GT7 in 4K?

[Tired Tyres]

You can't compare a pc to a console. A console could be lower spec and still run at 4k@30fps because game are optimized for the platform. I know that it's not what we or at least what I want but it's still possible.

Oh come on! Yes optimisation does allow a console to punch above its weight verses a PC but that is a very long way away from that kind of capability!

 

[gtracedriver1]

May be only photomode. Probably PS5 or PS4K whatever they call it will be able to play PS4 games in 4K in some 5yrs from now

 

[NLxAROSA]

A console could be lower spec and still run at 4k@30fps because game are optimized for the platform.

I could go with this statement if:

There is a consistent lineup of games of equal complexity running 1080p/60FPS.
There is still room left in terms of resource usage.

Neither is the case today. There is exactly one game that does something similar to GT at 1080p/60FPS on PS4 and it's Project CARS. And it completely maxes out the hardware and it's struggling to maintain framerate in many area. The only other alternative is Driveclub and it runs at 30FPS. So UHD (4 times the pixels) at any rate is way out of reach.

Keep in mind that PS4 is not PS3, where developers needed to learn the platform to get the most out of it. PS4 is x86, where developers have been developing for years. So anyone expecting miracles is going to be disappointed.

 

[Samus]

By the way @Saidur_Ali I was searching for 4k on the forum for other reasons and stumbled on some rather....interesting predictions from yourself in the past.

The resolution of TVs will most likely stick to full hd for many years. Think of the generational leap as between PS1 and PS2. That is why next-gen will be so much better than this.

I did some maths on how fast the PSP2 will be graphically and it is bang on as good as the PS3 graphically.

The games on the PSP will most likely be ports of PS3 games so it will be as long as them.

The PS4 will be way more powerful than the PS3. Most games will run at 60FPS at 1920x1080 and that is what I guess Sony will be pushing along with 3D.

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So why do you think 4K won't make same step as 3D did? Seems in a year or so there will be a lot more 4K content.

(March 2014)

That is what you still think, I am very confident there will be games outputting at 4K. I'm confident due to hardware inside PS4.

I think 1080p will be the main target for these consoles as expected. I think there will be more 4K games than there will be 720p only games.

4K is not as taxing as quite a lot of people think. You can see your GPU playing 4K games quite well on YouTube. I do think though given performance of PS4, you will see it on say games that are probably low budget as strange as that sounds and also potentially in future in like sport games like FIFA. Shooters like new Killzone and Battlefield games, I don’t think we will see. GT might possibly have some 4K support as PDI seem to be into them kind of things. Maybe 4K rereleases will be something that will be pushed in the upcoming generation.

I also expect at least one more PS3 redesign still as long as they got over the hurdle to shrink Cell to 22nm.

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They are now in initial stages of supporting 4K games.

I am quite confident we will see some 4K games for PS4 in near future just using the one console.

(April 2013)

4K capability for PS4 is more or less a given. However games running at 4K will be rare, maybe PD will add some kind of 'Hi-Fi mode' for PS4 version of GT

 

[Saidur_Ali]

By the way @Saidur_Ali I was searching for 4k on the forum for other reasons and stumbled on some rather....interesting predictions from yourself in the past.







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(March 2014)









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(April 2013)

Are you sure you were searching for 4K for other reasons, how did you end up looking at PSP stuff.

Anyway thanks for bringing them up, shows I'm consistent over a long period of time with my views on things and still think I'm on course to be quite accurate with my predictions.

 

[Samus]

Are you sure you were searching for 4K for other reasons, how did you end up looking at PSP stuff.

Anyway thanks for bringing them up, shows I'm consistent over a long period of time with my views on things and still think I'm on course to be quite accurate with my predictions.

Consistent? There are many inconsistencies just in those quotes, let alone in comparison to what you say today.

You were quite inaccurate already with most of those statements.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Consistent? There are many inconsistencies just in those quotes, let alone in comparison to what you say today.

You were quite inaccurate already with most of those statements.

I hold them views today. Maybe "PSP2" wasn't that accurate, can't remember what information was available at the time but anyway Need For Speed Most Wanted was quite similar to console version IIRC.

I still think 1080p will stay for a long time (Over 5 years now since that post and counting so accurate).

There was a lot more 4K content a year later like Netflix, Amazon and BT.

I'm still confident they can do 4K on one PS4 as long as they enable its output and hopefully there will be developers making use of it. If there are games on a weaker device like Shield TV after getting enabled then don't see why something with much more GPU, memory and bandwidth power won't have any 4K games if enabled.

No new die shrink for PS3 retail release so no redesign. Wonder if they still are bothering about making it cheaper to produce or given up on it. PS Now makes use of PS3 hardware so might be useful for costs.

 

[Tornado]

I like how "the intial stages" have now reached the two year mark.

 

[Samus]

You claimed they were in the initial stage of supporting 4k games in 2013 and that we'd be seeing them in the near future. 3+ years and counting is not the near future. Wrong prediction.

If there are games on a weaker device like Shield TV after getting enabled then don't see why something with much more GPU, memory and bandwidth power won't have any 4K games if enabled.

Really? You think the Shield outputting basic Android games is comparable to full console games? Come on. You claim up there things like FIFA, Knack in a post I didn't quote and Gran Turismo.

Where are they? PS4 games in 4K is still 0.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I like how "the intial stages" have now reached the two year mark.

Maybe it will arrive soon on Soony PS4. Getting Friends notifications I think in next update, slowly getting there with features...

Cerny did say this probably three years ago now or near that: Link

“Personally, I’m very interested in 4K.

“We’re still in the initial stages of supporting 4Kx2K in games. Our focus is to provide for a solid Full HD experience"

You claimed they were in the initial stage of supporting 4k games in 2013 and that we'd be seeing them in the near future. 3+ years and counting is not the near future. Wrong prediction.



Really? You think the Shield outputting basic Android games is comparable to full console games? Come on. You claiming up there things like FIFA, Knack in a post I didn't quote and Gran Turismo.

Where are they? PS4 games in 4K is still 0.

It is what Cerny was saying. Given he showed off console, think he has good idea what is in the works. Don't see how that is wrong, it was more stating what has been said.

There are basic games on PS4 too. Impossible to release 4K games on PS4 without it supporting output. I've said about this before IIRC. PDI said the same to me as well recently.

 

[Samus]

Maybe it will arrive soon on Soony PS4. Getting Friends notifications I think in next update, slowly getting there with features...

Cerny did say this probably three years ago now or near that: Link

..and have said absolutely nothing about it since. There has been no technical displays of 4k on PS4, no demos, no talks of behind closed doors displays. There is literally nothing except the personal interest of the lead console designer in an off-hand statement 3 years ago to suggest 4k games are coming to the PS4. There is also still no proof that the hardware could "easily" do it as you constantly claim. Your only evidence to back that up is the age old "theoretical" performance of games.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

..and have said absolutely nothing about it since. There has been no technical displays of 4k on PS4, no demos, no talks of behind closed doors displays. There is literally nothing except the personal interest of the lead console designer in an off-hand statement 3 years ago to suggest 4k games are coming to the PS4. There is also still no proof that the hardware could "easily" do it as you constantly claim. Your only evidence to back that up is the age old "theoretical" performance of games.

Hardly surprising is it. Xbox One might get 4K games support one day too. Still plenty of time, focus on getting the basics right is more important IMO. Seems both going in direction of new hardware for better support at the moment so won't be surprised if more beefed-up but more efficient consoles come out in a year or two. They may still give glimpse of games on that resolution with original hardware, GT might be able to deliver that on PS4. PD might do 8K technical display with four PS4s. Seems so 2008 4K 60FPS for them.

 

[Tornado]

Really, Simon, it was an admirable effort, but for a "gotcha" post like that to work the target has to be capable of at least some level of introspection. Really, your best bet is to bookmark the post and bring it up next time he starts talking out of his ass about it like that thread in the computers subforum. Otherwise it is just as much of a waste of your time as it was trying to talk to Zer0.

 

[Samus]

Hardly surprising is it. Xbox One might get 4K games support one day too.

The console struggling to manage 1080p most of the time? Yeah, sure thing.

Still plenty of time, focus on getting the basics right is more important IMO.

The basics being "Most games will run at 60FPS at 1920x1080" you mean? Because yeah, that prediction still hasn't happened either yet, has it? This is rather simple x86 hardware, they are not suddenly going to unlock a huge jump in performance.

Seems both going in direction of new hardware for better support at the moment so won't be surprised if more beefed-up but more efficient consoles come out in a year or two. They may still give glimpse of games on that resolution with original hardware, GT might be able to deliver that on PS4. PD might do 8K technical display with four PS4s. Seems so 2008 4K 60FPS for them.

As I've pointed out multiple times, many probably directly to yourself, that demo is in no way comparable to real 4k and pretty much irrelevant. Each PS3 was outputting an upscaled 1080p image and they were joined together in projection. You could do the same yourself, only of course you wouldn't be able to manipulate the software to only output one corner of the game. It was also using textures and game assets not intended to be displayed at that resolution and didn't look great.

PD have not yet achieved 4k with one output of any hardware. As someone pointed out, they haven't even managed 1080p and fixed 60fps yet. You yourself just said it's better to get the basic right first, so why on earth would they be faffing around with 8k tech demos?

 

[CSLACR]

Given that in GT5,6 overuse of graphical power by PD (weather, etc) caused increased online lag, is there any legitimate reason 4k or 8k will negatively affect online gaming?
Or was that bad game design?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Really, Simon, it was an admirable effort, but for a "gotcha" post like that to work the target has to be capable of at least some level of introspection. Really, your best bet is to bookmark the post and bring it up next time he starts talking out of his ass about it like that thread in the computers subforum. Otherwise it is just as much of a waste of your time as it was trying to talk to Zer0.

Just need another "lucky break" right?

The console struggling to manage 1080p most of the time? Yeah, sure thing.



The basics being "Most games will run at 60FPS at 1920x1080" you mean? Because yeah, that prediction still hasn't happened either yet, has it? This is rather simple x86 hardware, they are not suddenly going to unlock a huge jump in performance.



As I've pointed out multiple times, many probably directly to yourself, that demo is in no way comparable to real 4k and pretty much irrelevant. Each PS3 was outputting an upscaled 1080p image and they were joined together in projection. You could do the same yourself, only of course you wouldn't be able to manipulate the software to only output one corner of the game. It was also using textures and game assets not intended to be displayed at that resolution and didn't look great.

PD have not yet achieved 4k with one output of any hardware. As someone pointed out, they haven't even managed 1080p and fixed 60fps yet. You yourself just said it's better to get the basic right first, so why on earth would they be faffing around with 8k tech demos?

Shield TV can do it like mentioned before so Xbox One should be able to do it if there is enough desire for it.

Have you got proof it isn't the case. Think there are a lot of games on PS4 especially low budget ones so would be interesting to see if most games indeed are.

I think that demonstration is more impressive given the time when done than if PDI were to get new GT game running 4K on PS4. Given the impressions, probably did look great at that time.

They will likely be thinking way ahead than just what will happen now (Me too, think there is massive scope to improve still. Found this article quite interesting (Happy that people like Kaz and head of AMD GPU division Raja are forward thinking): Link). 4K on one console and 8K demo with multiple consoles is something that might be done as early as this year IMO. Think they will like to carry on what they've been doing like every console they worked on so far, GT1 60Hz, PS2 "1080i", PS3 3D, 1080p 240Hz and 4K 60Hz Demonstration. PS4 may be 4K 30Hz/60Hz and 8K 30HZ/60Hz demonstration.

 

[Samus]

Shield TV can do it like mentioned before so Xbox One should be able to do it if there is enough desire for it.

Like I said already, it does it with low-grade Android games. I can't quite see a desire for those on Xbox One, and that isn't what you were talking about in your quotes.

Have you got proof it isn't the case. Think there are a lot of games on PS4 especially low budget ones so would be interesting to see if most games indeed are.

Proof of what? That most PS4 games aren't 1080p 60fps like you said?

http://uk.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_Native_Resolutions_and_Framerates

I'm not going to count them all but at best it looks 50/50 and the big first party titles are nearly all 1080p30.

I think that demonstration is more impressive given the time when done than if PDI were to get new GT game running 4K on PS4. Given the impressions, probably did look great at that time.

The only thing that was impressive is how they did the synchronisation. The actual final resolution wasn't.

They will likely be thinking way ahead than just what will happen now (Me too, think there is massive scope to improve still. Found this article quite interesting (Happy that people like Kaz and head of AMD GPU division Raja are forward thinking): Link). 4K on one console and 8K demo with multiple consoles is something that might be done as early as this year IMO. Think they will like to carry on what they've been doing like every console they worked on so far, GT1 60Hz, PS2 "1080i", PS3 3D, 1080p 240Hz and 4K 60Hz Demonstration. PS4 may be 4K 30Hz/60Hz and 8K 30HZ/60Hz demonstration.

You said that in 2013 wrt 4K.

 

[ImaRobot]

Have you got proof it hasn't then. Think there are a lot of games on PS4 especially low budget ones so would be interesting to see if most games indeed are.

http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_Native_Resolutions_and_Framerates

The ones that seem to try to achieve 1080px60fps are only the very major titles, while the other half seems to be games that are really not that taxing on the system, oddly enough. Some of the ones that are trying for that seem hit and miss in actually achieving it(the ones I have experience with being COD, PCars, Diablo), and they are all big name studios as well. Looking at that list, it really makes it seem like its a bit harder to achieve 1080p @ 60fps than you think, nevermind 4k.

Tree'd by @Samus

 

[CSLACR]

The more I read, the more pitiful current console hardware seems to be.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Like I said already, it does it with low-grade Android games. I can't quite see a desire for those on Xbox One, and that isn't what you were talking about in your quotes.



Proof of what? That most PS4 games aren't 1080p 60fps like you said?

http://uk.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_Native_Resolutions_and_Framerates

I'm not going to count them all but at best it looks 50/50 and the big first party titles are nearly all 1080p30.



The only thing that was impressive is how they did the synchronisation. The actual final resolution wasn't.



You said that in 2013 wrt 4K.

I was regarding Xbox One.

That is a very small list of games. How about this one: Link

I can't be bothered to look into it one by one but wouldn't be surprised if what I said over 5 years ago is quite true today.

Once enabled regarding 4K which may be this year. There isn't even a GT game yet on the console.

 

[ImaRobot]

I was regarding Xbox One.

That is a very small list of games. How about this one: Link

I can't be bothered to look into it one by one but wouldn't be surprised if what I said over 5 years ago is quite true today.

Once enabled regarding 4K which may be this year. There isn't even a GT game yet on the console.

Did you even bother looking at the list you posted? Half of that list you posted doesn't even have a release date. The list given is a gives a good picture of what is going on, and has a lot of major titles that have been in the game for a long time, showing that that it's a problem for the majority of developers.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Did you even bother looking at the list you posted? Half of that list you posted doesn't even have a release date. The list given is a gives a good picture of what is going on, and has a lot of major titles that have been in the game for a long time, showing that that it's a problem for the majority of developers.

It's all relevant and there a lot of released PS4 games which would be something to start on if anyone can be bothered that is.

 

[Samus]

I was regarding Xbox One.

That is a very small list of games. How about this one: Link

I can't be bothered to look into it one by one but wouldn't be surprised if what I said over 5 years ago is quite true today.

There is a lot you wouldn't be surprised with though, isn't there? Were you surprised Naughty Dog found 1080p60
"Really ****ing Hard" - http://www.gamespot.com/articles/getting-uncharted-4-to-run-at-60fps-really-f-king-/1100-6425090/

But I'm sure once Sony enable 4K output they'll be able to increase the resolution by 300% and still manage 30fps without problem, right?

Once enabled regarding 4K which may be this year. There isn't even a GT game yet on the console.

No, but there are hundreds of others and Sony continue to want to sell 4K TV sets. But still, they're not asking devs to output games at 4k nor are they "enabling" the PS4 to do so. You bring up other features like notifications that also aren't added but they aren't features that would greatly help them shift their other hardware.

I'm pretty sure @Tornado posed this question to you years ago but it still remains, if Sony could enable 4K output on PS4 why wouldn't they, given the huge boost it would obviously give their 4K TV range the last 3 years?

 

[ImaRobot]

It's all relevant and there a lot of released PS4 games which would be something to start on if anyone can be bothered that is.

Relevant to what? That you'll only accept data for a subject that you requested only if 100% of every game ever released, and that are not even released yet, have been tested?

It covers the vast majority of popular games, and the ones that are more known and gives a good picture of what major developers are actually achieving(or not.) Why would you choose to ignore it?

 

[Tornado]

Just need another "lucky break" right?

Am I supposed to be any more impressed that you remember that one time you spent an entire thread talking out of your ass and turned out to be right then I was when you tried to bring it up as proof of your "expertise" earlier in this same thread? Even Zer0 occasionally stumbled across something that was true. He was still a complete joke the other 99% of the time.

 

[avens]

For when one of the parties gets so obsessed with the discussion to go through all the PS4 games one by one: Remember that "60FPS@1080p" does not mean "stable 60 FPS" nor "rendered in 1080p".

In the Digital Foundry videos I've watched, out of the 3D games (not a 2D shooter or some non-taxing indie game) only Rocket League achieved that goal, that after several performance patches, while every single other game either didn't achieve stable 60 FPS (what's the point if it is going to drop to 40 all the time), and/or the game was rendered at a lower resolution than advertised and then was upscaled.

Out of the easy to compare games with the GT series, both Projects Cars and DriveClub failed at delivering stable 60 FPS and "real" 1080p.

DriveClub: 1080p, 30 FPS, perfectly stable. Runs as advertised.


Project Cars, after four patches that fixed performance and ghosting issues: 1080p, advertised as 60 fps but almost never is (55-59), and has dips to 40 fps especially when using the slider to remove ghosting. Does not run as advertised, even after patching.


Clearly GT's competition (racing games) couldn't achieve 60fps 1080p. Why we are talking about 4K is beyond me, as that is 66% more taxing than that.


tl;dr: It'd be more practical to start by listing just one 3D AAA game on the PS4 that meets those requirements. 60 FPS, stable, rendered at 1080p, not upscaled. Could be a Digital Foundry video, or any other site that runs similar tests. After that then we could discuss if 4K is even possible this generation in general.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

There is a lot you wouldn't be surprised with though, isn't there? Were you surprised Naughty Dog found 1080p60
"Really ****ing Hard" - http://www.gamespot.com/articles/getting-uncharted-4-to-run-at-60fps-really-f-king-/1100-6425090/



No, but there are hundreds of others and Sony continue to want to sell 4K TV sets. But still, they're not asking devs to output games at 4k nor are they "enabling" the PS4 to do so. You bring up other features like notifications that also aren't added but they aren't features that would greatly help them shift their other hardware.

I'm pretty sure @Tornado posed this question to you years ago but it still remains, if Sony could enable 4K output on PS4 and allow it to output 4K why wouldn't they, given the huge boost it would obviously give their 4K TV range?

No it wasn't a surprise they found it hard, more surprised they actually were trying to do 60FPS given level of graphics they were showing.

They haven't enabled output yet whether for media or games. Should be more complex than friends notifications. They've likely need to get UI to run at that resolution which might affect other things.

Relevant to what? That you'll only accept data for a subject that you requested only if 100% of every game ever released, and that are not even released yet, have been tested?

It covers the vast majority of popular games, and the ones that are more known and gives a good picture of what major developers are actually achieving(or not.) Why would you choose to ignore it?

January 2011 is my quote from. Regarding most games performance on future platform I don't know anything about specs wise. Will be interesting come end of this generation if indeed most games were which is the point.

 

[ImaRobot]

January 2011 is my quote from. Regarding most games performance on future platform I don't know anything about specs wise. Will be interesting come end of this generation if indeed most games were which is the point.

What does that have to do with you choosing to push aside the list because it doesn't have as many titles on it as the PS4 wiki? We are talking about current gen hardware hardly being able to achieve 1080p 60fps, yet you're saying 4k is possible on this gen.

 

[Samus]

But it's no big thing.....

It is no big thing, just need Sony to enable 4K output and I'm sure there will be games that make use of it.

Why is it taking so long? You also didn't answer my question regarding the 4K TVs.

 

[Tornado]

What does that have to do with you choosing to push aside the list because it doesn't have as many titles on it as the PS4 wiki? We are talking about current gen hardware hardly being able to achieve 1080p 60fps, yet you're saying 4k is possible on this gen.

Also ignoring that he said this not too long ago:

Cost of high performance hardware to do 4K or VR really well from off-the-shelf hardware looks likely to come down really quickly so $399-$499 price point should make for something really capable by say 2019-2020.