GT7 in 4K?

[Saidur_Ali]

What does that have to do with you choosing to push aside the list because it doesn't have as many titles on it as the PS4 wiki? We are talking about current gen hardware hardly being able to achieve 1080p 60fps, yet you're saying 4k is possible on this gen.

It has only a tiny number of games, interested in most games. Actually given Forza 6 Apex is coming out on PC soon, will be interesting if possible to play 4K with similar GPU as PS4. Might try it on my old PC one day.

But it's no big thing.....



Why is it taking so long? You also didn't answer my question regarding the 4K TVs.

PC can do it, it's not like it is going to be revolutionary.

Things take time to do. UC4 and PS4 GT games are yet to come out, been a while already. The new TVs themselves are probably better at viewing 4K content already than the original PS4 will likely ever be.

 

[Samus]

It has only a tiny number of games, interested in most games. Actually given Forza 6 Apex is coming out on PC soon, will be interesting if possible to play 4K with similar GPU as PS4. Might try it on my old PC one day.

PC can do it, it's not like it is going to be revolutionary.

Things take time to do. UC4 and PS4 GT games are yet to come out, been a while already. The new TVs themselves are probably better at viewing 4K content already than the original PS4 will likely ever be.

Ah, PC, is that a new console? I've not heard of it. Must be good.

Things take time, yes, but you claimed it was simple to do. I've honestly no idea what you're saying with your TV response, I'm talking about games. If Sony could say to customers "Buy our 4k TV to play 4k games on our 4k console" that would be a huge selling point for the TV, considering the otherwise lack of 4K content.

Why would 4K output therefore not be a huge priority, given it's just a matter of enabling it? It's not that they've not enabled it, they're not even talking about it and saying it's something on there minds right now.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Ah, PC, is that a new console? I've not heard of it. Must be good.

Things take time, yes, but you claimed it was simple to do. I've honestly no idea what you're saying with your TV response, I'm talking about games. If Sony could say to customers "Buy our 4k TV to play 4k games on our 4k console" that would be a huge selling point for the TV, considering the otherwise lack of 4K content.

Why would 4K output therefore not be a huge priority, given it's just a matter of enabling it? It's not that they've not enabled it, they're not even talking about it and saying it's something on there minds right now.

PC with similar GPU architecture can. Microsoft with Windows 10 are trying to make it console like.

Think direction they are heading is good if true, more powerful console that should mean most games will be able to run 4K and VR and at a higher quality than possible on original PS4. I much prefer it that way. It is also probably a huge priority if what has been said recently is true.

 

[Samus]

PC with similar GPU architecture can.

Think direction they are heading is good if true, more powerful console that should mean most games will be able to run 4K and VR and at a higher quality than possible on original PS4. I much prefer it that way. It is also probably a huge priority if what has been said recently is true.

Let me guess, if I question further you'll show me some YouTube videos of a HD7850 running some old games or low demand games at 4k which totally proves PS4 could do it?

You know what....

 

[ImaRobot]

It has only a tiny number of games, interested in most games.

It doesn't have a tiny number, its just that the list you posted on the PS4 wiki has every obscure, unknown, random, almost non existent game. Meanwhile, what you can take from that list is that even major developers seem to not be able to achieve that with comfort, and those that do seem to produce a problem in some way or another. You'd be able to assume that because the veterans have problems with it, than the smaller companies are likely going to have even more so.

All you're doing is choosing to ignore it because it goes against what you're saying, and proves that what you claim to be easy wont even be achievable, because most games can't even hit the mark below that.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

It doesn't have a tiny number, its just that the list you posted on the PS4 wiki has every obscure, unknown, random, almost non existent game. Meanwhile, what you can take from that list is that even major developers seem to not be able to achieve that with comfort, and those that do seem to produce a problem in some way or another. You'd be able to assume that because the veterans have problems with it, than the smaller companies are likely going to have even more so.

All you're doing is choosing to ignore it because it goes against what you're saying, and proves that what you claim to be easy wont even be achievable, because most games can't even hit the mark below that.

Key word is "most", that doesn't mean a small selection of games on that platform to me.

 

[ImaRobot]

Key word is "most", that doesn't mean a small selection of games on that platform to me.

It's seems more like you're only interested in reading things that might have the slightest chance in going with what you say, rather than go by facts that show that the industry just isn't capable at this time. Not surprised, coming from a guy who said that he can know how a car drives, by not driving it.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

@Samus & @ImaRobot, this seems appropriate:

 

[ImaRobot]

@Samus & @ImaRobot, this seems appropriate:

I mean, it has been for years, to be honest. I don't know why I get sucked into it again and again. Delusional is an understatement.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

It's seems more like you're only interested in reading things that might have the slightest chance in going with what you say, rather than go by facts that show that the industry just isn't capable at this time. Not surprised, coming from a guy who said that he can know how a car drives, by not driving it.

If something I said over 5 years ago has chance of being proven right going by the facts then I don't see what is wrong with what I'm saying.

@Samus & @ImaRobot, this seems appropriate:

It is indeed...

 

[Scaff]

It is what Cerny was saying.

When?

I find that odd given that he stated that we would not see 4K gaming on the PS4 (back in 2013).

http://ps4daily.com/2013/04/4k-gaming-on-playstation-4/

 

[Tornado]

If you move the goalposts enough, anything can be true.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

When?

I find that odd given that he stated that we would not see 4K gaming on the PS4 (back in 2013).

http://ps4daily.com/2013/04/4k-gaming-on-playstation-4/

You can see link to it in my post you quoted.

If you move the goalposts enough, anything can be true.

As far as I can tell, I'm not the one moving the goalposts. Changing the meaning of most is.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

As far as I can tell, I'm not the one moving the goalposts.

Crazy people also can't tell that they're crazy.

 

[Scaff]

You can see link to it in my post you quoted.

Did you follow it to the original source?

I only ask as the headline on your source is very missleading. He did not specify a system when talking about 4K gaming at all.

Cerny: hm…(lol). Personally, I’m very interested in 4K

We’re still in the initial stages of supporting 4Kx2K in games. Our focus is to provide for a solid FullHD experience. We can secure the display buffer for Game and OS separately, and can provide for independent scaling of both as well. (Regarding 4K) We can provide an extremely smooth user interface.

If we consider purely memory bandwidth, with 4K, securing 2 displays worth of display buffer requires 10GB/sec. That just for simply displaying.
This is our simple answer for why we’re focusing on just the FullHD experience.

Emphasis is mine, they are focusing just on Full HD, you have to make some quite wild assumptions to turn that into 4K PS4 games are on the horizon given that its the exact opposite of what he said (unless Full HD is now 4K).

 

[avens]

@Saidur_Ali, could you show us one AAA game (comparable to the GT series in terms of being taxing) that on the PS4 runs at stable 60 fps and at 1080p (no upscaling no interlacing)?

After that we can talk about 4K.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Crazy people also can't tell that they're crazy.

So you might be crazy.

Would have thought sometime between Primary school to University, some teacher would tell me that I'm crazy in that sense by now instead of getting praised. Did notice this in life so far, much easier to chat about stuff with people on similar wavelength.

Did you follow it to the original source?

I only ask as the headline on your source is very missleading. He did not specify a system when talking about 4K gaming at all.

Cerny: hm…(lol). Personally, I’m very interested in 4K

We’re still in the initial stages of supporting 4Kx2K in games. Our focus is to provide for a solid FullHD experience. We can secure the display buffer for Game and OS separately, and can provide for independent scaling of both as well. (Regarding 4K) We can provide an extremely smooth user interface.

If we consider purely memory bandwidth, with 4K, securing 2 displays worth of display buffer requires 10GB/sec. That just for simply displaying.
This is our simple answer for why we’re focusing on just the FullHD experience.

Emphasis is mine, they are focusing just on Full HD, you have to make some quite wild assumptions to turn that into 4K PS4 games are on the horizon given that its the exact opposite of what he said (unless Full HD is now 4K).

Initial stages of supporting 4Kx2K in games, this was said before console was launched. It is clear to me they will focus on 1080p experience though. It is a translation of original source. I would be surprised if they did focus on 4K instead then given it is not a very powerful console. 2016 now, wonder what their plans are. Do find prospect of new updated console exciting.

@Saidur_Ali, could you show us one AAA game (comparable to the GT series in terms of being taxing) that on the PS4 runs at stable 60 fps and at 1080p (no upscaling no interlacing)?

After that we can talk about 4K.

Don't know how good pCARS does it but think Assetto Corsa has a chance of delivering that.

 

[Scaff]

Initial stages of supporting 4Kx2K in games, this was said before console was launched. It is clear to me they will focus on 1080p experience though. It is a translation of original source. I would be surprised if they did focus on 4K instead then given it is not a very powerful console. 2016 now, wonder what their plans are. Do find prospect of new updated console exciting.

And nothing they have said since has changed that view, nor have the titles that have been released, with 1080p native 60fps titles still being the exception rather than the norm (Project Cars is 1080p native, but its not locked 60fps and while the drops are not great they do happen at times).

That's without the issue that the PS4 still runs HDMI 1.4, now while that could be sidesteps via firmware (to emulate HDMI 2.0) that doesn't come for free, so hitting 4k while also having to emulate HDMI 2.0 makes it even more of an ask (which is why they have said its possible for video and pictures).

To date all of the information we have from Sony is that 4K for games is not going to happen on the PS4.

 

[TS050]

@Saidur_Ali

Oh my god!

Can't you just put a sock in it and accept the fact we aren't even close to 4K/60fps gaming on a PS4?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

And nothing they have said since has changed that view, nor have the titles that have been released, with 1080p native 60fps titles still being the exception rather than the norm (Project Cars is 1080p native, but its not locked 60fps and while the drops are not great they do happen at times).

That's without the issue that the PS4 still runs HDMI 1.4, now while that could be sidesteps via firmware (to emulate HDMI 2.0) that doesn't come for free, so hitting 4k while also having to emulate HDMI 2.0 makes it even more of an ask (which is why they have said its possible for video and pictures).

To date all of the information we have from Sony is that 4K for games is not going to happen on the PS4.

4K for video and photos they also said but no sign of that yet as 4K output is not enabled.

HDMI 1.4 can run 4K UHD 30HZ and 4K UHD 60Hz YUV420. Don't think it's possible to emulate HDMI 2.0.

 

[JKgo]

...The last few pages of this thread had me like:

 

[avens]

Don't know how good pCARS does it but think Assetto Corsa has a chance of delivering that.

So it's zero then?

In the previous page I posted how Project Cars runs, and it's not stable 60 FPS at 1/3 of the resolution of what 4K is.

 

[Scaff]

4K for video and photos they also said but no sign of that yet as 4K output is not enabled.

So no sign of that at all, but 4K games are just around teh corner! Do you not see the contradiction in what you're claiming?

HDMI 1.4 can run 4K UHD 30HZ and 4K UHD 60Hz YUV420.

The first one of which is going to limit games to 30fps and the second reduces the Chroma and as a result hits colour range and depth.

Don't think it's possible to emulate HDMI 2.0.

Why not? Its not like physical changes need to be made, it throughput of data and error checking speed that are the main differences between HDMI 1.4 and 2.0, hence the reason why NVidia was able to get 4K@60Hz by reducing Chroma to hit the bandwidth limit. Its not as if additional processor resource could not be used to emulate that (and some of the bandwidth isn't HDCP checked by the HDMI chip so doesn't strictly need to pass through it.

However what you seem to be doing if you are correct and it can't be emulated is undermining your own argument that we will see 4K gaming on the PS4, particularly GT:S (unless 30fps or lower graphical quality are on the cards).

 

[CSLACR]

Don't think it's possible to emulate HDMI 2.0.

Interesting, the one thing I can find that Sony did say, you don't think is possible.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

So it's zero then?

In the previous page I posted how Project Cars runs, and it's not stable 60 FPS at 1/3 of the resolution of what 4K is.

Use my PS4 mainly for Sky TV, haven't kept track of games much.

So no sign of that at all, but 4K games are just around teh corner! Do you not see the contradiction in what you're claiming?


The first one of which is going to limit games to 30fps and the second reduces the Chroma and as a result hits colour range and depth.


Why not? Its not like physical changes need to be made, it throughput of data and error checking speed that are the main differences between HDMI 1.4 and 2.0, hence the reason why NVidia was able to get 4K@60Hz by reducing Chroma to hit the bandwidth limit. Its not as if additional processor resource could not be used to emulate that (and some of the bandwidth isn't HDCP checked by the HDMI chip so doesn't strictly need to pass through it.

However what you seem to be doing if you are correct and it can't be emulated is undermining your own argument that we will see 4K gaming on the PS4, particularly GT:S (unless 30fps or lower graphical quality are on the cards).

It may well be, it may not. It might be around the corner regarding new hardware announcement though.

Yep but not total disaster.

Hardware needs to be capable, as far as I'm aware the PS4 HDMI chip isn't. Hopefully like Nvidia they can support 4K 60Hz with same limitations.

 

[FS7]

Frankly I'd rather have triple screen support on a single console than 4K.

 

[Scaff]

It may well be, it may not. It might be around the corner regarding new hardware announcement though.

Then its not a PS4 is it.

Yep but not total disaster.

Its still a big if given that they are yet to get to 1080p native.

Hardware needs to be capable, as far as I'm aware the PS4 HDMI chip isn't. Hopefully like Nvidia they can support 4K 60Hz with same limitations.

What hardware? Its perfectly possible to work around this as I have explained and you have simply ignored, even Sony themselves have hinted at it. The issue is throughput on the chip and not all of the throughput needs to go via the chip (anything non HDCP).

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Then its not a PS4 is it.


Its still a big if given that they are yet to get to 1080p native.


What hardware? Its perfectly possible to work around this as I have explained and you have simply ignored, even Sony themselves have hinted at it. The issue is throughput on the chip and not all of the throughput needs to go via the chip (anything non HDCP).

Improved PS4.

Yep.

Hardware is not HDMI 2.0 capable. If it was, would have update so it is fully compliant. I'm saying it may be possible for 4K 60Hz YUV420 which is what the HDMI 1.4b should have enough bandwidth for. IIRC Sony managed to get 3D working through HDMI 1.3 on PS3 although with some limitations. If they enable 4K output, hopefully they have 60Hz YUV420 option.

 

[Scaff]

Improved PS4.

Which is then not the same PS4 as I own, and given the response from the buying public to that kind of thing in the past, it would be ab utterly stupid move.

Yep.

Yet you have been talking about this not being a big issue, which one is it?

Hardware is not HDMI 2.0 capable. If it was, would have update so it is fully compliant. I'm saying it may be possible for 4K 60Hz YUV420 which is what the HDMI 1.4b should have enough bandwidth for. IIRC Sony managed to get 3D working through HDMI 1.3 on PS3 although with some limitations. If they enable 4K output, hopefully they have 60Hz YUV420 option.

Are you actually reading what is being posted? Why do you think I talked about emulating it? Mentioned routing non-HDSP functions outside of the chip?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Which is then not the same PS4 as I own, and given the response from the buying public to that kind of thing in the past, it would be ab utterly stupid move.



Yet you have been talking about this not being a big issue, which one is it?



Are you actually reading what is being posted? Why do you think I talked about emulating it? Mentioned routing non-HDSP functions outside of the chip?

I personally would quite like to upgrade to one if it is ever made. Likely would be more energy efficient to play games at same resolution.

Still an if after all.

Think it will be running natively.