or something similar.
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