GTP_WRS-Online : Suggestions Box

[Ealirendur]

I thought the Motul Autech was the slow one?

The Epson NSX has a different floor, due to regulation changes, IIRC.

It's a shame the Z is such a fish out of water, specs-wise.

The Standard NSXs are pretty decent for the PP, I think.

 

[WRP001]

I thought the Motul Autech was the slow one?

The Epson NSX has a different floor, due to regulation changes, IIRC.

It's a shame the Z is such a fish out of water, specs-wise.

The Standard NSXs are pretty decent for the PP, I think.

I'd love to use some of the older standard super gt cars as they don't get a lot of love.

 

[Hydro]

I thought the Motul Autech was the slow one?

The Epson NSX has a different floor, due to regulation changes, IIRC.

It's a shame the Z is such a fish out of water, specs-wise.

The Standard NSXs are pretty decent for the PP, I think.

I think the Motul was given a ballast penalty in RL, and that seems to have made it to the game. The other (Xanavi, Calsonic, Yellow hat) GTr's are raised from 1100 to 1130 to match it in the PURE specs.

 

[Shigegaki]

The mentoring idea had a few shapes, and only gets tossed around as an Idea from time to time in conversation.
I remember one plan was to have a small (4 events over 4 weeks - in the same cars, etc.) race series where drivers were split into teams and the team results would matter almost as much as individual results. - Sort of like F1 teams. An overall winner, and a team Championship.
Teams would be split up according to divisions with each team having an even mix of divisions.
For example, if 15 drivers joined, and conveniently there was an even mix of all divisions among the drivers, then there would be 3 teams of 5 drivers with one driver from each division on each team. Even with an unbalanced number of entrants in any division (100% more likely ), evening the teams for this type of event would be pretty simple. As simple as taking the drivers and dividing them according to their current handicap (realistically teams of 3 or 4 would be more ideal).
In order to win the overall title, the teams would by default have to share advice on tunes, technique, race stratgey, etc.

As special events go though, we have enough events currently in development to last until December / January at this point - and if PD drops another track by New years' (a guy can dream ) then it's into February.
But I'd never rule out anything.... Motegi was a nice surprise, and it's a special event already.

After reading this post, I just bought another G27 from a member on here. I will start working on a simple summary and present it to Kevin and the other OLR Stewards possiblity by the weekend. Thanks for the idea Hydro

 

[Hydro]

The post inspired a wheel purchase? Wow I need to get into sales..
I eagerly await your ideas 👍

 

[GTPorsche]

I'd definitely be interested in a WRS series that is team based.

The only thing missing from GT5 is a lower open wheel series. One that relies more on the mechanical grip instead of aerodynamics. Would make for some good racing.

 

[Twissy]

Indeed I have to agree with a team based WRS event, it would certainly make for an intriguing concept.

 

[Shigegaki]

The post inspired a wheel purchase? Wow I need to get into sales..
I eagerly await your ideas 👍

Well I was looking to get a 2nd G27 for my girlfriend so she could practice stick without destroying my track car haha. But your idea is really inspiring, hopefully it comes out well right?

I'd definitely be interested in a WRS series that is team based.

The only thing missing from GT5 is a lower open wheel series. One that relies more on the mechanical grip instead of aerodynamics. Would make for some good racing.

Super 7 series? 💡

 

[NINE_HUNDRED]

The team idea does sound pretty fun. I'd be up for it for sure 👍

 

[Shigegaki]

So after picking Hydro's brain about a new event, I am sad to report that OLRS team is booked until 2013. But not to give up, I will throw the idea in the interest check forums and hopefully with enough interested we can get this going 👍

 

[GTPorsche]

I'd suggest a mixed class endurance for classic race cars similar to what the World Sportscar Championship was about back in the 60s/70s.

Any chances of say, the 330 P4/XJ-13/Mk.IV in one class and the Corvette Z06 Race Car '63 in the other class? I don't think there are any other cars that could match up with the Z06 for that class though. I don't think the Alfa TZ2 would have enough grunt to compete with the Z06.

The lack of classic race cars disappoints me. Hopefully that changes for GT6.

 

[Hydro]

I'd suggest a mixed class endurance for classic race cars similar to what the World Sportscar Championship was about back in the 60s/70s.

Any chances of say, the 330 P4/XJ-13/Mk.IV in one class and the Corvette Z06 Race Car '63 in the other class? I don't think there are any other cars that could match up with the Z06 for that class though. I don't think the Alfa TZ2 would have enough grunt to compete with the Z06.

The lack of classic race cars disappoints me. Hopefully that changes for GT6.

Ahem... We've only announced the crazy expensive cars for now... 20 mil is 20 mil after all it takes time.
You'll have to wait like everyone else for the rest of the details

 

[GTPorsche]

Then, disregard my suggestion then.

 

[snowgt]

Do online races actually count towards handicap? (I haven't found any evidence they do...)

Since I'm lacking the time to put enough effort into the time-trials, online is the only races I see myself participating in the near future. So, that would mean I will be parked on my current handicap indefinitely. (not that it matters much, just out of principle)

It's probably pretty difficult to put together a formula for this, but I guess it could be done. (actually it isn't, but it's supposed to be fair, too)

I imagine something based on other participant's handicaps.

E.g.: Simple version:
If you finish in a better position than your current handicap would indicate, for every position you get handicap -0.01. Same for lower position with +0.01. Maximum would be +0.15 therefore with a full field. Of course you can take any number to get the desired effect. It would probably also be advisable to award something for the winner in case that is also the one with the lowest handicap - otherwise that guy wouldn't have anything to win.

 

[mcfizzle]

Online races do not affect handicap in any way and it's extremely rare that they are used. The Nürburgring race this week is the only one that I'm aware of but I'm sure others could clarify that point. The whole point of the handicap is to ensure you are time trialing with others who have a similar skill set to you, where in the races we are all thrown together and compete, and often the finishing results are a mosh posh of divisions. In fact, I feel like some race online consistently above their TT division, and others, myself included, race a little below their division. I don't mean that in a negative way at all, racing is just a whole different animal from running 500 laps and only submitting the magic lap. If only people saw some of my early lap times on the weeks I've done well. Also, there are so many factors involved in online race results that I think it would be hard to incorporate the handicap into it. Others may cause an accident dropping you in the finishing order, pit strategy, length of race, disconnects when running well, multiple lobbies, loss of sound affecting performance, pass through penalties on N24, etc. It could be interesting if PD came up with a good safety rating for GT6 though.

Edit: I also wouldn't want handicap to affect race entries or performance. Not saying someone would do it but let's say I look at the race entries and it's stacked with quality drivers and decide I won't enter because chances are my finishing position will negatively affect my handicap. Or maybe I take risks on the track I wouldn't normally take causing others to become my victims in order to improve my handicap. The series itself would suffer as a result. I feel like the WRS admins have a really good series going with an awesome collection of drivers. The quality of driving and respect for each other on track from top to bottom is unparalleled IMO. I don't think a handicap would change that but you never know.

 

[WRP001]

Do online races actually count towards handicap? (I haven't found any evidence they do...)

Since I'm lacking the time to put enough effort into the time-trials, online is the only races I see myself participating in the near future. So, that would mean I will be parked on my current handicap indefinitely. (not that it matters much, just out of principle)

It's probably pretty difficult to put together a formula for this, but I guess it could be done. (actually it isn't, but it's supposed to be fair, too)

I imagine something based on other participant's handicaps.

E.g.: Simple version:
If you finish in a better position than your current handicap would indicate, for every position you get handicap -0.01. Same for lower position with +0.01. Maximum would be +0.15 therefore with a full field. Of course you can take any number to get the desired effect. It would probably also be advisable to award something for the winner in case that is also the one with the lowest handicap - otherwise that guy wouldn't have anything to win.

I've put some thought into this in the past since I also focus on online racing more than time trials and it's really not feasible [for us]. Here are my thoughts on the matter (my individual thoughts and I haven't discussed with the other admins).

The time trials are a *very* controlled environment where you cannot be impacted by anyone else (other than motivation, advice, etc.) whereas the online races are subject to a lot of events that are out of your control. A driver could have an accident and involve other drivers in the incident which will impact the outcome for both drivers involved and not involved.

The time trials are reviewed whenever you outperform your handicap or make a podium. Every corner is checked to be clean. We aren't about to go there for the online races because we aren't talking about one lap, but 10-20-30 laps to check for every driver to be consistent with the offline methods.

Further, and maybe most important, we want to keep the focus of online events on "fun, clean and courteous" above all else... yes, even above performance. The competitive spirit is obviously still here, there is no way to get rid of that and it's a good thing, but by not running points or including handicap the fun factor stays number 1. If handicap were involved some drivers may not compete if the combo is difficult or the field is too hard. If points or handicap are a big factor than incident review becomes a bigger issue and any minor thing that could otherwise be worked out by two drivers by themselves becomes a handicap issue that has to be dealt with by the stewards. No thanks, I've got a day job.

Anyway, it's a good suggestion in that in theory it's a cool idea. But in practice it's too difficult and problematic and we don't have the time or desire to make this happen.

Our historical leaderboard is something we added some time ago to "keep score" without having too much weight placed on it. It's not exactly completely balanced either in that it awards frequent participation (I'm the prime example), but we would also like to reward that! There are some thoughts on expanding that leaderboard to include some other stats or running totals. So as a driver consistent performance will show you move up those boards, but the results from one event do not really carry over and impact others.

Thanks for the input and sorry for the long response. We do take all suggestions seriously.

PS> And as Scott said we rarely ever use handicap in the races. The Grip Meister event was a special situation where a fair qualification was just not feasible and we've only done that a handfull of times over the past year. Had it not been on the week of our special event we could have run "observed quali" prior to the event too. So if there is a very large objection to using handicap and people are willing to run pre-quali we would support that for future events where live pre-race quali is not feasible.

 

[snowgt]

I've put some thought into this ...

Online races do not affect handicap in any way ...

Thanks for taking the time to lay out why you're not doing it - I do see the point(s) you were making. As I don't race to better my handicap, this is really not a priority for me either. I was just wondering as to why and that has been thankfully answered at great length.

 

[GTPorsche]

Trying another suggestion.

Karts. I don't think a 2.4 hour multi-class endurance would work though. You'd have to have the 125 kart and the jr kart to really get a good parity in the classes.

"That won't work Porsche" :dopey"

 

[mcfizzle]

I've think kart races would be fun also. Certainly not for everyone but like the oval a nice light change of pace that can bring fun for most. Maybe 4 sprint races like the Tsukuba 500, my first ever WRS race.

 

[WRP001]

I'd be curious to see what kind of interest from our registry there is in a kart race. Let's here some feedback from the driver pool. I think an endurance race with Karts would get a pretty much immediate rejection, but a normal race or sprints at some point when we have to choose a substitute for the WRS could fly if interest was high enough. Or just as a fun unofficial Saturday event. We actually ran some kart races once or twice in the early 3D3 days as fun little races right after our normal events.

Edit: Kind of funny that someone appears to be attempting this: Kart space endurance championship.

 

[pilmat]

Karts sound fun for a couple of sprint races, but not an enduro.

As for Kart Space, I think it would be more fun in fully tricked out Fiat 500s. The old ones! The '68 Premium will put out 82+HP fully pimped and on Sport Softs goes well. Even the Aero is cool! The rear wing is available in a body colored basket handle

 

[hasslemoff]

I've think kart races would be fun also. Certainly not for everyone but like the oval a nice light change of pace that can bring fun for most. Maybe 4 sprint races like the Tsukuba 500, my first ever WRS race.

Top gear track an old WRS event , will make it interesting and a change of pace.

 

[GTPorsche]

Kart Space would be terrible for an endurance race. Karts are fine for hour length races. Plus, with online you could run them in the weather tracks. Could be a good substitute for events where the car/track wouldn't workout online very well.

Just avoid Trial Mountain with karts. It's too bumpy from my experience with it.

Edit: There was that one week with karts on the TGTT. That would make for an interesting race, except for the lack of a pit lane. Sprint races would work best for that.

 

[snowgt]

Got a question:

For my own entertainment, I'm currently doing a "Balance-of-Performance" for road/production cars with GT3-like specs. (that's "GT3" as in the FIA regulations, not the previous iteration of the game) Specs are something like 470-570 hp, 1300 kg as a rule of thumb.

It occurred to me that this might maybe be of interest as an on and off racing series (regular participation might be too much of a problem). So, I guess my questions are these:

1) Would there be interest in organizing events like these, where about 30 different cars could be eligible, tested out to be equal (within 1 second) anywhere on different tracks?

2) I haven't looked at my BoP-tuning from the angle of verifiability by stewards before, so out of personal curiosity I would be interested in your expertise as to what can be checked and what not.

From what I know you can check Engine Stage- and Turbo-Tuning (by checking redline). Is Sports ECU also verifiable? Exhaust could be checked from the sound-note, but is a nuisance. I guess all the other upgrades would have to be free anyway. Afterwards you can impose hp, weight or PP restrictions.

Anyway, I would love to see some racing in such a wide variety of cars on one level. You could even think of some weight-"penalty" for past race-successes to keep the field equal, like they also do in (some) real GT3-series. Ok, that might be taking it a bit far, but hey, one can dream.

If there's interest in my BoP (even if it's not for WRS), just tell me and I'll send you my findings so far. (have done about 20 cars so far, but without verifiable aspect; will take me another 2-3 weeks to do the rest)

 

[Hydro]

Got a question:

For my own entertainment, I'm currently doing a "Balance-of-Performance" for road/production cars with GT3-like specs. (that's "GT3" as in the FIA regulations, not the previous iteration of the game) Specs are something like 470-570 hp, 1300 kg as a rule of thumb.

It occurred to me that this might maybe be of interest as an on and off racing series (regular participation might be too much of a problem). So, I guess my questions are these:

1) Would there be interest in organizing events like these, where about 30 different cars could be eligible, tested out to be equal (within 1 second) anywhere on different tracks?

2) I haven't looked at my BoP-tuning from the angle of verifiability by stewards before, so out of personal curiosity I would be interested in your expertise as to what can be checked and what not.

From what I know you can check Engine Stage- and Turbo-Tuning (by checking redline). Is Sports ECU also verifiable? Exhaust could be checked from the sound-note, but is a nuisance. I guess all the other upgrades would have to be free anyway. Afterwards you can impose hp, weight or PP restrictions.

Anyway, I would love to see some racing in such a wide variety of cars on one level. You could even think of some weight-"penalty" for past race-successes to keep the field equal, like they also do in (some) real GT3-series. Ok, that might be taking it a bit far, but hey, one can dream.

If there's interest in my BoP (even if it's not for WRS), just tell me and I'll send you my findings so far. (have done about 20 cars so far, but without verifiable aspect; will take me another 2-3 weeks to do the rest)

I'll answer what I can.
1: Yes there will be interest, but no one can say for certain how much. Have a look in the racing forums and you will find that most series no matter how well organized or planned out usually gets ~ 14 drivers per race.
Equaling up 30 cars will be a monumental task as it will require more than 1 driver to test them in order to see if they do in fact match - and I'm assuming you are allowing tuning (trans, suspension, etc).
Equalling up 3 cars is driving us nuts ATM, and we have had 6+ drivers working on it (across 4 divisions - well 3 now 👍 Al)
If you are asking whether we (GTP OLR Admins) are interested in orgainising it, I can't say for sure, but keep in mind our special event calendar is now set until January and we have more plans on hold as well.
Are you thinking of running a series yourself? If yes, then you can post a thread in the Interest Checks section to see what other drivers think. It's by far the best place to start 👍

2. Engine Stages, turbos, and ECU can be verified in the HUD but in some cases it's really tough to tell and would have to be checked on a car-to-car basis to know what differences you are looking for. Basically you need to have one car with all the upgrades installed, and 1 without then compare the HUDs to be certain. You would probably need to do that in stages as well (install Engine upgrades - check the Hud, Install ECU, Check the hud...etc).

As I previously mentioned, this would be a gigantic undertaking to ensure the cars are in fact equal.

 

[WRP001]

Agree with Marc on all points.

Note that if you are running a true point series and have a decent success ballast system that might help you out tremendously with the cars (and drivers). In other words, some cars may outpace others at the start, but the success ballast will naturally bring them back, but it will take a few races and it won't be perfect. You should include a few preseason races to get them close in actual driver's hands. If you let drivers switch cars then ballast won't help you with equalization.

For a single special event to undertake equalization of even 3 cars is proving difficult and frankly barely worth the effort for a single race. A season is much more approachable as you can use success ballast and leverage the work for a long period of time and also different tracks could favor different types of cars helping to level the field. Trying to get 2 truly different cars exactly equal in one track is hard enough, forget 30. The best you can hope for is having cars that suit different drivers styles or you'll end up where we did with Motegi. Everyone flocks to the better handling car because in a race of any length that will dominate over one that might be 2-3 tenths faster.

 

[robiker]

How about tuner cars?
I've found five that match up pretty closely.

AEM S2000
Amuse S2000 GT1
Blitz ER34 D1 '04
HKS Genki Hyper Silvia
Mazda BP Falken RX-7

These cars all get up to 20/50 aero and could run at 502 hp, 1180 kg.
The Blitz and HKS need more tuning than the others to make them handle well and get even tire wear. I did lap times within .7 seconds with all the cars at Nurb GP/F.

 

[GTPorsche]

The AEM S2000 was run a few weeks back.

 

[Ealirendur]

The AEM S2000 was run a few weeks back.

And is hilariously tricky (or fun, depending on perspective) compared to some of the others, IIRC; I'm surprised it can run close at evenish specs. Still, there are enough tuner cars and RMs/TCs (with similar aero) that a few other balanced ones could be worked out, if any are hard. I'm very fond of the RE Amemiya RX-7, for one, and some of those S2000s are very nice drives.

If we ever run the Blitz standard model, it really, really needs to be at night. Because photos.

 

[Hydro]

How about tuner cars?
I've found five that match up pretty closely.

AEM S2000
Amuse S2000 GT1
Blitz ER34 D1 '04
HKS Genki Hyper Silvia
Mazda BP Falken RX-7

These cars all get up to 20/50 aero and could run at 502 hp, 1180 kg.
The Blitz and HKS need more tuning than the others to make them handle well and get even tire wear. I did lap times within .7 seconds with all the cars at Nurb GP/F.

Are you asking if we would consider running all the cars in one event?
If so....https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7467831#post7467831