GTP Online Racing Bureau (GTP ORB) Now Hiring!
- Thread starter gogatrs
- 1,489 comments
- 47,918 views
- 354
- rejektedS15
Can I apply for an ORB sanctioning of my club-thing?
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=227442
Please evaluate.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=227442
Please evaluate.
- 7,424
- I Hate Stalkers
- gogatrs
Snaeper, I must say that you just saved this idea.
Just got back from Monterey.
I can do a little, but not much.
I'll check in every few days and keep everyone in line.
Voice my opinion when I feel the need to.
I think that I'll need either a few co-Bernies (hehe), or I need to let someone else take control.
Internet has been going beserk the past month. Phone company is :censored:ing me off!
Just got back from Monterey.
I can do a little, but not much.
I'll check in every few days and keep everyone in line.
Voice my opinion when I feel the need to.
I think that I'll need either a few co-Bernies (hehe), or I need to let someone else take control.
Internet has been going beserk the past month. Phone company is :censored:ing me off!
- 3,583
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
I think co-Bernies is a fine idea. This really is something that is awesome if we can all get together and push it out the door. I myself cannot run it alone, but I can certainly run it with a few others.
EDIT: Here are some racing series that I think everyone needs to look at. All I want you to notice is the details on the OP and other posts, take some inspiration.
Masi's WRC Championship
This is a beautiful and intuitive set up without being overwhelming. The fact that you need to disable auto-resize is about the only negative I can think of. We should strive to make all series OP's "resize" friendly while still looking good. Turning off resize can lead to problems while viewing other threads...
Cappucino Cup
... like this. This is a great and well run series that has the hammer down on professionalism. Good banners and lots of eyecandy while still being informative (Although I will admit that there does need to be a limit on eye candy... it can get distracting and a little overwhelming after awhile.) The one problem is that with auto re-size off... well... there's some huge ass images there. The tribute to Dan Wheldon is awesome but DAMN that's a big picture.
gippone's LMP Championship
This is by far one of the better setups of the three. It's beautiful without seeming overdone and on top of that there's full-race replays (!) which is outstanding.
The biggest reason we need to get ORB off the ground is because I see all of these acronyms in front of racing series and I have no idea what any of them mean! What do they do? The best of them exist only to keep the drivers pooled close so that they can advertise other series of theirs.... but after that there's really not much these organizations do!
Flyin' Miata Super Cup
Turbo's series is already quite successful (Season 3! Way to go man!) and his OP shows what simplicity can do. While I think a few more pictures might help new entrants get a feel for what's shakin', the text is ultimately very well laid out and has clean and simple banners highlight everything.
and now on to some ranting, just so you guys know what I'm about.
What I cannot stand (opinion time):
1. Please, I know that having real life racing-associated brands can look cool and gives your series an air of reality... but it ultimately serves no purpose other than to give that company completely free advertising. The stemming of the frustration comes from a point that I made earlier in that there are plenty of brands associated with gtplanet that are active in the Tuning and Photo forums as well as other places online, yet none of the owners of these brands are approached about involvement in racing series here on gtplanet, instead getting ignored for things like "YOKOHAMA" and "MOBIL 1". If they're paying to advertise on these series then we need to figure out how to make friends with the guys running those series.
2. One-make series. I, of course, agree that these are competitive and no doubt fun series to participate in, but the amount of them shows that there's a lot of effort being focused away from what could be very exciting multi-car/class battles. Most importantly, it's these kind of series that would make the most sense with getting in league with the various tuners in GT5. Imagine asking 12 tuners to make a tune/setup to your general specifications (obviously you can't restrict everything or the point would be moot) and then testing the tunes against each other. You'd then pick the four that are closest in time (these are not necessarily the fastest) and then instruct participants to pick one of the four tunes that they'll be using in the coming season.
3. Confusing Class layouts. I hate looking at "Eligible" car lists and scratching my head. "Sir, why do you have a Ferrari 458 street car and a Ford GT LM Spec II race car in the same class? That isn't even limited by performance points and therefor swaying in the aerodynamically superior Ford's favor?" Ohh! It's because the 458 and Ford GT race against each other on the track in real life (...?) and since the Ferrari 458 doesn't have a RM you figured that throwing the street car in there would be an acceptable substitute (...?).
4. Confusing Car regulations. "I understand you've done a lot of work to make sure these cars are competitive, but you're telling me I have to do everything to my car that you've laid out for me?" I guess these series are great for people who cannot tune cars on their own (I try but I fail), but with the proven-competitive PP system so readily available, why not just use that? Bottom line, looking at all of those car stats is overwhelming.
5. What I consider to be partial grids. Sometimes this can half make sense, other times I just cannot comprehend why some cars are disallowed. The LMP series that I linked to above is an example of this. Ignoring the fact that a lot of good Prototypes are apparently not on the list of approved rides, there's one that seems to be removed on paint scheme alone! Why is the Playstation ORECA Audi R8 allowed... yet the factory Audi R8 isn't?
6. Real life pictures. This is basically a slap in the face to all of the wonderful GT photographers out there. Why you cannot ask them to take some pics and then give them some serious kudos in your series OP is beyond me.
7. Long Races. This is one I have mixed feelings about, I hope you understand. Obviously long races are a challenge in themselves and worthy of all drivers attention in a series, also worthy of being included IN online series, but what happens if you start the field with 16 drivers and end with... 6? Not only has your prize gone down but say some of those drivers had connection issues 75% of the way through the race? They've just wasted a good chunk of time and gotten nothing from it but disappointment.
8. Long Schedules. There's a lot of awesome tracks in GT, I get it. Long schedules are also pretty awesome I'll admit, but we're not professional racing drivers and sometimes it's hard for most people to commit to racing a series over and over again on a set time reliably. And I would hate to have to forfeit my championship standings with 4 races to go after I've done 8 because my work schedule changed.
I would go on but then I'd get into nit-picky things that even I consider to be irrational (Racing series grids based on real racing series, RM's painted in audacious colors), so I won't bore you on top of making me look like a dictatorial fool.
EDIT: Here are some racing series that I think everyone needs to look at. All I want you to notice is the details on the OP and other posts, take some inspiration.
Masi's WRC Championship
This is a beautiful and intuitive set up without being overwhelming. The fact that you need to disable auto-resize is about the only negative I can think of. We should strive to make all series OP's "resize" friendly while still looking good. Turning off resize can lead to problems while viewing other threads...
Cappucino Cup
... like this. This is a great and well run series that has the hammer down on professionalism. Good banners and lots of eyecandy while still being informative (Although I will admit that there does need to be a limit on eye candy... it can get distracting and a little overwhelming after awhile.) The one problem is that with auto re-size off... well... there's some huge ass images there. The tribute to Dan Wheldon is awesome but DAMN that's a big picture.
gippone's LMP Championship
This is by far one of the better setups of the three. It's beautiful without seeming overdone and on top of that there's full-race replays (!) which is outstanding.
The biggest reason we need to get ORB off the ground is because I see all of these acronyms in front of racing series and I have no idea what any of them mean! What do they do? The best of them exist only to keep the drivers pooled close so that they can advertise other series of theirs.... but after that there's really not much these organizations do!
Flyin' Miata Super Cup
Turbo's series is already quite successful (Season 3! Way to go man!) and his OP shows what simplicity can do. While I think a few more pictures might help new entrants get a feel for what's shakin', the text is ultimately very well laid out and has clean and simple banners highlight everything.
and now on to some ranting, just so you guys know what I'm about.
What I cannot stand (opinion time):
1. Please, I know that having real life racing-associated brands can look cool and gives your series an air of reality... but it ultimately serves no purpose other than to give that company completely free advertising. The stemming of the frustration comes from a point that I made earlier in that there are plenty of brands associated with gtplanet that are active in the Tuning and Photo forums as well as other places online, yet none of the owners of these brands are approached about involvement in racing series here on gtplanet, instead getting ignored for things like "YOKOHAMA" and "MOBIL 1". If they're paying to advertise on these series then we need to figure out how to make friends with the guys running those series.
2. One-make series. I, of course, agree that these are competitive and no doubt fun series to participate in, but the amount of them shows that there's a lot of effort being focused away from what could be very exciting multi-car/class battles. Most importantly, it's these kind of series that would make the most sense with getting in league with the various tuners in GT5. Imagine asking 12 tuners to make a tune/setup to your general specifications (obviously you can't restrict everything or the point would be moot) and then testing the tunes against each other. You'd then pick the four that are closest in time (these are not necessarily the fastest) and then instruct participants to pick one of the four tunes that they'll be using in the coming season.
3. Confusing Class layouts. I hate looking at "Eligible" car lists and scratching my head. "Sir, why do you have a Ferrari 458 street car and a Ford GT LM Spec II race car in the same class? That isn't even limited by performance points and therefor swaying in the aerodynamically superior Ford's favor?" Ohh! It's because the 458 and Ford GT race against each other on the track in real life (...?) and since the Ferrari 458 doesn't have a RM you figured that throwing the street car in there would be an acceptable substitute (...?).
4. Confusing Car regulations. "I understand you've done a lot of work to make sure these cars are competitive, but you're telling me I have to do everything to my car that you've laid out for me?" I guess these series are great for people who cannot tune cars on their own (I try but I fail), but with the proven-competitive PP system so readily available, why not just use that? Bottom line, looking at all of those car stats is overwhelming.
5. What I consider to be partial grids. Sometimes this can half make sense, other times I just cannot comprehend why some cars are disallowed. The LMP series that I linked to above is an example of this. Ignoring the fact that a lot of good Prototypes are apparently not on the list of approved rides, there's one that seems to be removed on paint scheme alone! Why is the Playstation ORECA Audi R8 allowed... yet the factory Audi R8 isn't?
6. Real life pictures. This is basically a slap in the face to all of the wonderful GT photographers out there. Why you cannot ask them to take some pics and then give them some serious kudos in your series OP is beyond me.
7. Long Races. This is one I have mixed feelings about, I hope you understand. Obviously long races are a challenge in themselves and worthy of all drivers attention in a series, also worthy of being included IN online series, but what happens if you start the field with 16 drivers and end with... 6? Not only has your prize gone down but say some of those drivers had connection issues 75% of the way through the race? They've just wasted a good chunk of time and gotten nothing from it but disappointment.
8. Long Schedules. There's a lot of awesome tracks in GT, I get it. Long schedules are also pretty awesome I'll admit, but we're not professional racing drivers and sometimes it's hard for most people to commit to racing a series over and over again on a set time reliably. And I would hate to have to forfeit my championship standings with 4 races to go after I've done 8 because my work schedule changed.
I would go on but then I'd get into nit-picky things that even I consider to be irrational (Racing series grids based on real racing series, RM's painted in audacious colors), so I won't bore you on top of making me look like a dictatorial fool.
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Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,753
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
I do agree with most of the opinions you gave out. They are quite a bother. Plus the things you mentioned above your opinions were also a good thing to point out. I feel the same way for 90% of the things you've said.
- 3,583
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
I had another thought I wanted to run past any and all of you. I think ORB should try to focus on creating new types of events while still doing old events in really new ways that are easy, intuitive and revolutionary. Since we'll have access to people who are good and willing to sit in, we can host events like traditional scored/judged Drifting events, or staged rally's with active members (Everyone would start off, do a lap around and then come to a stop in front of the start/finish line. Stewards would then send each car off in certain time increments and upon completion of the lap, we'd start the race in the "Fastest First" order which would easily determine who was the winner/loser? Just a thought).
Collecting some information that I would prefer was public so you all know what I'm doing, don't mind me if you don't want to.
Tuners (Logging active tuners that meet my desired criteria):
Top Performance Tuning
RKM Motorsport
Clueless Tunes
Cone Killer Racing
RVR Tuning
Assorted:
Team Shmo Drifting
Oval Tunery
Vintage Tuning Garage
Photographers:
Ceiling Fan's gallery
EDIT: I would humbly ask everyone to please subscribe to this thread!
Also, what are some ideas that you think ORB should do that are either un-seen improvements to current racing series, whole new racing series altogether or are popular racing series that ORB should re-create/approach without modification?
Keep these things in mind: Series should be simple in set up and overall rules complexity (or at least make an honest attempt to not needlessly over-complicate things), should be geared towards keeping interest levels up and driver attrition (the rate at which drivers grow bored and leave) low. Let's hear your ideas so we can shape ORB easier. I want us to find the magic formula that allows new series to be interesting and successful!
Collecting some information that I would prefer was public so you all know what I'm doing, don't mind me if you don't want to.
Tuners (Logging active tuners that meet my desired criteria):
Top Performance Tuning
RKM Motorsport
Clueless Tunes
Cone Killer Racing
RVR Tuning
Assorted:
Team Shmo Drifting
Oval Tunery
Vintage Tuning Garage
Photographers:
Ceiling Fan's gallery
EDIT: I would humbly ask everyone to please subscribe to this thread!
Also, what are some ideas that you think ORB should do that are either un-seen improvements to current racing series, whole new racing series altogether or are popular racing series that ORB should re-create/approach without modification?
Keep these things in mind: Series should be simple in set up and overall rules complexity (or at least make an honest attempt to not needlessly over-complicate things), should be geared towards keeping interest levels up and driver attrition (the rate at which drivers grow bored and leave) low. Let's hear your ideas so we can shape ORB easier. I want us to find the magic formula that allows new series to be interesting and successful!
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- 1,283
- GTP_FreakinWolfy
- The Pp system is flawed. Example One out of the plethora I could give you - the Lancia Stratos at 440pp is much faster than 90% of the other pre-80's cars until they are bumped up to 460pp.
- Also, I suggest that you not include Praiano in the list of tuners as he really isn't good. He simply pumps out 2345235 tunes every week. And don't forget the Oval Tunery and the Vintage Tuning Garage
Otherwise I again, agree with all you have said, and I'll be happy to help with the running of this after the techincal part has been figured out.
- Also, I suggest that you not include Praiano in the list of tuners as he really isn't good. He simply pumps out 2345235 tunes every week. And don't forget the Oval Tunery and the Vintage Tuning Garage
Otherwise I again, agree with all you have said, and I'll be happy to help with the running of this after the techincal part has been figured out.
- 3,583
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
The PP system isn't perfect, of course! But it's an excellent starting point and it allows a lot of flexibility for drivers to tune a car to their desires. It's also a simple limiting factor in the event that cars DO have an obvious performance difference despite their PP level, simply allow everyone to have more points to play with, or allow that one car to have less. Besides, I kind of like the idea of having one car with an advantage as it makes everyone else work harder, then by the end of a season, the car gets dialed back (or removed altogether) and now everyone's guessing which cars will be the next fastest.
The testing that i've conducted with 500PP race cars (Testing 40+ cars on Tsukuba, doing only one lap as opposed to trying for the fastest lap as that would get time consuming and the changing tires might provide inaccurate data) on Racing hard tires has been quite positive however, with the margin from fastest to slowest falling under 3 seconds... and most of these cars were un-tuned/crudely-tuned and some were being driven by me for the very first time! I have no doubt that any performance advantage by a fast car can be erased by a good setup. And if both cars have good set ups that fit their drivers, then there should be some very good racing.
I appreciate your offer of help and I'll make sure to let you know what you can do when I know what needs to be done.
The testing that i've conducted with 500PP race cars (Testing 40+ cars on Tsukuba, doing only one lap as opposed to trying for the fastest lap as that would get time consuming and the changing tires might provide inaccurate data) on Racing hard tires has been quite positive however, with the margin from fastest to slowest falling under 3 seconds... and most of these cars were un-tuned/crudely-tuned and some were being driven by me for the very first time! I have no doubt that any performance advantage by a fast car can be erased by a good setup. And if both cars have good set ups that fit their drivers, then there should be some very good racing.
I appreciate your offer of help and I'll make sure to let you know what you can do when I know what needs to be done.
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- 1,283
- GTP_FreakinWolfy
That's not always the case though. I race in real life, and know a considerable amount about how to set up a car and despite my best efforts with the many many cars I tried testing I was exceptionally hard pressed to find another car to match it at 440, and experienced the same with the premium Nissan 300ZX at 500 and the M3 GTR at 550. In order to do a multi car/class race considerable testing and tuning needs to be done on all the cars included.
But, in any case you're welcome, and I'm up for most anything in terms of this.
But, in any case you're welcome, and I'm up for most anything in terms of this.
First off let me just say I absolutely love this idea. It finally looks like their may be some coherence coming to GT5 League Racing. I have a few ideas of my own to share...
PREMIER LEAGUES:
I understand that any Tier 1 league would be considered the de facto "highest-level of GT5 Online Racing", but perhaps once the ORB gains enough league support, a select 2-3 leagues could be chosen as "Premier" leagues, where perhaps these leagues would have their races marketed heavily and perhaps even gain viewers via Race Recordings that could be put on the main site. The idea here would be to have 2-4 well-established leagues which represent the top-level of GT5 competition in whatever race discipline is in question. For instance, Flyin Miata could be the highest level compact league, you could have a NASCAR league that represents the highest level of stock car racing on GT5, the best rally league, etc. These leagues would have a very particular selection process, and new drivers would be encouraged to work up to them. IDK, its something to think about.
POWER RANKINGS
Have you guys perhaps considered using some sort of a Power Ranking system based on points? For instance, you could have a Power Ranking or ORB Leaderboard which shows who are the best performing ORB drivers at a given time. Tier 1 league races would net you more points toward power rankings then, Tier 2, Tier 3, so on. The Power Rankings would encourage drivers to race in more leagues and it would also encourage other leagues to get their tier rating up.
VIEWERSHIP
In line with my earlier point about premier racing leagues, perhaps some leagues could start employing live or recorded race broadcasts to drum up viewers both here on GTP and around other racing communities interested in GT5. The idea is that we want to build up the credentials of certain outstanding GT5/GTP drivers by putting them on stage and allowing certain drivers to become known for their skill.
Perhaps I am a bit forward-thinking with some of this, but I'm interested to see how this ORB works out.
For what its worth, I've been running in a longtime GT5 League known as ICORS, and I'm quite sure the league owner Erikjef24 would be interested in getting our league ORB certified.
We'd love for you guys to check us out http://www.icors.webs.com
PREMIER LEAGUES:
I understand that any Tier 1 league would be considered the de facto "highest-level of GT5 Online Racing", but perhaps once the ORB gains enough league support, a select 2-3 leagues could be chosen as "Premier" leagues, where perhaps these leagues would have their races marketed heavily and perhaps even gain viewers via Race Recordings that could be put on the main site. The idea here would be to have 2-4 well-established leagues which represent the top-level of GT5 competition in whatever race discipline is in question. For instance, Flyin Miata could be the highest level compact league, you could have a NASCAR league that represents the highest level of stock car racing on GT5, the best rally league, etc. These leagues would have a very particular selection process, and new drivers would be encouraged to work up to them. IDK, its something to think about.
POWER RANKINGS
Have you guys perhaps considered using some sort of a Power Ranking system based on points? For instance, you could have a Power Ranking or ORB Leaderboard which shows who are the best performing ORB drivers at a given time. Tier 1 league races would net you more points toward power rankings then, Tier 2, Tier 3, so on. The Power Rankings would encourage drivers to race in more leagues and it would also encourage other leagues to get their tier rating up.
VIEWERSHIP
In line with my earlier point about premier racing leagues, perhaps some leagues could start employing live or recorded race broadcasts to drum up viewers both here on GTP and around other racing communities interested in GT5. The idea is that we want to build up the credentials of certain outstanding GT5/GTP drivers by putting them on stage and allowing certain drivers to become known for their skill.
Perhaps I am a bit forward-thinking with some of this, but I'm interested to see how this ORB works out.
For what its worth, I've been running in a longtime GT5 League known as ICORS, and I'm quite sure the league owner Erikjef24 would be interested in getting our league ORB certified.
We'd love for you guys to check us out http://www.icors.webs.com
- 1,283
- GTP_FreakinWolfy
That's the general plan with the Tier rating system. I was thinking that the Flyin Miata Super Cup would be one of them as R1600 has already given his blessing then beyond that we'll have to wait and see.
We had discussed a way to rank the drivers, but never actually came up with anything solid, but that is most definitely in the cards.
As for broadcasts, I personally am not sure how we would arrange that, but I really think that would be awesome.
And on that note here is my vision for the GTP ORB thread:
OP- Introduction to the organization/highlight video/glossary with links to everything important
Post 2- Rules/regulations (there's a lot there so it deserves it's own post)
Post 3- Promoted leagues with a short bit of advertising for each one
Post 4- Leaderboard/Links to race videos (if that is ever figured)
Post 5- Misc
We had discussed a way to rank the drivers, but never actually came up with anything solid, but that is most definitely in the cards.
As for broadcasts, I personally am not sure how we would arrange that, but I really think that would be awesome.
And on that note here is my vision for the GTP ORB thread:
OP- Introduction to the organization/highlight video/glossary with links to everything important
Post 2- Rules/regulations (there's a lot there so it deserves it's own post)
Post 3- Promoted leagues with a short bit of advertising for each one
Post 4- Leaderboard/Links to race videos (if that is ever figured)
Post 5- Misc
Interesting stuff. Assuming the ORB got big enough it wouldnt be a bad idea to host a webpage off site or see if Jordan would entertain the idea of dedicating a portion of the site to ORB info. It almost seems crude to have the ORB headquarters in a thread when it potentially could have so much impact.
- 3,583
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
That's the plan for the Premier Leagues. To have a handful Tier 1 events that are the most successful at the top.
That's a neat idea, although it would be ultimately up to ORB to move racing series up and down Tiers. If every race becomes a Tier 1 race... then why have other Tiers? It would require someone manage this full time, preferably someone that doesn't participate in the events themselves so as not to falsely boost their score for some kind of advantage, this person would most likely have to remain anonymous in order to prevent being bribed for points with cars etc.
This would certainly be cool, but it requires someone to be in the lobby capturing the race at all times. Something for the long term I'd say.
We'll check you guys out!
Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,753
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
True, this all could go down the drain. But as long as we have at least... 5-10 ORB admins committed to this, and a bit of series in league with us, then I think it'll go on for quite awhile.
Almost the end of October. I'm going to type up a draft on Friday and revise it a bit on Saturday. Thank-you early dismissal from school.
I'm probably going to end up looking through this thread at least 3 times over to get all the needed info.
I assume it'll take me a good 3-4 hours to complete. I can make a lot of typos, it'll take literally an hour just to revise the typing.As I've said before, I'm willing to devote myself to this, so I'll try my best to come up with something.
- 7,424
- I Hate Stalkers
- gogatrs
If I can read through all of Wardez's posts, I'm sure I wouldn't have a problem reading through your OP draft. 
Excellent suggestions guys.
And I can't tell you how many times I've received PMs about ORB sanctioning.
This could get out of hand very quickly. It'll be a lot to keep up with.
Excellent suggestions guys.
And I can't tell you how many times I've received PMs about ORB sanctioning.
This could get out of hand very quickly. It'll be a lot to keep up with.
Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,753
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
Oh really? How many PMs? 
Seriously, I'm quite curious.
Seriously, I'm quite curious.
- 1,283
- GTP_FreakinWolfy
I've had my fair share of PMs as well, so I would definitely take that as a good sign.
I'll be interested to see what you come up with for a OP ED (I think I shall permanently dub you Ed EliteDreamer) Just remember this is a rough draft and will be edited and adjusted so there is no need to kill yourself making it.
I'll be interested to see what you come up with for a OP ED (I think I shall permanently dub you Ed EliteDreamer
) Just remember this is a rough draft and will be edited and adjusted so there is no need to kill yourself making it.
Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,753
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
Alright. Why don't I ever get ORB PMs?
ED as in E Dee or Ed as in the name? Saying Ed bothers me a bit though.
ED as in E Dee or Ed as in the name?
Saying Ed bothers me a bit though.
Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,753
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
My username has been bothering me lately. It was the username I used when I was... 12? for my first account on PSN. I don't use it as I don't really like it.
Anyways, I do have one of Wardez's uber posts way back. It's this one. Any help on finding other useful posts will be gladly accepted. Other then the OP of course. 74 pages isn't too fun going through ya know.
Oh crap... I think I'm going to little too far in this My Little Pony thing. I just spent some of my time looking for a pony smilie I could use.
- 3,583
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
Anyways, I do have one of Wardez's uber posts way back. It's this one. Any help on finding other useful posts will be gladly accepted. Other then the OP of course. 74 pages isn't too fun going through ya know.
Just read Wardez's post and I have to say that I'm not liking the time trial process as being the only qualification to get a license.
I think that racing hosts/stewards need to recognize when a driver is doing good around other drivers and when they're not. This may not be necessary if there's only a small group of us, but if ORB gets to growing... the last thing I want is to have a grid where half the racers have a higher license than me yet are much poorer competitors because they know how to get around the track really fast but don't care for anyone else in the way.
This isn't WRS so the pure time trial method just simply can't work.
Solution: Hold events at certain scheduled times where drivers converge and are analyzed on their performance throughout the race. Mic's are disabled and chat is not encouraged to prevent other drivers from possibly falsely accusing someone of committing an act that might have been out of their hands (latency/lag issues). These are held just like Wardez's post suggests, but instead of TT's they're fully structured sample races that have 3-4 ORB staffers in them to watch the drivers as they compete and ensure everything is clean.
If the drivers have good performances on the track while around other competitors and if they show a good understanding of the rules (not re-entering the track when competitors are oncoming to hold position etc.) then they'll be given the appropriate license. Drivers can re-apply to raise their license level after completing a full season of a selected ORB racing series.
Why? Because I don't want to turn away drivers for the simple reason that they aren't fast enough. I want ORB to be 'easy'. Though I'm having difficulty finding the words to better describe what I mean.
Basically, I want to embrace drivers who can perform well with other drivers, because I think it will then be up to ORB to help them mount the task of becoming faster. I don't want to feel like ORB screens drivers only for the fastest, because every series will suddenly become a daunting task for any outsider looking in if we do. I want ORB to ask "Are you a good, clean and fair competitor? Great! Now don't you worry, we'll help you get up to pace."
Now, to elaborate on the general criteria my solution would look for:
-Does the driver exhibit general competence with the machinery? (Ex: Keeping it in a straight line, rear end does not overpower the front when going through a turn, minimal tire spin on acceleration)
-Does the driver perform consistently and at a steady pace? (Regardless of any disparity between other opponents)
-Does the driver exhibit patience and fairness while passing an opponent?
-Does the driver knowingly place himself into situations where he could collide with an opponent?
-Does the driver unknowingly place himself into situations where he could collide with an opponent?
-Does the driver exhibit suitable responses to avoid a collision with an opponent if he is able to do so?
-Does the driver respond in a correct and fair manner if he DOES collide with an opponent?
-Does the driver keep at least a minimum of two wheels on a hard surface at most times? (With the exception of passing an opponent)
-(Non-collision) Does the driver ensure that no action he takes forces another driver off of the track surface? And does he respond in a fair and correct manner if he does?
-Does the driver re-enter the track in a fair and timely manner to those around him?
To be continued...
Tests using rain, dirt, go-karts and shuffle cars would be the best method of analyzing (as well as training) drivers.
Rain: Car control, driver conduct in extreme situations, track etiquette.
Drivers will have to perform in extreme track conditions while in a professional manner. They may or may not use cars that they're familiar with. The test will involve cars from the "Recommended" tab that are NOT pre-selected, to ensure drivers are on as level a playing field as possible (i.e. no practicing with the TVR in the wet beforehand).
Dirt: Car control, proper overtaking, driver conduct in extreme situations.
Similar to rain.
Go-Karts: Car control in extreme situations, driver conduct, track etiquette.
Karts have the wonderful ability to brightly showcase a drivers defects in car control, since there's only one gear and no differential. Drivers must be able to perform in close and consistent racing as well.
Shuffle Cars: Proper overtaking, car control, driver conduct, track etiquette.
Drivers must show proper track etiquette with vehicles of varying levels of performance. Drivers must respect their position and others in various cars that are relatively foreign to them. They must also add in experience on hard tires.
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Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,753
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
Now to start my draft. This will be awhile. Also, if someone could do the introduction for me, that would be great. The greatest weakness I have in presentations, an intro. But I hope one of you can come up with something!
Edit: Actually, after thoroughly rereading Wardez's post, it seems that's all we really need to make our OP. Though, we need to finalize our decisions on sections 2, 3, 5, and 6. Possibly 8, but that could probably be done another day.
Reread his post here.
But I hope one of you can come up with something!Edit: Actually, after thoroughly rereading Wardez's post, it seems that's all we really need to make our OP. Though, we need to finalize our decisions on sections 2, 3, 5, and 6. Possibly 8, but that could probably be done another day.
Reread his post here.
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- 3,583
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
I had an idea for general universal series classification, to help classify new series in the ORB book as well as help drivers understand the basic idea of a new series before reading more in depth. Tuning and Model sub-classes are meant to work together so that a series has one of each. Example: Ford GT LM Super Stock Cup or Lexus IS Racing Concept Super Cup Multi-Spec. Obviously since the names get rather long, putting the sub-class in the name is entirely optional, but you would need to list the sub-classes near the top of the OP.
Tuning Sub-class:
Super Stock: Cars are run as they are, with small variances allowable to things like tires and brake balance (See: FMSC Season 3) Encourages driving talent over tuning talent.
Super Spec: Cars must be tuned to a select set of parameters as provided by the Series moderator and/or organizer. These parameters are different from the stock specification of the car(s). Encourages driving talent over tuning talent, but is a bit more specific in setup and slightly more difficult to create.
Multi-Spec: Similar to Super Spec, however multiple fixed specs are available to be selected by the drivers. Thus similar cars can have minor to moderate differences in set ups. Perfect for drivers who want a little mechanical edge but cannot tune cars for themselves due to time constraints/ineptitude (no offense meant as that last part applies to me in most instances
)
Open Spec: Simple, while the car(s) are fixed, any modifications and/or adjustments are allowed unless otherwise noted by the series organizer/moderator. It is suggested that these series use Time Trials or practice races (in addition to the standard ORB license qualifications) to ensure that the pace is still close and the series remains competitive.
Model Sub-class:
Super Cup: One type of car specifically selected from a single manufacturer is slated to compete against other cars just like it. (See: Most One-make races that populate the OLR section)
Cup: Similar to Super Cup, however the series is more lenient in terms of variations allowed to populate the grid. The leniency is tethered to the Organizers/moderators desires. Ex: An NSX Super Cup series would include all variations of NSX racing against each other, be they Acura or Honda, S Zero or Type R. Any NSX would be available unless otherwise noted by an official. Another example of Cup could be specifically limited to R32/R33/R34 GT-R's and any variations allowed.
Limited: Vehicles are limited to the options an organizer/moderator offers you. These vehicles can come from any manufacturer (as long as there's more than two) and are bound by whatever restrictions the organizer/moderator offers or approves. Ex: FWD Limited series includes any specific FWD vehicles that the organizer approves. Limited could also apply to origins of a specific car, like it's native racing series or where the car was built.
Unlimited: Unlimited runs on simple regulations that only require cars come from general aspects relevant to it's origins/drivetrain and not limited to a specific list of cars from an organizer (which is what Limited relies on). Ex: While FWD Limited means that you can pick from a list of FWD vehicles that have been pre-selected, an FWD Unlimited means you can pick any FWD vehicle you damn-well please! Unlimited series can limit whether or not they allow race cars as part of the selection however.
General Classifications
Street: Comfort/Sport Tires. Cars do not have aero unless they came with it from the dealership (Ex: TME Evo VI). Some minor performance modifications are permitted to balance the field but Engine mods, Turbo mods and Stage 2+ weight removal is not permitted.
Tuned/Tuner: Sport/Racing Tires. Cars Have rear aero and sport largely modified engines and bodies. These can be both modified stock cars or pre-tuned cars like the Spoon S2000.
Racing: Sports/Racing Tires. These include real racing cars from licensed series like DTM, Super GT and the FIA/ACO. It also includes fictional racing cars like the Race Mods, Touring Cars and LM cars.
Some cars that fit into a grey area include the TVR Speed 12 and most Tuners that have front aero. The grey also includes slower cars like the Spoon Fit Race car and the Lupo Cup cars. Another category under consideration is one for Supercars, essentially cars that are already considerably powerful.
Tuning Sub-class:
Super Stock: Cars are run as they are, with small variances allowable to things like tires and brake balance (See: FMSC Season 3) Encourages driving talent over tuning talent.
Super Spec: Cars must be tuned to a select set of parameters as provided by the Series moderator and/or organizer. These parameters are different from the stock specification of the car(s). Encourages driving talent over tuning talent, but is a bit more specific in setup and slightly more difficult to create.
Multi-Spec: Similar to Super Spec, however multiple fixed specs are available to be selected by the drivers. Thus similar cars can have minor to moderate differences in set ups. Perfect for drivers who want a little mechanical edge but cannot tune cars for themselves due to time constraints/ineptitude (no offense meant as that last part applies to me in most instances
)Open Spec: Simple, while the car(s) are fixed, any modifications and/or adjustments are allowed unless otherwise noted by the series organizer/moderator. It is suggested that these series use Time Trials or practice races (in addition to the standard ORB license qualifications) to ensure that the pace is still close and the series remains competitive.
Model Sub-class:
Super Cup: One type of car specifically selected from a single manufacturer is slated to compete against other cars just like it. (See: Most One-make races that populate the OLR section)
Cup: Similar to Super Cup, however the series is more lenient in terms of variations allowed to populate the grid. The leniency is tethered to the Organizers/moderators desires. Ex: An NSX Super Cup series would include all variations of NSX racing against each other, be they Acura or Honda, S Zero or Type R. Any NSX would be available unless otherwise noted by an official. Another example of Cup could be specifically limited to R32/R33/R34 GT-R's and any variations allowed.
Limited: Vehicles are limited to the options an organizer/moderator offers you. These vehicles can come from any manufacturer (as long as there's more than two) and are bound by whatever restrictions the organizer/moderator offers or approves. Ex: FWD Limited series includes any specific FWD vehicles that the organizer approves. Limited could also apply to origins of a specific car, like it's native racing series or where the car was built.
Unlimited: Unlimited runs on simple regulations that only require cars come from general aspects relevant to it's origins/drivetrain and not limited to a specific list of cars from an organizer (which is what Limited relies on). Ex: While FWD Limited means that you can pick from a list of FWD vehicles that have been pre-selected, an FWD Unlimited means you can pick any FWD vehicle you damn-well please! Unlimited series can limit whether or not they allow race cars as part of the selection however.
General Classifications
Street: Comfort/Sport Tires. Cars do not have aero unless they came with it from the dealership (Ex: TME Evo VI). Some minor performance modifications are permitted to balance the field but Engine mods, Turbo mods and Stage 2+ weight removal is not permitted.
Tuned/Tuner: Sport/Racing Tires. Cars Have rear aero and sport largely modified engines and bodies. These can be both modified stock cars or pre-tuned cars like the Spoon S2000.
Racing: Sports/Racing Tires. These include real racing cars from licensed series like DTM, Super GT and the FIA/ACO. It also includes fictional racing cars like the Race Mods, Touring Cars and LM cars.
Some cars that fit into a grey area include the TVR Speed 12 and most Tuners that have front aero. The grey also includes slower cars like the Spoon Fit Race car and the Lupo Cup cars. Another category under consideration is one for Supercars, essentially cars that are already considerably powerful.
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- 3,583
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
So guys, I was planning on starting two photo projects coming up here soon and I was hoping that we could use them to draw some publicity to ORB, especially using other avenues than the racing game.
Group Photo Project: I'm going to be starting a light group that will be involved with photography mostly. I'll be handling requests for people who need to photograph large fields, as well as complex pictures that are hard to re-create (Pace cars leading/following the field, mixed fields with specifically requested cars etc.) I'm not asking the ORB involvement to be heavy on this, but if you guys are available to volunteer to help, I'd love to put ORB's name in there to let everyone know that we're here to help.
Another project that I'd like to get ORB involved with (assuming I get permission and some instructions from the boss aka Jordan) is another photo project I want to head to get gtplanet.net's standard avatar selection updated. Movies, TV, Cars but most importantly in-game photos from Gran Turismo 5
Group Photo Project: I'm going to be starting a light group that will be involved with photography mostly. I'll be handling requests for people who need to photograph large fields, as well as complex pictures that are hard to re-create (Pace cars leading/following the field, mixed fields with specifically requested cars etc.) I'm not asking the ORB involvement to be heavy on this, but if you guys are available to volunteer to help, I'd love to put ORB's name in there to let everyone know that we're here to help.
Another project that I'd like to get ORB involved with (assuming I get permission and some instructions from the boss aka Jordan) is another photo project I want to head to get gtplanet.net's standard avatar selection updated. Movies, TV, Cars but most importantly in-game photos from Gran Turismo 5
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