GT7 has failed to be Gran Turismo

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Barracuda413
and it took me a LOOOOOOOOOONG time to get every car in GT4
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And the in-game economy in GT7 is conservatively 8 times slower than GT4's was, with significantly less to do, and that's if you do nothing at all but grind Fisherman's.

If you use the Custom Race tool to try and progress you're going to need to over quadruple that 8 times slower!

Progression in GT7 and GT4 is not even close to comparable.
 
MatskiMonk
Fair enough. Stick around for another decade or so and you'll see how often the term grinding quickly applies to pretty much everything you have to do in a game. Celebrated GTPedia Author Andrew Evans recently stated he thought a good economy was one where you had to do every task the game offered once, in order to make all content available.
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If you're going to talk about @Famine at least have the courtesy to tag him in the post.
 
Barracuda413
one more point on the GT4 comparison
in GT4 what you got on the game disk was all you ever got,
GT7 may have launched with much less content than GT4
but we have no idea how much new content will be added in the next few years
by the time we get GT8, GT7 may have as much or MORE content then GT4 could have dreamed of
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Why is this acceptable to you? We are going to wait until gt8 releases so that gt7 "may have as much or MORE content then GT4 could have dreamed of"? I would think something like GT4 should be the starting point for content in a game that is infinitely expandable...

The idea that a race creator (which is cool if you just want to race the few cars that you get after cafe..many of which I am not interested in) with very little payout should invalidate people complaints that this game released with minimal content is laughable.
 
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Hmm as a guy who has played gt games since the first one this is the first gt game that i have been excited about since gt 5im actually enjoying gt all over again
 
Scaff
If you're going to talk about @Famine at least have the courtesy to tag him in the post.
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SSsssshhh... It's a trap! just incase anyone wanted to question the authority of the source! :D

I believe I did accurately convey his sentiment though, no? And, I figure he's enough notifications to keep him busy!

Pizzicato1985
I think it's awesome that you can find value in doing such things at this point, and I'm not being snide, I honestly mean it.

What you're doing is exactly the kind of thing I'd do after a game has ceased receiving support. But at that point I'd already have all the cars I wanted/needed and would not be worrying about credits. GT has always been a car collection game for me first, and a racing game second. It's historically been structured like a racing game/Pokemon game/JRPG mashup, and that is the game I fell in love with as a kid. If I had the credits to buy a bunch of cars I'd probably be doing the exact same thing you are, and be content in doing so. But as it currently stands any credits I get have to be saved for what might pop up in the UCD and Legend lot. Think I've only bought one car from Brand Central and that was a car on invitation.

I have a history of addiction, almost 12 years not being able to go more than 6hr without an opiate, usually heroin, that all stemmed from a back injury in college. Two years ago I finally slayed that demon, and have found that gaming helps fill the boredom and keep my mind from wandering back into some really dark places. So when a game starts intentionally mind ****ing me in order to get me to spend money/feel that I have to buy a car now due to artificial scarcity, I take umbrage with that. I know that no one is forcing me to save credits for rare cars, but that's the thing with addiction and psychological manipulation, it doesn't reside within the realm of logic and reason.

Add the lack of content at launch on top of this scummy psychological trickery and it is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. Again, I'm glad you're satisfied with the game, but for many of us that which is currently on-offer is not acceptable and I hope you can empathize with that.

Have a good one.
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Thank you for you for candor.

I'm not going to do the amateur psychologist bit, but there's got to be more worthwhile ways to spend your time gaming? I've a considerable alcohol problem... I've always found manipulating a game a better distraction than playing it... from creating DooM .wads on my families 486 DX2/66 back in the 90's to making SVG's for GT7 players and learning Blender so I can make assets for Cities:Skylines... it always feels better to wake up knowing you've made something, than just played something... even if you're still ****** off your ****, but that's just my genuine two cents.

I don't have a full opinion on the MTX's or the economy of GT 7 yet.

I'm satisfied with the game (to a point) because for the first time in a long time, just driving the cars (snap oversteer and all) is a worthy return... I'm dis-satisfied because the hundreds of hours I spent making liveries has been nuked (despite the best of intentions by PD), it's not a perfect game, but after a week or so I'm still enjoying it.
 
HyperSpeeder
Fisherman's gives north of 1.8 million/hour.
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Yes, shame that cars are more expensive than GT4 though, or you might have a point.

Not to mention that is literally the only single race anywhere close to that rate. Past GT games have had several events with large payouts.

So no, GT4 is still nothing like GT7.

EDIT: Found a list of all used cars in GT4 with credit costs - https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps2/561066-gran-turismo-4/faqs/38200

Total cost of all used cars is 6.68M, but 1.95M of that is for the black TS-020, technically an extra car. Can't find a list of the new cars yet. Given that GT7 used cars now includes Legendary Cars, the total between that and UCD is already 115M with 68 cars left to price up, but many of them are going to run into millions.

It also gives out a whopping 166 prize cars from a huge amount of events, something else GT7 doesn't yet have - https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps2/561066-gran-turismo-4/faqs/35651
 
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RikkiGT-R
Considering Rally cars in GT7 react to bumps the same way cats react to cucumbers… no it definitely is not fun.

It’s almost as if PD knew what their highest paying event is, and then intentionally made it torture to grind.
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If anything the sequence of events would've been the other way: They knew what the worst event to grind would be, and made that the highest paying event.

After all, they need something to make sure there's a way to pay for the cars without MTX... but if it's just torturous enough, it might push more people to buy the MTX anyway.

Of course, maybe that wasn't intentional, but considering how predatory this game's MTX have proven to be already, I wouldn't be surprised.
 
AutumnalGlow
But is it fun? A video game is meant to be fun.
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I bought every single Gr.B car. When I need to grind, I rotate the cars after about 5 races. I enjoy trying to set the best times, compare the way different cars drive, try to tweak the tunes of the cars that I don't do well with. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm personally having a good time even grinding FB. It helps though that I generally really like rally racing.
 
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m76
Nerfed credit income
I really don't understand why fans are taking this without saying a word. Are you confused into silence? The game is obviously designed to shepherd people towards microtransactions. I played the game for two weeks and all I have to show for it is two cars that I was able to purchase for 160k and 250k respectively, and some mild upgrades, and about 500k left in credits. It is pathetic, especially considering that the most desirable cars tend to cost a million credits or more.

Why can't we sell cars, really? Can anyone give a reasonable explanation other than to nerf income? Especially considering that this seems to be a last minute addition since the PS store page of the game still mentions selling as part of the game.

And then we didn't even mention invites to purchase cars yet. It's 100% a play trying to exploit FOMO. Yeah, buy credits now, otherwise we take away your opportunity to buy the Veyron, or whatever. But they can dangle anything in front of me, I spit on it rather than catch when it comes to microtransactions.
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This...

The creators made the game in a way for you to collect all the cars, even showing you a menu with every single car in there for you to scroll through to learn about the history of each and every single one of them.
Until here, all is good. I myself have always been a collector in any Gran Turismo game.

Now... The game only allows you to get about 80-90 cars after you have completed everything. And let's not forget, none of these cars are even that expensive aside from 5 or so which would be above 1 million, and yes, none of them are the unicorns that will cost over 10 million.
Which from my calculations, those are going to be the Jaguar XJ13, the Ferrari 330 P4, the Shelby Daytona Coupe, the Ferrari 250 GTO, the Porsche 917k and others who may potentially be as well like the Jaguar D-type, Lamborghini Miura, Alfa Romeo Giulia TZ2 and the legendary Group C cars like the Sauber C9, Mazda 787b, Nissan R92CP, Jaguar XJR9, Porsche 962 C...

Even the rewards have been nerfed. In every numbered title so far, you would get a prize for Bronze, Silver and Gold.
Yet they removed the silver prize for pretty much everything. With 5 Licenses, that's 5 less cars you are not going to get, same with the missions.
Heck, they don't even give you prized cars for passing the circuit experiences. Some cheap or moderately expensive cars would be fine, but not even that. And some of them are ridiculously hard for the average player.

Worst of all is of course, the overall credit income.
You beat all the missions, beat all the licenses, beat all the circuit experiences, beat all of the café menus and win all of the available races on the world circuits... and you get what from all of these events? Probably not even 7 million credits. Which isn't even enough to buy one of the top 5 unicorns of this game.

What do you have to do to earn as much credits as possible in the shortest amount of time? One boring 1v1 Rally Race (with broken jumping physics on top of that) to earn you 97.500 credits in about 3:15 minutes. And this is really the only solution because anything else doesn't even come close to this.

With 7 million credits, of which about 1.5-2 million I'm going to be forced to waste on tuning some cars to win some of the difficult "chase the rabbit" races, so you are actually left with about 5 million to buy cars, you will buy 2 high-end cars that cost over 2 million each, a Veyron and say a Lamborghini Veneno. And you have over 20 of those cars in the game left to buy and this isn't even taking into acount the potential cars that are going to cost that amount like the F40, F50, McLaren F1, etc...
Oh, and this is assuming you even have the invite to buy all these cars... Really??? Why!???? Do I even need to say what is so wrong with this?

Currently, I have an invite to buy a Veyron for 2.000.000 that will end on 25/03/2022, and there's a unicorn like the XJ13 in the legendary dealership for 13.000.000, as well as a new entry to the series that for sure a lot of us would like to drive, the Porsche 911 GT1, for 3.000.000, oh and a fan favourite Ferrari F40 for 1.300.000

That's 19.3 million credits I have to gather in a time period to get all of them before they disappear and I have to wait until God knows how long to see them again.

So, the best way to earn those gargantuan 19.3 million credits is to do the Rally Race for 97.500 credits in 3:15, which taking into account the retrys and loading times is more like 3:30 so I'll go with that.

19.300.000 / 97.500 = 198 races

198 races x 210 seconds (3:30 minutes) = 41.580 seconds... This translates into almost 12 hours... of doing the same boring and crappy Rally Race, over, and over, and over again.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND, this is also assuming you are extra careful not to bump the other car or you don't get the 50% bonus.

This is absolute torture. Who the hell has fun doing this? It has so many restrictions that it just takes the fun away and just ends up with you frustrating yourself. I do 10 races of that Rally race and get bored and have to switch to another game to actually have some fun.

And that's just 19.3 million credits for those 4 cars. As I stated above, there's about 12-13 other cars that combined are over 100 million and a ton of others on brand central that also cost over 1 million or 3 million like the P1 GT3, FXXK, Vulcan, Veneno...

If the combined amount of all the cars left for you to buy after you finish the entire game is about 130 million (it's more, but I'm lowballing it) that's 78 hours of doing one race to get those cars.

Expensive cars
Absurdly low credit income
Absurd lack of variety in the ways to earn credit (1 race literally)
Time constraints to buy the most expensive cars in the Legendary car dealer
You need invites to buy the more expensive cars in brand central which you don't know when you'll get them... and when you get them, they again have a time limit.
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And we have some people here defending this design?




Oh... But we DO HAVE ANOTHER WAY.

Just... Use your wallet.

😒



Let's just hope this improves. I realize that games will no longer be the complete product on launch day, but this? This is just being scumy.
It's almost as worse as EA with Star Wars battlefront locking away heroes and fan favourites like Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker behind 40 hours (each) of grinding or... you could just pay to unluck them right away.
Or R* with GTA Online.

Come on PD, you made something as amazing as Gran Turismo 4. Just go back to those roots ffs.
 
ebadevil
I bought every single Gr.B car. When I need to grind, I rotate the cars after about 5 races. I enjoy trying to set the best times, compare the way different cars drive, try to tweak the tunes of the cars that I don't do well with. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm personally having a good time even grinding FB.
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Is this what you envisioned when you bought GT7? Would you be doing this if it wasn't the primary grinding option? I'm going to hazard a guess the answer to both of those questions is no.
 
Samus
Yes, shame that cars are more expensive than GT4 though, or you might have a point.

Not to mention that is literally the only single race anywhere close to that rate. Past GT games have had several events with large payouts.

So no, GT4 is still nothing like GT7.

EDIT: Found a list of all used cars in GT4 with credit costs - https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps2/561066-gran-turismo-4/faqs/38200

Total cost of all used cars is 6.68M, but 1.95M of that is for the black TS-020, technically an extra car. Can't find a list of the new cars yet. Given that GT7 used cars now includes Legendary Cars, the total between that and UCD is already 115M with 68 cars left to price up, but many of them are going to run into millions.

It also gives out a whopping 166 prize cars from a huge amount of events, something else GT7 doesn't yet have - https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps2/561066-gran-turismo-4/faqs/35651
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All the Dirt Champions races (3 in total) pay the same amount of credits. Fisherman's is quickest, though.

The Legends cars heavily inflate the used cars' total price. Even then, the vast majority of the used cars in this game can be purchased with little effort. With Fisherman's, I can even max out any of them in as little as 10 minutes. The Lamborghinis are the only ones that take too much money to purchase so far.

You conveniently forgot that many of these prize cars from GT4 were from events that were either really long, really hard, or both. GT7 is almost Forza-like in that it quickly fills your garage up with cars you really don't want, but must accept, because that's the way the game works.
 
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I'll never understand how all the critics said it's bringing gt back to its roots when literally nothing except you drive cars is the same as back in the days. rags to riches is gone, the whole "campaign" is doing a repeating quest of 3 races with next to no limitations except country or manufacturer.
 
Wheatybic
I'll never understand how all the critics said it's bringing gt back to its roots when literally nothing except you drive cars is the same as back in the days. rags to riches is gone, the whole "campaign" is doing a repeating quest of 3 races with next to no limitations except country or manufacturer.
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Pretty much.

No endurance races.
No GT500 event races or championship.
No Group 1 / Group C championship.
No Formula championship.
You can't sell cars and you also can't reset a championship to win back a car again like in most other previous titles.
 
Grimm6Jack
Pretty much.

No endurance races.
No GT500 event races or championship.
No Group 1 / Group C championship.
No Formula championship.
You can't sell cars and you also can't reset a championship to win back a car again like in most other previous titles.
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Basically a game which focuses on car collecting.

Waiting for updates is the perfect form of damage control.
 
HyperSpeeder
You conveniently forgot that many of these prize cars from GT4 were from events that were either really long, really hard, or both.
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...and yet one could very easily get B-Spec Bob to win these cars, often very easily, by simply leaving your console on. You didn't need to race for most of the prize cars in GT4's upper echelon of events.

HyperSpeeder
GT7 is almost Forza-like in that it quickly fills your garage up with cars you really don't want, but must accept, because that's the way the game works.
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The game literally gives the cars that you ultimately would need to beat the game because it is a goal of the menus. But apparently basing games off of Forza in general is the worst sin on Earth for you, so this isn't a surprise. Hell, half of the cars that most people like in these types of games you get through beating the subsequent races in the Menus! Certainly a vast majority of the JDM heroes you get from the menus, and at a better price then if you simply just bought the mileage examples that just so happen to show up in the UCD once you start a menu.
 
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HyperSpeeder
You conveniently forgot that many of these prize cars from GT4 were from events that were either really long, really hard, or both.
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Why would you think I forgot that? Are you trying to portray that as a negative against GT4? It's called playing the game. Nobody has an issue with playing the game put in front of them by the creators to earn things. The problem is people already finished playing the game PD put in front of them this time, it was incredibly short and unrewarding.
 
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Samus
Is this what you envisioned when you bought GT7? Would you be doing this if it wasn't the primary grinding option? I'm going to hazard a guess the answer to both of those questions is no.
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On some level yeah. GT has always been grindy. Whether that's grinding Red Rock Valley or SSX, grinding has always been a staple of the series in one way or another. I might be really weird but I enjoy the sense that some effort went into buying these cars. I wasn't sure what I would be grinding, but I expected there would be a grind of some sort or another. I really do wish that there would be actual races that I could take the cars that I buy into. The lack of end game content is really disappointing.
 
MatskiMonk
In GT7 you can create your own race.

Any arguments about not enough events are invalid.
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I love this feature idea. After hearing all the negative things about GT7 this is the last strand I'm on in terms of wanting the game after my desire getting diminished. Even if you can't save them.

However Creating your own Levels/Challenges is never a substitute for lack of content. That's like saying we don't need 2D Mario games anymore because the Super Mario Maker series now exists. In fact quite the opposite, the option to create your own races should up the standards for Polyphony and create some remarkable, creative and memorable races that we couldn't think about making ourselves.
 

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