GT7 Penalty System
- Thread starter Wiretillidie
- 172 comments
- 41,405 views
- 334
- Rochester NY
It is basically f1 rules.
I dont understand the complaining by bros over gt penalty system, its more often than not fair and right. I have never received a penalty I did not know was coming or did not deserve (altho some of the track limit/yellow flag ones make me annoyed).
Alot of brodjust are not self aware on track and think they did nothing wrong. If you you truly feel that way record your penalties and upload them. I would say GT gets it right in my case 9/10 times, allowing for sometimes goofy track limits like the last turn in spain
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
So basically reduce the already far too low payouts for entering online races... Nvm the victim is usually off worse when getting pushed out of the track.
@NickGuy Nothing much has changed from GT Sport when it comes to incorrect penalties, all this still happens
GT Sport turned them off since PD couldn't figure it out, now they simply turned it back on for GT7.
It might be a little less sensitive with lower penalty amounts as in that video, but that's what PD has been doing all the years in GT Sport. Tweak the penalty amounts and force of contact needed to trigger them while alternating 'detection' between car going off track, touch a wall or losing a position.
I see zero evidence that the penalty system now looks at who caused the incident. It only works correctly when the instigator receives a clear advantage, although it still sometimes fails at that since track limits are a mess as well. It is very easy to manipulate the penalty system and it triggers when any touch is caused by lag while there isn't even any advantage to any one.
My car never touched his on his screen, but his car stalled on mine. Penalty.
If it's more often fair, then you're the one doing the bad driving
- 334
- Rochester NY
I dont get a lot of penalties, but when I do I knew they were coming. I dont ram people, i stay in the lines, and i usually stick to the racing line. I dont divebomb, and I still do pretty well as I have won once in each daily race 6 times so far. It’s really not hard to avoid penalties. I didnt play gt sport but in the gt7 clip you posted, yeah…you hit the guy. Sure it may have been lag but the hit still happened so thats not the penalty systems fault
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
The thing is, I did not hit him on his screen. Lag caused his car to stall on mine. His car was not affected, I'm the one losing time here because of a lagged stalled car, plus get a penalty on top. Why doesn't the penalty system see the collision only happened on one console, and the hit party was not actually hit.
I've had the reverse happen as well, never any contact on my screen, yet my car lagged on their screen and I get a penalty for 'hitting' another car. Looking at the replay, yep the other car did receive a speed increase out of nowhere. No touch on my side, yet when watching his replay my car would have hit him.
This basic issue has been in GT Sport since the beginning. Why can't PD solve such a simple problem. The game 'tells' on you anyway when your lagged car hits a car on someone else's screen, yet it won't cross check whether the contact happened on both machines to rule out lag. What PD did eventually add is that the one with the most lag to the server gets the benefit of the doubt dumping the penalty on the person with a better connection to the server.
Just one of the many problems with this system an it doesn't help the server used for GT7 on ps5 generally only gives me 3 bars as well as everyone else in the race. While GT Sport gave me 5 bars on ps5.
I've had the reverse happen as well, never any contact on my screen, yet my car lagged on their screen and I get a penalty for 'hitting' another car. Looking at the replay, yep the other car did receive a speed increase out of nowhere. No touch on my side, yet when watching his replay my car would have hit him.
This basic issue has been in GT Sport since the beginning. Why can't PD solve such a simple problem. The game 'tells' on you anyway when your lagged car hits a car on someone else's screen, yet it won't cross check whether the contact happened on both machines to rule out lag. What PD did eventually add is that the one with the most lag to the server gets the benefit of the doubt dumping the penalty on the person with a better connection to the server.
Just one of the many problems with this system an it doesn't help the server used for GT7 on ps5 generally only gives me 3 bars as well as everyone else in the race. While GT Sport gave me 5 bars on ps5.
Honestly, You can't defend the penalty system. It clearly needs a lot of work still, and there are plenty of examples out there of the game either not giving out penalties to an offender, or penalizing someone who was absolutely not at fault. Here's a clip of 4 separate incidents that I've recorded recently which are completely indefensible.
Clip 1.) Guy serves his penalty, then gets rammed from behind by 2 different drivers and gets a 4 second collision penalty even though they rammed him.
Clip 2.) I get rammed off the track by 2 separate individuals at the final chicane of Catalunya and get a track limits penalty, even though I got pushed off the track and couldn't do anything about that...
Clip 3.) Guy ahead of me misses his braking point on the final chicane of Spa, goes off the track, re-joins the track directly in front of me to go into the pit lane causing a collision, but I end up getting a 5 second penalty for his bad driving...In a real life race, it 100% would not happen that way.
Clip 4.) Guy blocks and rams me off the track to prevent me from passing. The game doesn't give him a penalty at all..
- 1,245
- Spain
Hot take.
The penalty system is better mysterious, because if there were obvious rules in place then certain players would just learn to exploit them, further running the experience for others.
Penalties given out for 'nearly nothing' means that everyone has to be on their best behaviour, even if sometimes the honest driver gets punished.
The penalty system is better mysterious, because if there were obvious rules in place then certain players would just learn to exploit them, further running the experience for others.
Penalties given out for 'nearly nothing' means that everyone has to be on their best behaviour, even if sometimes the honest driver gets punished.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
There are obvious rules in place and it does get exploited. Just tap a car then tap a wall or run off track and the other car gets a penalty. The system simply penalizes the one it thinks got an advantage from contact. The advantage can be a speed increase (get rammed from behind), speed decrease (contact in a braking zone to the apex), gaining a position (defending car turns in on you, now you can't complete the pass or you get a penalty), or simply be the survivor (offender takes himself out, or leaves the track either by going too fast or intentional to give you a penalty)
Hence the better you are in control of your car, the more likely it is you get the penalty when getting rammed.
2 posts up, Clip one: The car that served the penalty is back up to speed, gets hit by 2 cars going too fast for the corner. He takes the corner normally, thus gains position(s) and gets a penalty.
Clip two: the classic exploit. Hit a car then shortcut the chicane. After contact you have a 3 sec window where ignoring track limit penalties don't trigger and going off track gives the other car a penalty. However here no contact penalty is given since both cars went off track, so both get 0.5 sec track limit penalty. The 3rd car gets a 4 sec penalty for making contact while passing, that one is justified.
Clip three: simple, contact, gain position, penalty.
Clip four: The penalty system doesn't see an advantage here, no positions changed, both lose speed in the incident. Side swipes on the straights are usually exempt from penalties for unknown reasons. That is indeed the mysterious part
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- 1,174
- Phoenix, AZ
- MonyB
By the end of GTS, the penalty system was essentially turned off. The only penalties you'd see were track limit penalties for 0.5-1.0 sec and barrier penalties for 1.5 sec. I wasn't around for the launch of GTS but reportedly contact penalties would be 10 sec when they first introduced it. When I started playing online, it was common to see 2-5 sec penalties being issued to the person on the receiving end of a ram or divebomb.
Basically, they've turned contact penalties back on with GT7.
We can agree to disagree then. While that may be your singular experience, it is indeed most certainly the norm for situations like I've displayed above to happen, and it does happen all the time with plenty of documented evidence online to support that. This lack of refinement in the system makes the penalty system a 50/50 gamble whether or not the offender takes punishment, or the victim takes punishment, and like Sven mentioned, people can and have been gaming the system in order to screw other people over in order to grief/gain an advantage. I've been seeing plenty of this online since GT7's release, and the clips above don't even begin to scratch the surface of all of them.
With penalty times as severe as they can be, and penalty serving zones on certain tracks being harsh, this is a massive detriment, or even race destroying to someone who was wrongly accused and just trying to drive clean.
There's a reason why PD disabled penalties in GT Sport after a while. It's because the system is fundamentally broken, and there haven't been any improvements made since then.
- 22
- Hampshire
- Cinerus
So had a fun penalty in one race, which annoyed me cause it was caused by another driver overtaking me during a yellow flag and then giving me the place back, which then meant I overtook him, and the system handing me the penalty instead of them, when they overtook me first.
Then another race I got a penalty cause a driver turned in on me when I had the inside line of the corner and was ahead. The game decided I needed to get a "cause a collision" penalty for that one, still scratching my head on that one, cause the other driver went into me.
Then another race I got a penalty cause a driver turned in on me when I had the inside line of the corner and was ahead. The game decided I needed to get a "cause a collision" penalty for that one, still scratching my head on that one, cause the other driver went into me.
- 1,167
- United States
- Grand_Slammin
If only the game taught anything, literally ANYTHING, about driving lines or right of way, or anything. The new “safety” video doesn’t even mention that such a concept exists! I’m new to driving and would love to learn the finer points and thought the game would teach me. But as with any video game these days, there are no instructions and they expect you to go to another source to learn how to play.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
There are brief instructions in Beyond the Apex
For more info on racing rules this is a good summary
The rules of racing
The Formula 1 message boards have recently been abuzz with discussion of the Rosberg/Hamilton collision at Spa 2014. From these discussions it has emerged that many fans are not well acquainted wit…
f1metrics.wordpress.com
Kinda pointless to teach rules the game doesn't enforce nor applies to the AI :/
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Beyond the Apex is a joke as well, the overtaking section is one page with the only advise to out brake your opponent...
Most overtaking happens at the end of long straights. This is because you can utilise the huge change in speed to your advantage, so overtaking here has a high rate of success.
When pursuing your rival, it is often effective to rattle their nerves by going tail-to-nose, getting right up behind them, and then going side-by-side.
They actually encourage going tail-to-nose in a laggy environment
The two examples for overtaking in GT7
The classic dive, assuming the black car sheepishly drives slowly on the outside.
The
This method prioritises acceleration out of the corner and overtaking by crossing your driving lines. Block your rival by making it look like you are taking the inside line of the corner and then cross their line as you accelerate out of the corner.
I'm guessing this is what they're trying to get at, the switchback. Not gonna work if you're behind at turn in lol.
Although far more common is the red car going deep trying to overtake, the blue car switching back to immediately regain the position at corner exit. Or the red car hugging the inside blocking switchback attempts.
Most overtaking happens at the end of long straights. This is because you can utilise the huge change in speed to your advantage, so overtaking here has a high rate of success.
When pursuing your rival, it is often effective to rattle their nerves by going tail-to-nose, getting right up behind them, and then going side-by-side.
They actually encourage going tail-to-nose in a laggy environment
The two examples for overtaking in GT7
The classic dive, assuming the black car sheepishly drives slowly on the outside.
The
This method prioritises acceleration out of the corner and overtaking by crossing your driving lines. Block your rival by making it look like you are taking the inside line of the corner and then cross their line as you accelerate out of the corner.
I'm guessing this is what they're trying to get at, the switchback. Not gonna work if you're behind at turn in lol.
Although far more common is the red car going deep trying to overtake, the blue car switching back to immediately regain the position at corner exit. Or the red car hugging the inside blocking switchback attempts.
- 1,322
- United Kingdom
- rodgers1
Today twice in the daily races I picked up two unavoidable penalties for incidents which were not my fault.
Both times a car goes of the track and as they rejoin they hit me. And it’s full of hit me, yet I’m the driver who picks up the 2 second penalty. How? How is that even possible?
Both times a car goes of the track and as they rejoin they hit me. And it’s full of hit me, yet I’m the driver who picks up the 2 second penalty. How? How is that even possible?
- 1,565
- United Kingdom
Picture 1 what the hell? The car isn’t alongside and they’re instructing people to send it down the inside in the braking zone when the lead car has already committed to turn in. I can’t believe this is their official guidance.Beyond the Apex is a joke as well, the overtaking section is one page with the only advise to out brake your opponent...
Most overtaking happens at the end of long straights. This is because you can utilise the huge change in speed to your advantage, so overtaking here has a high rate of success.
When pursuing your rival, it is often effective to rattle their nerves by going tail-to-nose, getting right up behind them, and then going side-by-side.
They actually encourage going tail-to-nose in a laggy environment
The two examples for overtaking in GT7
The classic dive, assuming the black car sheepishly drives slowly on the outside.
The
This method prioritises acceleration out of the corner and overtaking by crossing your driving lines. Block your rival by making it look like you are taking the inside line of the corner and then cross their line as you accelerate out of the corner.
I'm guessing this is what they're trying to get at, the switchback. Not gonna work if you're behind at turn in lol.
Although far more common is the red car going deep trying to overtake, the blue car switching back to immediately regain the position at corner exit. Or the red car hugging the inside blocking switchback attempts.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
It seems this is the instruction manual for the AI :/ That is exactly how they attempt to overtake, dive on the inside or on the outside. It works for the AI since their cars are on rails and any contact means you can't steer anymore and go off...
Does Kaz actually race or is that just some fable? Hard to believe this is all the race guidance the game offers.
I guess he does actually race, although the video is unavailable for me
Onboard with Yamauchi at the Nurburgring 24h Race
As you may recall, GT series creator Kazunori Yamauchi joined the Team World Car Awards for the 24-Hour Nurburgring race just a few weeks ago. Despite some mechanical troubles, they finished fourth in their class, with Yamauchi himself setting the team's second-fastest lap at 9:48. Check out on-boar
www.gtplanet.net
- 409
- Canada
- Zero_to_oblivion
While the penalty system isn't perfect, there are things that can be done to mitigate the chances of the game issuing you a penalty - evasive driving.
Clip 1 - The racer in this one deserves the penalty. They know they're going to be forced to slow down, but instead of staying left, they go to the right, into the racing line. The driver should have stayed left as to not impede other cars. The person that hit him quite likely did so accidentally, I'd assume they were focused on defending the car behind OR the car behind didn't give them room to avoid the contact. Either way you've got a very slow car where it shouldn't be.
Clip 2 - while I agree that the penalty wasn't deserved, the track limit penalties are easily avoided in this situation by braking. Although you're pushed wide, the game will assess whether you gained benefit or not, so the easiest way to avoid these penalties is to brake. Not only does it reduce the chance of you gaining from the contact, but it makes it very apparent that you're trying to avoid going off track.
Clip 3 - I cringed when I watched this one. While we can all see that the driver in front loses control and makes a dumb decision to cut across track, that's the problem - we can see it. You should have stepped on the brakes hard to avoid contact, if there was contact while under braking, you're a lot less likely to get the penalty for contact. As there was only a blip of braking, the game may assume the contact is intentional, awarding you the penalty for it as you didn't do everything in your ability to avoid the contact.
Players may think it's dumb to have to employ evasive maneuvers in a game to avoid a penalty, but in my experience it helps a lot to avoid the the dumb penalties.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Just want to say that has zero influence on getting penalties. All the game sees is, there was contact, one of the cars lost a position, by going into the pit in this instance. I've still gotten penalties by braking so hard I'm practically stopped, the other car still ahead but cutting the track, triggering a penalty for me regardless. And I've also had an instance where I accidentally punted an early braker off track, took the position and did not get a penalty. Seems almost that doing it like you mean it has a lower chance of getting a penalty lol.
Hindsight is always 20:20. Yes we can see the car going wide, but normally you assume he will go left instead of cut over to pit. By the time it becomes clear where the blue car wants to go, it's too late.
And yep, GT with penalties is drive to survive. It's not a race, it's either keep your distance to all cars or get the occasional / frequent undeserved penalty to ruin your race. Which also leads to DR B being cleaner than DR A while SR remains the lesser indication whether a driver races by the rules or gambles with the penalty system.
- 210
- United States
Love it when you get a penalty for ignoring a yellow flag.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
It's all very similar to the infamous 1.55 update in GT Sport
Maybe some tweaks to the penalty values but the conditions for handing out a penalty, someone losing a position and/or going off track, seem the same. Only looking at the outcome, not how or where it happened. It's still the same old, we think you got an advantage compared to the others involved in contact, you get a penalty. Advantage can be as small as getting a speed increase from bump drafting, or a speed decrease from a brake check at the apex (which the game still sees as braking zone)
- 1,565
- United Kingdom
Well the penalty system, as inconsistent as it is has definitely made interlagos a completely different proposition. The usual drive down the grass in the right hand side and push you out the way isn’t an option anymore.
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