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GTDesigned: A Community Vision GT Project
- Thread starter LosCules24SFA
- 2,239 comments
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but it looks good...
- 610
- Low Head, Tasmania
- Kembro45
Well done, I'm happy with the results then, as it sounds like you sorted it. Great news for the designers.
It's not far off the way the car industry seems to be heading, besides the powertrain. But even two strokes have seen a resurgence lately, in MX anyway. Full steam ahead.
I think finding an existing engine will be easier to get specs and sound bytes from. The same for the gearbox. Looking forward to seeing all the designs/ideas together.
- 5,065
- Fort Worth
- That_sneaky_azN
Finished with the concept design, will upload it in a jiffy 👍
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- Indonesia
@kembro and @TacoParty , your opinion is different, no offence but I'm confused here
- 5,065
- Fort Worth
- That_sneaky_azN
Here it is, I dub thee
"GTP-VGT15", GTPlanet-Vision Gran Turismo 2015.
"GTP-VGT15", GTPlanet-Vision Gran Turismo 2015.
- 610
- Low Head, Tasmania
- Kembro45
I'm fine either way if you want to do another, but if the poll is correct then no need to redo.
Being a Suby driver, both H6 and my GT. I love flat motors too for the low COG, but if the peoples opinion is what's reflected by the poll then that's our brief.
Love a rotary too, but that didn't win and that's ok as it's not my VGT it's a GTP one.
The VGT GTP15 is trick @Grandea GTR , well done.
Being a Suby driver, both H6 and my GT. I love flat motors too for the low COG, but if the peoples opinion is what's reflected by the poll then that's our brief.
Love a rotary too, but that didn't win and that's ok as it's not my VGT it's a GTP one.
The VGT GTP15 is trick @Grandea GTR , well done.
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- 82
- Toronto
@LosCules24SFA yeah man so far the only thing I don't like is the two stroke.
@Grandea GTR I think you have the best design in this thread so far
@Grandea GTR I think you have the best design in this thread so far
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- 82
- Toronto
@LosCules24SFA it isn't even that I can't get used to it. I guess I've always been a car person so when I'm designing I'm always asking myself what will work best and doing pro-cons. I can see the benefits of a v4 and design around that, like the fact that it's the most compact 4 cylinder configuration, which is why I drew up a smaller, tighter design. But I can't see any actual benefits for a 2 stroke in any situation. If it makes our car just more of a pain to design, offers no power benefits and doesn’t save any more space I just feel like it's hurting the car. And honestly with the lack of security in the poll someone still could be voted multiple times, because honestly outside a lawnmower of dirt bike I can't even imagine why someone would vote for a two stroke. Can get maybe make the poll submissions available just so I can check for other patterns?
- 343
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@TacoParty I'll send the poll result in approximately 5 hours from now cause I'm a bit busy right now, you're okay with that?
- 82
- Toronto
@LosCules24SFA yeah I'm going to sleep now anyway, 3:30 am here.
- 610
- Low Head, Tasmania
- Kembro45
Personally I've always been a 4 stroke fan for longevity and you don't have to premix, but here's some info from DeepScience.
"A Common List of Advantages and Disadvantages
Advantages of 2 Stroke Engines:
- Two-stroke engines do not have valves, simplifying their construction.
- Two-stroke engines fire once every revolution (four-stroke engines fire once every other revolution). This gives two-stroke engines a significant power boost.
- Two-stroke engines are lighter, and cost less to manufacture.
- Two-stroke engines have the potential for about twice the power in the same size because there are twice as many power strokes per revolution.
Disadvantages of 2 Stroke Engines:
- Two-stroke engines don't live as long as four-stroke engines. The lack of a dedicated lubrication system means that the parts of a two-stroke engine wear-out faster. Two-stroke engines require a mix of oil in with the gas to lubricate the crankshaft, connecting rod and cylinder walls.
- Two-stroke oil can be expensive. Mixing ratio is about 4 ounces per gallon of gas: burning about a gallon of oil every 1,000 miles.
- Two-stroke engines do not use fuel efficiently, yielding fewer miles per gallon.
- Two-stroke engines produce more pollution.
From:
-- The combustion of the oil in the gas. The oil makes all two-stroke engines smoky to some extent, and a badly worn two-stroke engine can emit more oily smoke.
-- Each time a new mix of air/fuel is loaded into the combustion chamber, part of it leaks out through the exhaust port."
The twice the power per cc and lighter appeal to me.
"A Common List of Advantages and Disadvantages
Advantages of 2 Stroke Engines:
- Two-stroke engines do not have valves, simplifying their construction.
- Two-stroke engines fire once every revolution (four-stroke engines fire once every other revolution). This gives two-stroke engines a significant power boost.
- Two-stroke engines are lighter, and cost less to manufacture.
- Two-stroke engines have the potential for about twice the power in the same size because there are twice as many power strokes per revolution.
Disadvantages of 2 Stroke Engines:
- Two-stroke engines don't live as long as four-stroke engines. The lack of a dedicated lubrication system means that the parts of a two-stroke engine wear-out faster. Two-stroke engines require a mix of oil in with the gas to lubricate the crankshaft, connecting rod and cylinder walls.
- Two-stroke oil can be expensive. Mixing ratio is about 4 ounces per gallon of gas: burning about a gallon of oil every 1,000 miles.
- Two-stroke engines do not use fuel efficiently, yielding fewer miles per gallon.
- Two-stroke engines produce more pollution.
From:
-- The combustion of the oil in the gas. The oil makes all two-stroke engines smoky to some extent, and a badly worn two-stroke engine can emit more oily smoke.
-- Each time a new mix of air/fuel is loaded into the combustion chamber, part of it leaks out through the exhaust port."
The twice the power per cc and lighter appeal to me.
- 5,065
- Fort Worth
- That_sneaky_azN
There's also AutoCAD, too.
By the way, people in this thread, what are your thoughts on a Twincharged Inline-4 Engine (Like the VW/Audi TFSI)? I feel like it can be a great all-rounder in the track...
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- 2,308
- United States
- monkeylima
I'm in favor of the two stroke because it has the potential for twice the power and it's lighter. Fuel effenciency, and pollution don't matter to me
- 900
- New York
Well, guys, I got blender. This is what I thought...
- I picked it up really quickly, even though I'm young.
- I WAS gonna do a big project for school, but nope.
- It's really complicated.
- The controls are confusing, but I'll get used to it.
- Rendering a car in a day probably won't work.
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- Indonesia
I think I can't finish your sketch today, to much to do but I'll try to finish it ASAP
- 2,308
- United States
- monkeylima
@LosCules24SFA it's all good
Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,754
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
Concepts are supposed to be looking towards the future with new and advanced technologies. Like just about every Vision GT. We're taking a huge step backwards if we go two stroke. As per modern effiency requirements both on road and track we'll get no where with such an engine. Yes, I understand this is just a concept in a video game but there needs to be some grasp on reality.
- 2,308
- United States
- monkeylima
The future is not predetermined by one's point of view and my vision of the future is not to conform with the environmentalists (rant over). Plus two strokes have evolved over the years...
Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,754
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
I'd say it's fairly predetermined when, as I said, there are laws and rules set for the future. I'm not even an environmentalist, I just know that this will be the future.
- 343
- Indonesia
For now we'll follow the poll result, but who knows....
- 2,308
- United States
- monkeylima
I know but I'm sure we can do something to make the two stroke efficient (which reminds me that the WEC is considering allowing teams to using two strokes) but we are probably going to end up making a race car (which the only purpose is to go as fast as possible)
R5
(Banned)
- 7,527
- Location, Location
No, you're right. Which is why this is a community project. 4 cylinder hybrid, it remains unless there is a revote.
And I'm definite that it is, seeing as the EU are wanting huge average C02 cuts from companies producing over 500 cars a year by 2020.
Which isn't a reason to have a 2 stroke. The Toleman Hart TG184 had a 1.5 turbo 4 cylinder engine and produced 600bhp in detuned race trim. In the 80s.
A modern 4 cyl could surpass that and with a hybrid system, Formula e motors make 160 BHP in race trim, it could push very far indeed with torque from 0 rpm, and torque vectoring, and with the Ferrari F150's electrical system weighing 140 Kg, it will not blunt performance too much, especially compared to what a 4WD system may weigh.
- 82
- Toronto
@kembro That's the advantages over a NA 4-stroke though. In carbed engines (which are really only good if you work on your bike yourself, which we can't do in-game) 2-strokes have a huge advantage and that sweet sound. But they are hard to get enough exhaust volume to spool a big turbo, they premix the fuel and oil which causes it's own limitations and the limitation that I dread the most which is it's impossible to get enough back-pressure in the exhaust to really get high (50 psi+) boost pressures. If someone has a REAL solution to the back-pressure problem I'd love a two-stroke. But all the engines I see online are just youtube rubbish where there's no actual technical information. Even with a supercharger (which is probably infinitely less complicated than a turbo in a two-stroke) there's not a lot of info of getting REAL engines past 10-15 psi tops. I was wondering though if we want to maybe just open the design up a little. @Grandea GTR 's design has ample room in the front AND back, and it's not like we need cargo space. And it seems nobody here's afraid of fuel economy losses, so I was wondering if anyone wanted to experiment with a two-engined design. A two-stroke N/A v4 in the front between 2 electric motors, and a flat-6 turbo and a single electric in the back. I admit that the transmission for something like that is a bit complicated but probably still much easier than turboing a two-stroke.
- 5,065
- Fort Worth
- That_sneaky_azN
I was thinking an Atkinson Cycle Inline-4 would provide a balance of power and efficiency for the car, installed with twin turbochargers (or maybe a twincharger (super+turbo)) for added effects to performance and economy.
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