GTS vs GT6 - Cars comparison

[Spongeinside]

The dash of the chevy nova doesn't really look worthy though... some gauges look awful...

 

[dissectional1]

Why bother comparing models and speculate wether PD was lazy or just didn't bother to "future proof" their models? Keep in mind that Laser scanning does wonders for a head start, but you can't simply take a laser scan generated point cloud and magically create a game asset from it by flicking a switch or pressing a magic button... Creating LOD's is quite tedious. It's a bit more complex than simply decimating your huge resolution mesh. On the future proofing point though, Why would they bother making base models mostly out of quads or other ngons when the target rendering engine will turn everything into triangles and rely on a rather strict polygon budget due to hardware limitations? Most people who are so eager to jump into the "let's bash the 3d guys" bandwagon have little clue as to how much of a pain in the ass modeling a car is (even if you have a laser scanned base because making LOD's is most certainly not a fun task. Hell in some cases having a laser scanned base can be worse than actually modeling the car from scratch as the latter assures a less stressful way of polygon budget compliance) just my two cents though

 

[MisterOne77]

And it also shows whoever did that work is either lazy or incompetent because it doesn't take any effort to make it round, The wheel arches above are horrible, if you play chrome paint you can CLEARLY see the curves. I understand designing cars is HARD, but these are CURVES that are NOT made by hand, they are made by adjusting a slider in EVERY modeling program. I feel like a bit of these jagged edges are either oversights or signs of bad mesh maps. A mesh map can be scaled by creating a sort of transition ring around a circle this allows that ring to be disturbed but not the surrounding area. This is exactly how PD managed to make tesselating cars, only certain parts of the mesh would tesselate without making the car look like a deforming blob. This is a very crude example. I learned this the hard way in inventor after trying to make circles bigger causing the rest of my model stretch and deform. meaning the parts no longer snapped into place. Cad Inventor and Maya do this automatically when giving anything a curved edge/ bezel but it gives you errors if it disturbs the mesh ( which you can manually override) . My crudely drawn picture below demonstrates this since PD is working with complex shapes it would take serious effort to make a curved edge. BUT this shouldn't be an issue in the first place had they future proofed cars. The square represents a flat plane and the hexagon represents the original cut out ( in picture one the triangles can increase decrease WITHOUT disturbing the flat surface or even a curved surface ) . I was too lazy to make lines but assume the circles are made of lines.
View attachment 705562

I'd bet you'd throw a fit and have an aneurysm if you saw the models in Forza or literally any other racing game out now(not to say that they're bad). What you're complaining about is so insignificant and minute. This is nitpicking at its finest. The fact that you're throwing away any credibility PD has in modeling because of some polygonal edges baffles me. Those are some unrealistically high standards.

 

[KingFrog]

I'd bet you'd throw a fit and have an aneurysm if you saw the models in Forza or literally any other racing game out now(not to say that they're bad). What you're complaining about is so insignificant and minute. This is nitpicking at its finest. The fact that you're throwing away any credibility PD has in modeling because of some polygonal edges baffles me. Those are some unrealistically high standards.

It's not an unrealistically high standard when 98% of all the other cars in the game meet the " standard". It also proves polyphony did not make them from " scratch". All the other cars in this game are near perfect. why did the Suzuki swift get perfect edges but not the Ferrari Enzo? Especially a TAIL PIPE which is a BASIC CYLINDER!!!!! They could have made a new one in five minutes!
Edit : It also seems that most of you guys believe models can't be updated/ polished.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

Wow.. The last time I seen this much drama over a tailpipe was when my uncle Dave got sectioned over his Mechanophilia.

Anyhow, you should try out Project Cars 2, She has a whole 4 more sides to her cylinders! Four more!!!!

Sexy!

(Just don't go sticking anything in there as she is still only 15)

 

[ScottPuss20]

you must be blind if you don't see the polygons are not round, it seems it had one extra vertex added ( x2) as GT sport has an extra line between the original GT6 version. Also to the ignorant fools calling me an idiot, please open Maya or Cad, making round edges is literally done by adjusting a slider. https://knowledge.autodesk.com/supp...66B628EE-3E6C-482F-87F1-56C0AB881F28-htm.html I never said ALL of PD were subpar, I said those models in specific were, especially when we have models that have ZERO visible polygons. We're talking round edges, not complex fender flares, headlamps. Modeling cars is difficult as they use pretty complex shapes, bur rims? ANYONE can make a rim EDGE, ANd Emula basically proved PD did touch it , but only doubled the vertices, everything else is identical. EDIT I messed up on Point 7-8 but couldn't be bothered fixing it, the vertex is above the 7th circle and 8 was supposed to be at the very corner, thee new windows 3d paint scrolls up when you do to.

And it also shows whoever did that work is either lazy or incompetent because it doesn't take any effort to make it round, The wheel arches above are horrible, if you play chrome paint you can CLEARLY see the curves. I understand designing cars is HARD, but these are CURVES that are NOT made by hand, they are made by adjusting a slider in EVERY modeling program. I feel like a bit of these jagged edges are either oversights or signs of bad mesh maps. A mesh map can be scaled by creating a sort of transition ring around a circle this allows that ring to be disturbed but not the surrounding area. This is exactly how PD managed to make tesselating cars, only certain parts of the mesh would tesselate without making the car look like a deforming blob. This is a very crude example. I learned this the hard way in inventor after trying to make circles bigger causing the rest of my model stretch and deform. meaning the parts no longer snapped into place. Cad Inventor and Maya do this automatically when giving anything a curved edge/ bezel but it gives you errors if it disturbs the mesh ( which you can manually override) . My crudely drawn picture below demonstrates this since PD is working with complex shapes it would take serious effort to make a curved edge. BUT this shouldn't be an issue in the first place had they future proofed cars. The square represents a flat plane and the hexagon represents the original cut out ( in picture one the triangles can increase decrease WITHOUT disturbing the flat surface or even a curved surface ) . I was too lazy to make lines but assume the circles are made of lines.
View attachment 705562

Its called a shader, the gt6 model has a flat shader which makes all flat edges instantly noticeable as the shadows don't " blend" as the polygons are shaded naturally. In GT sport its obvious the rims have a shader applied to them ( giving it that amazing metallic look) it also softens the edges as the shadows blend into the rim. Hence why you have to zoom in to see the edges. I have pretty extensive knowledge on 3d modeling and can immediately spot these issues as I know the tricks company's use. The vertices are easily noticeable, but enjoy your subpar models that could have been fixed in 15 mins by simply rounding the edges, i have a feeling the sub-mesh for the fender/ quarter panel are tied to the wheel arch vertices ( a sign of sloppy modeling) and would be disturbed if the modeler decided to round them out , also PD has simply updated the models by rounding the edges / replacing parts. Hence why the Hyundai logo / stick shift got rounded out but not the surrounding area.s PD just updated the logo/ knob as they are separate pieces. Im not saying this is bad as it would be incredibly stupid to dump good models and start from square one.But rounding out an edge isn't that much work if your mesh was made correctly. The one that TRULY baffles me is the ENZO's tailpipe, that's literally 2 minutes of work, you just select the circle and adjust the slider to the right to give it more vertices.

Why are you so triggered mate? What you're saying is just a rant without any substance, I don't understand. There's nothing wrong with the modelling of round edges in GT Sport!

 

[emula]

McLaren MP4-12C

 

[Johnnypenso]

Wow.. The last time I seen this much drama over a tailpipe was when my uncle Dave got sectioned over his Mechanophilia.

Anyhow, you should try out Project Cars 2, She has a whole 4 more sides to her cylinders! Four more!!!!

View attachment 705757

Sexy!

(Just don't go sticking anything in there as she is still only 15)

When in doubt, bring up other games!!

Why are you so triggered mate? What you're saying is just a rant without any substance, I don't understand. There's nothing wrong with the modelling of round edges in GT Sport!

Dude makes a very specific criticism about a few modeling details by comparing it to 98% of cars he readily admits are modeled to an extremely high standard. Why are you so triggered mate?!!!

 

[TrevorPhilips]

When in doubt, bring up other games!!

In doubt?... In doubt of what exactly? The fact that PC2 has an Enzo with a smoother tailpipe? That's not a doubt, that's a stonewall fact. If the guy wants to get up close to his exhausts I'm letting him know there's a smoother one out there. Are you trying to imply I'm somehow defending PD's decision NOT to upgrade the tailpipe? Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not. Part of me thinks yeah, they should have put the effort in and part of me thinks it's a ****** tailpipe, I don't care.

If you do think I'm somehow defending PD, I think you've spent too much time in that trench you've dug yourself here and have become paranoid. Not everybody who likes GT:S feels they need to defend every decision PD make or that they can do no wrong. Not everybody here picks a game and feels the need to attack other games for a false sense of justification in their choice of franchise. Many of us here appreciate the fact that we have many games all different enough to compliment each of the other games and give us options to play when the mood suits.

So if you do indeed think I've used PCars smoother tailpipe as any sort of justification for GT's lower poly version, then you need to get some fresh air.

 

[Johnnypenso]

In doubt?... In doubt of what exactly? The fact that PC2 has an Enzo with a smoother tailpipe? That's not a doubt, that's a stonewall fact. If the guy wants to get up close to his exhausts I'm letting him know there's a smoother one out there. Are you trying to imply I'm somehow defending PD's decision NOT to upgrade the tailpipe? Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not. Part of me thinks yeah, they should have put the effort in and part of me thinks it's a ****** tailpipe, I don't care.

If you do think I'm somehow defending PD, I think you've spent too much time in that trench you've dug yourself here and have become paranoid. Not everybody who likes GT:S feels they need to defend every decision PD make or that they can do no wrong. Not everybody here picks a game and feels the need to attack other games for a false sense of justification in their choice of franchise. Many of us here appreciate the fact that we have many games all different enough to compliment each of the other games and give us options to play when the mood suits.

So if you do indeed think I've used PCars smoother tailpipe as any sort of justification for GT's lower poly version, then you need to get some fresh air.

Not everyone feels the need to defend decisions PD makes except you know, you're here comparing GT to PCars in the GT6 vs. GTS thread. Nice Strawman attempt though.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

Not everyone feels the need to defend decisions PD makes except you know, you're here comparing GT to PCars in the GT6 vs. GTS thread. Nice Strawman attempt though.

Yeah.... Because posting the higher poly version of PCars Enzo tailpipe in comparison to GT's lower poly version is somehow defending PD?

Take a day off will ya!

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yeah.... Because posting the higher poly version of PCars Enzo tailpipe in comparison to GT's lower poly version is somehow defending PD?

Take a day off will ya!

Still here talking about PCars..in the GTS vs. GT6 thread. You should throw in some AC and maybe some Forza to go completely off topic

 

[TrevorPhilips]

Still here talking about PCars..in the GTS vs. GT6 thread.

Erm.. No, I recommended a smoother pipe, he wanted a smoother pipe, I showed him one. I see no problem with that. Then emula posted another excellent comparison and resumed normal service literally 2 posts later.... Then you came along and tried to insinuate I did it to justify PD's model in some way. What? Am I just going to let you say that when it's clearly not the case? No.

So no, I'm not still talking about PCars, I'm pointing out that your paranoia got the better of you. Just because someone posts a pic of another game in a thread does not necessarily mean they're trying to justify one game or trying to discredit another. There is also a difference between recommending another game and comparing them, learn it.

You should throw in some AC and maybe some Forza to go completely off topic

There is only one man guilty of dragging this thread off topic and it's not me as I've just pointed out. The thread was on point until you took it off literally the next post after emula and I'm not taking any blame for that, so this ends now.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Erm.. No, I recommended a smoother pipe, he wanted a smoother pipe, I showed him one. I see no problem with that. Then emula posted another excellent comparison and resumed normal service literally 2 posts later.... Then you came along and tried to insinuate I did it to justify PD's model in some way. What? Am I just going to let you say that when it's clearly not the case? No.

So no, I'm not still talking about PCars, I'm pointing out that your paranoia got the better of you. Just because someone posts a pic of another game in a thread does not necessarily mean they're trying to justify one game or trying to discredit another. There is also a difference between recommending another game and comparing them, learn it.

Right

There is only one man guilty of dragging this thread off topic and it's not me as I've just pointed out. The thread was on point until you took it off literally the next post after emula and I'm not taking any blame for that, so this ends now.

Ok, I'll support your move to get back on topic. Well done:tup:👍

 

[emula]

 

[MisterOne77]

It's not an unrealistically high standard when 98% of all the other cars in the game meet the " standard". It also proves polyphony did not make them from " scratch". All the other cars in this game are near perfect. why did the Suzuki swift get perfect edges but not the Ferrari Enzo? Especially a TAIL PIPE which is a BASIC CYLINDER!!!!! They could have made a new one in five minutes!
Edit : It also seems that most of you guys believe models can't be updated/ polished.

Mate, honestly, why are you so upset? This isn't that big of a deal, if at all.

 

[Lord Kacperov]

Yeah.... Because posting the higher poly version of PCars Enzo tailpipe in comparison to GT's lower poly version is somehow defending PD?

Take a day off will ya!

Still here talking about PCars..in the GTS vs. GT6 thread. You should throw in some AC and maybe some Forza to go completely off topic

Can you both stop using this emoticon all the Kazdamn time?! Also, bring your argument somewhere else , okay?

 

[Sojiira]

Can you both stop using this emoticon all the Kazdamn time?! Also, bring your argument somewhere else , okay?

Well done:tup:👍

 

[ImaRobot]

If you do think I'm somehow defending PD, I think you've spent too much time in that trench you've dug yourself here and have become paranoid. Not everybody who likes GT:S feels they need to defend every decision PD make or that they can do no wrong. Not everybody here picks a game and feels the need to attack other games for a false sense of justification in their choice of franchise. Many of us here appreciate the fact that we have many games all different enough to compliment each of the other games and give us options to play when the mood suits.

That's an overstatement if I've ever seen one. I mean sure, that can be you sometimes, but I wouldn't go using the word "us."

 

[TrevorPhilips]

That's an overstatement if I've ever seen one. I mean sure, that can be you sometimes, but I wouldn't go using the word "us."

Well, considering I have said exactly the same thing in the past on more than one occasion and many people agreed with me, I'm confident in using the word "us".

 

[ImaRobot]

Well, considering I have said exactly the same thing in the past on more than one occasion and many people agreed with me, I'm confident in using the word "us".

You do you. I just found it funny.

 

[KingFrog]

actu

Emula that's two flat textures ( with shaders) layered to give the illusion of depth. It's not "3D modeled " . It's obvious they updated the models while giving some more love than others ( the Rx-7 / R-34 are flawless ) . But it proves PD is lying about " starting from scratch" when the EXACT SAME polys found in 5/6 show up in sport. The imported models aren't up to snuff with the GT sport new models. but again, I don't care, the fact is PD LIED about starting from scratch to make super duper premium models and thus has no excuse for having 150+ cars at launch when they are literally doing touch-ups on old premiums ( or just straight porting them like the enzo). there are full tesselation models in GT6 with no visible polygons absent in GT6.

 

[emula]

actu

Emula that's two flat textures ( with shaders) layered to give the illusion of depth. It's not "3D modeled " . It's obvious they updated the models while giving some more love than others ( the Rx-7 / R-34 are flawless ) . But it proves PD is lying about " starting from scratch" when the EXACT SAME polys found in 5/6 show up in sport. The imported models aren't up to snuff with the GT sport new models. but again, I don't care, the fact is PD LIED about starting from scratch to make super duper premium models and thus has no excuse for having 150+ cars at launch when they are literally doing touch-ups on old premiums ( or just straight porting them like the enzo). there are full tesselation models in GT6 with no visible polygons absent in GT6.

no, is full 3D

in GT6 is only a flat (and low resolution) 2D texture

 

[ScottPuss20]

Edit: Delete this

 

[sparkytooth]

Wow didn't know the 12C looked so good as of GT5.

 

[dissectional1]

I'd say pretty decent/quite good looks have been a constant in GT for some time now (hardware limitations and all) but I'd be more bothered with the disregard for other (more important IMO) details like cars with active aero parts (and others) that despite how nicely modeled PD gets the cars, remain absent from GT. On that note I think a lot of racing games should take a page out of Driveclub's playbook. Not even the Forza titles have featured such an accurate rendition of the Lamborghini Reventón, for example. Even the spoler works in Driveclub, whereas in Forzas only the engine vents work and in GT6 (only game to feature that car thus far ) there are no moveable parts in the bodywork whatsoever

 

[Lubeify100]

I'd say pretty decent/quite good looks have been a constant in GT for some time now (hardware limitations and all) but I'd be more bothered with the disregard for other (more important IMO) details like cars with active aero parts (and others) that despite how nicely modeled PD gets the cars, remain absent from GT. On that note I think a lot of racing games should take a page out of Driveclub's playbook. Not even the Forza titles have featured such an accurate rendition of the Lamborghini Reventón, for example. Even the spoler works in Driveclub, whereas in Forzas only the engine vents work and in GT6 (only game to feature that car thus far ) there are no moveable parts in the bodywork whatsoever

This. some cars that were in GT6 and Driveclub I'd be surprised that they would have those moving parts haha

 

[GhostChild]

I'd say pretty decent/quite good looks have been a constant in GT for some time now (hardware limitations and all) but I'd be more bothered with the disregard for other (more important IMO) details like cars with active aero parts (and others) that despite how nicely modeled PD gets the cars, remain absent from GT. On that note I think a lot of racing games should take a page out of Driveclub's playbook. Not even the Forza titles have featured such an accurate rendition of the Lamborghini Reventón, for example. Even the spoler works in Driveclub, whereas in Forzas only the engine vents work and in GT6 (only game to feature that car thus far ) there are no moveable parts in the bodywork whatsoever

I think that's because Gran turismo simulates only the aerodynamics moving parts and has the animation for them. In the Murciélago, Reventón and Aventador the lateral wings serve as an engine cooling feauture. Since GT does not simulate engine overheating or failure, hence the absent of the animation of those moving parts for cooling the engine.

 

[KingFrog]

Are you talking about the mesh or the engine components? Im referring to the mesh which is basically a shader stacked parallel to give teh illusion of depth ( which does look better than the GT6 one that looks like cardboard).

 

[KingFrog]

Are you talking about the mesh or the engine components? Im referring to the mesh which is basically a shader stacked parallel to give teh illusion of depth ( which does look better than the GT6 one that looks like cardboard).