GT7 in 4K?

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I personally would quite like to upgrade to one if it is ever made. Likely would be more energy efficient to play games at same resolution.
Sony: "Want to play 'X' game, that will be £300 for a new version of the PS4"
Joe Average: "But I already have a PS4?"
Sony: "Want to play 'X' game, that will be £300 for a new version of the PS4"

I strongly suspect you would be in a small minority here.

Still an if after all.
A very, very big one; which is quite the opposite of your original stance.

Think it will be running natively.
Unless its limited to 30fps they will still have to run additional processes (Chroma downsampling isn't going to happen on its own); interesting to see that you are setting PD's sights so low for them. 4K at 30fps rather than 1080p and a locked 60fps would be borderline moronic in my view.
 
Since this discussion is getting crazy out of hand, all I'll say is this:

Segregating the consumer base with all sorts of crazy add-ons and upgrades erodes confidence in the product (creating suspicion that perhaps there will be another upgrade later on), creates confusion, and means that only certain people who have paid for the upgrade will be able to take advantage of products designed for said upgrades. This exact combination of factors was exactly what caused SEGA's decline - at one point, it was possible to buy the Master System, Game Gear, Mega Drive, Mega-CD, and 32X (something made even more confusing by the selection of games available that were "CD 32X" games that required both add-ons).
 
...While I don't believe Sony will do a harakiri and launch a PS4.5 anytime soon, I can see how an enterprising young go-getter could talk the idea into the company management with 'em sweet words of $$.

Although I've never owned one, you don't have to look too far to see a successful console upgrade scheme in the foldable shape of Nintendo DS and its numerous incarnations.
 
Sony: "Want to play 'X' game, that will be £300 for a new version of the PS4"
Joe Average: "But I already have a PS4?"
Sony: "Want to play 'X' game, that will be £300 for a new version of the PS4"

I strongly suspect you would be in a small minority here.


A very, very big one; which is quite the opposite of your original stance.


Unless its limited to 30fps they will still have to run additional processes (Chroma downsampling isn't going to happen on its own); interesting to see that you are setting PD's sights so low for them. 4K at 30fps rather than 1080p and a locked 60fps would be borderline moronic in my view.
Think you will be able to still play 'X' game on original PS4. Want 4K and VR for 'X' game, get the new PS4.

It's always been an if for me, don't think I've ever said it's guaranteed.

Why would they need to downsample? 4K @ 60Hz is not a low target. It's not one or the other though, main game would be 1080p and hopefully up to 120Hz.
 
Think you will be able to still play 'X' game on original PS4. Want 4K and VR for 'X' game, get the new PS4.
Adding to the development time and complexity.

It's always been an if for me, don't think I've ever said it's guaranteed.
I'm quite sure I'm not alone in reading your posts as no where near so moderate on the subject, you have been practically saying its just over the hill from the time the PS4 launched.

Why would they need to downsample? 4K @ 60Hz is not a low target. It's not one or the other though, main game would be 1080p and hopefully up to 120Hz.
You are aware that the only way anyone has been able to get 4K@60hz via HDMI 1.4 is by Chroma downsampling? I assume so given that you posted as much, after all "YUV420" refers to Chroma subsampling (which in the case of 4.2.0 is downsampled as true UHD would be 4.4.4 which is not Chroma subsampled).
 
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and hopefully up to 120Hz.
120Hz/FPS is not feasible for two reasons:

1. 1080p/60FPS is already a stretch, doing double that amount is just not doable in terms of performance. Maybe for hotlapping/fixed weather situations only, but why would they make such a split for such a limited scenario?
2. 120 FPS will require a <8ms screen (or you won't even see the extra rendered frames). No TV is capable of that as far as I know, only PC monitors.

Then again, PD did make that completely worthless GPS thing, so I'm certainly not putting anything past them.
 
120Hz/FPS is not feasible for two reasons:

2. 120 FPS will require a <8ms screen (or you won't even see the extra rendered frames). No TV is capable of that as far as I know, only PC monitors.

Then again, PD did make that completely worthless GPS thing, so I'm certainly not putting anything past them.

Plasma TV ? Still being produced, although mainly in Asia.
 
Anyone that thinks the PS4 was ever capable of doing 4K games is bonkers or that it would really happen.
PS4 like every other generation of console no doubt the games will improve (technically) each year but not to enable that extent of additional resources.

I have said before and few developers over the years have done what Polyphony Digital have with GT. They always strived to push technical capabilities with this franchise. Perhaps not in audio terms though (lol).

Lets remember:
  • 60fps framerate originally via NTSC versions
  • 1080i mode on NTSC via PS2
  • 1080p via 5 Screen Support (after release patch ref GT5)
  • Head tracking and 3D Gaming in 720p.

It is worth noting that GT5 / GT6 did not render in full 1920x1080 resolution while maintaining the 1080 vertical with GT6 using 1440x1080. I could be wrong but recall once reading only car menu/selection screens offered the full 1920x1080 rendering? Still though we could question how many games today are fully 1920x1080 as often only the vertical is mentioned.

Future?
Sony VR = for certain and this will likely kill multi-screen support for GT also
PS4.5 (4K) = could this use its own internal 4K up-scaling with possible full HDMI 2.0 feature support

I doubt Sony want to create a situation that has confusion regards a two tier 1080p/4K system. Besides really is 4K native GPU power even feasible yet at a typical console price-point = NO NO NO.

A (new) system does not make sense at this time but a revised one does. Consider it like a revised PS4 (slim) with potentially having up-scaling possibility and marketed with 4KTV new HDR capabilities and all such branding. This very much might sell well.

*While not for actual gaming, is it possible GT7 could render in 4K @30Hz for specific showcase modes or to emphasise the beauty of car models? If this mode is enabled on PS4 via system update. This creates no compatibility issues but could make an updated PS4.5 for all games visually look better and be viable/desirable for 4KTV HDR owners.

"Dolby Vision HDR" should appear on future games according to this
Full Details/Interview
Industry Info/Compatibility
Possible Clues Of PS4.5


Is the rumoured PS4.5 going to support 4K HDR, could it even have a 4K Blu Ray capability for video persuist? I personally believe it will be picture quality updated rather than GPU related.

HDR premium.jpg
 
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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...ystation-4k-is-real-but-why-is-sony-making-it

while more GPU power is being offered to developers, realistically it is nowhere near enough to provide native 4K gaming at the same quality level as current 1080p titles. The full extent of the spec is a current focus of enquiry for us, but realistically, it is simply impossible to cram the equivalent of today's top-end PC graphics hardware into a console-sized, mass-market box.

But here's the rub - everything we're hearing suggests that Sony is expecting this console to be paired with a UHD display. However, realistically, achieving even a 2x increase in GPU power compared to the current PS4 would be a remarkable achievement. To fit into a console-sized box, even this may be too optimistic.

Making life more difficult is the need for a bump to the surrounding memory architecture. More memory would be required to get more out of 4K resolution (higher quality textures), but more than that - faster RAM is required to service a more potent GPU.

Actual 4K games will be in very short supply.

Resolution could be pushed beyond 1080p and could look good on a 4K screen, but native UHD visuals for triple-A titles are off the table.

while we may see enhanced visuals and a push to extract the best from next-gen 4K displays, actual UHD native resolution gaming is simply not possible on cutting-edge titles, based on the technologies available to Sony now or in the next couple of years.
 
I'll go out on a limb and guess that @Saidur_Ali still won't be convinced:lol:

I said I was done and I am, I'm not going to engage in any more back and forth on it but the problem for him is that this is coming from the exact same source (Digital Foundry) that he continually used to backup his position it was possible. From the theoretical performance of GT, Trine 2 theoretically at 4k and something else I forget, it was all Digital Foundry or EG. Now that exact same source is stating the above. Oops.
 
What if Sony take the 1st option mentioned in the article :

Option #1: A new, more powerful PlayStation

The current-gen console processors are an assemblage of off-the-shelf AMD components with some level of customisation requested by Sony. In the move to 14/16nm production technology, there's a 2x increase to transistor density compared to 28nm, meaning that Sony can produce a microprocessor the same size as PS4's current Liverpool chip, but theoretically twice as powerful. Sony could also stand to benefit from AMD's advances in both CPU and GPU technology - its upcoming Zen CPU cores and Polaris GPU architecture.

However, the question of which parts are available to Sony comes down to timelines. Polaris is viable but difficulties may arise in terms of the new APU's CPU component. AMD's Zen architecture releases first as a performance desktop part towards the latter end of this year - consoles rely on low-power mobile technology, and the PC equivalents remain unclear, with no mention on AMD's roadmaps. There's a very strong possibility that a 2017 revised PlayStation could feature a relatively big jump in GPU performance, but conversely, the CPU component could remain much the same.

We know a little - but still not much - about Polaris, AMD's new GPU component, due later this year. We know that it's based on a fourth generation iteration of its GCN architecture, we know that AMD is promising a radical improvement in performance per watt (a mixture of design improvements, plus the move to 14nm FinFET fabrication technology), and we know that two processors have been designed - Polaris 10 and 11 - aimed at mainstream and higher-end markets. Think of them as today's equivalents to GCN's initial launch in 2011/2012 with the arrival of the Radeon HD 7970/7950 (codename Tahiti) and Radeon HD 7870/7850 (Pitcairn).

But here's the rub - everything we're hearing suggests that Sony is expecting this console to be paired with a UHD display. However, realistically, achieving even a 2x increase in GPU power compared to the current PS4 would be a remarkable achievement. To fit into a console-sized box, even this may be too optimistic.

Making life more difficult is the need for a bump to the surrounding memory architecture. More memory would be required to get more out of 4K resolution (higher quality textures), but more than that - faster RAM is required to service a more potent GPU. We aren't hopeful of a massive bump here, owing to cost issues. Other faster technologies - like HBM for example - exist but remain too expensive and aren't ready right now for show-time in a console.

From the media side of things, we would expect Sony to support HDMI 2.0, offering 4K video output at 60Hz along with the HDCP 2.2 content protection scheme - so Netflix at 4K on this unit would be no problem. We would not be surprised to see a next-gen 4K Blu-ray player in there either.

What we might expect:

An APU with a higher-end Polaris would push graphics on - a 2x performance boost in GPU power compared to PS4 is achievable in a console form-factor. Possibly more - we really need to see the desktop PC equivalent parts first.
By default, Polaris has support for 4K, HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 and HDR.
Console would not be cheap owing to the size of the processor - conceivably on par with PS4's £359/$399 launch price.
Possibly higher depending on how much Sony pushes the boat out in terms of processor size and memory allocation.
This PS4K could co-exist with a cheaper 'PS4 Slim' based on the older APU, again using 14nm/16nm technology.

The bottom line: In 2017, production technologies on 14/16nm should be more mature, and a significantly more powerful PlayStation could be released. But the pace of technological progress in the PC space isn't as rapid as it is on mobile. It took four dramatic leaps in chip production technology to make the generation leap between PS3 and PS4 possible. By 2017, there will have only been one viable jump in fabrication technology available to console manufacturers, and expectations should be limited. Actual 4K games will be in very short supply.
 
What if Sony take the 1st option mentioned in the article :
That was covered over the last 2 pages.
In a nutshell, technology isn't ready yet for consoles to run 4k. Consoles are aiming for 1080p @ 60fps. 4k is 3x that.
 
It has to be PlayStation VR. I refuse to believe 4k is their main target.

It's not even for that, doesn't the VR unit come with it's own external proc in a box that runs between the VR headset and the PS4? The PS4 can't even run VR without a co-processor.
 
...Just came away reading about Eurogamer's article on PS4K; apparently it's not a feverish pipe dream of a fanboy but an actual, functional prototype in the hands of a few development studios already.

I wonder if GT:S is somehow tied to this as-yet unannounced machine. Yikes.

And here I was, saying in another thread that Sony wouldn't do stuff like this...

Edit: here's the link:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...ystation-4k-is-real-but-why-is-sony-making-it

And I've made a mistake - it's not the game devs, but Sony's R&D guys. Oops.

...Well well well, the plot thickens.

http://bgr.com/2015/02/05/ps4-xbox-one-4k-support/

One of the highlights:

According to Netflix, they’ll support 4K resolution.

As originally reported by The Huffington Post during CES 2015, Netflix’s Chief Product Officer Neil Hunt said that Sony had “promised” a hardware revision for the PS4 that would include 4K capability.

....Admittedly, it's about 4k video contents not gaming, but looks like the PS4.5 or PS4k or whatever, is actually an old news.
 

...???

:P

Indeed, the more I dig into it, more it sounds like the whole thing was planned well in advance, only now the bits and pieces of info/details are emerging.

4K gaming is a still years away, no doubt about it. It's just not cost effective right now.
 
If it's more powerful yet can't do 4K, then what's the point?

What is the point....
Primarily picture quality with HDR benefits, potential for BR 4K and 4K streaming services. If it includes these then it is likely due to the spec requirements of 4K Blu Ray it may also include Dolby Atmos sound capability as well. Starwars was the first game to offer this on PC but only PC.

It does not have to offer native 4K Resolution to make games look better and to give people a reason to consider a 4K HDR based TV. If someone already has or is considering buying a 4K HDR TV then this as a console would make ALOT of sense.

That I think are pretty good points...
(btw streaming services already offer 4K with Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision on compatible TV's)

This from Eurogamer is just in...
 
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It's not even for that, doesn't the VR unit come with it's own external proc in a box that runs between the VR headset and the PS4? The PS4 can't even run VR without a co-processor.
Yep. The co-processor would still be needed with the more powerful "PS4k".
 
GT7 in 4k would be like a dream come true. But I don't really think it would be possible.

From an immersion aspect or one of possible enjoyment. I would expect the VR experience with 3D and fully positional based audio. Especially if used with comfy, good quality hi-fi stereo headphones to exceed your mentioned dream experience.

*Lets hope the audio is now up to Driveclub/Forza or other titles standards.
 
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Just by reading a handful of posts; I can assure you that I would never buy a new TV, a new upgraded system, special HDMI Cables or any other specific products to play a game in a resolution that probably wouldn't seem any different to me than 1080.

Unless I hit the lottery. Big time. :lol:
 
Just by reading a handful of posts; I can assure you that I would never buy a new TV, a new upgraded system, special HDMI Cables or any other specific products to play a game in a resolution that probably wouldn't seem any different to me than 1080.

Unless I hit the lottery. Big time. :lol:
It's all based on what you can afford obviously but the difference is quite dramatic to me, especially up close. You might not see much of a difference on a 32" monitor from 5 feet away for example, but if you sit 4 feet from a 60" tv while gaming like I do, the difference is huge. I haven't made the switch yet myself but I've experienced it and I like it.
 
Maybe it'd be a good idea to use this more powerful 4k PS4,5 on a full HD TV. It would be a bit of a waste but what if it allows you to play every single game at a rock solid 1080p 60fps? For games such as pCARS that fluctuate between 40 and 60 fps maybe would be an improvement.

I have no idea about the technical side of things but I'm guessing that those games could take advantage of the extra power, right? However, in cases such as Driveclub that is locked at 30 fps, would they be able to be patched so as to run at 60 fps in the PS4,5? Would that be possible?
 
It's all based on what you can afford obviously but the difference is quite dramatic to me, especially up close. You might not see much of a difference on a 32" monitor from 5 feet away for example, but if you sit 4 feet from a 60" tv while gaming like I do, the difference is huge. I haven't made the switch yet myself but I've experienced it and I like it.
Definitely not in my budget.

I think I would rather sit 50 feet away from a TV using VR technology anways.
 
It's all based on what you can afford obviously but the difference is quite dramatic to me, especially up close. You might not see much of a difference on a 32" monitor from 5 feet away for example, but if you sit 4 feet from a 60" tv while gaming like I do, the difference is huge. I haven't made the switch yet myself but I've experienced it and I like it.
Your not supposed to sit that close to a 60" television. :lol:

4K right now, and even in the next few years, is mainly a novelty for those that can afford it. I don't see there being many blockbuster great games, that are exclusively only 4K and for PS4.5. It's just such a small percentage of the market. Same goes if xb1 comes with a 4K console.

Same kind of goes for VR, although I think there will be a lot more people using that then buying expensive 4K televisions. I see both of these as novelties. I'm sure they both will be great, and are really cool. There just not enough people going to drop that kind of money, where it's going to affect the market and the way games are made. 👍
 
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