GTP_Registry Discussion Thread (GT5)

  • Thread starter EDK
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I think it's not allright to change a (very good) system just to increase the number of participants.
Allthough I'm guilty myself for not submitting even when I ran 50 or more laps,compared my splits to the board,and concluded I'm allmost 1 full Div off pace.:guilty:
That's just my bad.Simply need a couple of hundred laps to make a slightly good result.
And if even that results in a negative handicap,so be it.Can't blame anyone except myself :)
The current Div's are a good overall indication.

The current leaderboard stands for something,you just simply know all the guys put loads of time/effort in it,and give all the best they've got.
That makes it a good comparison for your own results.
No use for somebody to post splits after he has only done 5 or 10 laps.(for example)
My 2 cents
 
Rikson
I think it's not allright to change a (very good) system just to increase the number of participants.
Allthough I'm guilty myself for not submitting even when I ran 50 or more laps,compared my splits to the board,and concluded I'm allmost 1 full Div off pace.:guilty:
That's just my bad.Simply need a couple of hundred laps to make a slightly good result.
And if even that results in a negative handicap,so be it.Can't blame anyone except myself :)
The current Div's are a good overall indication.

The current leaderboard stands for something,you just simply know all the guys put loads of time/effort in it,and give all the best they've got.
That makes it a good comparison for your own results.
No use for somebody to post splits after he has only done 5 or 10 laps.(for example)
My 2 cents
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I don't think it's a question of 5 or 10 laps vs. Normal effort.

It's a matter of 2 hours vs. 4 hours vs. 8 hours. I know if I do not spend at least 4, I will not reach my handicap. And to achieve my qualifier time, I spent 10 hours. I just don't have that time anymore, I'm lucky if I can run 3 or 4 sessions.
 
When I was a kid I played golf, and that system made a lot of sense. When you scored below your handicap, it was lowered proportional to how low your score was (like how it is here). But when you scored worse it was only raised one minimum step, and only if you went a certain margin above your handicap, like a buffer of 2 strokes if I recall.

Ex. if my handicap was 5.0, and the minumum step was 0.1 (it varied depending on your hcp):

If I scored 5 below my handicap I was lowered 5*0.1=1.0. If I scored par, +1 or ,2 there was no change. If I scored worse than +2 it was raised 0.1 (regardless of how bad I scored).

You'd just have to determine an appropriate "buffer" and the amount to raise a handicap per event. This meant that your handicap usually reflected how well you *could* play, not how you most often scored.
 
I'm all for the changes. At this fairly mature stage in GT5 and GT5-WRS, adjusting the terms to improve submission rates by even a small percentage will yield better turnout, in theory. Better turnout is good for the racing series.

@Vaxen, @Kevin, @Admins - 👍 :cheers:

Matt
 
I think having a minimized negative handicap is a better idea than eliminating it altogether. I am happy with the current system but if we "need" to change it at all, having no negative effects seems to defeat the purpose behind having a handicap in the first place.

Just my (not well thought out) two cents.
 
For now, the plan is to eliminate the negative handicap, but keep an eye on things. If we start seeing some unexpected behavior, we'll make some further modifications.

Regardless, we will still track everyone's "true handicap", but this will not be used for determining promotions. We may use it to calculate event handicap times, or to determine if we are seeing too much of a gap between promotion and true handicap. (And also to have a good data point for the occasional demotion request that we receive.)

The goal is essentially to place racers in a division where they will find a good competition, when they put in a sufficient effort.
 
I've recently had a look at the performances of drivers who have recently joined the registry, and there appears to be a striking tendency for new drivers to under-perform compared to their initial handicap.

For example, there were three new drivers (GTP_Jalmenara, GTP_Penelope and GTP_David17) who submitted times in last week's event. All three are at least Division 2, yet all of them ended up with Division 4 level times. I've checked the results of many other newer drivers, and most of them have been unable to match their initial handicap in the actual events, sometimes by a big margin.

The concern I have is that most new drivers will end up in a division that is too high, and they will stay in their division unless they request demotion. I am arguably almost an example; I probably spent only an hour or so on the qualifier, yet I qualified in D1 Bronze. It took me 7 events to finally achieve a D1 Bronze time (week 107), which was in a combination that suited me particularly well, yet still required substantially more time and effort than I spent on the qualifier.

Additionally - I'm only speculating here - many of these new drivers could end up demotivated by their handicap results and may potentially quit, or else request to be demoted. Last year I sent a PM to Vaxen requesting demotion, and just yesterday GTP_iainoflo posted a demotion request here.

Of course, without actually knowing exactly how new drivers are assigned to divisions, I can't say for sure. If anyone has a definitive answer to any of this, I'd be delighted to hear it.
 
gm matthew
I've recently had a look at the performances of drivers who have recently joined the registry, and there appears to be a striking tendency for new drivers to under-perform compared to their initial handicap.

For example, there were three new drivers (GTP_Jalmenara, GTP_Penelope and GTP_David17) who submitted times in last week's event. All three are at least Division 2, yet all of them ended up with Division 4 level times. I've checked the results of many other newer drivers, and most of them have been unable to match their initial handicap in the actual events, sometimes by a big margin.

The concern I have is that most new drivers will end up in a division that is too high, and they will stay in their division unless they request demotion. I am arguably almost an example; I probably spent only an hour or so on the qualifier, yet I qualified in D1 Bronze. It took me 7 events to finally achieve a D1 Bronze time (week 107), which was in a combination that suited me particularly well, yet still required substantially more time and effort than I spent on the qualifier.

Additionally - I'm only speculating here - many of these new drivers could end up demotivated by their handicap results and may potentially quit, or else request to be demoted. Last year I sent a PM to Vaxen requesting demotion, and just yesterday GTP_iainoflo posted a demotion request here.

Of course, without actually knowing exactly how new drivers are assigned to divisions, I can't say for sure. If anyone has a definitive answer to any of this, I'd be delighted to hear it.
Click to expand...

I just responded to GTP_iainoflo's post. In my opinion, maybe these new drivers just spent alot of time doing the qualifier to get the best result that they could, and now when it comes to doing the time trials, maybe they simply arn't putting in the effort that they did in the qualifier. I'm not saying that is the case, I'm just saying that that could be a possibility. One could put everything they have into the qualifier to get the highest divisional ranking they can get, but then when it comes time to compete, they either don't put that same effort into it or they just get discouraged too easily when they see their spots on the leaderboard and just give up. Again, not saying this is the case, its just my opinion.

When I first started, I struggled to keep up with my division. I had to put extra time in each event to get the finishes that I did. I just don't think demoting people is the way to go. Its not really going to accomplish anything. Just my feelings on the matter.
 
Different cars/tracks can be a discouragement if one does not place as high as their expectations. Take Mitch as an example on determination and stick it out. Give yourself time to get settled in!!
 
Firecracker
Different cars/tracks can be a discouragement if one does not place as high as their expectations. Take Mitch as an example on determination and stick it out. Give yourself time to get settled in!!
Click to expand...

Yes, you got to have determination. In my case, I have played in all sorts of pain and circumstances. After my recent back operation, I popped a couple stitches and started leaking blood all over. My solution, I put on an adult diaper to keep the blood off my playseat seat and kept going.:crazy: Now, I would not suggest others follow suit and such practice could be called insane, but that is just one example of my determination and how serious I am about my improvement here. Determination will go a long ways. I would like to think I am proof of that.
 
Here's my 2 cents.

In 3 races, GTP_iainoflo has 2 podiums and a 5th in his division.
I don't know what kind of instant gratification you are looking for, but three top five finishes in as many races with 2 third place finishes should be enough for anyone!

Maybe you've ran more and not posted, but there are a lot of guys in this league that would love to be able to post those kinds of stats as a Div 3 driver.

My 2 cents.
 
ConRollins
Here's my 2 cents.

In 3 races, GTP_iainoflo has 2 podiums and a 5th in his division.
I don't know what kind of instant gratification you are looking for, but three top five finishes in as many races with 2 third place finishes should be enough for anyone!

Maybe you've ran more and not posted, but there are a lot of guys in this league that would love to be able to post those kinds of stats as a Div 3 driver.

My 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Couldn't agree more. I think maybe some of these newer members who have done well in the qualifier and placed in the higher divisions just expect to do well and get podium finishes every week. And when they don't, they feel dejected and not worthy of their division. It just doesn't happen like that. You're going to have good weeks and bad weeks, you just can't let the bad weeks discourage you. Also, success doesn't happen overnight or even for weeks. Sometimes it just takes longer, you just have to keep working at it.
 
Exactly as Ron and Mitch have said. Anyway it's about having fun racing, not winning as most of us are programed as youths. Winning is fun, but not everything.
 
Firecracker
Exactly as Ron and Mitch have said. Anyway it's about having fun racing, not winning as most of us are programed as youths. Winning is fun, but not everything.
Click to expand...

Speak for yourself....remember, I'm the one thats played in a diaper before. :lol: Admittedly, not my finest hour, but whatever it takes to get the best finish I possibly can. I'm just overly competitive I guess, but still have fun at it. 👍

BTW, my girlfriend did take pictures...for anyone with the old response of, "Pics or it didn't happen." :lol::dopey::crazy::P
 
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GTP_CargoRat
Speak for yourself....remember, I'm the one thats played in a diaper before. :lol: Admittedly, not my finest hour, but whatever it takes to get the best finish I possibly can. I'm just overly competitive I guess, but still have fun at it. 👍
Click to expand...

Disregard...getting tired.
 
Let me think... yep.

While I am in this thread, I would just like to add my support to the tweaking of the handicap. Having said that, my absence from here was more to do with lack of time than being worried about my handicap.
 
GTP_CargoRat
GTP_CargoRat
Speak for yourself....remember, I'm the one thats played in a diaper before. Admittedly, not my finest hour, but whatever it takes to get the best finish I possibly can. I'm just overly competitive I guess, but still have fun at it. Disregard...getting tired.
Click to expand...
In other words mind my own business? good enough, practice what you preach then!!
 
gm matthew
I've recently had a look at the performances of drivers who have recently joined the registry, and there appears to be a striking tendency for new drivers to under-perform compared to their initial handicap.

For example, there were three new drivers (GTP_Jalmenara, GTP_Penelope and GTP_David17) who submitted times in last week's event. All three are at least Division 2, yet all of them ended up with Division 4 level times. I've checked the results of many other newer drivers, and most of them have been unable to match their initial handicap in the actual events, sometimes by a big margin.

The concern I have is that most new drivers will end up in a division that is too high, and they will stay in their division unless they request demotion. I am arguably almost an example; I probably spent only an hour or so on the qualifier, yet I qualified in D1 Bronze. It took me 7 events to finally achieve a D1 Bronze time (week 107), which was in a combination that suited me particularly well, yet still required substantially more time and effort than I spent on the qualifier.

Additionally - I'm only speculating here - many of these new drivers could end up demotivated by their handicap results and may potentially quit, or else request to be demoted. Last year I sent a PM to Vaxen requesting demotion, and just yesterday GTP_iainoflo posted a demotion request here.

Of course, without actually knowing exactly how new drivers are assigned to divisions, I can't say for sure. If anyone has a definitive answer to any of this, I'd be delighted to hear it.
Click to expand...

I'm in that boat. Qualified D2G and haven't even come close to getting a TT time that was anything like D2 let alone D2G. I can tell you that I generally put in about 4 time the effort for a weekly TT as opposed to my qualifier yet I'm simply unable to meet the times needed.

This is just my opinion here but the qualifiers don't really test you across the broad range of skills you need for the TT's. I would have preferred maybe three tests using FR, FF and MR cars across different tracks and not just 2 sections of the green hell although I completely understand why these were chosen as they offer the best chance of forcing equal conditions on all entrants

I'm not about to give up trying but at some point it is going to become really disheartening and in that regard I have a huge amount of sympathy for iainoflo. I wish he wouldn't give in so soon but I can totally understand his perspective on this.
 
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I see some of you saying that you have to put more time in the Weekly TT's as you did on the qualifier.
Well, here's my view on it. The Qualifier is racing against preset times and in the Weekly TT you are racing against other people who want to beat you so IMO it's fearly normal you put more time in the TT than the Qualifier.
I know what you guys are going through as I had trouble keeping up in the beginning as well.
 
That's a valid point Speedy but I know in my case I seem to hit the wall pretty quickly in the TT's then spend an inordinate amount of time trying to get quicker without much success.

I am really humbled to have been given such a good division placing but am just concerned that so far I have shown little in the way of results to prove that I deserve that ranking. I think that concern may be true of other newcomers that don't quite achieve and so it naturally leads to questions like "am I in the right division ?".

I'll still keep plugging away though and who knows maybe one day I might actually get quicker :lol:

p.s. I don't want a demotion or anything just adding my two cents to the discussion here :)
 
ConRollins
Here's my 2 cents.

In 3 races, GTP_iainoflo has 2 podiums and a 5th in his division.
I don't know what kind of instant gratification you are looking for, but three top five finishes in as many races with 2 third place finishes should be enough for anyone!

Maybe you've ran more and not posted, but there are a lot of guys in this league that would love to be able to post those kinds of stats as a Div 3 driver.

My 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I see my name appearing a lot in this thread - and I'm not even part of the conversation.

As for the podiums, I think one was from a DQ, the other I actually earned.

Lets look at the statistics:

Week 107: Div 3 Silver Time; 3rd in Div - my best TT because I spent the most time on it. Still had a poor handicap, but best so far. One DQ in Div 3
Week 106: Div 4 Silver Time; 5th in Div - shockingly bad handicap
Week 105: Div 3 Bronze Time; 3rd in Div - second best handicap. Two DQ's in Div 3 to make me 3rd in Div 3

If I had submitted for the last TT, week 112 I would have gotten a Div 4 Silver result again.

So getting Div 3 Bronze through DQ's doesn't make me feel any better. It's only when I earn it that it's worth the effort. And I don't want instant gratification, I want to know where I stand though Divisionally. In the current system I feel like I'm being penalised for working hard. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the results correlate too well with my handicaps - I thought I would at least have gotten a negative handicap for week 107, but no - I didn't get my Div 3 Gold Par, despite working so hard on it, and getting a Div podium.

Point is, the handicap system is flawed or I'm not as fast as my Div 3 Gold placement.
 
Ultimately it depends on alot of factors, i quess we all have individual driving styles an a skill sets suited to different cars an tracks.. on my qualifier i qualified DIV 2 Silver with no abs an for me the SLS handled great without abs.. i race sometimes in the 3D3 Racing with abs because without the abs i wouldnt be on the same pace as the other DIV 2/3 guys this was down to the car an track.. Learning abs is nuts.. :/
 
iainoflo85
Hmm, I see my name appearing a lot in this thread - and I'm not even part of the conversation.

As for the podiums, I think one was from a DQ, the other I actually earned.

Lets look at the statistics:

Week 107: Div 3 Silver Time; 3rd in Div - my best TT because I spent the most time on it. Still had a poor handicap, but best so far. One DQ in Div 3
Week 106: Div 4 Silver Time; 5th in Div - shockingly bad handicap
Week 105: Div 3 Bronze Time; 3rd in Div - second best handicap. Two DQ's in Div 3 to make me 3rd in Div 3

If I had submitted for the last TT, week 112 I would have gotten a Div 4 Silver result again.

So getting Div 3 Bronze through DQ's doesn't make me feel any better. It's only when I earn it that it's worth the effort. And I don't want instant gratification, I want to know where I stand though Divisionally. In the current system I feel like I'm being penalised for working hard. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the results correlate too well with my handicaps - I thought I would at least have gotten a negative handicap for week 107, but no - I didn't get my Div 3 Gold Par, despite working so hard on it, and getting a Div podium.

Point is, the handicap system is flawed or I'm not as fast as my Div 3 Gold placement.
Click to expand...

Ok fair enough, but please keep this in mind: If you get on the podium because another guy gets DQ'ed, then you earned your spot on the podium. If a guy gets DQ'ed, it's because he either broke the rules in which case had he run fairly, he would never have been up there in the first place, or he cheated in which case he would have never been up there in the first place either had he not cheated.

The only case I can think of where you wouldn't deserve it is if all the guys in your division bow out just so you can get the win or a podium, and let's face it, that ain't gonna happen.

There is a saying in racing: A win is a win. Don't matter how you get it, it goes into the books as a win.

Hang on to your podiums, be proud of them, and race on.
 
I think part of it is getting used to being amongst very competitive peers. Friends and folks you race with online aren't necessarily great competition all the time. WRSers are. I was shocked how "poorly" I qualified and after finally seeing myself on a leaderboard I understood why. If you want to improve you have to aim for those in front. Asking for a demotion isn't necessarily going to make you better faster, though it is ultimately your own decision how you wish to participate.

I started in week 7. It took me until week 17 to crack the top 5 in my division and week 22 for my first podium. Finishing 50-60+ on the board wasn't necessarily uplifting but it made getting to the top of my division that much more satisfying. Food for thought. :)
 
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