GT7: PS4 makes incredible difference - Kaz

[Shahar]

On the subject of how many cars on track GT7 could or should support, I guess there's a couple of different scenarios to accomodate. For most tracks something in the area of 24-32 will be more than enough as more would just be clogging the track. For the long tracks like Le Mans (56 cars in the 24 hours) Nürburgring (~160 in 2014) or Sierra (or dare I mention course-maker tracks), one can imagine more cars being possible, and I'm convinced the PS4 could support more, that is, if PD doesn't go overboard with the physics-, weather-, damage- and AI-model. "What, we have 16 times the memory and 16 times the bus-speed of the PS3? Let's make everything 20 times more complex!!"

However, there's also Online Mode that needs to be supported. I have no idea what the major problem with GT6's online gameplay is, i.e. why they cannot achieve a stable experience with 16 players without invisibility of some players while others can see them. Maybe it's simply bad code or it has to do with the PS3's shortcomings. One has to hope the latter, because otherwise the chances of stable rooms with 24 or more players are very slim indeed. And 24 is the minimum they should go for, in my opinion. After all, they were talking about lobbies of 32 people with 16 concurrently driving before GT5 came out...

The problem with the online is that the PS3 was the first to have full online compatibility, And you know that the first device isn't perfect.I belive the people Sony have learned alot since 2007 and the PS4 will perform much better.
A device needs alot of power and memory to run online because the data takes time to even reach to the Playstation , when it needs to be analyzed and displayed.

Ill Explain using an example:
Imagine two PS3s in an opposite side of the earth in an online room.
Now the data has to travel from one PS3 Through optic cables to the second PS3 ( ignore the short way between the cable , the internet provider and the second PS3) ,a distance about ~20,000km
The data travels at the speed of light so the time takes to the data to reach the second PS3 is:
(20,000 km)(1000 meters in on Km)/(299,792,458 m/s)=~0.066 seconds.


Even if we ignore proccesing time we still get 0.066 seconds which is too much for a smooth experience.
Not just "Not so smooth expeirnce" but a very bad one.

Imagine our two people racing at fuji speedway:
They are at the end of the main street , one of them draft behind the second men.
The distance between them is 10 meters and they are both going at 250 km/h
Then the first men starts to brake , the data about the first men braking hasn't reached to the second PS3.
So the second men gets the data in a 0.06 seconds delay, at that time he already crashed into the back of the first men. But the data about the crash hasn't reach the first PS3 so see the crash in a 0.6 seconds delay in which time he was breaking normally. This is a lag.

So the PS3 need to try and predict what will happen using a very complex algorithem , this takes power and time and sometimes its just can't keep up.
The PS4 is has more processing power so it can predict what will happen faster .And if PD will improve the algorithem so it could be more efficient , we will get even smother game experience.

 

[Nooboogering]

Because not going with the flow of the times PD will end up like Blackberry, and many other companies before them WHY! Change that's why not saying you got to change everything that's just stupid, but you got these other racing games putting in features that GT only just started doing recently, and some that still haven't been done (livery editor).

Like I said if you don't want to get left behind you change with the rest of them.

Get left behind on the Playstation?

Will Forza get left behind on the XBox?

PD should put features that other racing games have so people can complain it is not good enough? That's a trend I can see.

I hope if and when they decide to put a livery editor, it makes me drive faster and win (nearly) every online race.

As @Zuku alludes to, 15 years in the tech business is like a century in most others. Just a few years ago a Blackberry was the cellphone and 15 years ago 1080p flatscreen tv's in every home were a pipe dream and high definition gaming was a fantasy. What PD did 15 years ago was wonderful, but this is 2014 not 1999. In the tech business you can't rest on your laurels because they don't exist, everything now is, "what have you done for me lately". The rest of the sim driving/racing world has lept right over the GT series in just a couple of years so that in objective terms, GT6 is now at the bottom rung as far as sim racing/driving goes in just about every category that matters other than car and track count. GT has lots of stuff, like a buffet, and not much more.

What is this lots of stuff that GT has? I have read all about the stuff they don't have.

 

[snowgt]

The problem with the online is that the PS3 was the first to have full online compatibility, And you know that the first device isn't perfect.I belive the people Sony have learned alot since 2007 and the PS4 will perform much better.
Also you need alot of power and memory to run online because the data takes time to even reach to the Playstation , when it needs to be analyzed and displayed.

Ill Explain using an example:
Imagine two PS3s in an opposite side of the earth in an online room.
Now the data has to travel from one PS3 Through optic cables to the second PS3 ( ignore the short way between the cable , the internet provider and the second PS3) ,a distance about ~20,000km
The data travels at the speed of light so the time takes to the data to reach the second PS3 is:
(20,000 km)(1000 meters in on Km)/(299,792,458 m/s)=~0.066 seconds.


Even if we ignore proccesing time we still get 0.066 seconds which is too much for a smooth experience.
Not just "Not so smooth expeirnce" but a very bad one.

Imagine our two people racing at fuji speedway:
They are at the end of the main street , one of them draft behind the second men.
The distance between them is 10 meters and they are both going at 250 km/h
Then the first men starts to brake , the data about the first men braking hasn't reached to the second PS3.
So the second men gets the data in a 0.06 seconds delay, at that time he already crashed into the back of the first men. But the data about the crash hasn't reach the first PS3 so see the crash in a 0.6 seconds delay in which time he was breaking normally. This is a lag.

So the PS3 need to try and predict what will happen using a very complex algorithem , this takes power and time and sometimes its just can't keep up.
The PS4 is has more processing power so it can predict what will happen faster .And if PD will improve the algorithem so it could be more efficient , we will get even smother game experience.

I agree with what you say, but that's just lag. I have not heard a good explanation about the invisibility issues though, and those are by far the worst. How can it be that you can see someone in the lobby, and once you get on track they are not visible for you, but for all the others in the room? How can it be that someone disappears from the track 1 car length ahead of you in a race, while everyone else continues to see him?

These issues should have been sorted in GT5 and 1 year after GT6-release we're still trying to cope with this. Online races are getting delayed with people leaving the lobby and reconnecting only for others to suddenly vanish in the meantime. As I said, I don't know what causes this, but PD's online code is not very resistant to anything outside lab conditions, it seems.

 

[Shahar]

I agree with what you say, but that's just lag. I have not heard a good explanation about the invisibility issues though, and those are by far the worst. How can it be that you can see someone in the lobby, and once you get on track they are not visible for you, but for all the others in the room? How can it be that someone disappears from the track 1 car length ahead of you in a race, while everyone else continues to see him?

These issues should have been sorted in GT5 and 1 year after GT6-release we're still trying to cope with this. Online races are getting delayed with people leaving the lobby and reconnecting only for others to suddenly vanish in the meantime. As I said, I don't know what causes this, but PD's online code is not very resistant to anything outside lab conditions, it seems.

i agrre with you , thier code is full of bugs.

 

[Johnnypenso]

What is this lots of stuff that GT has? I have read all about the stuff they don't have.

The game has lots of cars and tracks.

 

[Shahar]

Kaz it will be much better if standart cars will come to GT7 "in a later update".

 

[Zuku]

Get left behind on the Playstation?

Will Forza get left behind on the XBox?

PD should put features that other racing games have so people can complain it is not good enough? That's a trend I can see.

I hope if and when they decide to put a livery editor, it makes me drive faster and win (nearly) every online race.




What is this lots of stuff that GT has? I have read all about the stuff they don't have.

Yes get left behind on Playstation if you think just because GT1-4 were great that GT isn't going anywhere well I got bad news for you these other people that have been playing Gran Turismo from ages 4-30(sample size) some 15 years ago, have probably grown up and had dreams of their own to outdo what even GT has done.

Look at Forza back in Forza 1 and 2 days you know it was still all good, but once the 3rd one came about things began to shift or at least it started too.

How did PD respond seems to me they've had that "We're the **** attitude we don't have to do anything they'll buy our stuff regardless" kinda like Playstation has had since the Playstation 3 (anyone remember that fiasco?

 

[TheCrazySwede]

What I find worrying is how Kaz just recently started mentioning his "regrets" and mistakes, as if the only reason to point them out is to praise GT7. Seems like he's using the good ol' "Oh yea, that thing we used to use sucked. This new thing is way better" technique.

It's kind of weird to mention that your past project wasn't that great...especially when you're trying to convince people that "major updates" are on the way. At least wait until your past project is finished (GT6) until you start taking a dump on it. If Kaz had mentioned early on that GT6 isn't complete, it has a lot of things wrong with it and that he isn't completely satisfied with it, then I'd bet my every dollar that the game's sales numbers wouldn't be anywhere close to where they are now.

With the wide array of false promises from Kaz, I have my doubts about GT7. Technologically, it'll be amazing. It's the gameplay I have my doubts about.

 

[dimassa19]

What I find worrying is how Kaz just recently started mentioning his "regrets" and mistakes, as if the only reason to point them out is to praise GT7. Seems like he's using the good ol' "Oh yea, that thing we used to use sucked. This new thing is way better" technique.

It's kind of weird to mention that your past project wasn't that great...especially when you're trying to convince people that "major updates" are on the way. At least wait until your past project is finished (GT6) until you start taking a dump on it. If Kaz had mentioned early on that GT6 isn't complete, it has a lot of things wrong with it and that he isn't completely satisfied with it, then I'd bet my every dollar that the game's sales numbers wouldn't be anywhere close to where they are now.

With the wide array of false promises from Kaz, I have my doubts about GT7. Technologically, it'll be amazing. It's the gameplay I have my doubts about.

This kind of post is relevant?

 

[wowbaggerBR]

This kind of post is relevant?

Yes. Yours? Not that much.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I think the situation with PD & GT7 is quite simple.

Physics/graphics: This has always been their forte, so I'm not worried at all here.

Cars/tracks: This has always been limited by PD's small workforce. If GT7 is released 2 years from now, I expect 200 new cars and 5-6 new tracks. Standards will return, whether you like it or not, because they simply don't have enough manpower to convert all of them into premiums.

Sound: From the pitstop blog we know PD knows their old samples suck and they are recording some of the newer cars with new methods. But again, this is limited by PD's small workforce and it takes time to re-record all 1200 samples.

Career/AI/damage: Sadly this depends on PD's outdated philosophy and I don't expect it to be much different from previous games.

Extra features: Livery editor, customization, etc. PD has been flirting with it in GT6 with racing numbers, custom rear wings, and interior dials. I expect a couple of additional tidbits, but I don't expect anything game changing like Forza's livery editor or engine swaps.

Summary: GT7 will have improved physics & graphics. ~1400 cars (800 standard + 600 premium) and ~45 unique tracks. Better sounds for newer cars (but same vacuum for older ones). Same ol' career mode, slow AI and half-baked damage. A couple of novelty gimmicks that will polarize the community, but none that anyone actually wants.

Verdict: If you like driving lots of pretty cars on lots of pretty tracks then GT7 will be as amazing as always. If you want anything resembling real life competitive racing and in-depth customization look elsewhere.

 

[Zuku]

I think the situation with PD & GT7 is quite simple.

Physics/graphics: This has always been their forte, so I'm not worried at all here.

Cars/tracks: This has always been limited by PD's small workforce. If GT7 is released 2 years from now, I expect 200 new cars and 5-6 new tracks. Standards will return, whether you like it or not, because they simply don't have enough manpower to convert all of them into premiums.

Sound: From the pitstop blog we know PD knows their old samples suck and they are recording some of the newer cars with new methods. But again, this is limited by PD's small workforce and it takes time to re-record all 1200 samples.

Career/AI: Sadly this depends on PD's outdated philosophy and I don't expect it to be much different from previous games.

Extra features: Livery editor, customization, etc. PD has been flirting with it in GT6 with racing numbers, custom rear wings, and interior dials. I expect a couple of additional tidbits, but I don't expect anything game changing like Forza's livery editor or engine swaps.

Summary: GT7 will have improved physics & graphics, ~1400 cars (800 standard + 600 premium) and ~45 unique tracks, better sounds for newer cars (but same vacuum for older ones), same ol' career and slow AI, and a couple of novelty gimmicks that will polarize the community (but none that anyone actually wants).

That's not going to cut it this right here sounds like "Insert sports game here" that releases year after year.

I understand some racing games like the F1 series is probably a niche market, but GT ain't that if we're getting 5-6 tracks in just 2-3 years time mannnn.....someone need to be fired.

Heck looking at the suggestions box.

Thinking about all City, Rally, World, and Fantasy(city counts) that are missing it's well over 10 and then thinking of other most requested new ones that's just crazy.

I'm screaming this from highest rooftops, but if on PS4 GT7 there are only 600 premium cars Forza might have them beat in that department once Forza 6 or 7 comes out.

They got to do better than 600. I think for this fanbase they must do better than 600 by now it should be more 70/30 in favor of premiums instead of 40/60 in favor of standards.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

That's not going to cut it this right here sounds like "Insert sports game here" that releases year after year.

I understand some racing games like the F1 series is probably a niche market, but GT ain't that if we're getting 5-6 tracks in just 2-3 years time mannnn.....someone need to be fired.

Heck looking at the suggestions box.

Thinking about all City, Rally, World, and Fantasy(city counts) that are missing it's well over 10 and then thinking of other most requested new ones that's just crazy.

I'm screaming this from highest rooftops, but if on PS4 GT7 there are only 600 premium cars Forza might have them beat in that department once Forza 6 or 7 comes out.

They got to do better than 600. I think for this fanbase they must do better than 600 by now it should be more 70/30 in favor of premiums instead of 40/60 in favor of standards.

It is what it is. Unless Kaz gets his head out and starts hiring more people (instead of sticking with the same team from 15 years ago) we can't get more cars and tracks. With their current team the rate of production is 200 cars and 5-6 tracks per 2 years tops. Forza has a way bigger team and they outsource some of their modelling, so their output rate is much higher.

It's a vicious cycle really. If they wait longer between releases we get more content, but the hype grows even bigger and everyone ends up disappointed. If they release more games the content increase is incremental and everyone is also disappointed.

PD simply needs to hire more people. Period.

 

[TayeezSA]

That's not going to cut it this right here sounds like "Insert sports game here" that releases year after year.

I understand some racing games like the F1 series is probably a niche market, but GT ain't that if we're getting 5-6 tracks in just 2-3 years time mannnn.....someone need to be fired.

Heck looking at the suggestions box.

Thinking about all City, Rally, World, and Fantasy(city counts) that are missing it's well over 10 and then thinking of other most requested new ones that's just crazy.

I'm screaming this from highest rooftops, but if on PS4 GT7 there are only 600 premium cars Forza might have them beat in that department once Forza 6 or 7 comes out.

They got to do better than 600. I think for this fanbase they must do better than 600 by now it should be more 70/30 in favor of premiums instead of 40/60 in favor of standards.

It is what it is. Unless Kaz gets his head out and starts hiring more people (instead of sticking with the same team from 15 years ago) we can't get more cars and tracks. With their current team the rate of production is 200 cars and 5-6 tracks per 2 years tops. Forza has a way bigger team and they outsource some of their modelling, so their output rate is much higher.

It's a vicious cycle really. If they wait longer between releases we get more content, but the hype grows even bigger and everyone ends up disappointed. If they release more games the content increase is incremental and everyone is also disappointed.

PD simply needs to hire more people. Period.

PD has been hiring more people but have kept their numbers of hirings on the down-lo with the exception of the Sound team. I've seen on their recruitment site that they're also looking for 3D modellers and CG Artists.

I think 600-650 premium cars is the magic number like I've said in other threads but there needs to be a balance of choice cars.

With tracks I wouldn't mind more fantasy tracks (Like Red Rock Valley, Cape Ring etc) because I believe they take less time to produce though more real world tracks would be cool too.

If Kaz says things will be better then let's see what his definition of better is before we slam

 

[dimassa19]

Yes. Yours? Not that much.

Hurts you? Was not my intention...sorry.

 

[raven214]

I think the situation with PD & GT7 is quite simple.

Physics/graphics: This has always been their forte, so I'm not worried at all here.

Cars/tracks: This has always been limited by PD's small workforce. If GT7 is released 2 years from now, I expect 200 new cars and 5-6 new tracks. Standards will return, whether you like it or not, because they simply don't have enough manpower to convert all of them into premiums.

Sound: From the pitstop blog we know PD knows their old samples suck and they are recording some of the newer cars with new methods. But again, this is limited by PD's small workforce and it takes time to re-record all 1200 samples.

Career/AI/damage: Sadly this depends on PD's outdated philosophy and I don't expect it to be much different from previous games.

Extra features: Livery editor, customization, etc. PD has been flirting with it in GT6 with racing numbers, custom rear wings, and interior dials. I expect a couple of additional tidbits, but I don't expect anything game changing like Forza's livery editor or engine swaps.

Summary: GT7 will have improved physics & graphics. ~1400 cars (800 standard + 600 premium) and ~45 unique tracks. Better sounds for newer cars (but same vacuum for older ones). Same ol' career mode, slow AI and half-baked damage. A couple of novelty gimmicks that will polarize the community, but none that anyone actually wants.

Verdict: If you like driving lots of pretty cars on lots of pretty tracks then GT7 will be as amazing as always. If you want anything resembling real life competitive racing and in-depth customization look elsewhere.

I think this is a very realistic take on what we can expect in GT7. If this comes to pass, I cannot justify buying a PS4 just to play GT5/6 with shinier graphics and the same old, stale gameplay. I think I would probably opt for a new PC and Pcars/iRacing.

 

[Nooboogering]

Yes get left behind on Playstation if you think just because GT1-4 were great that GT isn't going anywhere well I got bad news for you these other people that have been playing Gran Turismo from ages 4-30(sample size) some 15 years ago, have probably grown up and had dreams of their own to outdo what even GT has done.

Look at Forza back in Forza 1 and 2 days you know it was still all good, but once the 3rd one came about things began to shift or at least it started too.

How did PD respond seems to me they've had that "We're the **** attitude we don't have to do anything they'll buy our stuff regardless" kinda like Playstation has had since the Playstation 3 (anyone remember that fiasco?

I hope if and when PD add their 'full blown' livery editor and course maker, I'll use it!

Many people haven't played Gran Turismo...yet!

Their style doesn't suit everyone, all the time!

 

[Zuku]

I hope if and when PD add their 'full blown' livery editor and course maker, I'll use it!

Many people haven't played Gran Turismo...yet!

Their style doesn't suit everyone, all the time!

And at this rate most probably won't play GT and why are we yelling?

Look I've known of GT since the first game demoed in Pizza Hut as a kid on my birthday way back in 1998 or 1999 remember High Speed Ring, and think SSR5 or think at the time it was Clubman, and got into the game at GT3.

So I know a think or two about their style, and you might be correct, but when you keep messing around, and not updating your style to match the times **** happens.

Think about this for a second we've brought this up before in numerous other threads.

GT3 had what like 12 mil copies sold
GT4 had 9 mil or near 10 mil sold
GT5 it was over 10 mil
GT6 2.5 mil?

You explain to me what's wrong with that picture seems like something happened, and don't go blaming the PS4 release on the sales numbers either only few people have a PS4 compared to numbers that still own a PS3.

Like I've said a long time now with GT7 not holding my breath just like with the Kingdom Hearts(have my own criticisms about it) series believe it when I see it.

 

[mister dog]

Problem is, they don't really need to bother with updating their failing formula; shelve out a GT6 with better graphics and the game will sell 3 million copies or more just because it's GT and it's the first one on a new platform.
Game sells itself to most punters just because of its name and PD knows that as good as anyone...

 

[Pootis]

I just hope that GT7 will be better this time and has the fabled Livery Editor and premium Supra RZ as well as the improved sounds and AI. Too many things to list so I made a simple list of what everyone wants:

Premium Toyota Supra RZ
BMW M3 E30
Livery editor
Better sounds
Better AI
Better damage modeling
Course editor
Shuffle racing

 

[TokoTurismo]

Problem is, they don't really need to bother with updating their failing formula; shelve out a GT6 with better graphics and the game will sell 3 million copies or more just because it's GT and it's the first one on a new platform.
Game sells itself to most punters just because of its name and PD knows that as good as anyone...

Agreed. Kaz can continue to sing "the PS4 will make a difference to GT7" all he wants, he's clearly out of touch with his own game and out of reach with his own fanbase. Graphix and quantity is all that matters to this franchise nowadays, but hey, some people will still buy it because "GT" is on the cover...

 

[mr_serious]

Qualifying? LOL! Practice? LOL! Start last and pass 15 cars in 2 laps ramming out of the way as many as you need to? 👍

Wait a minute! They released that 2015 era game in 2010 and again in 2013!

 

[Mtla1984]

it does seem a slight oversight to (seemingly) not notice the limitations of ps3 (the medium you'd hope they would have a handle on) and promised so much in a reality that could simply never deliver. When i read such articles and interviews from someone in charge of a company that actually puts its money where its mouth is (spending cash to develope a product), my mind boggles at the amazing amount of terrible choices made (wishing he could effectively start again sound, graphic, physic and a.i. wise). Is the game for us or them?. I for one would feel horrible if my hardcore fans were not happy, if they loved my work and ideas i would love to keep a balance of my wants and the public . I wouldn't do a George Lucas, thats for sure.

 

[Zer0]

Think about this for a second we've brought this up before in numerous other threads.

GT3 had what like 12 mil copies sold
GT4 had 9 mil or near 10 mil sold
GT5 it was over 10 mil
GT6 2.5 mil?

You explain to me what's wrong with that picture seems like something happened, and don't go blaming the PS4 release on the sales numbers either only few people have a PS4 compared to numbers that still own a PS3.

Wrong numbers all around and no one knows how many copies are sold of GT6 as that data is not released yet but happened that you are comparing complete full life cycle GT games sales during many years to a game that is not even in its first year or have received all of its updates.

There are more factors but you only need to know the more evident to understand why your comparisson can't work in that way. Some years after the release of GT7 it would make sense to compare GT6 sales, not yet.

 

[Fat Tyre]

I just hope that GT7 will be better this time and has the fabled Livery Editor and premium Supra RZ as well as the improved sounds and AI. Too many things to list so I made a simple list of what everyone wants:

Premium Toyota Supra RZ
BMW M3 E30
Livery editor
Better sounds
Better AI
Better damage modeling
Course editor
Shuffle racing

Aside from the course editor and shuffle racing you have described Forza 5. I used to get upset and demand those features from GT as well just to get told by the fan boys to go play something else. I used to find that infuriating because I wanted PD to be the one bringing those things to the table not any other company. But later I realised this was a mistake from my part. Yes I loved GT and had this sense of nostalgia attached to it because I had played it for so long but my real passion is for cars not GT, Gran Turismo is secondary just as Forza or pCARS can be. These games are platforms for us to experience cars virtually and none of them have it absolutely right as of now but since car culture is so vast you have to set your own priorities (features) first and then see who can deliver them for you (IP/ franchise).

Any way I am writing this because I had a pretty similar simple list of things I wanted (bar the course maker which I don't really care about) and I now have found a game that absolutely delivers all of those things, it just doesn't have the GT logo and yes, sadly it is Forza. I sincerely recommend this game to you and anyone else with similar demands, I took the plunge and I couldn't be happier.

PS: the Supra is amazing!

 

[Harsk100]

Have you ever seen 100 or 70 drivers racing at the same time in a circuit? lol

I'd be glad with 22, but 16 would be fine.


BTW isn't it unbelievable how he wants to make a game of this era, yet said most likely standard cars (from 2004 and earlier) are coming back in his 2015-2016 game?

I mean,
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-bad-and-the-ugly.291012/page-93#post-9936012
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-bad-and-the-ugly.291012/page-94#post-9940277

Or in one picture: does this look like PS4, "this era" quality? No, this is literally 20 years behind.
http://i61.tinypic.com/21aess7.jpg

I saw that the 24H Nurbugring 2003 had 50 drivers in the track.


And in Nurburgring 24H 2011 had more than 130 cars in track.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_24_Hours_of_Nürburgring

That's why I want more than 100 cars in the track so we could simulate an 24H Nurburgring.

 

[Zuku]

Wrong numbers all around and no one knows how many copies are sold of GT6 as that data is not released yet but happened that you are comparing complete full life cycle GT games sales during many years to a game that is not even in its first year or have received all of its updates.

There are more factors but you only need to know the more evident to understand why your comparisson can't work in that way. Some years after the release of GT7 it would make sense to compare GT6 sales, not yet.

Dude as of right now I'm going based off those numbers why? Because so far it's the only concrete thing we have. Look I know this much why would you download GT6 at $60 when it can be had on Amazon for around now $30?

Anyways it doesn't take years to have a comparison at the year mark let's just say this GT sales didn't die down until it's latter years for each title.

GT3 for example probably sold 3 mil right at it's launch(bundled of course), and about 4 more mil a few years after it got to the 12 mil mark probably in the time leading up to GT4 release.

Look man it's October as of Sept 27th the sales actually creep'd up to 2.80 mil, but still it don't matter even Gran Turismo 2 which came out around Playstation 2 launch sold up to nearly 10
mil.

EDITED: To say GT3 sold 15 mil so probably sold 5 mil around launch some 6 mil after that and the latter part leading up and even beyond GT4 it got the other 4 mil.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I saw that the 24H Nurbugring 2003 had 50 drivers in the track.


And in Nurburgring 24H 2011 had more than 130 cars in track.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_24_Hours_of_Nürburgring

That's why I want more than 100 cars in the track so we could simulate an 24H Nurburgring.

Very high end PC's, many times more powerful than PS4 have a hard time getting more than 30 or 40 highly detailed, next-gen cars on track, albeit with a physics/tire model much more complciated than GT6. I can't see the PS4 being able to do this reliably but you never know.

 

[Zuku]

Very high end PC's, many times more powerful than PS4 have a hard time getting more than 30 or 40 highly detailed, next-gen cars on track, albeit with a physics/tire model much more complciated than GT6. I can't see the PS4 being able to do this reliably but you never know.

I'd take the original 5(plus the user so 6) on the track with some kind of competitive A.I it's not about how many cars/how many cars on the track it's what you do with them that counts.

 

[TayeezSA]

Let's just be realistic here and stick with 12-16 cars on track but with beefed up AI