GT7 Daily Race Discussion

[Talon16]

This is why God invented computer controlled automatic transmissions!

I’ve always wondered how realistic it is to use the gearbox to downshift for rotation? I assume you would not do that in modern race cars with paddle shifters?

Fwiw, I wish the h-pattern shifter was more realistic in GT. Like if you could actually stall it! Or you had to rev match on the downshifts! Bring on heel and toe!

IMO, it isn't... at all. Flappy paddle cars automatically rev match and people using h-patters should be doing the heel/toe if they care at all about their drivetrain. I've always had this complaint about GT7. Going 90mph around a turn and going wide? Just downshift into 1st! Of course, flappy paddle cars won't let you downshift the engine passed its limit. Try to, and it'll just not do it.

I think the h-pattern is pretty good in GT. You can stall a car out (at least I've done it messing around), you can also miss shfits and although you don't HAVE to rev match on downshifts, you definitely can. Hit the clutch, get that heel over to the the gas and blip it before releasing the clutch. I will say it is very forgiving, but it's not too bad IMO. You can adjust the clutch pedal settings in the game, so maybe try that to make it more realistic for you if you haven't already.

A video of me driving the ZR1 around N24. I love the engine tone (which is why I took the video honestly (headers, cams, racing exhaust)), but you can definitely tell I am heel/toeing the downshifts. There's even a spot ~6:15 in where I missed a downshift and the car just stays in N until I put the clutch back in and the car back in gear. Not too bad of a setup, IMO.

 

[newmedia_dev]

A lot of modern sports cars auto blip for you now I know the 370z and the M140i do this with manual transmissions for example.

 

[330_D]

My 23 GTI DSG blips the throttle on downshift with the paddles. I've only driven manual cars before this and while it took some getting used to, it's actually really really nice. Sorry for the off topic (kinda) post.

 

[Talon16]

A lot of modern sports cars auto blip for you now I know the 370z and the M140i do this with manual transmissions for example.

This is true... and also lame.

 

[mellofello9]

Well yes, that definitly is the case.
I was under the impression players are doing it differently in GT, downshifting BEFORE you unbalance the car simply to be in the lower gear. Maybe that is what I am doing wrong.

Anyway, without any experience on this topic I am sure you wouldnt do it in real life this way strictly to avoid unsettling the car this way, when other methods provide much more control.

Controller pilots have a unique challenge to deal with since steering lock seems to be determined by speed/gear. For me, the first chicane at Monza is damn near impossible in 2nd on a controller (in the Bug', fwiw). Could I be doing it wrong? Sure...according to my wife that happens a LOT. But, I'm pretty sure this is a byproduct of the 'smoothing' of inputs. My fellow controller cronies could be bangin' gears for for more steering lock. 👍

 

[Nakano219]

I just noticed, the GT Twitter actually promoted this week's daily C, which I can't remember ever happening before:



Very off-meta car choice but hey, they're getting there.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Controller pilots have a unique challenge to deal with since steering lock seems to be determined by speed/gear. For me, the first chicane at Monza is damn near impossible in 2nd on a controller (in the Bug', fwiw). Could I be doing it wrong? Sure...according to my wife that happens a LOT. But, I'm pretty sure this is a byproduct of the 'smoothing' of inputs. My fellow controller cronies could be bangin' gears for for more steering lock. 👍

For me when I use a controller it's hard at that chicane as I'm trying to carry to much speed in to it rather than compromise my entry for a better exit....talking about the racing technique not your wife

 

[Tuono_GT]

What is up with Race C today? Absolutely no grip, no control and I certainly wasn't the only one having trouble.

Anyone else notice this or was it an isolated race?

 

[newmedia_dev]

What is up with Race C today? Absolutely no grip, no control and I certainly wasn't the only one having trouble.

Anyone else notice this or was it an isolated race?

Have only done QT on C today and with the porsche which is a sliding machine but it does feel a little more slippery than earlier in the week.

 

[mellofello9]

Have only done QT on C today and with the porsche which is a sliding machine but it does feel a little more slippery than earlier in the week.

Haven't been out yet...is the track cold today?

 

[NAXEHT]

What is up with Race C today? Absolutely no grip, no control and I certainly wasn't the only one having trouble.

Anyone else notice this or was it an isolated race?

Video?

 

[TheNormsk]

I seem to be missing out on the dailies this week. Too much work Monday through Tuesday and last night I kind of got into a project.

This thing is a tank! Can't wait to get it finished. So much still to assemble....

Perhaps I'll get it all wrapped up to try some C towards the end of the week.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I've done 300 miles of daily B and C QT today and have the following observations (purely my opinion and ability)

For daily B I have no idea how the BRZ is so fast, there is something about that car that just doesn't gel with me.

I tried all the metas and some outliers (the 4C was actually good, not as fast as my 911 QT but probably has race pace)

For daily C I did countless laps in the 911 and the XJ and they both go well, I'd even say if you could use the 911 sliding it's probably the fastest car because of its speed and agility it's just freaking knife edge all the time.

The XJ is fine not really anything special, feels like the supra to me with a tad more understeer.

I really enjoyed driving the SLR and it is quick but again really hard to extract a time from. I wanted this one to be the quiet sleeper but I just couldn't make it work.

The NSX is similar to the Porsche (naturally as they bench marked each other) so it's fast like the Porsche but always on the snap oversteer or surprise understeer limit.

If you want a drivers car, the Porsche hands down. It's forgiving but rewarding. If you want to be the fastest then the M3 or LFA are the way to go but even then you have to work with their chassis's to get optimum times.

Edit:

I think PD did a good job overall with the balance and dialled out the majority of the oversteer these cars have.

At the cost of understeer but on balance that's more accessible and easier to actually drive.

I'd be very very interested to see Sophy's times in all of these cars if I'm honest as I think they all are competitive over a full lap it's just some feel better dynamically and give you confidence over the the others.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

This thing is a tank! Can't wait to get it finished. So much still to assemble....

My rig took me literally days to assemble. Part of that was my bad back making it difficult for me to be a contortionist. The other part was not figuring out how to install the stupid little nut things that go in the slots until I was just about done.

For daily B I have no idea how the BRZ is so fast, there is something about that car that just doesn't gel with me.

Me neither.

Have you tried the R.S.01? For me, it works great. But I realize everyone's driving style is different.

 

[newmedia_dev]

My rig took me literally days to assemble. Part of that was my bad back making it difficult for me to be a contortionist. The other part was not figuring out how to install the stupid little nut things that go in the slots until I was just about done.

Me neither.

Have you tried the R.S.01? For me, it works great. But I realize everyone's driving style is different.

I haven't tried it, but I will now. What I do know is that the BRZ doesn't feel like a normal car and I can't put my finger on it. Clearly it's the meta but I just can't get those times from it and when I say those times I mean being a second or even 2 back from the top ghosts.

Just not a car for me and I love variety but that car had some characteristics I just don't understand.

Hell I even get the GR1 TT this week in the Bug, I can't do it but it makes sense! This brz ain't for me.

 

[cyirush]

I’m

I agree with you, I think it was just the more variety and slightly better BoP.

I like most people here love the GR3/4 cars but I'd love some more up to date machinery and also things like challenge cup races some support type races like the Clio cup or Porsche cup.

Agree, for a game that’s so dependent on modern GT3 and 4 cars, we really shouldn’t still be racing 458s and C7s and M6s (cool as those cars are). Most games have the 296GT3, the M4GT3 and the C8R.

 

[cyirush]

IMO, it isn't... at all. Flappy paddle cars automatically rev match and people using h-patters should be doing the heel/toe if they care at all about their drivetrain. I've always had this complaint about GT7. Going 90mph around a turn and going wide? Just downshift into 1st! Of course, flappy paddle cars won't let you downshift the engine passed its limit. Try to, and it'll just not do it.

I think the h-pattern is pretty good in GT. You can stall a car out (at least I've done it messing around), you can also miss shfits and although you don't HAVE to rev match on downshifts, you definitely can. Hit the clutch, get that heel over to the the gas and blip it before releasing the clutch. I will say it is very forgiving, but it's not too bad IMO. You can adjust the clutch pedal settings in the game, so maybe try that to make it more realistic for you if you haven't already.

A video of me driving the ZR1 around N24. I love the engine tone (which is why I took the video honestly (headers, cams, racing exhaust)), but you can definitely tell I am heel/toeing the downshifts. There's even a spot ~6:15 in where I missed a downshift and the car just stays in N until I put the clutch back in and the car back in gear. Not too bad of a setup, IMO.

Thanks for the video! Such a fun way to drive, and great practice for real life. Had a friend in my Hemi Challenger w/Tremec 6 speed. He asked if the car had auto rev match to which I humbly replied, ‘no that was me.’ 😜

I thought you couldn’t stall it. Will have to play around some more with it.

If you don’t rev match/heel and toe does it make a difference - that is, do you get braking from the mismatch between wheel and engine speed which upsets the car?

When I started racing old cars in AC you’d get gearbox damage if you didn’t heel and toe! (Cool but not realistic if the cars has synchros in real life).

 

[newmedia_dev]

Thanks for the video! Such a fun way to drive, and great practice for real life. Had a friend in my Hemi Challenger w/Tremec 6 speed. He asked if the car had auto rev match to which I humbly replied, ‘no that was me.’ 😜

I thought you couldn’t stall it. Will have to play around some more with it.

If you don’t rev match/heel and toe does it make a difference - that is, do you get braking from the mismatch between wheel and engine speed which upsets the car?

When I started racing old cars in AC you’d get gearbox damage if you didn’t heel and toe! (Cool but not realistic if the cars has synchros in real life).

Heel and toe has specific uses in actual racing.

With modern gear boxes and slipper clutches it is needed less and less. For rally dipping the clutch to stop the drive has benefits for sliding or making a more acute angle but on the road or track unless you are absolute balls to the wall in most stuff just good braking and lines is enough.

It has downsides which people don't talk about in that it complicates car control so if you get it wrong you end up in no man's land. It's a technique to us but only when you need to find the 1000s of a second or when shifting drive to one axel over the other with angle is really needed.



You'll notice in the video is the pedal control harmonises with the wheel control. Walter works both of them. The wheel getting most of the inputs but the pedals being the controlling factor.

Understanding car control and feel negates any trail braking or clutch or gear selection stuff. It's much more visceral than that.

 

[cyirush]

Heel and toe has specific uses in actual racing.

With modern gear boxes and slipper clutches it is needed less and less. For rally dipping the clutch to stop the drive has benefits for sliding or making a more acute angle but on the road or track unless you are absolute balls to the wall in most stuff just good braking and lines is enough.

It has downsides which people don't talk about in that it complicates car control so if you get it wrong you end up in no man's land. It's a technique to us but only when you need to find the 1000s of a second or when shifting drive to one axel over the other with angle is really needed.



You'll notice in the video is the pedal control harmonises with the wheel control. Walter works both of them. The wheel getting most of the inputs but the pedals being the controlling factor.

Understanding car control and feel negates any trail braking or clutch or gear selection stuff. It's much more visceral than that.

I don’t agree. If you are driving fast in a car with an h-pattern ‘box and you don’t rev match before downshifting you’ll upset the car by locking the rear wheels (how much depends on how high the revs spike on downshift).

My first track day in my old aircooled 911, I downshifted while braking into a corner but didn’t blip the throttle and the rear started fish tailing!

I assume in modern racing this is a non-issue as no one races with h-pattern manuals (or do Nascar’s sequential ‘boxes require a blip?).

Of course other techniques matter too.

That video of the Yellowbird is epic!

PS Sam Harris did a video of driving a 911 (996) GT racer. It was the first one without an h-pattern ‘box, and he said it was so much easier to get the braking right b/c he didn’t have to roll his foot over to the gas to blip the downshift (heel and toe).

 

[newmedia_dev]

I don’t agree. If you are driving fast in a car with an h-pattern ‘box and you don’t rev match before downshifting you’ll upset the car by locking the rear wheels (how much depends on how high the revs spike on downshift).

My first track day in my old aircooled 911, I downshifted while braking into a corner but didn’t blip the throttle and the rear started fish tailing!

I assume in modern racing this is a non-issue as no one races with h-pattern manuals (or do Nascar’s sequential ‘boxes require a blip?).

Of course other techniques matter too.

That video of the Yellowbird is epic!

PS Sam Harris did a video of driving a 911 (996) GT racer. It was the first one without an h-pattern ‘box, and he said it was so much easier to get the braking right b/c he didn’t have to roll his foot over to the gas to blip the downshift (heel and toe).

This is such a fun topic!

As I said heel and toe has its place, in my M3 (e36 and 46) on track they benefitted from it with huge torque straight sixes up front, as it gave the LSD a break, the porches I've had (996.1 and cayman 987.1) didn't like it as much as was the longer gearing in them specifically 1st and second just didn't work with it well and when you are on it in the upper revs at speed it's not something you should do.

My focus ST and M140 did it for you so again not something you need to worry about.

I'm sure at the absolute 1% of people it makes a difference but in reality if you aren't top 100 in GT I'd argue it's more of a fun thing than competitive thing at our levels.

It's so interesting to get others perspectives on this stuff. I know for a fact my trail braking is my limiting factor alongside over steering, this is regardless of transmission input and I can put a car 1100th in the world for this weeks daily C.

I dont think using a shifter or technique In using a shifter is the performance enhancer some think it is.

I do think learning to drive correctly is important and technique is super important. But and I will bang on about this, reading the road and looking as far ahead as possible is way way more important.

 

[Dairyworker]

Race C is awesomeness. In my opinion. I've been having really good racing and a ton of fun. Still feel a bit rusty as i haven't raced in like 3 months, but even in the middle or back of the pack the racing is hard and clean.

I tried a few of the cars but i can't come close to my lap in the M3.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Race C is awesomeness. In my opinion. I've been having really good racing and a ton of fun. Still feel a bit rusty as i haven't raced in like 3 months, but even in the middle or back of the pack the racing is hard and clean.

I tried a few of the cars but i can't come close to my lap in the M3.

The LFA is the faster QT car but race wise I think in a matched lobby the M3 is the car to be in

 

[Talon16]

I don’t agree. If you are driving fast in a car with an h-pattern ‘box and you don’t rev match before downshifting you’ll upset the car by locking the rear wheels (how much depends on how high the revs spike on downshift).

My first track day in my old aircooled 911, I downshifted while braking into a corner but didn’t blip the throttle and the rear started fish tailing!

Did the rears lock or did the balance get upset and become front heavy due to the sudden weight transfer forward? Obviously, if you don't rev match there will be much more of a jerking forward effect as you let off the clutch which would cause the rear to lighten up, and potential oversteer/looseness.

I had that happen to me in the RSX-S. Well, kinda. It was lift-throttle-oversteer where I want into a turn (maybe 90mph), let of the gas (didn't even touch the brakes), and just that letting off of the gas was enough to loosen the rear to the point where I went around and ended up in the sand. This effect would've been exacerbated had I downshifted into a lower gear and let off the clutch without rev matching. That was definitely a pretty high pucker factor and learning experience!

 

[newmedia_dev]

Did the rears lock or did the balance get upset and become front heavy due to the sudden weight transfer forward? Obviously, if you don't rev match there will be much more of a jerking forward effect as you let off the clutch which would cause the rear to lighten up, and potential oversteer/looseness.

I had that happen to me in the RSX-S. Well, kinda. It was lift-throttle-oversteer where I want into a turn (maybe 90mph), let of the gas (didn't even touch the brakes), and just that letting off of the gas was enough to loosen the rear to the point where I went around and ended up in the sand. This effect would've been exacerbated had I downshifted into a lower gear and let off the clutch without rev matching. That was definitely a pretty high pucker factor and learning experience!

I rolled my first car (205 GTi) over by lifting off sharply. I just didn't no any better back then at 17 and it was way more car than I could handle.

Short wheel base, panic lift off and I was a passenger.

30 years later almost, I've learned to "ride the slide" and let the car naturally find its balance. I take this ethos in to GT and crash and spin much less. Sure I give up lap times here and there but it is so rewarding catching a slide (on a wheel) and that is only one lap in a ten lap session or every lap in the 911 this week at TM

 

[Dairyworker]

The LFA is the faster QT car but race wise I think in a matched lobby the M3 is the car to be in

They all feel really well matched tbh. I've had really close battles with supras, NSXs, and lots of LFAs. Tbh i own an 07 3 series. Far from an m3, but still i feel obligated 😂

 

[newmedia_dev]

They all feel really well matched tbh. I've had really close battles with supras, NSXs, and lots of LFAs. Tbh i own an 07 3 series. Far from an m3, but still i feel obligated 😂

I dunno I think the oil burner 3 series is probably the best overall car there is performance and handling wise. And I'm not kidding.

The m3 is the fastest car but the LFA has 1 thing going for it, a better diff for this combo. In race it loses out in a few braking zones and really needs you to nail the back straight.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

It's been a couple of weeks since my last win, so this felt good, even if it was because both guys in front of me just plain lost it at one point or another.

I haven't tried it, but I will now. What I do know is that the BRZ doesn't feel like a normal car and I can't put my finger on it. Clearly it's the meta but I just can't get those times from it and when I say those times I mean being a second or even 2 back from the top ghosts.

It's been interesting to see that, in the B lobbies I've been in, the BRZs haven't really been competitive. One or two here or there, but mostly, they just don't seem to show well.

I've learned to "ride the slide" and let the car naturally find its balance.

I had a first-gen RX7 (I had one of each of the first 3 generations) that was a blast to power slide. it was really fun, because you knew exactly when it was going to let loose, and it never just suddenly lost the grip.

There was a freeway onramp in Riverside that I used to have a blast with. It was out of the way, so not a lot of other traffic. The road approached the freeway at 90 degrees, then had a sharp right that took you onto the onramp (it was flat). I used to take it faster and faster, trying to see how fast I could take it and power-slide around the corner.

I never did find my max speed, because I got nailed for reckless driving and almost lost my license. Ah, to be young and stupid again. (Instead of old and stupid like I am now, lol.)

 

[Tuono_GT]

Race C this week certainly is a gem.., but it's just a shame that too many people see it as a production car demolition deby.

I said at the beginning of the week that an awful lot of people will have their ratings destroyed. Personally, I have tried to stay away but did relent on a few occasions and am now demoted from a SR rating of S to A. I was a B rated DR... I went to D (yes I quit races after getting smashed about and ending up at the back, so far off the lead that it really wasn't worth continuing), back to C and have just been smashed at full tilt by an absolute **** who obviously doesn't know that cars have a brake pedal. So, I went and parked in the garage. This has happened so many times in this race this week that it's ridiculous. PD need to immediately place a 10sec penalty on those idiots or just disconnect them from the game - I think they'll get the idea.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Did a couple of C races this morning in all A/S lobbies and it was immensely clean race 1 I finished 5th and race 2 I finished second by 1/10 at the line.

Went back and improved my QT down to 2:03:1 with and optimal of 2:02:7 so there is definitely some time I can find.

I've found that it's safer and smarter to let people go as the insane slip stream on both straights makes the return pass more safer than trying risky stuff in to the twisty sections.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

Race C this week certainly is a gem.., but it's just a shame that too many people see it as a production car demolition deby.

I said at the beginning of the week that an awful lot of people will have their ratings destroyed. Personally, I have tried to stay away but did relent on a few occasions and am now demoted from a SR rating of S to A. I was a B rated DR... I went to D (yes I quit races after getting smashed about and ending up at the back, so far off the lead that it really wasn't worth continuing), back to C and have just been smashed at full tilt by an absolute **** who obviously doesn't know that cars have a brake pedal. So, I went and parked in the garage. This has happened so many times in this race this week that it's ridiculous. PD need to immediately place a 10sec penalty on those idiots or just disconnect them from the game - I think they'll get the idea.

I wonder if we could see the replay, we might be able to help? Maybe next time try saving the replay and sharing it.