GT7 has failed to be Gran Turismo

[Pizzicato1985]

Wow, great argument.

People have been calling for paid custom races with custom grids for over a decade, so this is nonsense.

Fans cry out for it for ages, they put it in the game, and now according to you they're a 'made up way of playing' that isn't how 'the game was originally intended to be played'.

What are they then? An easter egg?

Were they asking that half of the offline content be sacrificed in order to get custom races into the game? lol

If the game is complete why do we even have IB/IA/S license tests? I'd love to hear the justification

 

[Barracuda413]

This is a rant thread, but rather than an angry rant, it is a very sad rant.

Gran Turismo 7 has unfortunately managed what I thought unthinkable. It failed so miserably that I didn't even play it for 2 days now. I lost all excitement. I had more fun re-playing GT1 and GT2 leading up to the release. Much more fun in fact than GT7 was able to provide so far. I'd hazard that outside of the offshoot releases like the prolouges and sport, this is the worst GT game to date.

I can't point to a single thing that is wrong with GT7, it's a ton of small issues, that might be deemed inconsequential on their own. But put together, it is literally a death of a thousand cuts.

The things that contribute most to the failure are:

1. Lack of freedom to do as you will.
   With all content locked away, you can't do anything but follow the beaten path. Any individuality is sorely punished by the game. For example I purchased a car early on, but I couldn't really use it beyond a few races, because the game unlocks races that are only suitable for the cars that it gave as prizes for the previous ones.
   
   This makes GT mode, or career mode if you will a boring grind, and not an exciting wonderland of opportunities like in previous GT games.
   You do not chose the cars you race, and you do not choose the tracks you race on. There is no sense of achievement of making the right choice of cars.
   
   I was hoping desperately that the menu book nonsense is just part of the tutorial, and soon everything will unlock, but then it continued on and on, trickle feeding content. It's boring me out of my mind.
   
   
2. The bugs and issues surrounding progression and challenges
   Ultimately this was the last straw that broke the horse's back for me. I'm unwilling to waste my time trying to complete missions or challenges that might be bugged. And the casual way in which Polyphony just writes in the "fixed issues" of the release log, that if you previously didn't get a trophy you just need to do the challenges again, boils my blood.
   
   
3. Nerfed credit income
   I really don't understand why fans are taking this without saying a word. Are you confused into silence? The game is obviously designed to shepherd people towards microtransactions. I played the game for two weeks and all I have to show for it is two cars that I was able to purchase for 160k and 250k respectively, and some mild upgrades, and about 500k left in credits. It is pathetic, especially considering that the most desirable cars tend to cost a million credits or more.
   
   Why can't we sell cars, really? Can anyone give a reasonable explanation other than to nerf income? Especially considering that this seems to be a last minute addition since the PS store page of the game still mentions selling as part of the game.
   
   And then we didn't even mention invites to purchase cars yet. It's 100% a play trying to exploit FOMO. Yeah, buy credits now, otherwise we take away your opportunity to buy the Veyron, or whatever. But they can dangle anything in front of me, I spit on it rather than catch when it comes to microtransactions.
   
   
4. The rest of the minor issues
   Like the weird physics, the cluttered hud with tons of useless stuff, the lack of customization of the view position, the talking heads they didn't even bother to voice all take away from the experience.

The worst part is that game failed by design. As in it's not that they failed to do what they set out to do, but the egregious parts are deliberate design decisions.

this is simply wrong, you obviously have no idea what you are doing in game
you claim you have played the game for TWO WEEKS, and only have 2 CARS???
and they cost $160,000 and $250,000 ????
NONE of the required starter cars in the game cost anything close to that amount
and you say you still have a HALF A MILLION CREDITS !!!!
WAY more than enough to continue through the career mode with ease
you can not progress far with only two cars
you even point out that many cars required are GIVEN out as prizes
GO WIN THEM! then play the game and come back with an opinion based on more than speculation

 

[Samus]

Custom races would be great, if the payouts weren't so tiny. Plus they have other limitations.

If a 5 lap custom race gives you 10,000 credits you would need to do 27,000 of those to earn enough credits to buy all the cars currently known. The final figure is going to be even higher, but we don't know it yet. At a generous average of 5 minutes each, not counting the time it takes you to set each race up, loading if you're on PS4, you're looking at 135,000 minutes, or 2200 hours+. But even that is probably far lower than reality, because if you're taking the slower cars to every track those 5 lap races are going to take way more than 5 minutes.

So yes, there is absolutely no doubt there is countless combinations of custom races available but you're crazy if you think that's a reasonable way to earn all the cars.

 

[hejustsits]

Were they asking that half of the offline content be sacrificed in order to get custom races into the game? lol

If the game is complete why do we even have IB/IA/S license tests? I'd love to hear the justification

There's not enough career mode content in the game, fine. There are updates incoming, we've seen glimpses of new events, but people aren't happy that they weren't there on day 1, fine.

What isn't fine is saying that nobody wants or likes custom races, and implying that people that do are morons, just because there aren't enough events to suit your way of playing the game. You only need to look at the history of this forum to see how absurd that argument is.

 

[Nagaremono]

No, you didn't "have to", and you don't "have to" now. You can now if you want more events and you were not always able to do so in previous GT games. It takes some mental gymnastics to turn an often requested benefit expanded upon in GT7 from GT Sport, and not present in earlier titles into a bad thing.

Straw man alert. No, a giant 50-foot wicker man alert.

I’ve never said being able to create races is a “bad thing”. It’s good for the minority of people, like you, who want to make your own races. I’m happy you’re happy.

No. I also want a proper single-player career mode with lots of well-designed (no offence, but I reckon PD should be better at this bit than rank amateurs like you, or me) and well-rewarded races all the way up to Gr1, VGTs and single-seaters. You know, like in all the previous main-series GT titles, which they said 7 would be a return to.

The baffling thing is, you seem to think the race creator bit is enough on its own. Great, but that wouldn’t be what most people would consider a trad single-player GT game. Maybe you can cadge a discount if you tell them that’s all you want...

 

[Bogie 19th]

In GT7 you can create your own race.

Any arguments about not enough events are invalid.

 

[Paulyrichard]

They game is a sad and broken mess!

The car customisation doesn't even include the changing of hoods.
This in itself is kind of like a metaphor for the rest of the game...in other words, lacking!

Polyphony or whoever has shown their hand in dealing out such serious contempt for the players with this game. They do not care at all.

 

[kjb]

They game is a sad and broken mess!

The car customisation doesn't even include the changing of hoods.
This in itself is kind of like a metaphor for the rest of the game...in other words, lacking!

Polyphony or whoever has shown their hand in dealing out such serious contempt for the players with this game. They do not care at all.

Did they ever care? I don't think any company cares about consumers. If they do it because they are trying to get more money out of us.

 

[vasio]

********. Go to World Circuit, check out the championships at the bottom and note the license requirements for each. Now got to Licenses and compare and contrast the two...

We do not have IB/IA/S races, which have always been the "meat" of the career mode. We have no GT500/Gr 2 races, we have no LMP/Group C/Gr 1 races, we have no endurance races, and we're also missing series staples like the MX-5 and Lambo cups.

The offline "career" mode isn't even half-finished. We effectively have the tutorial... There's nothing "invalid" about the argument that the game is incomplete; it's objective truth.

100% agree with this. Using content manager in Assetto Corsa, I have created dozens of championships and had to get car and track mods and balance out the races using power and difficulty manually. It takes a lot more time to do that.
PD have all the tools to do this a lot quicker so why can I do it but PD can’t in all the time they’d had? They literally have teams just for this one job. This comes across as very lazy.
It’s very strange. Some major tracks have like 1 or 2 events. We currently have zero reason to by any cars above Gr.3. What’s the point in that? I feel like the reason for the menu books was because they didn’t create enough content and wanted to cover that up. It’s a glorified tutorial not a GT game. Some championships your having 2 races on the same track! They’ve never done that before. Super weird game design.

To the people saying we can create custom races, this isn’t good enough reason for PD not to create more events. Sport had custom races, almost every game does. The point of GT since the day it was released 25 years ago was progression. They’ve destroyed the feeling of progression in this game. There was events to do so you needed to get the right cars for those events. Without that there’s no direction in the game.

 

[GaugeForever]

delete

 

[Barracuda413]

Custom races would be great, if the payouts weren't so tiny. Plus they have other limitations.

If a 5 lap custom race gives you 10,000 credits you would need to do 27,000 of those to earn enough credits to buy all the cars currently known. The final figure is going to be even higher, but we don't know it yet. At a generous average of 5 minutes each, not counting the time it takes you to set each race up, loading if you're on PS4, you're looking at 135,000 minutes, or 2200 hours+. But even that is probably far lower than reality, because if you're taking the slower cars to every track those 5 lap races are going to take way more than 5 minutes.

So yes, there is absolutely no doubt there is countless combinations of custom races available but you're crazy if you think that's a reasonable way to earn all the cars.

some races payout over 50K
and it took me a LOOOOOOOOOONG time to get every car in GT4
that's the way Gran Turismo works

 

[Samus]

some races payout over 50K

Custom races? Maybe, but on a per hour basis they are never good. Someone worked out the very best you can manage in custom races is about 250K per hour.

and it took me a LOOOOOOOOOONG time to get every car in GT4
that's the way Gran Turismo works

GT4s highest priced car was 4.5 million credits. There were multiple events which gave out a high-value car which you could sell afterwards. There are several late-game events that paid out at rate of something like 2 million an hour. Two hours to get any car you wanted. GT4 also had FAR more to do than GT7 before you had to resort to grinding.

Did it take 10 or 20 hours to get all cars? Was it possible without any grinding at all? No, but it didn't take several hundred hours either, and as mentioned, you had far more original stuff to do without resorting to grinding. The other games were the same. GT2 had a race that gave you 550,000 credits in 5 minutes. GT3 didn't have many cars at all.

This idea that this is how GT works and how it always worked REALLY needs to die.

 

[ebadevil]

People: the game just throws cars at you, you don't have to work hard at choosing and upgrading cars
Also people: I CAN'T GET ALL THE LEGENDARY CARS A WEEK AFTER RELEASE!!!

I for one really like the economy of GT7. The cost of upgrades makes you really value what you put your credits towards. You don't just mindlessly slap top parts on everything.

Most cars are very fairly priced. Even some of the higher end McLarens, Ferraris, Lambos, etc, are very affordable. The really high end cars SHOULD cost more. For example, there were only a handful of Lamborghini Venenos produced. Why shouldn't it be difficult to get and cost a lot? It makes absolute sense. Most cars cost under 450k, that's 15 minutes of racing.

Legendary cars are legendary cars. They SHOULD cost more. Their prices are tied to real world valuations. There should be some work involved in being able to buy those cars, and you need to make a choice on what you want to invest your money into. You don't have to buy the 12mill car right away, and the better performing cars that help with races are actually quite affordable. 800k for that Alfa Romeo is a steal.

I don't understand people. Everyone complains that there's not enough to do, but then also complain that they can't buy all legendary cars 3 days into playing the game?!

EDIT: ok I take back everything I said, PD just officially turned this game into a grindfest with the sole intention of forcing you to go the microtransaction route. This is free Korean MMORPG level bad.

 

[MatskiMonk]

We have no GT500/Gr 2 races,

And yet I was able to complete my daily mileage today in a 6 lap Gr. 2 race at Kyoto, with 20 cars, and a tight rolling start... (most of the pack was two wide out of turn 1). Weird, huh.

Straw man alert. No, a giant 50-foot wicker man alert.

Ah, hyperbole, the cornerstone of any delicious, nutritious reply. Context of thread - GT7 "Failed...", reason - "Lack of freedom to do as you will"...

I point out that the game offers almost unprecedented levels of freedom (for GT) when it comes to racing... but yeah, straw man, I guess.

The baffling thing

An opinion that encompasses more than one perspective is baffling to you...

you seem to think the race creator bit is enough on its own

.. didn't say that.

Also "bit"?... Objectively, it can create pretty much any race you'll get in a "career" mode, or ever want... so it is undeniably a useful tool that offers more replayability than most people will ever use... however, I do get it, how the races are presented is important to some degree, and a nice title card for a series is a nice touch. I have no problem with preset races, I'll race them all, and if there's a scenario not covered, or I get bored, I'll use the race creator. I don't share your opinion that they are, or ever really have been, "well-crafted" though - the missions maybe, but not the "career".

 

[Barracuda413]

so what you are saying is, this game will never get boring because there is always going to be another car to buy?
THAT'S GREAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I get SOOOOOOO BORED of forza games once I own everything

 

[TypeRDC5]

I agree with the game economy but this is very much a Gran Turismo game. Specially more than GT Sport was.

 

[Samus]

but then also complain that they can't buy all legendary cars 3 days into playing the game?!

Yes. That is the exact argument people have been making. Good job on your reading comprehension, you nailed it.

 

[MonoTonouS]

No, I expect them to do the lot, including creating races (lots and lots), for what I pay them. It’s a main series GT game. We never had this problem before. Did we ever have to create our own races in previous titles?

If you like making your own races, good for you, but you’re a tiny, tiny moronity of the GT player base.

 

[Barracuda413]

one more point on the GT4 comparison
in GT4 what you got on the game disk was all you ever got,
GT7 may have launched with much less content than GT4
but we have no idea how much new content will be added in the next few years
by the time we get GT8, GT7 may have as much or MORE content then GT4 could have dreamed of

 

[Nagaremono]

Ah, hyperbole, the cornerstone of any delicious, nutritious reply.

Why hyperbole? Is this statement of yours a straw man, or not?

“It takes some mental gymnastics to turn an often requested benefit expanded upon in GT7 from GT Sport, and not present in earlier titles into a bad thing.”

Point me to where I, or anyone here, say custom races are a bad thing.


Or don’t. ‘Cos you can’t.

 

[Techlet]

so what you are saying is, this game will never get boring because there is always going to be another car to buy?
THAT'S GREAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I get SOOOOOOO BORED of forza games once I own everything

You could easily have some self control and not buy all the cars at once. No?

 

[Matej]

the talking heads they didn't even bother to voice all take away from the experience.

There is too much talking in first place, it fells like you're watching an RPG game with long intro, that is not the style that fits the game like GT, it just slows it down.

In GT7 you can create your own race.

As someone said in another thread, that is not the same as running developer's pre-made events and cannot be compared by any reasonable measure. In custom races you have no objectives, no sense of achievement, which is what majority of players want, especially those who grew up playing GT and expect no less than a good career mode. That's like saying GTA has a huge map where you can do anything you want and therefore does not need to have story missions.

 

[danjama]

People consider having to do the same thing more than once "grinding".

Rough figures...

400 cars × 90 layouts (Some cars can't fit dirt tyres so not all cars at all locations are possible).. call it 36,000 races before you've used the same car and track combo more than once.

Let's say you race 50% of those in the most wide ranging conditions possible, i.e. Clear, Sunny daytime, grid start... vs.. Night time and wet with a rolling start - because those really are pretty different experiences in this game...

.. that's 54,000 races.

... now let's say you only care about 2% of that .. that's still over 1000 races.

... now let's say the game only gets the same amount of DLC as GT Sport did... call it 100 cars and 30 more tracks... and we redo the calculation... we get (500 × 120 × 1.5) × 0.02 = 1800 races.

There's plenty of racing to go at what ever way you look at it.


What, so you expect them to do all the rest of the coding, modeling, sampling, design, promotion, server-side stuff for free?... I dunno man, that seems pretty rough, when all you need to do is select some options from a menu.

You're the sort of person that enables them to get away with it though, apathy is the enemy of progress.

 

[Samus]

one more point on the GT4 comparison
in GT4 what you got on the game disk was all you ever got,
GT7 may have launched with much less content than GT4
but we have no idea how much new content will be added in the next few years
by the time we get GT8, GT7 may have as much or MORE content then GT4 could have dreamed of

You're right, we don't know. If they do add a lot more content and more ways to make money than this discussion will be moot, albeit annoying for those who want to enjoy a game in one piece. But we can't look into the future, we can only discuss what we do have now.

Hopefully PD are reading all of this feedback and it prompts them to make sure the future updates do satisfy people.

 

[Michael88]

I just finished GT7 - I played every Gran Turismo game sans GT Sport, starting all the way back in 1997 with GT1 and I have to say its true that the game is lacking a few things, it feels like a diet-GT.

I think it mostly boils down to this issue: It has WAY too few high-profile races. Where are all the endurance races that provide the big prices and valuable price cars? The 1000 kilometers of track XYZ, the 99 laps of track younameit? Instead of making gamers grinding the same tracks over and over and over again to afford the legendary cars, they should be doing hard interesting endurance events that pay off.


Since adding those races would have been so incredibly simple for PD I can only guess that this is an attempt to give us a 65% finished game to make us pay for the remaining 35% as costly DLC. I SERIOUSLY doubt they simply forgot to add those races and I also SERIOUSLY doubt PD didn't realize the really trimmed down state of their game.
And the more wealthy or addicted gamers are meant to pay big bucks for the credits I suppose.

 

[Matej]

by the time we get GT8, GT7 may have as much or MORE content then GT4 could have dreamed of

Yeah, but GT4 at least gave everything right at the launch, it didn't leave players praying on updates which may take months or years to arrive and probably won't add anything substantially new to the game that would justify all that waiting.

 

[PletdeKoe]

Gran Turismo is 25 years old. Whatever it was it hasn’t been for a long time. It has grown, changed and matured. The fact that you don’t like what it has become, is on you, not Gran Turismo. If you don’t like it, let it be and walk away. Things change. That includes all the things you love.

 

[Barracuda413]

There is too much talking in first place, it fells like you're watching an RPG game with long intro, that is not the style that fits the game like GT, it just slows it down.


As someone said in another thread, that is not the same as running developer's pre-made events and cannot be compared by any reasonable measure. In custom races you have no objectives, no sense of achievement, which is what majority of players want, especially those who grew up playing GT and expect no less than a good career mode. That's like saying GTA has a huge map where you can do anything you want and therefore does not need to have story missions.

I played GTA Vice city for YEARS without bothering to finish the missions

 

[Samus]

Gran Turismo is 25 years old. Whatever it was it hasn’t been for a long time. It has grown, changed and matured. The fact that you don’t like what it has become, is on you, not Gran Turismo. If you don’t like it, let it be and walk away. Things change. That includes all the things you love.

Or we could tell the company producing the product we don't like it and maybe they'll do something about it if enough people share the same view and let it be known? Remember Xbox with their proposed always online console? Remember online access codes in games? Remember a whole host of games that received feedback and changed for the better because of the feedback?

"It is what is it, walk away" is not how you change things in this world. You might be OK with doing that, other people aren't.

 

[MonoTonouS]

You can make your own races with a custom grid. Most players have been asking for this for litteraly a decade. My biggest gripe with Gran Turismo sport is that lots of the events that were added could either be recreated through arcade mode or in the custom race by selecting the appropriate Gr. cars or one makes. There is literally no point in having a grade 2 or grade 3 race when you can select it in the custom race menu, or events with any one make race when you can be selected in the custom race menu as well. I feel poly realized this and opted to make more unique races for Gran Turismo 7. My major complaint with the game is that the majority of career races are rolling start over the game truly shines are in the Clubman cup plus races where most of the races are using grid starts some which are using false gride starts which cannot be replicated in the custom game mode. Either way you can recreate pretty challenging and fun races using your garage cars .
I also find your claim that the game shoehornes you into playing a specific way disingenuous. For example a lot of menus require you to collect three cars.The game gives you two options when collecting these three cars . Win them in the events you just unlocked or buy them with credits. Thats ONE more way than any granturismo has ever offered ( buying a car) . Yes you could win prize cars , but the game did not give you prize cars for the next events. In GT1/2 alot of races would give you a inferior car for winning a race , usualy a car that could be used for that race . Like , did i not just fully tune a NSX for you to give me a stock Honda Civic with a special trim. In 7 the UCD even updates so you can go buy the required cars USED or new if it is '01 + . You do not have to unlock the cars via the races. The licence test are open before you even do a menu book . I did The national B and A licence before I did any menu book , used the prize Gt3000 to beat the first championship with ease , and completed a menu book before it was even give to me, U even got special dialoge saying " seems you already have this licence , congratulations here is your reward" . You can let the menu book guide you or you can do your own thing . None of the chilli pepper races are required for the menu books either. They are there for you to do and pay out good money. The Cafe itself also has a reason to go to it outside of the menu books. Take random cars there during different hours and there are people who will tell you factoids about the cars . The designer of the miata has a nice story about a couple who invited them to their wedding because they met in the miata car club in texas. The talking heads give you tips and tell you why they love the cars they drive and keen players will notice alot of them were champs in GT sports real world championships..

Also I feel it is a valid rebuttal to say " make your own events" . Why ask PD to make a one make event or a FWD event when you can make one with your own garage cars.