GTP_WRS-Online : Academy/D-League Racing - Suspended Until GT7

[mohitraina91]

All the development guys should really review this video as the Wed evening race was ugly at the back during the start. Can't make the race but thought I'd reinforce the point being made by Sjaak.

I have a couple of questions.

I was running great first sectors but my middle sectors were just awful. I was losing 2 secs every lap. Do any of you fast guys use handbrake through the turns after the hairpin? Not sure why I'm losing so much time there. I think my lines are pretty good.

For the final chicane I've been running a fairly straight line coming in and downshifting through the left turn but I seem to be dropping a lot of speed. (I cross the start finish line at about 87mph). Any suggestions?

As a last question, on straights I seem to always fall back of cars ahead of me. I'm listening to the engine as well as watching the tach to know when to shift but I never seem to gain ground or even hold my ground???

Thanks in advance for the input.

Scott

No handbrake. I might do a write-up to explain what I did later tomorrow.

I was crossing line at 88 or sometimes 89 mph. You seem ok here. I preferred downshifting before the left though. Just concentrated on brake and gas, and not hitting the wall .

Shift at redline in this car. Shift early and you're slower in the next gear. My shifting speeds in km/h:
2nd - 63
3rd - 93
4th - 140

Usually I don't look at speeds while shifting, but I felt I had to in this car to get the most on the straights.

 

[WRP001]

I never use the hand brake.

The only things I can think of as far as straight line speed is you shift points are not quite right or your exit from the previous corner is really the cause. Everyone has the same gears so it's not that. You should shift after red line and just before the limiter... especially from 3rd to 4th. Also if you get a lot of wheel spin in the early gears it will affect your speed.

Just thought of this... for kicks try a couple laps with TCS 3... just to see if it's wheel spin that's causing your pain. I'm not suggesting you use TCS for the race, but just as a diagnostic tool in practice for a couple laps. If you see TCS kick in (control your throttle) when you exit then you are experiencing a lot of wheel spin that could very well be what's costing you forward grip and ultimately speed on the straight. If you don't notice any difference then we can eliminate that variable.

Also maybe you are not shifting early enough on exit. Some guys may be shifting "in the corner" as they need to bleed speed anyway and by doing it with a shift they get the shift lag out of the way so it's not hurting them on the straight. That tricky right about half way in the track is a great example where I do it. I could take that with 2nd or 3rd... 2nd might be easier actually as you get better turn in... but avoiding a shift on the straight helps a lot carrying speed into the following long section.

Also ask your questions in the Wednesday event thread... Twissy or Tidgney may not be watching here (not sure) and both of them are more scientific about their driving and faster. I watched them in practice to pick up the 3rd gear thing in that right and it shaved a few tenths of my lap. We can copy any answers here.

PS> On a replay check your apex speeds... are they the same as the faster drivers? They are a diagnostic... you could be too fast or too slow at apex or in a different gear... any of which could lead to sub optimal exits and straight line speed issues later in the straight.

 

[Tombstoneplt]

No handbrake.

I was crossing line at 88 or sometimes 89 mph. You seem ok here. I preferred downshifting before the left though. Just concentrated on brake and gas, and not hitting the wall .

Shift at redline in this car. Shift early and you're slower in the next gear. My shifting speeds in km/h:
2nd - 63
3rd - 93
4th - 140

Usually I don't look at speeds while shifting, but I felt I had to in this car to get the most on the straights.

Thanks Mohit. Do you hug the left before going into the chicane? I noticed some guys doing that. I was running in from about the middle of the track.

I'll run a few more laps with this car to see if shifting based on speeds would help.

Scott

 

[Tombstoneplt]

I never use the hand brake.

The only things I can think of as far as straight line speed is you shift points are not quite right or your exit from the previous corner is really the cause. Everyone has the same gears so it's not that. You should shift after red line and just before the limiter... especially from 3rd to 4th. Also if you get a lot of wheel spin in the early gears it will affect your speed.

Just thought of this... for kicks try a couple laps with TCS 3... just to see if it's wheel spin that's causing your pain. I'm not suggesting you use TCS for the race, but just as a diagnostic tool in practice for a couple laps. If you see TCS kick in (control your throttle) when you exit then you are experiencing a lot of wheel spin that could very well be what's costing you forward grip and ultimately speed on the straight. If you don't notice any difference then we can eliminate that variable.

Also maybe you are not shifting early enough on exit. Some guys may be shifting "in the corner" as they need to bleed speed anyway and by doing it with a shift they get the shift lag out of the way so it's not hurting them on the straight. That tricky right about half way in the track is a great example where I do it. I could take that with 2nd or 3rd... 2nd might be easier actually as you get better turn in... but avoiding a shift on the straight helps a lot carrying speed into the following long section.

Also ask your questions in the Wednesday event thread... Twissy or Tidgney may not be watching here (not sure) and both of them are more scientific about their driving and faster. I watched them in practice to pick up the 3rd gear thing in that right and it shaved a few tenths of my lap. We can copy any answers here.

PS> On a replay check your apex speeds... are they the same as the faster drivers? They are a diagnostic... you could be too fast or too slow at apex or in a different gear... any of which could lead to sub optimal exits and straight line speed issues later in the straight.

Thanks Tim.

I'll post the rest of any questions in the Wed thread. Thought some of the other development racers might gain from the responses here but I didn't think about the other guys not looking at this thread.

I do a review of my replay to see if I can pick up on some of the apex speeds, shift points, etc.

Scott

 

[mohitraina91]

Thanks Mohit. Do you hug the left before going into the chicane? I noticed some guys doing that. I was running in from about the middle of the track.

I'll run a few more laps with this car to see if shifting based on speeds would help.

Scott

Yes. I'm on that inside kerb anyway, and so are most people. It's riskier, but the long straight that follows helps payoff that risk.

 

[Tombstoneplt]

Yes. I'm on that inside kerb anyway, and so are most people. It's riskier, but the long straight that follows helps payoff that risk.

That must be the chicane in the second sector that you're referring to. I was actually asking about the quick R/L just before the start line. I should have been more specific.

 

[mohitraina91]

That must be the chicane in the second sector that you're referring to. I was actually asking about the quick R/L just before the start line. I should have been more specific.

Lol, umm I was on the left just because of my exit from the previous corner, but while braking I moved to the right. Doesn't effect your time I think.

 

[Tidgney]

All the development guys should really review this video as the Wed evening race was ugly at the back during the start. Can't make the race but thought I'd reinforce the point being made by Sjaak.

I have a couple of questions.

I was running great first sectors but my middle sectors were just awful. I was losing 2 secs every lap. Do any of you fast guys use handbrake through the turns after the hairpin? Not sure why I'm losing so much time there. I think my lines are pretty good.

For the final chicane I've been running a fairly straight line coming in and downshifting through the left turn but I seem to be dropping a lot of speed. (I cross the start finish line at about 87mph). Any suggestions?

As a last question, on straights I seem to always fall back of cars ahead of me. I'm listening to the engine as well as watching the tach to know when to shift but I never seem to gain ground or even hold my ground???

Thanks in advance for the input.

Scott

Personally I don't use the handbrake although it can help but I wouldn't recommend it either as it can normally end up with more wheel spin and spinning out ;p.

I've not watched your run, but the middle sector is where alot of time can be gained or lost, the best way to think about the middle sector is only use the brake once (After the straight at either the arrow on the track or grey board on the left), and control everything else with the throttle, and patience with roll in. If you find your back end is coming out, a quick jump to 3rd during the technical part of the middle sector is always worth doing. The exit on the final turn of Sector 2 is quite a key one, you really need to aim for the barrier (you might think your going to hit it but you should understeer away) but on the turn in just switch it to 3rd and balance the throttle until your ready to continue .

The last sector your wanting a deep entry to then get a straighter exit, and at the chicane I've found braking early and allowing a bit of roll allows you to get the right line to get a better exit (Much longer straight so would take priority over the entrance). A nice braking point I used for the chicane was just after the 50m board there's a shadow, quite a big blocky shadow, and as the sun doesn't move here it's a stable marker, you can use that as a braking point !

For the straights as people have mentioned if you change even remotely early you can loose time so it's something to be weary off, and wheel spin can cause this issue as well but that's all been mentioned above ;p!

Hope that helps !

 

[WRP001]

The exit on the final turn of Sector 2 is quite a key one, you really need to aim for the barrier (you might think your going to hit it but you should understeer away) but on the turn in just switch it to 3rd and balance the throttle until your ready to continue .

That's exactly what I picked up by watching you and Twissy on Tuesday. I tried to give Revoy and Scott a guide on that corner using this exact principle Tuesday night, but not sure it helped them... aim for the barrier and let the car push wide into the proper apex point... it's really hard to do consistently. I must say this was the one corner I had an advantage on gooners during the NA race and allowed me to stay with him most of the NA race, but the following section was impossible to pass so I could use it to full advantage.

at the chicane I've found braking early and allowing a bit of roll allows you to get the right line to get a better exit (Much longer straight so would take priority over the entrance). A nice braking point I used for the chicane was just after the 50m board there's a shadow, quite a big blocky shadow, and as the sun doesn't move here it's a stable marker, you can use that as a braking point !

The final chicane I took differently from the faster guys with a straighter entry (less left/right = less setup for optimal exit). I think my method was slower, but safer and more consistent for me. I didn't get the "roll" that you mention and probably lost a bit of time. But in draft my way was safer and just as fast as I could use the draft to pull back... also worked better in traffic because it gave me better vision.

I broke at the shadow between the 50 and 100 markers (not sure if it's the same one because it was definitely before 50). There is a blocky building shadow on the track surface to the left with two points jetting out of it to the right. I used the latter point on new tires to initiate braking and the first point in traffic or on older tires. From there I straight line aimed for the right side of the chicane trying to minimize any turning and shifted down to 2nd. Then just tried to use brake to get my speed right for the quick right/left around the barriers trying to hit both rumbles and maintain grip. Too much speed and you slide left on the first part which is very costly or slide right on the exit which is slightly costly... too little speed and you lose a bit of time, but it's not a disaster... error on the too little speed until you are in a flow. You come out in a great position to draft and risk is reduced.

I'd say this is a chicane with multiple approaches with different risk/returns. A more technical line can gain you time, but cost you consistency or a very costly accident unless you have a very high skill level. Gaining two tenths per lap is pretty significant over 30 laps (6 seconds)... but it only takes one accident or one lost position due to a wall hit to give that back and then some.

PS> I'll capture a bit of video from the race later.

 

[WRP001]

Here are a few sample laps from my car in the NA race. I would show the POV from the faster drivers, but you can't really trust the inputs from an online replay... they often suffer from micro lag and it looks like they are braking way late when in fact they aren't.

Anyway, laps 4-6 which were on warm tires, but not too worn so I was able to do 1'43s. The first lap I was following closely and had to adjust my brake points early in the lap so it's a good example of how to follow. The final lap and a half Mohit and Tidgney started getting away and the laps were more like solo laps.

Not perfect laps by any means... you can see I hit the wall on the exit of that tough left in T2 as I misjudged my turn in point and didn't stay tight enough to the apex. That's when they finally broke me in the draft, but they started battling later in the stint and I was on their bumper before Tidgney's first pit.


Turn 1 has to be taken much more conservatively when following as does the complex at the bottom of the hill after the back straight. You can follow safely and still exit the turn on their tail, by backing off early and braking early with less than 100% brake and then feathering the brakes a little as you approach the apex to close up the gap. Saves tires and fuel too!

 

[GTPskills]

Count me in!!!;-)

EDIT: Just signed up...

 

[Allibubba99]

I am attending practice today but it will be 40 minutes from now

GTP_3D3 lounge now open for practice!


Al

 

[Sjaak]

Presents...


Rental Car Upgrade


An Online Race based on Week 110 : Rental Car Upgrade

For today's race we go for a Formula One Style Formation Lap and Standing Start,please read carefully how to proceed.

Stewards Notes:

At the end of the formation lap, racers should stay single file and slow considerably. The pole sitter goes a little ahead of #2 and grabs his spot. 2nd keeps his gap until #1 is parked and then parks in his spot. #3 keeps a gap to #2 until #2 is parked and then proceeds to his spot. And so on until the final driver is parked.

Formula One Style Formation Lap and Standing Start

• After qualifying stay on track and a steward will read off qualifying times. When your time is announced (assuming it's correct) exit to the lobby.
• When all drivers are in the lobby the steward will re-open the pits and all drivers should enter the pits.
• The steward will call the drivers 1 by 1 onto the track in qualifying order and the drivers will line up in single file behind the pole sitter in order to stage the grid.
• Once all drivers are in their proper start positions the steward will start the race countdown timer.
• After the system places you on the grid for the start, drivers will run a "briskly paced" single file formation lap in quali order. If the system gets the order wrong use the formation lap to quickly shuffle.
• The pole sitter should run the formation lap at a "reasonable" speed so it's completed between 2:00 and 2:20 on the race clock.
• Weaving or other tire warming procedures are NOT allowed during the formation lap.
• Following the exit of the final chicane all drivers will proceed to their appropriate grid starting marker. Odd numbers on the right, even on the left.
• Once in your spot apply the breaks and do not move.
• The race clock in the top right corner of the screen will then be utilized for timing the race start.
• At exactly 3 minutes the race starts.
• Should any driver mistakenly start prior to that mark they must lift immediately so as to not gain position from the error prior to turn 1.
• If a driver misses the start you are allowed to pass on the straight, but only if you started at the proper time and can make the pass safely prior to turn in for turn 1.
• Be cautious and courteous in the first turn. Dive bombing will be penalized and will not be tolerated. It's a long race and error on the side of caution as there are no runoffs and only walls to bounce you back into traffic.

Video example:

​

Please check the OP for all other information:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=267718

 

[Dean]

Sounds good... - Plus, the video explains, what I wasn't sure of 👍.

 

[GTPskills]

Looking forward to this

 

[Dean]

I'm not sure what's going on, but apparently the "countdowns' " an hour off. 18 GMT is in 30 minutes, but the timer (for 18 GMT) says 1 hour and 30 minutes. So... what's correct - 30 minutes or 1 hour 30 ?

 

[Twissy]

I'm not sure what's going on, but apparently the "countdowns' " an hour off. 18 GMT is in 30 minutes, but the timer (for 18 GMT) says 1 hour and 30 minutes. So... what's correct - 30 minutes or 1 hour 30 ?

1hour 30 mins

 

[Sjaak]

I'm not sure what's going on, but apparently the "countdowns' " an hour off. 18 GMT is in 30 minutes, but the timer (for 18 GMT) says 1 hour and 30 minutes. So... what's correct - 30 minutes or 1 hour 30 ?

Last week when we went in summertime,GMT is for Central Europe GMT+2,

So the Academy starts one hour later then normal.

 

[Dean]

Ah, yes . I didn't forget the DST, I just forgot GMT isn't London's Time, during the DST-period (again, ). Anyway, thanks for clearing that up, guys .

See you all in 1 hour and 15 minutes .

 

[WRP001]

I'm not sure what's going on, but apparently the "countdowns' " an hour off. 18 GMT is in 30 minutes, but the timer (for 18 GMT) says 1 hour and 30 minutes. So... what's correct - 30 minutes or 1 hour 30 ?

The timer is/was right, your GMT time calculation was wrong. Check this for the current GMT time:

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/current-time/

As of this post 18:00 is still 1:12 minutes away just as displayed on the OP timer.

EDIT: You tree'd me.

 

[straffestef]

hi all .

is there maybe someone who can give me a car?

 

[Dean]

It's the one in the recommended garage, Stef .

 

[straffestef]

pfffff oke thanks than ist allright 👍

 

[Sjaak]

Lounge is open for practice.

 

[Sarkazmo]

I don't think I'm going to do the D-League anymore. Tired of being bludgeoned and tapped until I'm run into a wall or knocked off line and lose one or more places. I'm doing this for fun competition, not frustration and stress.

Later,
Sark

 

[Dean]

If you're thinking about the time, where I blocked you in, Sark, I do apologize, I wasn't sure who was in front, but I probably should have backed off, to let you by.

I'm sorry to see you leave, as you are a fast racer, - and good competition !
Again, sorry for the bumps, and the above.


I had fun, guys. Was good talking to you ("oldies" "elderly" "older" guys - sorry I just had to say it ). I'm looking forward to next week.

And Al, I'll try to get time, to join the (- my first -) Wednesday-event. I'm not sure if I've got time, but I'll find out soon 👍.

 

[Zapphoid]

I would have liked to have made it to the session before the race to get some tips as I seem to struggle with this type of car/tyres/track but I did find a few better lines and was over a second faster than I did practicing all week, see how next week goes. Sorry to see you are not continuing Sark.

 

[Windy_1238]

I don't think I'm going to do the D-League anymore. Tired of being bludgeoned and tapped until I'm run into a wall or knocked off line and lose one or more places. I'm doing this for fun competition, not frustration and stress.

Later,
Sark

++
My experience has been the same as yours. The admins have said they would do something about it, but no sanctions as of yet. Looks like we just have to deal with the over sealious and inexperienced drivers until they themselves throttle back and realise this supposed to be fun racing!! Not that I'm better than anyone of the newbees. Please try to hang in there, as I am and hope for changes to occur.

 

[Sjaak]

++
My experience has been the same as yours. The admins have said they would do something about it, but no sanctions as of yet. Looks like we just have to deal with the over sealious and inexperienced drivers until they themselves throttle back and realise this supposed to be fun racing!! Not that I'm better than anyone of the newbees. Please try to hang in there, as I am and hope for changes to occur.

True,if you were referring to the Spa race ,it was indeed a chain of incidents.
We would have taken pictures to show what is not acceptable.
I believe Racingworld did collect them but has PC problems.

And it is also true Sarkamo experience a nasty incident in the last race,first lap,had him fight to get back to the pack for lots of laps.
BTW,the driver did apologized right after the race for it.

It is not completely true that we ,admins, do nothing to improve the racing.
We give advices,warn for difficult situations ,like first turns,say several times to race fair and with respect,have pm conservations with racers.

Incidents will occur,even in races with experience drivers,so also in the develop races.
Main cause of the incidents I watched have to do with patience.
Racers want to overtake as soon as possible and in corners where it is difficult not to have contact.

Overall I see nice improvements in the last 2 Academy races and I am confident we are on the right course with this format.

We are still working on the format and put a lot of time in providing this races.
Tips to make the races improve are always welcome and we hope that in the end the positive feeling wins over the negative ones.👍

 

[Windy_1238]

OK, take my comments as a tip then, constructive in nature. I think what the Admin's are doing is a very good thing! We, and you, should learn from the results. Please don't be insulted by criticism. Peace!!