GTP Cool Wall: 2011-2014 Koenigsegg Agera R
- Thread starter Wiegert
- 95 comments
- 6,390 views
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
The Veyron lacks the soul of Agera simply because it's just VW trying the flex their muscles, the fact a Small time car company like koenigsegg can match it's capabilitys with a highly passionate creator makes it much more appealing, for me anyways.
and it's not like this car is just a kit car with bolt ons like the Venom Gt, there is some innovation and complex engineering going into their cars as well(look at there own Triplex suspension for example that adds significant stability to the car and helps braking performance and their one input shaft Dual clutch gear box the first ever).
As for the speed record, I think it comes down to many factors, such as requiring a bespoke Tyre like the Veyron SS has that allows it to reach those high speeds without risk of tyre failure, Hennessy for instance doesn't really care for those risks and does it anyway, the swedes are safety conscious.
and it's not like this car is just a kit car with bolt ons like the Venom Gt, there is some innovation and complex engineering going into their cars as well(look at there own Triplex suspension for example that adds significant stability to the car and helps braking performance and their one input shaft Dual clutch gear box the first ever).
As for the speed record, I think it comes down to many factors, such as requiring a bespoke Tyre like the Veyron SS has that allows it to reach those high speeds without risk of tyre failure, Hennessy for instance doesn't really care for those risks and does it anyway, the swedes are safety conscious.
Last edited:
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,264
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
As I said previously, Christian is happy enough with how sales are going, so they don't need to state or prove exact top speed numbers just for the sake of it. Their customers are satisfied enough with the cars performance, and they don't really feel having a certified Guinness World Record is going to add anything to the brand's prestige.
As for making bold claims, well they need to say something for the press brochure. If they make ludicrous claims like the Devel 16's 300+ mph then they should be called out, but their claims are pretty reasonable for the car's power and aero, so if they only bothered to state top speed 270+ mph, then so be it.
Both valid points, but again, the company doesn't feel like building press cars just for the sake of getting press coverage, so be it.
If that's your view, then I respect that, but personally I see Koenigsegg in a different league than Hennesey or SSC in the top speed race. They built the next fastest top speed vehicle as a result of trying to build the fastest car overall, not specifically targeting the Veyron's record.
The Veyron may be as popular as the F1 and go down in history books, but it's no F1. The F1 was an absolutely pinnacle in everything back in its day (fastest top speed, fastest acceleration, fastest braking, fastest lap time, most powerful, lightest, most expensive, most exclusive and it can carry 3 people). It holds the record for much longer than the Veyron. The Veyron is a marvel in that how drivable it is, but if you put a 16 cylinder engine + 4 turbos then it's no surprise that it reaches those kinds of speed. Unfortunately it's heavy, so its laptime suffers. Also an Ariel Atom will match its low down acceleration. It's not an absolute pinnacle in everything. Then again with today's regulations I doubt we'll see a car like the F1 again, so it's not really VAG's fault.
I dunno, I just feel that at the end of the day Koenigsegg approached the idea of hypercars with a better mindset than VAG's boardroom approach. Christian literally started from nothing, but with innovative engineering solutions he managed to create something incredible to drive. The top speed, whatever it may be, is just a bonus. I respect their approach, and that's why it gets a Cool from me.
I think I've said everything I want to say, so I'll stop here. Each to their own opinion
👍Don't forget the hollow carbon rims, or the passive-active rear wing. Also the top mounted active wing on the One:1, or the gearbox-less Regera. Also last I've heard they are trying out camless engines.
It's the innovation and creativity that makes me love the company so much. Christian is basically the kid petrolhead in all of us, he just plays with real cars as toys
The other usual supercar manufacturers do innovative things here and there (the hybrid hypercar trio comes to mind), but it doesn't feel as cutting edge (coupled with the fact that they have more money too).
McLaren
Premium
- 45,526
- Texas
Match its capabilities in what? Top Speed & acceleration? You must be fond of Underground Racing, Alpha, etc. who all did the same thing.
They've finessed their craft over the years, but Koenigsegg rose to fame like the tuners; they took a V8 block & attached twin superchargers to it to maximize horsepower. That was the big wow factor for the company.
Except that's how Koenigsegg pretty much rose to fame. They were using supercharged Ford V8 blocks originally.
That's nothing more than another excuse; they said the Agera during its unveiling had its own special Michelin tires.
They haven't attempted it for the same reasons they don't review their cars any more; everything is a client-ordered vehicle.
Except that's exactly what they're doing. If they have no intention of testing these figures, then they're just blowing smoke for the sake of it.
What you're claiming is that Christian & his clients believe the car speaks for itself; it doesn't have to state any figures. And yet, it still does for the sake of it because you claim the brochures need selling material. But Christian is happy with the sales, so it appears they don't need say anything about the figures at all....
That's fine. It doesn't stop anyone from questioning their claims, either. The more likely issue is that Christian has followed Bugatti & Pagani's latest trend. Keep the same model & build several different special editions in limited quantities.
Because the Veyron didn't exist yet when the CCR made its stake. However, if their goal was to build the fastest car overall, why not back it up? After the CCR was dethroned, Koenigsegg never made the attempt again to out-do the CCR and yet with the CCX & Agera, the top speed claim rose without ever actually seeing if they really did "build the fastest car overall".
The F1 was not the pinnacle of everything. It weighed more than a F40 at its birth & claiming lap records is a stretch considering there are virtually none apart from Bedford & Tsukuba, & a claim Nurburgring time from a Prototype chassis. The Veyron was just as much of those; it had the top speed, its acceleration was a high speaking point, it was incredibly powerful, & outrageously expensive. Exclusivity is not a positive point; the F1 died due to the economy much like several other 90's super cars.
Like mustafur, you seem to forget what the CC8S & CCR were when they arrived; nearly barn-shed built cars with a very high horsepower engine on the back with forced induction. As said above, Christian has finessed his company very well over the years, but he didn't come into the automotive market with any of the technology both you are trying to tout. It took him 8 years just to get the CC8S out the door & only 6 of those were even built.
What's ironic is that the Veyron is the exact samething; a car built with its own innovative engineering solutions. A 16 cylinder engine with 4 turbos & 10 radiators was unheard of. As was a vehicle claiming it made 1,000Hp yet was as docile as a Kia to drive. The fact it was also able to produce all of it in a reliable product was just as astounding. It was as much a technical marvel as the F1, hence why it was the F1 of the new millennium. The only difference was the approach Bugatti & McLaren took to each, but they produced cars that set the bar for everybody else. Christian himself drew up the F1 as an inspiration:
- 40,821
In what way does using someone else's engine as a base = kit car? Jaguar used a twin turbocharged version of a failed MG racing engine and infamously had parts bin pieces from other British manufacturers compared to the largely bespoke car that the original concept was. Did that make the XJ220 a kit car? What about the Zondas, with their Mercedes engines? Spyker, with its Audi engines?
Hell, what about the F1? That had a heavily modified version of an engine BMW had been kicking around for use in the ultimately-cancelled M8, and Murray only reluctantly used it because Honda wouldn't make him something to his specifications even though Honda was the company who he really wanted to make the engine.
People don't "nearly barn-shed build" cars with carbon fiber construction. The original CC8 wasn't akin to a Fiero that someone put a Northstar in, no matter how much hyperbole you try to push on it. It was a combined effort of quite a lot of people with quite a lot of experience building the things that went into it, it was well liked and fondly remembered by the handful of people who were given a change to test it (outside of a few niggling things like some aspects of the interior design and twitcht handling), and it's not any lesser because it didn't have the power of the world's fourth largest automaker working with a blank check to get around design problems dictated by a concept car that the chairman of the company took a liking to.
The Veyron is not the exact same thing, because the difference in approach you're trying to downplay was huge. They Veyron was VW drafting up a design and set of numbers that the car had to meet and look like, and then throwing it at the engineers and countless amounts of money at it to get it to work. It was loaded with radiators because that was the only way they could get a car with the styling that was already dictated 6 years before the car debuted to keep from overheating. It had a thousand horsepower and 16 cylinders and 2.5 sec 0-60 times and 250 MPH because Piech wanted it to have those things and said it would do those things and damn the expense or time because this was Piech-era VAG. It was the epitome of a numbers car, and the only difference between it and the flash in the pan dick swinging companies that pop up every few years was that Volkswagen had absolutely no intention of making any money on it so they spent whatever it took to get it to do those numbers and to be flawless.
It's about as far from the same thing as the F1 as it can be, and Murray himself made it very clear how compromised it didn't have to be if they hadn't chosen the route they did when making it even though he was impressed they were able to do it. Whether the CC8 and it's younger brothers are a modern day F1 is different argument (Murray wasn't a fan of it either, as I recall), but the Veyron isn't regardless.
So it was the F1 of the new millennium because... it was the F1 of the new millennium. But the car that spent half a decade or so in development specifically benchmarking the F1 to surpass it isn't... because it isn't.
Last edited:
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
I thought we are talking about the Agera R not the CC8 anyway, yes his cars used to be based on Ford engines an the cars where not as technical as today but what do you expect?
Pagani have never made there own engines and the First Zonda S was fairly basic overall, you have to start from somewhere.
How is it hardly a surprise that a company with infinite budget can make a Hypercar, where as Koenigsegg has done it with very little and has been innovating the whole time as well.
Pagani have never made there own engines and the First Zonda S was fairly basic overall, you have to start from somewhere.
How is it hardly a surprise that a company with infinite budget can make a Hypercar, where as Koenigsegg has done it with very little and has been innovating the whole time as well.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,526
- Texas
Perhaps instead of picking what you want to reply to as usual, you'd comprehend that I'm comparing the Veyron to Koenigsegg by saying the exact same thing Legend did about Christian. But, your only goal on this forum remains to be an annoying little fly that finds his way into threads & selectively quoting what you want to play devil's advocate to everything. Due so is why you're about the most useless waste of time replying to & I'm sure you'll have a witty smartass rambling about in reply to me b/c you're incredibly easy to read these days.
Have at it. 👍
Way to completely downplay one & prop the other. It was a surprise because it was incredibly daft to think anyone would do it without spending an atrocious amount of money. The only thing hardly a surprise was how much Bugatti continued to lose on every single one of them. Koenigsegg was about as innovative as any other small time manufacturer; the company was known for high horsepower cars that focused on strapping turbos/superchargers to a V8 & claiming F1 top speeds. His ability to draw up new technology within the Agera's timeline is what's kept him afloat. I've already twice said he's crafted his company very well, but the man didn't come to the table with any new ideas.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
This point your trying to make was your own argument direction, im trying to talk about the Agera(you know the car in question) Your trying to clutch at straws to stroke your ego.
I Already told you that he had to start from somewhere to establish the brand, he choose the simple base so it can be evolved on, making a whole new car from scratch isn't cheap, not everyone is willing to throw money at a car until it's made without a care if it's profitable or not.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,526
- Texas
What is there to back up if your only goal is to selectively quote what you want. What a boring response. Expected a rolleyes smiley at the least.
This still doesn't prove the fact the man entered the automotive world like every other small time manufacturer. Yes, the Agera has innovations in it, but this over-hype about his creations in comparison to the Veyron acts as if he's always built his cars with this technology. In 2005, the Veyron was a far, far more technological advancement than Koenigsegg's CCR where as its doors were about the most innovative offering talked about.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,526
- Texas
The point is this.
During Legend & I debating the Veyron's image, you chimed in as the Veyron being soulless & that Bugatti was just flexing its muscles whilst Koenigsegg was "matching it" with a passionate creator. Koenigsegg never matched the Veyron with the CCR or CCX & the engineering Christian invented for the Agera/Regera was not present at the time, either. By the time all this technology you list off was made, all the Veyron received was a power boost & aero changes to make one more push for the speed record.
It's pointless bringing up Christian's achievements in relevance to Bugatti & it looks ignorant to think Christian started with nothing but "innovative engineering solutions" next to Bugatti. As if Bugatti knew exactly how to build the Veyron from the start in the late 90's & just wasted time between 1999-2000 building the Hunaudieres, Rosemeyer, & 18/3 Chiron concepts & then lolly gagging 2001-2003 until a prototype was finally built to be tested. 1998-2003 was nothing but R&D and had just as much "innovative engineering solutions" to construct the car.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
I don't get your point here, you always want to refer to 2005 but the CCR and CCX where a clear evolvement in a very similar way from the CC8 that the Last Veyron where to the original.
So in reality it doesn't matter all that matters is what is out at the time of release and my point still stands, The Agera was able to match the capabilities there abouts on the Veyron at the time it was released.
It also brought out innovations after the Veyron was made that it didn't have, all while doing it with a budget that was less then the sticker price of the car.
If the Veyron is only a slight evolvement over the original when it comes out that isn't Koenigsegg's problem.
So in reality it doesn't matter all that matters is what is out at the time of release and my point still stands, The Agera was able to match the capabilities there abouts on the Veyron at the time it was released.
It also brought out innovations after the Veyron was made that it didn't have, all while doing it with a budget that was less then the sticker price of the car.
If the Veyron is only a slight evolvement over the original when it comes out that isn't Koenigsegg's problem.
- 40,821
Amusingly, I only quote and respond things I think are incorrect. Like when someone says something inane like how a car with a nine year gestation period and extensive purpose built componentry is akin to a kit car with bolt ons because the engine they started with was originally designed for something else; or how a car using the same chassis construction ideas as the Ferrari F50 and with extensively documented wind tunnel testing is "nearly barn-shed built" because they didn't start with a concept car body shape with the drag coefficient of a Chevy Astro and put ten radiators on it instead. It's particularly strange that you always take such issue with this because you rarely do anything else but deliberaly cherry pic things you can actually argue and then throw all of your weight behind them with increasing pettiness if it doesn't go your way immediately. For example, what you are doing in this thread.
I recognize this is an alien concept to you, but I actually can admit when I'm wrong. But the other person needs to put in the token effort instead of immediately throwing all of his toys because someone responded to him exagerrating out of his ass in a way he didn't want.
Like its specially-designed DSG transmission and... the... uh... exposed engine.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
You keep referring to 2005 when the Veyron was made and Koenigsegg had the CCR/CCX at the time, but what about when the Agera came out?
You can only compare with what is available when it's made the past matters little, the fact they where able to innovate after the Veyron was out and come out with certain elements of their own creation that was surpiror to that of any Veyron at the time is impressive for a car brand that works out of an Air hanger on a Airfield.
It's also impressive considering The Veyron is made from a near infinite budget with Significant resources that basically no brand in the world has access to.
The fact that the Veyron was only a slight improvement over the original at the time of the Agera' s release means as little as how simple the CCR was when the Veyron was released, you work with what is at present if everyone worked off the past how would anything evolve?
You can only compare with what is available when it's made the past matters little, the fact they where able to innovate after the Veyron was out and come out with certain elements of their own creation that was surpiror to that of any Veyron at the time is impressive for a car brand that works out of an Air hanger on a Airfield.
It's also impressive considering The Veyron is made from a near infinite budget with Significant resources that basically no brand in the world has access to.
The fact that the Veyron was only a slight improvement over the original at the time of the Agera' s release means as little as how simple the CCR was when the Veyron was released, you work with what is at present if everyone worked off the past how would anything evolve?
McLaren
Premium
- 45,526
- Texas
What about it? You're the one presenting me a list of technology in discussion that involves a competitor that was built before it.
The Agera was not anymore superior to the Veyron than the CCX was beyond lap times, and I'm giving it that respect despite no lap times seemingly available for any Agera model. Koenigsegg never ran it at top speed & nobody gave the kind of praise to it the Veyron got. Probably due to no one really getting any seat time. I'm a little amazed any argument can be made for it with how little press it got b/c Koenigsegg delivered all of them before anyone could test one.
I think you fail to realize the budget several manufacturers have & the resources at their disposal. The Veyron can be recreated, but we're not in an economy where it makes much sense anymore. The future is the 918, LaF, & P1 for supercars. The Regera is even headed that way.
I literally yawned reading that; it's the same spew you give to anybody when no one wants to talk to you, talking about toys & what not.
Throw me on your ignore list & call it a night.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
and you did the exact same thing with the CCR/8
Im using what you said and bringing it to the year the Agera was released instead of the Veyron.
This argument is going no where.
Also Car and Driver tested the Agera R, back on release
/Drive on Youtube did an extensive Review on the entire brand as well maybe you should check these out before talking about something you don't understand.
Last edited:
- 40,821
I'm not the one who keeps dodging responses and responding with nothing but petty jabs because my ego was bruised, so why would I put you on ignore? It doesn't benefit me at all to not respond when you say something dumb and then spend the entire rest of the time trying to hurt my feelings instead of actually saying something relevant to the dumb things you originally said.
Quite the opposite, in fact.
Quite the opposite, in fact.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,526
- Texas
I didn't mention the 8, so you're talking out of your rear there. The CCR should be exempt, I'll give that a pass. However, the CCX was the competing car at the time & once more, was not a superior car to the Veyron beyond Top Gear's lap time. It was well received by Top Gear, but the press raved about the Veyron. Your only argument there is that, "WELL, IT HAD XXXXXX BUDGET". As you said above, that's not Bugatti's problem.
Perhaps take the same advice & read up on the Veyron which should be fairly easily for you since you seem intent on thinking Christian has surpassed it as an automotive achievement. The only thing Evo's article brought to light was how surprising the car was to drive & connected. Every article about its predecessor was much like reading about the S7, Mosler, etc. Low volume supercars well built & terrific performance, but that's about all they would write.
I couldn't care less about your feelings. You've already been told what a waste of time you are when you only quote what you want to respond to & completely ignore anything that pertains to it before/after. You can think things sound dumb & incorrect all you wish when you construe a post to just 1 sentence.
You quoted 1 sentence I made about the Veyron & immediately quoted a sentence well after concerning it and the F1. The first sentence was in comparison to Christian & his innovative solutions; I thought it was fairly obvious as I used Legend's own words. Thanks to your selective quoting, you combined 2 different parts of a post to make it look contradicting.
So you like posting for the sake of it.
That's how it reads responding to you & why I'm treating you like an asshole. You're simply not worth a reply knowing it'll be just downsized to 1 statement. It's why I had you on ignore before & why I'm considering it again.
But, since it's technically a new day here, I'll take more of an action, apologize, and leave the thread.
Last edited:
- 3,202
- Murcie LP710
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
But again I never said the CCX was better then the Veyron, I have only tried to refer to the Agera despite how much you want to talk about the previous Koenigsegg's.
Also I Never said it was Surpiror I said it had Innovative parts on it Surpiror to what The Veyron has, the Suspension for example.
These are all your words not mine, you have tried to discredit Koenigsegg's achievements simply because of the Veyron and all im saying is use some common sense and look at how each was made.
And again I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, im only talking about the Agera.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,526
- Texas
Please, post them, then as there are none listed for any of the models here.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/koenigsegg-agera-r
http://fastestlaps.com/models/koenigsegg-agera-973-ps
http://fastestlaps.com/models/koenigsegg-agera-r-1156-ps
http://fastestlaps.com/models/koenigsegg-agera-s
http://fastestlaps.com/models/koenigsegg-agera-x
http://fastestlaps.com/models/koenigsegg-agera
The Agera wasn't surpassing the Veyron SS at the time, either. Superior in what? Technology wise, sure. Side-by-side, it makes the car ride as smooth as a Veyron does. Lap wise? Well, that's a given with or without the system.
I have already given the man acknowledgement. It's you who is touting about how superior the technology is in a car that came out 7 years after the other. It's likely almost expected.
- 3,202
- Murcie LP710
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/suzuka
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/spa-francorchamps
As I insinuated, you might want to rethink your phrasing.
...You're saying the Veyron went from non-existent to existing and holding the production car record within 2 months? Wow. Impressive.
Last edited:
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
Braking and Acceleration the Suspension is also a big factor in the braking and this has been proven in side by side tests, I can also add cornering G and it's Carbon Kevlar construction which allows it to be significantly lighter then the Veyron.
Because the Veyron SS came out in 2005?
That car was an evolution over the regular Veyron no matter how you put it, it is lighter uses more Carbon Fibre, has different Tyres, Aero profile, different interior materials and a significantly different tune to it's engine to get much more power then the Original, you can't say it's the exact same to the 2005 model.
and still a company like VW shouldn't have any issue staying ahead of the game with their resources, the fact is this is just a hero car play toy for them, with koenigsegg it's their bread and butter and every car pushes their own capabilities to the limit. While VW is happy just releasing Limited versions of the same thing that have a different colour and a fancy name.
Last edited:
McLaren
Premium
- 45,526
- Texas
Semantics say the One:1 is not recognized by Koenigsegg as being an Agera, though. According to them, the Agera RS derived from the One:1 & is the successor to the previous Agera R. However, it's close enough for me, so you are right.
