GTP!! Where have we gone wrong? Can we fix it?

[Boundary Layer]

...thanks for contributing cosmic....


@Max_DC:

The suggestion you make about 'needing a new GT to create a common interest' is not a long term solution. The unison it'd create would be just as short-lived as the one you identified with GT4. Infact, since it is coming out on a new console, it would likely have even less of a unifying effect. Not everyone is going to have the PS3 by the time GT5 is released, I'll guarantee that.

I don't see what the problem is with GTP being subdivided into small interest groups, to be quite honest. I post almost exclusively in the drift forums [I'd estimate that over 95% of my posts have been made in the GT3 and GT4 drift forums]. And I'm fine with that. I would rather talk about my interests with people that share those same interests, than with people who have no knowledge of it. And that's exactly how GTP currently operates.

If you had everyone posting everywhere, then you'd end up with even more posts like the one cosmic just shared with us... [edit: it has since been removed] There would be no such thing as intelligent conversation because people knowledgeable, or with strong opinions in certain areas would be totally overwhelmed and hidden by meaningless posts. The topic of conversation would be lost barring any severe intervention from the mods, which people are apparently not fans of.

People do not visit this place exclusively for your own entertainment (and I'm sure you do realize this). We all have larger priorities and obligations in life than to sit on the forums all day to try and make others happy. People behave as individuals with individual interests - and that's natural.

 

[ALPHA]

I first joined GTPlanet in late 2001 as a complete internet forum newbie, with F- spello. I was posting willy nilly and spammed my way to a custom avatar in the post count exponential–ator orgy, that was the HMRCWG thread, (and got away with it). You just had to be on the stats – Pass and 'll, who? As far as I can recall in amongst the scrolling marquees and car club craze of way back when, everything was hunky dory. Progressively things have become stricter which was basically inevitable, but I don’t think it’s the main problem.

It [GTP] has a strict USSR-like censorship that now makes people scared to post.

You know that if that were true, your post would no longer exist.

You're misunderstanding the concept of this thread and what I posted.

Yes - you said it had "strict USSR-like censorship".

If that were true, you would not be allowed to make your comment in the first place - or at the very least it and any references to it would be removed as "subversive". Since you could make your comment - and did, AND followed it up - then it cannot be true.

This is.

I mean, if I ever saw a hyperbole and a simile sandwich, that’d be one. Exigeracer clearly within the context of the thread, compares GTPs policies as if they were “strict USSR-like censorship”. Hell, of course he doesn’t state that GTP has strict USSR censorship. Rather the fact that it seems as though GTP has a level of strictness comparable to that of an exaggerated USSR censorship policy.

It’s like saying that using #4b0082 coordinates better with GTP than its logo. Only to be challenged on the basis that design/colour coordination can’t be measured quantitatively, and that it is instead based on opinion, which in turn varies from person to person voiding the statement of any sort of validity. I personally see no point in why you’ve gone and picked out something to prove? Hell, you could’ve gone and used live4speed’s post to construct a church considering how wholey it is. Where’re the sources to backup his statistics, 99%, 1 in 100?

Again, nobody else went and disputed exigeracer’s statement, there wasn’t any need to. Surely someone of your intellectual nature (that is, if you say that you are, who you really are, and not a fat, hockey–playing lesbian, *cough*BX*cough*), would’ve seen the context and o’ so subtle connotations associated with exigeracer’s post. So really, why did you go and stir this up? Was it really necessary to go and prove yourself right?

You are after all, a bit of a GTP celebrity that’s paraded about from a clear majority of members’ signatures. What’s more, you have a Quality Posts badge, you’re obviously doing something right. Personally, I think this isn’t, the need to constantly demonstrate that you’re somehow superior by going after the pointless. It sure as hell doesn’t make posting here fun, why? You’ve always got to watch your back because the Faminator might just turn on you, *gasp*!

You are a great asset to the GTP community, knowledgeable and someone who’s willing to spend their own time to benefit others. It’s great, you’re allowed to express your opinion, however I think these little nitpicky got–to–be–right–all–the–time arguments really bring the general mood of the forum down. I don’t see it benefiting, and you’re not the only one doing it either…

*puts on flame resistant suit*

 

[Famine]

I don't follow.

How is comparing GTPlanet's moderation to something similar to Soviet rule in any way helpful or true?

In order for something to be "-like" then it must have some commonality with it. I don't believe that GTPlanet's moderation policies are anywhere near similar to, or sharing traits with, the former Soviet Union - we are allowed to express ourselves freely and no-one is cast out for merely uttering something which questions the status quo. We ARE asked, however, to moderate our language and post content with due regard to the likely age-group of the reader - GTP is PG, not R - and, where we cannot do that, moderators do it for us, pausing to let us know why they've done it and how we should avoid it happening again. We aren't whisked off after the slightest infraction (or indeed just on a whim) without warning. Of course GTP is, in truth, an autocracy (or maybe an oligarchy), but it's one we've all signed up to and have no requirement to continue attending.

Of course, it's not just my opinion. As I said earlier:

What's worth investigating is how GTPlanet is viewed by other forums. One of the better "other" sites out there, and I won't name names because I enjoy that site too, views us as both undermoderated and a place where kids hang out... Far from the overmoderated fascist state some people perceive us as being (*cough* Wity *cough*).

This is why I believed er's post to be in error and this is why I have commented on it. Does it need someone else to comment on it before I can? Why is discussing a point the "main problem" with GTP?

 

[Sting]

We ARE asked, however, to moderate our language and post content with due regard to the likely age-group of the reader - GTP is PG, not R - and, where we cannot do that, moderators do it for us, pausing to let us know why they've done it and how we should avoid it happening again. We aren't whisked off after the slightest infraction (or indeed just on a whim) without warning. Of course GTP is, in truth, an autocracy (or maybe an oligarchy), but it's one we've all signed up to and have no requirement to continue attending.

Well said Famine, and I agree with the points that you bring up here. There has to be a set amount of moderation to any forum to keep them in accordance with the guidelines, set out at the start of the forums existance.

I've made posts before, that a mod/admin has contacted me about as being dodgy, and I can understand where they are coming from.

 

[exigeracer]

I do not game at all anymore, and the last time I ran into to Gran Turismo boards, I stumbled into a thread discussing the plausibility of horses in GT5.

Yes - you said it had "strict USSR-like censorship".

If that were true, you would not be allowed to make your comment in the first place - or at the very least it and any references to it would be removed as "subversive". Since you could make your comment - and did, AND followed it up - then it cannot be true.

Please, I wouldn't have expected to have to explain something this simple to somebody like you. Do you understand that I am not posting in this thread as a citizen in the USSR, but as a foreigner looking on from an outside nation? GTP is the Soviet Union, and for me, this thread is not.

I am sure you had realised that it was an overstatement. Using the USSR comparison was only because it was an easy, commonly known system of censorship to use as a comparison. If I would have used "strict Sony Music-like censorship" it wouldn't have had the same effect on everybody, and you know it.

The bottom line is, if you get a bit emotional, or offend GTP or its members, you get 2 minutes for unsportsmanlike.

And Famine, ALPHA has some very good points that I, and even if nobody says so, others also agree with. Be a little more human than dictionary.

 

[Jimmy Enslashay]

I couldn't agree more with BoundaryLayer's comments.

What is wrong with GTP being divided into different sub-groups? GTP is similar to a school. Each sub-forum can be seen as a group of friends and each member can be seen as a student. You make friends with certain people, usually due to sharing some form of interest. You divide yourselves into groups, and everyone goes about their own business in their own time. However, as in a school, you do come across different people anyhow. In school, you come across them in the classroom or maybe in the playground. On GTP, you will eventually come across different people passing by your little group, or most likely in the Rumble Strip.

However, if you were to be around these certain people frequently, things wouldn't be as enjoyable anymore. You would be talking to people with whom you don't share many interests with at all, if any, and discussion would be dull. Things would slow down here even more.

If you allow these sub-groups to continue, people are allowed more enjoyment, as they can discuss their interests amongst each other freely within these groups, however, they must abide by the school's rules.

As I type this, I am seeing more and more similarities to a school. Heck, we have the school's typical smart-kid (nerd) Famine. The school's bullies/"cool" kids are everywhere. Hey, we even have our own set of kids that always turn up to school drunk (ahem, Dunc).

Typically, the younger students of a school will most commonly dislike and complain about the teachers and principal of the school, in our case, the moderators and Jordan. The older these students get, the less they seem to complain about the teaching staff and the principal, as they see that in most cases, those teachers are simply doing their job, as instructed by the principal.

Either way, people are going to complain about things within the school. Those teachers will listen, observe and take everything into account in order to find a way to make the students' time at school more enjoyable, whilst at the same time making it suitable for everyone. Things will be discussed with the principal, and action will be taken. Certain students will be dealt with when they breach the school's rules, be it a talking to, a detention, or even expulsion. I've even know people from the schools I have been to that have came back after expulsion in order to create havoc.

It's not easy to teach, guys. It's not easy to create a completely enjoyable environment, whilst still keeping it suitable for all to be a part of. There are going to be those who complain, those who break the rules, those who are immature and those who relate and understand. There are many good students here whom we are sorry that at certain times, those bad students can affect the enjoyment of your time here. The staff here are always working towards our goal of providing a safe, enjoyable and appropriate environment for everyone, whilst guiding certain members towards the right path. You just have to keep your head down, have patience and continue to do what you do best - and that is providing GTPlanet with some of the best quality posts on the internet.

 

[Niels]

Typically, the younger students of a school will most commonly dislike and complain about the teachers and principal of the school, in our case, the moderators and Jordan. The older these students get, the less they seem to complain about the teaching staff and the principal, as they see that in most cases, those teachers are simply doing their job, as instructed by the principal.

Either way, people are going to complain about things within the school. Those teachers will listen, observe and take everything into account in order to find a way to make the students' time at school more enjoyable, whilst at the same time making it suitable for everyone. Things will be discussed with the principal, and action will be taken. Certain students will be dealt with when they breach the school's rules, be it a talking to, a detention, or even expulsion. I've even know people from the schools I have been to that have came back after expulsion in order to create havoc.

It's not easy to teach, guys. It's not easy to create a completely enjoyable environment, whilst still keeping it suitable for all to be a part of. There are going to be those who complain, those who break the rules, those who are immature and those who relate and understand. There are many good students here whom we are sorry that at certain times, those bad students can affect the enjoyment of your time here. The staff here are always working towards our goal of providing a safe, enjoyable and appropriate environment for everyone, whilst guiding certain members towards the right path. You just have to keep your head down, have patience and continue to do what you do best - and that is providing GTPlanet with some of the best quality posts on the internet.

Well I think that the OLDER members want the old times back now. So the newer members arent complaining about the mod staff right now.

Anyway, in school there's a balance between being a fun school and an educational school. Schools can get too fun but then teachers wouldn't be able to teach their students something wich is the whole point of that school.

Here in GTPlanet we dont have to be...educational or something. The members of GTPlanet are here for a fun time, and thats the purpose of GTPlanet.

So I think we're being a bit too carefull here and trying to keep the balance like schools do. We're trying to prevent it from being too fun maybe. But some of you forget that we dont have to be educational at all. Stickies in the GT4 forums and stuff are all for fun too. Prize car lists are there, so you can enjoy your game even more.

Edit: Eventually the mods of this forum are still necesarry so GTPlanet wont change into chaos and all. But we still have a long (fun) way to go till we arrive to that point.

 

[Delphic Reason]

I couldn't agree more with BoundaryLayer's comments.

What is wrong with GTP being divided into different sub-groups? GTP is similar to a school. Each sub-forum can be seen as a group of friends and each member can be seen as a student. You make friends with certain people, usually due to sharing some form of interest. You divide yourselves into groups, and everyone goes about their own business in their own time. However, as in a school, you do come across different people anyhow. In school, you come across them in the classroom or maybe in the playground. On GTP, you will eventually come across different people passing by your little group, or most likely in the Rumble Strip.

However, if you were to be around these certain people frequently, things wouldn't be as enjoyable anymore. You would be talking to people with whom you don't share many interests with at all, if any, and discussion would be dull. Things would slow down here even more.

If you allow these sub-groups to continue, people are allowed more enjoyment, as they can discuss their interests amongst each other freely within these groups, however, they must abide by the school's rules.

As I type this, I am seeing more and more similarities to a school. Heck, we have the school's typical smart-kid (nerd) Famine. The school's bullies/"cool" kids are everywhere. Hey, we even have our own set of kids that always turn up to school drunk (ahem, Dunc).

Typically, the younger students of a school will most commonly dislike and complain about the teachers and principal of the school, in our case, the moderators and Jordan. The older these students get, the less they seem to complain about the teaching staff and the principal, as they see that in most cases, those teachers are simply doing their job, as instructed by the principal.

Either way, people are going to complain about things within the school. Those teachers will listen, observe and take everything into account in order to find a way to make the students' time at school more enjoyable, whilst at the same time making it suitable for everyone. Things will be discussed with the principal, and action will be taken. Certain students will be dealt with when they breach the school's rules, be it a talking to, a detention, or even expulsion. I've even know people from the schools I have been to that have came back after expulsion in order to create havoc.

It's not easy to teach, guys. It's not easy to create a completely enjoyable environment, whilst still keeping it suitable for all to be a part of. There are going to be those who complain, those who break the rules, those who are immature and those who relate and understand. There are many good students here whom we are sorry that at certain times, those bad students can affect the enjoyment of your time here. The staff here are always working towards our goal of providing a safe, enjoyable and appropriate environment for everyone, whilst guiding certain members towards the right path. You just have to keep your head down, have patience and continue to do what you do best - and that is providing GTPlanet with some of the best quality posts on the internet.

Well said, Jimmy...

I think GTP is doing just fine, really... This kind of thread comes around every few years, we all discuss it, and then go back to doing what we have been doing all along... Trying to keep GTP a friendly, and entertaining place to visit... Sometimes we are going to be viewed as "Pinko Commies" (*winks at Famine*), but we are just doing our best to keep constructive members happy, and abusive members on the other side of the door...

 

[Max_DC]

I couldn't agree more with BoundaryLayer's comments.

What is wrong with GTP being divided into different sub-groups? GTP is similar to a school

...

and that is providing GTPlanet with some of the best quality posts on the internet.

Well that is an interesting comparison... Maybe I sounded like I don't enjoy those subforums with its subcommunities. That is not the case. All I say is, that over a long period time this might lead into conflicts, as it often does in school.
The excitement before a new GT game arrives, let's say the year before the release.... first screens, first interviews, first car lists, first playable demo and finally those who are the first to hold their japanese copies in hand.
That is like a school festival, you know... where all those classes
( = subcommunties ) come together and celebrate. That can't be bad thing, huh ?
As I said, maybe I'm exaggerating, but imo the event I just described would bring back the focus on Gran Turismo and away from those community problems and maybe forms of overmoderation many people described in this thread. Maybe just because the mods would have a load of work to keep the GT5 forum clean and no time anymore for the other forums
Just to state that again, I've almost never been to the convoforum, I never had a problem with the moderatorstyle so far - it's the other way round tbh ( When I once reported a thread with massive piracy for example, the mods reaction was like lightning and I really appreciated that ).

 

[Famine]

Please, I wouldn't have expected to have to explain something this simple to somebody like you. Do you understand that I am not posting in this thread as a citizen in the USSR, but as a foreigner looking on from an outside nation? GTP is the Soviet Union, and for me, this thread is not.

I am sure you had realised that it was an overstatement. Using the USSR comparison was only because it was an easy, commonly known system of censorship to use as a comparison. If I would have used "strict Sony Music-like censorship" it wouldn't have had the same effect on everybody, and you know it.

The bottom line is, if you get a bit emotional, or offend GTP or its members, you get 2 minutes for unsportsmanlike.

Please read 2 posts up. I got your analogy, and I state that I believe it to be wrong and why I believe this.

And Famine, ALPHA has some very good points that I, and even if nobody says so, others also agree with. Be a little more human than dictionary.

I will not change who I am - for anyone.

You don't have to say whether or not you agree with ALPHA, or me, or anybody. You can "red-tick" posts, anonymously. Currently the balance of red-ticking on my posts seems to be in my favour so, as ALPHA says, I must be doing something right. It seems that, in the main, people agree with me being me more than they disagree. I don't especially care because I will remain me no matter whether people agree with it or not.


Quite why we're discussing me and my faults at this point I don't know. I merely pointed out that drawing comparison to a system of censorship similar to that employed in the former Soviet Union was neither helpful nor accurate, no matter how much you were exaggerating the point.

 

[Delphic Reason]

As I said, maybe I'm exaggerating, but imo the event I just described would bring back the focus on Gran Turismo and away from those community problems and maybe forms of overmoderation many people described in this thread. Maybe just because the mods would have a load of work to keep the GT5 forum clean and no time anymore for the other forums
Just to state that again, I've almost never been to the convoforum, I never had a problem with the moderatorstyle so far - it's the other way round tbh ( When I once reported a thread with massive piracy for example, the mods reaction was like lightning and I really appreciated that ).

It's already been said, bud... There is already a GT5 forum... All the latest news, screens, and general information is there before it is anywhere else (usually)... What you want us to do to, is beyond me... We can't make GT5 come any closer... Only time will do that... At the moment, there isn't much information surounding GT5... Only the "Vision" demo (which is just GT4 on PS3 hardware) and some rumours... As new information arises, the forum will become more active... Yet, that is only a short term flux... The GT forums move like a giant wave, up and down with the release of major titles... The Rumble Strip, Conversation forum, and Drift Forum, (etc...) Take more work from the mod staff, than the GT5 forum is requiring...

I really don't think this forum is "over-moderated"... I have been to far worse, and I haven't been to many that are better... I don't think many of you really understand how much work some of the moderating staff have to put in to keep this place running smoothly... It's not an easy job, and I think everyone is doing fine, although, constructive criticism is always welcome... My PM box is always open...

 

[Jimmy Enslashay]

Well I think that the OLDER members want the old times back now. So the newer members arent complaining about the mod staff right now.

Anyway, in school there's a balance between being a fun school and an educational school. Schools can get too fun but then teachers wouldn't be able to teach their students something wich is the whole point of that school.

Here in GTPlanet we dont have to be...educational or something. The members of GTPlanet are here for a fun time, and thats the purpose of GTPlanet.

So I think we're being a bit too carefull here and trying to keep the balance like schools do. We're trying to prevent it from being too fun maybe. But some of you forget that we dont have to be educational at all. Stickies in the GT4 forums and stuff are all for fun too. Prize car lists are there, so you can enjoy your game even more.

Edit: Eventually the mods of this forum are still necesarry so GTPlanet wont change into chaos and all. But we still have a long (fun) way to go till we arrive to that point.

How is GTPlanet not meant to be educational? It is a site that gives you information on the Gran Turismo series predominantly, giving you tips and showing you the tricks, educating you on the game, and on playing it.

The other sub-forums are there, too, for the same reason. A forum is primarily about discussion, which is the general definition of it. At GTPlanet, you discuss a mass variety of subjects, in which people debate on issues, educate one another, and be educated themselves.

Education is a massive part of an internet forum, whether you like it or not. In which case, a balance between education, fun and a site which is appropriate for all to view. You can't sit there and tell me you did not come to this forum to be educated and find information on either Gran Turismo, or a variety of different topics, can you?

All I say is, that over a long period time this might lead into conflicts, as it often does in school.

In which case, the "teachers" are there to rectify the situation by any means necessary, and in their capabilities. I'm sure a lot of teachers will tell you that it's not easy to teach and moderate a class of thirty children, let alone a forum of 85,000.

 

[Diego440]

And as more and more members become a part of GTP, so will GTP diversify into more and more sub-forums.

Take the GT4 Drifting forum for example. It all started as a drifiting thread in the GT4rologue section, which itself started as the later renamed "Rumour and Speculation" forum. The Drifting forum later became a thread in the GT4 forum, then a Stick in said forum. After that, because of the amount of people that were into it had risen, it became a GT4 sub-forum. And now it's on its way to become a complete forum by itself (or pretty darn close).

In much the same way, GTP has diversified itself creating many sub-forums. And inevitable, as more people come together here, more forums will be created. I think 3 years ago, when I became a member, there weren't even half the sub-forums that are around nowadays; and with every sub-forum you get a new group of interested people.

Change is unavoidable.

 

[Dave A]

Well I think that the OLDER members want the old times back now. So the newer members arent complaining about the mod staff right now.

To be honest I don't really care, the changes haven't effected my GTP experience much, why because I try not to debate with morons who just want to flame and I don't create a hundered threads a week. I have the odd gripe about the site now, I did back then. The way the mods run things has changed, but it's not had much of an effect on me.

Anyway, in school there's a balance between being a fun school and an educational school. Schools can get too fun but then teachers wouldn't be able to teach their students something wich is the whole point of that school.

Yeah and I think the site's struck the right chord. And more lax and there would be a lot more offensive and AUP violating posts on here. As it is, you can have as much fun as you want, as long as it's clean and posted in the right place.

 

[Niels]

Education is a massive part of an internet forum, whether you like it or not. In which case, a balance between education, fun and a site which is appropriate for all to view. You can't sit there and tell me you did not come to this forum to be educated and find information on either Gran Turismo, or a variety of different topics, can you? In which case, the "teachers" are there to rectify the situation by any means necessary, and in their capabilities. I'm sure a lot of teachers will tell you that it's not easy to teach and moderate a class of thirty children, let alone a forum of 85,000.

Well for that question, when I came here I intended to get some info on my favorite game series. I came here to look forward to GT4, talking about the game was fun. Then I soon focussed my attention to getting more fun out of GT3 by learning how to drift.
The stickies, were resources to help me learn it and get more fun out of GT3.
Then I focussed on GT4 drifting, that was for fun too trust me. Then I started a gallery, also for fun.

I don't think people start galleries for education or learning something. They like to take pictures and want to make them as best as possible, thats fun.
Drifting: for some fun and for some not. I never saw anyone that hates drifting in the drift forums because he wanted to learn it.

So back to my point: you only have to balance fun to forum rules. Not to educational stuff, thats just a thing that comes with having more fun. Because here you can learn drifting because you think it's fun, for example You will learn, but you will only learn it because you think drifting is cool and fun and you want to get into it more.

 

[ALPHA]

I don't believe that GTPlanet's moderation policies are anywhere near similar to, or sharing traits with, the former Soviet Union.

Good for you, and neither do I. An online community the size, and with as much maturity as GTPlanet is hard to come by. This is a clear reflection of the hard work put in by the staff over the years. I’m grateful this place exists and I’m sure will continue to be a hub for future Gran Turismo requirements.

Why is discussing a point the "main problem" with GTP?

It’s not the discussion of points themselves, rather the points being chosen. To be blunt, I think some points that have been debated are completely unnecessary, hey but this is my opinion, (mind you there could be some other Freds out there that share it as well).

Without a doubt, at times it feels as though there is an amount of intimidation here when posting. Has it been caused by this style of posting, the need for self promotion up into a pseudo member hierarchy? Or is it simply that with a bigger community there are all the more (yet proportionate), amount of those with hefty opinions to bash people wi– I mean share?

As Jimmy said, GTP is segregated into it’s own little niche environments (which works nicely), but what I think he’s failed to address is the segregation between members. Not between the staff and ordinary members, but within the members themselves. With GTP6 (I think), post counts were removed from the default template to help everyone sit at a level playing field because generally speaking on the internet, high post counts are seen as something respectable (which is like totally idiotic). What I’m attempting to get at is somewhere there is a divide between the regulars and the “greater good”, which at times can make GTP appear as quite a negative place to be part of.

Quite why we're discussing me and my faults at this point I don't know.

You were an incredibly easy target, rather ironic really .

I am curious if the immaturity levels tend to raise and lower in a cycle around new title releases. Those who have been here for three years wouldn't have seen what it was like around GT3. Anyone who has been around since the beginning? Jordan?

This kind of thread comes around every few years.

Yep, we’ve sort of been here before, back when the Drifting sub–forum was the essence of many inside jokes !

 

[Niels]

Good for you, and neither do I. An online community the size, and with as much maturity as GTPlanet is hard to come by. This is a clear reflection of the hard work put in by the staff over the years. I’m grateful this place exists and I’m sure will continue to be a hub for future Gran Turismo requirements.
It’s not the discussion of points themselves, rather the points being chosen. To be blunt, I think some points that have been debated are completely unnecessary, hey but this is my opinion, (mind you there could be some other Freds out there that share it as well).

Without a doubt, at times it feels as though there is an amount of intimidation here when posting. Has it been caused by this style of posting, the need for self promotion up into a pseudo member hierarchy? Or is it simply that with a bigger community there are all the more (yet proportionate), amount of those with hefty opinions to bash people wi– I mean share?

As Jimmy said, GTP is segregated into it’s own little niche environments (which works nicely), but what I think he’s failed to address is the segregation between members. Not between the staff and ordinary members, but within the members themselves. With GTP6 (I think), post counts were removed from the default template to help everyone sit at a level playing field because generally speaking on the internet, high post counts are seen as something respectable (which is like totally idiotic). What I’m attempting to get at is somewhere there is a divide between the regulars and the “greater good”, which at times can make GTP appear as quite a negative place to be part of.

You were an incredibly easy target, rather ironic really .

Now some members might go defend all of GTPlanet's members, but this post is definatly true. There are definatly some people that just post to get higher in the "member hierarchy" wich does excist here, no doubt.

These members need to stop with it and just post their honest opinions on stuff and respect new members just as much as they would respect Famine (just an example).

And instead of moving on, how can THIS be fixed? You can't deny it's a problem.

 

[Jimmy Enslashay]

Well for that question, when I came here I intended to get some info on my favorite game series. I came here to look forward to GT4, talking about the game was fun. Then I soon focussed my attention to getting more fun out of GT3 by learning how to drift.
The stickies, were resources to help me learn it and get more fun out of GT3.
Then I focussed on GT4 drifting, that was for fun too trust me. Then I started a gallery, also for fun.

There-in lies proof that GTPlanet mixes education with fun.

Either way, you enjoy this site. That's obvious by the fact that you continue to post and visit the forum. You've also just told me in the aforementioned quote that you've participated in certain areas of the site for educational purposes, and you've also cancelled out your own post by claiming that being educated on how to drift in GT3 was fun.

Too much education is not a problem at GTPlanet at all. Would you visit a forum if you were to never learn a single thing (albeit, that's somewhat impossible)? I doubt that. Education is a positive thing, and it also can be fun. I don't want to sound like some repetitive, boring teacher, but it is true.

I never saw anyone that hates drifting in the drift forums because he wanted to learn it.

Are you trying to rebut against my post by helping my argument? Your argument is that you don't like to visit a forum that educates you, yet you're basically saying that people have fun being educated? I'm lost. Maybe this illness I've come down with lately is affecting me.

And instead of moving on, how can THIS be fixed? You can't deny it's a problem.

NOTE: I don't want to seem like I'm picking on your posts, Niels, as I don't have a problem with this post at all, I'm just using it to base my next point.

How can it be fixed? Well, it's a tremendously difficult task. This sort of thing stems out into the greater society. A post count to some is something of an achievement or something to aspire to. Yes, it is wrong, but it comes in parallel to something of a class issue.

As you say, a higher post count to some is more or less establishing one's self in a higher class amongst the forums. We can't fix this issue. In the greater society, every person has a wish, whether they will admit it or not, to be at least placed in the middle class of society, and a large quantity of those people will aspire to be in the higher class. In general society, it is gained through wealth, friends, knowledge and power (which are all somewhat linked to wealth in one way or another anyhow). In a forum, notably GTPlanet, members seem to believe that a post count is the base of establishing one's self into the higher class. Though, from a Moderator's point of view, it is more on the quantity of quality you provide to GTPlanet, rather than quantity itself.

In shorter terms, changing the beliefs and mind-set of 85,000 people is a fairly rough task. Most members here would like to be known by most, be it GTPlanet-wide or within a certain sub-forum or fora. Most members of a society would like to be known by most, be it fame or locally. It's something that would be a largely difficult task for us all to achieve, but hopefully, this thread can be a starting point.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Stuff (read above)

His point is that GTP shouldnt focus on creating eduction. Eduction comes when people are having fun. If there is no fun there will be no education as people simply wont visit. However if there is fun you can garuntee there will be education.

Personally i think this thread has developed nicely and I think members are trying harder to "improve" GTP, at least in the rumble strip.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed in a mature way 👍

 

[Niels]

Yes exactly, I thought GTP's intention was to:
Having fun, and in the meanwhile just learn stuff with that, instead of:
Learning stuff because learning is fun.

There is a difference in the 2. You can have fun and while not noticing it, learn new stuff. You can have much fun in drifting for example and then in the process, you can unintenionally learn a new drift technique.
This is my personaly opinion on the purpose of GTP....or that's least why I'm here.
I'm not here to learn stuff because I think learning itsself is fun.

Small Fryz understands what I mean.
BTW for your note Matt, if this discussion gets annoying at any point, I didn't mean that either. Cause I can imagine such a discussion can get quite annoying after a while But I dont mind it

 

[eiriksmil]

In 2 more days I will have been at GTP for 3 years, in that time i really believe GTP has gone downhill. GTP feels a lot different now and i don’t enjoy it as much. Let me explain.

Back in the day GTP was a lot less strict, certain threads could be posted and they would stay open, where as now they would be locked. For example, Rumple Foreskin's big girls thread, and the thread about that fake 7'4 girl. I’m almost 90% sure those threads would have stayed open if they were posted 3 years ago. I believe that the moderators have changed significantly in the way they moderate. Instead of deleting a few posts in a thread it seems they just lock the entire thread. It’s almost like they moderate to cause no arguments, not moderate when an argument has taken place. This gives me the feeling that i can no longer post my mind about things in fear of offending someone or even *gasp* one of the 25? Mods/admins. Even if 90% of my replies could be civil, if the chance that some guy could get offended by it, the mods will remove it and if the mod is offended by it (which changes based on which mod has seen it) they will lock it. I have seen situations where some mods will post in a certain thread fully supporting it and having a good laugh, only to have another mod appear and lock it just because "they" feel it was inappropriate. Not only does GTP have 20 odd mods but it’s almost like those mods, moderate based on how "they" feel not on a set of guidelines. What some mods let slide, another gets offended or feels it’s inappropriate and locks it. I would like a little more consistency on the mods behalf, it either is ok or it isn’t, not its ok if "Bob" sees it but not if "Barney" sees it.

Another sign that GTP has changed, ever looked back to threads that are 3 - 4 years old? Notice how pretty much every thread that old has at least 1 - 2 banned members, if not more. This can show that the moderating changed, and that what was accepted from these members changed, which lead to them getting into conflicts with the mods then ultimately getting banned (in the end the mod will always win).

Now another thing has to be mentioned is it’s much easier to offend a member these days, and people are so quick to jump down each others throats and argue, which wasn’t how it used to be. Some members get offended at such stupid things then start a massive flame fest. Other members think that just because they don’t agree with something or don’t believe it, it is indeed wrong, which leads to arguing and flaming. I don’t believe this happened a whole lot back in the day.

So as you can see both the mods and some members have changed. Is it possible to restore GTP back to a friendly community which isn’t so strict? Where people don’t get offended so easily? Is it possible for the mods to have a rethink on their approach to moderating as frankly i don’t think their current approach is working. I don’t really know of an answer to this problem but I'm sure many other members out their will have a few ideas.

Some things have to change... But what? And how?

Well, sadly, this must be one of the most common situation for any forum existing. You go together with some friends, and start a forum. People you know, people your friends know, other people in your city, etc, registers. It's a small community, with, let's say... Members from Sacramento, CA, United States. As the time goes, more people around the US registers, and from being a small forum, with more-or-less the same people, you get new people with totally different cultures, different English language (something might be considered offendig, even if it isn't). Then other people from around the world registers. The people originally from Sacramento, might call a guy from New Zealand a noob, only because he is new. After all, he hasn't been here for the past 3 years. Maybe he would feel bad by this, more newcomers are shaking their heads, and starting pointing out bad moderators, etc, things that wasn't a problem some years ago.
The problem with a forum, is that by every member, the feel changes. You can't get the new members from India, to adopt Sacramento-humor/culture/feelings, etc. And you can't let the forum be less good only because of new members. A radical change will most definatly be good, but you'll always get the problem back.

When I started out on www.evolutionforums.com, it felt like a very good forum. It still does, but it feels totally different. I'm not sure if that's in a good way or not, but I can't go back to 2004.. I must accept how it is. And being a nice moderator from the start, will solve most problems.

I joined this forum in November 05. I don't see much of a change, but that's not the point.. I like it here. I like the combination of new members, and veterans. The moderators seems nice, and everything feels very right! 👍

Oh, and just an advise. No one must call a moderator a "nazi", or yell out that he/she is doing a bad job, or are too protective. That will just do things worse. For example, one 13 year old calls one moderator a "nazi", another moderator locks the thread. Then the whole staff will be regarded as "nazi", and people, mostly the newbies, will call the moderators "nazi", and demand a change in moderation..
To all of you: Remember, we are here of free will! If we don't like the forums, we can go somewhere else. Sitting in a chair and offending hard-working moderators won't help!! They are doing a lot for us!

Oh, one more thing. I'm 15 years old myself, but I'm a moderator at another forum.. I must say, there are intelligent and mature teenagers too. Don't use "teenager" as synonym for "bad behavior".

As I said, a very good forum! 👍

 

[Taurine]

Well personally I think the recent additions to the staff are a step in the wrong direction but as per usual, in one ear and out the other..

 

[Jordan]

Well personally I think the recent additions to the staff are a step in the wrong direction but as per usual, in one ear and out the other..

Who do you think would have been better for the job?

 

[F1GTR]

Maybe he means that we aren't exactly in a shortage of moderators?

 

[Dave A]

Were not in a shortage, but do you want to wait for us to be before you add to them, I wouldn't think so. If somone visits the site regular who achieves a certain standard of quality in what they add to the site, theres no reason not to make them mod's. It's not like Famine will start a campaign of terror and hurl warnings at everyone who says anything negative about Yorkshire.... Is it? I think it's a good move because I think Famine as Scaff are two of the most valuable members on here, they're informative, keep out of arguments that get flamed up and they're both regular here.

 

[El Gigante]

I think it's a good move because I think Famine as Scaff are two of the most valuable members on here, they're informative, keep out of arguments that get flamed up and they're both regular here.

Totally agree. They are both great guys and definitely to be mods.

 

[G.T]

Yes, I see nothing wrong with them to becoming Mods. Scaff is a very informative person in the GT4 sections, and Famine has always been informative and helpful everywhere. I don't see how that's a step in the wrong direction. I think it's a step in the right one.

 

[McLaren]

Well personally I think the recent additions to the staff are a step in the wrong direction but as per usual, in one ear and out the other..

Then why is it Famine has been offered moderatorship 2 times BEFORE these "changes"?

 

[Famine]

Well personally I think the recent additions to the staff are a step in the wrong direction but as per usual, in one ear and out the other..

Thanks for your support! 👍

 

[Diego440]

Thanks for your support! 👍

I thought you had to be a Moderator before becoming a Super Moderator?