GTP NASCAR SPRINT CUP S3 Champs: RFLX_Niop, Joe Gibbs Racing, Toyota
- Thread starter MustangRyan
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- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
I am watching the replay of yesterday's race, and it looks like everyone needs a refresher course in situational awareness and holding their line. I am going to document every single incident from yesterday's race (that I can find), and attempt to figure out what went wrong that caused the accident.
Before I get started, I can already tell you that the majority of the accidents were caused when two cars both ran side-by-side too close to each other in the corner. Daytona is not a track that is conducive to three-wide racing. As such, when you run two-wide through the corner, it's NOT a good idea to run in what would be lane 1 & 2 in a 3-lane track. You need to run in lane 1 and 3, leaving lane 2 as a buffer between yourself and certain trouble. Cars get loose, cars push, cars wiggle, and cars slide up and down in their lanes when the tires get worn. You all know this, and you should all expect it by now. Running door-to-door in the corners is a recipe for disaster, and it needs to stop sooner than later. Give each other a fair amount of room, and 80% of these accidents would probably stop happening.
Before I get started, I can already tell you that the majority of the accidents were caused when two cars both ran side-by-side too close to each other in the corner. Daytona is not a track that is conducive to three-wide racing. As such, when you run two-wide through the corner, it's NOT a good idea to run in what would be lane 1 & 2 in a 3-lane track. You need to run in lane 1 and 3, leaving lane 2 as a buffer between yourself and certain trouble. Cars get loose, cars push, cars wiggle, and cars slide up and down in their lanes when the tires get worn. You all know this, and you should all expect it by now. Running door-to-door in the corners is a recipe for disaster, and it needs to stop sooner than later. Give each other a fair amount of room, and 80% of these accidents would probably stop happening.
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
If your referring to my wreck, it was my fault and misjudgement. 100%. I should have stayed in line.
- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
Lap 2 - 00:01:02 - Dowhat13 gets a clean bump from JoeOfTheFire in the short straightaway leading to turn 1. The bump pushes dowhat out of line to the right, which typically happens when three or more cars are all lined up together bumping. Dowhat enters turn 1 on the outside of Joe, and attempts to get the draft of the car in front of him to pull himself clear of Joe so he can get back down in line. Midway through turn 1 and 2, dowhat crowds down real tight trying to get to the draft on the inside lane ahead, clipping the front bumper of Joe in the process. That contact caused dowhat to spin out. The top 7 cars got away clean, with positions 8-14 all losing the lead draft.
Joe could have let up to let dowhat back in line, though he wasn't obligated to do so.
Dowhat should have realized that Joe had the nose of his car on his inside and stayed in the outside lane until reaching the backstretch. Pulling down in the middle of the corner with a car to the inside is what caused the accident.
Joe could have let up to let dowhat back in line, though he wasn't obligated to do so.
Dowhat should have realized that Joe had the nose of his car on his inside and stayed in the outside lane until reaching the backstretch. Pulling down in the middle of the corner with a car to the inside is what caused the accident.
- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
Lap 2 - 00:01:29 - Dowhat13 is getting going again after the last accident, rejoining the track on the backstretch. He has engine damage and suspension damage at two opposite corners. The exact moment that he goes from grass to pavement, his suspension damage also unloads. This throws his car hard to the right, where it collects Mule, putting both drivers hard in the wall.
There was absolutely no way dowhat could have known that his damage was going to unload at that moment, or which way it was going to throw his car when it did. It left him with no way to reasonably stop this accident from occurring. Mule was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
There was absolutely no way dowhat could have known that his damage was going to unload at that moment, or which way it was going to throw his car when it did. It left him with no way to reasonably stop this accident from occurring. Mule was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
Lap 3 - 00:02:14 - Mule goes into turn one, and blatantly wrecks dowhat13 as payback for a perceived dumping on the previous lap. Mule goes as far as to drive down on to the apron before swerving all the way back to the right, turning himself into the wall in the process.
This is the type of blatant behavior that will result in disqualifications, docking of points, or suspensions in the future. This is absolutely not going to be tolerated in this league at any time. If you think you were the victim of intentional wrecking, you need to take it up with your car owner after the race. Your car owner will take it up with me, and I will review the accident.
If Mule had waited for a review and not taken matters into his own hands, he would have known that what happened on lap 2 was not intentional. He could have saved himself and dowhat a needless third altercation on track, and unwarranted future hostility.
This is the type of blatant behavior that will result in disqualifications, docking of points, or suspensions in the future. This is absolutely not going to be tolerated in this league at any time. If you think you were the victim of intentional wrecking, you need to take it up with your car owner after the race. Your car owner will take it up with me, and I will review the accident.
If Mule had waited for a review and not taken matters into his own hands, he would have known that what happened on lap 2 was not intentional. He could have saved himself and dowhat a needless third altercation on track, and unwarranted future hostility.
- 2,931
- England
- JoeOfTheFire
With me and dowhat, I was feathering the throttle slightly to try and let him in, but not enough. I had 2 other options that probably would have avoided the accident: let off completely and risk making everyone behind me check up and possibly wreck each other, or go keep my foot down 100% so that I pulled more alongside him and let him know I was still below him.
- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
I saw that you were off the throttle, even when you gave the bump that nudged him out of line to start the whole series of events. I know you were holding the yellow line as tightly as you could, but there is only so far you can go before you're on the apron. There was a lot more track to the outside that should have been utilized, especially on lap 2 of 50. Four cars could have parked side-by-side between the yellow line and the wall if they were as close as you two were running. Lane 2 of 4 is a great lane to run in, as long as there isn't a car in lane 1.
- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
Lap 9 - 00:07:00 - Furinkazen gets a good run down the backstretch, attempting to pass Dexter on the outside in turn 3. Furi has a big head of steam, but all the cars in front are running the inside, and Dexter is following in their draft pulling back forward. The inside line runs in what would be lane 2 of 4, while Furi is in lane 3 of 4. Furi comes down just as Dexter pushes up. Their cars touch, and around they go. Of the 10 cars in the lead pack, 6 get away clean.
As stated above, Furinkazen knows he should have stayed a little higher to prevent the contact. He tried to close the door on the pass too soon, as he was not quite yet clear.
When running in the outside lane, all drivers absolutely need to leave at least one car's width between themselves and the cars to the inside. If you think of Daytona as a 3-lane track, cars should run in lanes 1 and 3 in the corners. If you think of Daytona as a 4-lane track, you should probably try to run halfway sprawling lane 1 & 2 and halfway sprawling lane 3 & 4. You have to leave adequate space between the inside and outside lines of traffic, or these types of accidents are going to continue to happen.
As stated above, Furinkazen knows he should have stayed a little higher to prevent the contact. He tried to close the door on the pass too soon, as he was not quite yet clear.
When running in the outside lane, all drivers absolutely need to leave at least one car's width between themselves and the cars to the inside. If you think of Daytona as a 3-lane track, cars should run in lanes 1 and 3 in the corners. If you think of Daytona as a 4-lane track, you should probably try to run halfway sprawling lane 1 & 2 and halfway sprawling lane 3 & 4. You have to leave adequate space between the inside and outside lines of traffic, or these types of accidents are going to continue to happen.
- 871
- Naples,Florida
- Jakob_Nascar88
- RSS Jakob 39
Good thing I am reading this.
- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
Lap 42 - 00:33:35 - Almost a mirror image of Joe/Dowhat, but with Knelly and Crazy. Knelly is pushing Crazy, while Crazy is riding right behind ACDC/Dexter. A little bump pushes Crazy up out of lane 1, and into lane 2. The resulting draft from ACDC/Dexter pulls Knelly up just enough that when Crazy pulls back down to get back in line, he clips Knelly's front bumper, spinning them both around. Crazy spins back up on track, collecting Mudd and DriveTheGuard88 at the start of the back stretch.
This is another incident where it all happens so fast that you don't really realize what you did wrong until after it happened. Crazy thought he was clear to pull back down when he wasn't. While Knelly was a lap down to Crazy, he was clearly working with Crazy, trying to help him keep pace with the JGR teammates working together ahead of them. Knelly didn't have time to slow down, just like Crazy probably didn't think Knelly had time to be inside of his rear quarterpanel. This is a case where an extra quick glimpse in a mirror, or at a zoomed-in race map might have helped prevent the contact.
This is another incident where it all happens so fast that you don't really realize what you did wrong until after it happened. Crazy thought he was clear to pull back down when he wasn't. While Knelly was a lap down to Crazy, he was clearly working with Crazy, trying to help him keep pace with the JGR teammates working together ahead of them. Knelly didn't have time to slow down, just like Crazy probably didn't think Knelly had time to be inside of his rear quarterpanel. This is a case where an extra quick glimpse in a mirror, or at a zoomed-in race map might have helped prevent the contact.
- 5,676
- Ontario
Pretty much this. I acted before thinking, assuming he just drove right into me for no reason. Everything's cleared up now between us, which is good.
Just to let everyone know, this NOT how I race, and if this had been a "real" points race, there's no way I would have done it. If I ever do something like this again, I'll just leave the series myself, as that's not how I ever want to act, as it really is shameful.
Off to the Miata race now. Wish me luck, guys!
- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
Lap 42 - 00:33:55 - DriveTheGuard88 is going down the backstretch at a greatly reduced speed, due to the engine damage suffered from the wreck with Knelly/Crazy/Mudd a few seconds earlier. Upon entering turn 3, DriveTheGuard turns down from the far outside lane to the far inside lane to pass Crazy, who is still trying to get back up to speed himself up against the wall. DriveTheGuard pulls down right in front of a four-car freight train, resulting in a pile-up that was 100% preventable. The four cars were going 197mph entering turn 3, glued to one another, and the yellow line. DriveTheGuard was going 140mph when he pulled down right in front of the group of cars, rather than waiting for them to fly by.
As the leader of the four car group that was rapidly closing, I repeatedly announced that our group was coming by on the low side, so that this exact accident would not happen. Originally, this accident was attributed to suspension damage unloading, but that had happened 7 seconds before the accident, on the back stretch, without any resulting loss of car control. Of the six cars in the area, 2 got away mostly unscathed, while the other 4 lost significant time.
This accident should have been prevented by increased situational awareness. The four car group clearly announced their intention to cleanly pass on the inside over the voice chat. Crazy was glued up against the wall, leaving plenty of room for a safe pass. We don't require that all drivers have a headset, but all drivers need to make sure they are able to hear and understand what is said in voice chat, even if they aren't able to provide voice chat to the group. It is imperative that drivers be able to hear and understand what each other are saying, to prevent these types of accidents.
In general, we should probably also have a rule that if you have just wrecked, and are trying to get back up to speed, you need to not change lanes at all until all cars have safely passed you. Hold your line as straight as you can, and let the cars at speed find their way by without having to guess which way you are going to go.
As the leader of the four car group that was rapidly closing, I repeatedly announced that our group was coming by on the low side, so that this exact accident would not happen. Originally, this accident was attributed to suspension damage unloading, but that had happened 7 seconds before the accident, on the back stretch, without any resulting loss of car control. Of the six cars in the area, 2 got away mostly unscathed, while the other 4 lost significant time.
This accident should have been prevented by increased situational awareness. The four car group clearly announced their intention to cleanly pass on the inside over the voice chat. Crazy was glued up against the wall, leaving plenty of room for a safe pass. We don't require that all drivers have a headset, but all drivers need to make sure they are able to hear and understand what is said in voice chat, even if they aren't able to provide voice chat to the group. It is imperative that drivers be able to hear and understand what each other are saying, to prevent these types of accidents.
In general, we should probably also have a rule that if you have just wrecked, and are trying to get back up to speed, you need to not change lanes at all until all cars have safely passed you. Hold your line as straight as you can, and let the cars at speed find their way by without having to guess which way you are going to go.
- 2,931
- England
- JoeOfTheFire
Well now, our race just wouldn't have felt complete if someone hadn't collected me at some point.
Ever since I switched back to my original season 1 and 2 car for this series, I've had nothing but bad luck at Daytona and have returned to my old form where I was the one getting caught up in seemingly every major accident. After I had to use the #99 for the rest of season 2, my bad luck seemed to vanish and pass on to you, but it's back to me now I'm in the #43 again, as shown by my performances in the speedweeks races so far:
WSM @ Daytona Road: N/A (thought I'd include this ayway since it's part of our 8 speedweeks races).
IndyCar season finale: spinning out from putting a wheel below the line on two separate occasions. The first one caused a caution and mini-big one. With the second one I could have easily caused another caution, but managed not to and kept it as a single car incident, allowing teammate knelly to eventually win.
Nationwide Winter Testing: first lap incident caused by having to check up due to what was happening in front of me, getting into the wall, and leaving those behind me with nowhere to go.
Nationwide Drive4COPD 300: caught up in first lap incident.
Sprint Cup Bud Shootout: second lap incident with dowhat.
NASCAR trucks season opener: ???
Daytona 500: ???
IROC season opener: ???
- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
Lap 48 - 00:38:30 - Another situation where a clean bump pushes a car slightly out of line. RedPartyHat cleanly bumps Dexter on the backstretch, and Dexter's car jumps out of line to the left. Dexter tries to jump back in line behind ACDC, but the front bumper of RedPartyHat is there. The unintentional hook nearly spins dexter around, but the wall actually straightens his car out, keeping him from losing much momentum. Both cars continue on, mostly unharmed.
This is just like Joe/Dowhat and Knelly/Crazy, except it came with 2.5 laps to go and was for the race lead. You can't expect dexter to not try to get back in line to help his teammate, just like you can't expect redpartyhat to let off the throttle and let him back in line. They both just got very lucky that it didn't cause a worse wreck here.
This is just like Joe/Dowhat and Knelly/Crazy, except it came with 2.5 laps to go and was for the race lead. You can't expect dexter to not try to get back in line to help his teammate, just like you can't expect redpartyhat to let off the throttle and let him back in line. They both just got very lucky that it didn't cause a worse wreck here.
- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
Lap 49 - 00:39:05 - Dexter drives down into turn one, gets under redpartyhat, and rides him all the way up into the wall. This is clearly intentional, and is another example of the type of driving behavior that will not be tolerated going forward.
My guess is that Dexter may have thought that the near wreck on the previous lap was an intentional attempt by red, when it's pretty obvious in review that it was not. Even if it had been an intentional attempt to wreck him, it wasn't Dexter's place to come back and settle the score.
It is important that everyone remain calm and let me sort out reviewing incidents after the race, instead of losing their cool and doubling the amount of crap I have to sort through afterwards.
My guess is that Dexter may have thought that the near wreck on the previous lap was an intentional attempt by red, when it's pretty obvious in review that it was not. Even if it had been an intentional attempt to wreck him, it wasn't Dexter's place to come back and settle the score.
It is important that everyone remain calm and let me sort out reviewing incidents after the race, instead of losing their cool and doubling the amount of crap I have to sort through afterwards.
- 1,359
- NJ
- GTP_Rph
He intentionally went underneath me, below the yellow line, in turn 2 and put me in the wall and he even admits to doing so in an earlier post.. Your explanation really doesn't relate to how I remember things.
- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
RedPartyhat
How about the post I made just above yours?
- 1,359
- NJ
- GTP_Rph
Damn, I'm slow sorry lol. Thought the lap 48 incident you stated was the one pertaining to me my bad
Well I hope we can all forget this race and start preparing for next Saturday
- 3,408
- Reigate, Surrey
- Knelly
Not entirely mate, won the Indycar race in Speedweeks, and the Bud Shootout was more about figuring a couple of things out. Didn't quite go to plan, but wanted the replay to help prepare for the 500 this week.
As for mine and Crazy's incident Drop, bang on. Like Joe said with his, I was out the throttle I believe, as much as I could be with cars behind. I do have my map at 2, but you know at those speeds and the lack of time you have, this was almost unavoidable from my part at least. Holding my line as usual.
If you can confirm though that I was out the throttle, that would be good. 👍
As for mine and Crazy's incident Drop, bang on. Like Joe said with his, I was out the throttle I believe, as much as I could be with cars behind. I do have my map at 2, but you know at those speeds and the lack of time you have, this was almost unavoidable from my part at least. Holding my line as usual.
If you can confirm though that I was out the throttle, that would be good. 👍
- 1,870
- Chicago
- CrAzY_bAsSiSt_83
These kinds of incidents suck but what can you do about it other than be more aware of the cars around you. I thought I had room but I was wrong. I should have pulled up higher and swung around the tail of the pack. Thats probably whats best for everyone to do when they are in that situation. Just move up high a little and let the inside cars go by. You can tail them onto the straightaway. When that crash happened Knelly I was no way mad or anything. I consider these particular incidents "racing incidents". We were pushing really hard, having fun driving in lead pack behind ACDC. This kind of crap happens.
- 3,408
- Reigate, Surrey
- Knelly
Yes mate, I was a lap down at the time but wanted to race in the lead pack and push someone. I gave both you and Mudd some hard bumping through that spell (but did call out if you wanted me to leave you two alone, as I was a lap down).
I would say in hindsight, giving up your position and hitting the back of the pack is exactly the right thing to do, but heat of the moment and all that. This is how IRL incidents generally happen, can't be helped but can be avoided in hindsight.
This incident happened three times I believe? It seems to be our own version of "The Left Side Spin".
I would say in hindsight, giving up your position and hitting the back of the pack is exactly the right thing to do, but heat of the moment and all that. This is how IRL incidents generally happen, can't be helped but can be avoided in hindsight.
This incident happened three times I believe? It seems to be our own version of "The Left Side Spin".
- 5,629
- North Carolina
- Droptop2001gt
You're absolutely right, Crazy. 👍 If it's not the last lap or two of the race, this is definitely what everyone should do if they get bumped up out of line. Even if you think you are clear to pull back down, you probably are not. It's better to be safe than sorry, especially at Daytona.
- 1,359
- NJ
- GTP_Rph
- Status
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