GTS vs GT6 - Cars comparison

[KingFrog]

PD updated the badge on the Genesis but left the surrounding area untouched, plus the wheel arches and rims untouched. PD logic. Edit, actually all the jaggies are still there, they just don't stick out with the new shaders.

 

[TheNuvolari]

It still looks pretty detailed, and that's what matters for me! 👍

 

[KingFrog]

It still looks pretty detailed, and that's what matters for me! 👍

it;s quite obvious when you put chrome on it and see the squared edges

 

[Skiddy]

PD updated the badge on the Genesis but left the surrounding area untouched, plus the wheel arches and rims untouched. PD logic. Edit, actually all the jaggies are still there, they just don't stick out with the new shaders.

It doesn't look like that to me. Especially the rims.

 

[RaceFuchs]

What i really would like to see is a Forza 7 vs. GTS comparsion. Obviously, GTS offers way more detail in car models but it would still be interesting to see. Great work by the way in this thread, altough its kunda funny to see some pixel counters in here who still prefer to criticies Polyphony instead of giving them the kudos they deserve.

 

[Lord Kacperov]

What i really would like to see is a Forza 7 vs. GTS comparsion. Obviously, GTS offers way more detail in car models but it would still be interesting to see. Great work by the way in this thread, altough its kunda funny to see some pixel counters in here who still prefer to criticies Polyphony instead of giving them the kudos they deserve.

The texture quality of all the cars is incredible, but it’s the polygon count that varies. Hopefully they’ll look near perfect on PS5.

 

[KingFrog]

It doesn't look like that to me. Especially the rims.

Zoom in, you can clearly see the straight lines emulas pictures , although good kinda make GT6 look worst and GT sport look better by picking a location with lots of reflections breaking up lines.

 

[emula]

Nissan GT-R LM NISMO

 

[usmaan]

anyone know if polyphony have a structured time frame for the dlc releases? will we get cars every month or will it be random?

 

[Skiddy]

Zoom in, you can clearly see the straight lines emulas pictures , although good kinda make GT6 look worst and GT sport look better by picking a location with lots of reflections breaking up lines.

If it was that noticeable then I wouldn't have to zoom in. The straight lines on the gt6 rims are clearly visible without zooming. Sorry, not convinced.

 

[KingFrog]

If it was that noticeable then I wouldn't have to zoom in. The straight lines on the gt6 rims are clearly visible without zooming. Sorry, not convinced.

Its called a shader, the gt6 model has a flat shader which makes all flat edges instantly noticeable as the shadows don't " blend" as the polygons are shaded naturally. In GT sport its obvious the rims have a shader applied to them ( giving it that amazing metallic look) it also softens the edges as the shadows blend into the rim. Hence why you have to zoom in to see the edges. I have pretty extensive knowledge on 3d modeling and can immediately spot these issues as I know the tricks company's use. The vertices are easily noticeable, but enjoy your subpar models that could have been fixed in 15 mins by simply rounding the edges, i have a feeling the sub-mesh for the fender/ quarter panel are tied to the wheel arch vertices ( a sign of sloppy modeling) and would be disturbed if the modeler decided to round them out , also PD has simply updated the models by rounding the edges / replacing parts. Hence why the Hyundai logo / stick shift got rounded out but not the surrounding area.s PD just updated the logo/ knob as they are separate pieces. Im not saying this is bad as it would be incredibly stupid to dump good models and start from square one.But rounding out an edge isn't that much work if your mesh was made correctly. The one that TRULY baffles me is the ENZO's tailpipe, that's literally 2 minutes of work, you just select the circle and adjust the slider to the right to give it more vertices.

 

[Skiddy]

Its called a shader, the gt6 model has a flat shader which makes all flat edges instantly noticeable as the shadows don't " blend" as the polygons are shaded naturally. In GT sport its obvious the rims have a shader applied to them ( giving it that amazing metallic look) it also softens the edges as the shadows blend into the rim. Hence why you have to zoom in to see the edges. I have pretty extensive knowledge on 3d modeling and can immediately spot these issues as I know the tricks company's use. The vertices are easily noticeable, but enjoy your subpar models that could have been fixed in 15 mins by simply rounding the edges, i have a feeling the sub-mesh for the fender/ quarter panel are tied to the wheel arch vertices ( a sign of sloppy modeling) and would be disturbed if the modeler decided to round them out , also PD has simply updated the models by rounding the edges / replacing parts. Hence why the Hyundai logo / stick shift got rounded out but not the surrounding area.s PD just updated the logo/ knob as they are separate pieces. Im not saying this is bad as it would be incredibly stupid to dump good models and start from square one.But rounding out an edge isn't that much work if your mesh was made correctly. The one that TRULY baffles me is the ENZO's tailpipe, that's literally 2 minutes of work, you just select the circle and adjust the slider to the right to give it more vertices.

I wouldn't call theese models sub par at all. I would say they are even over detailed. But on another note, why would anybody waste time on manually rounding the edges when similar effect is acomplished, as you say, by applying a shader? It is amazing to see how you think everything could be fixed in a matter of minutes...can't take your posts seriouslly after that, sorry.

 

[Sojiira]

I wouldn't call theese models sub par at all. I would say they are even over detailed. But on another note, why would anybody waste time on manually rounding the edges when similar effect is acomplished, as you say, by applying a shader? It is amazing to see how you think everything could be fixed in a matter of minutes...can't take your posts seriouslly after that, sorry.

Yeah I've been using Max for over 10 years professionally and to call PD modelers sub-par.. smh. That post totally reminded me of this;

but who knows maybe Frog is a kickass modeler who can teach PD a thing or two.

 

[emula]

On the Hyundai genesis the external part of the rims is clearly more rounded in GTS

 

[ImaRobot]

I wouldn't call theese models sub par at all. I would say they are even over detailed. But on another note, why would anybody waste time on manually rounding the edges when similar effect is acomplished, as you say, by applying a shader? It is amazing to see how you think everything could be fixed in a matter of minutes...can't take your posts seriouslly after that, sorry.

They aren't overmodeled. If they were, they wouldn't be showing any signs of polygons whatsoever. I'm not saying they're bad in anyway. However, their lighting and shaders are top notch, which makes everything work well together.

 

[Volksauto]

Was there a comparison of the Sambabus yet?

 

[emula]

Was there a comparison of the Sambabus yet?

yes

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gts-vs-gt6-cars-comparison.370800/page-3#post-12126514

 

[KingFrog]

On the Hyundai genesis the external part of the rims is clearly more rounded in GTS

you must be blind if you don't see the polygons are not round, it seems it had one extra vertex added ( x2) as GT sport has an extra line between the original GT6 version. Also to the ignorant fools calling me an idiot, please open Maya or Cad, making round edges is literally done by adjusting a slider. https://knowledge.autodesk.com/supp...66B628EE-3E6C-482F-87F1-56C0AB881F28-htm.html I never said ALL of PD were subpar, I said those models in specific were, especially when we have models that have ZERO visible polygons. We're talking round edges, not complex fender flares, headlamps. Modeling cars is difficult as they use pretty complex shapes, bur rims? ANYONE can make a rim EDGE, ANd Emula basically proved PD did touch it , but only doubled the vertices, everything else is identical. EDIT I messed up on Point 7-8 but couldn't be bothered fixing it, the vertex is above the 7th circle and 8 was supposed to be at the very corner, thee new windows 3d paint scrolls up when you do to.

 

[Aphelion]

you must be blind if you don't see the polygons are not round, it seems it had one extra vertex added ( x2) as GT sport has an extra line between the original GT6 version. Also to the ignorant fools calling me an idiot, please open Maya or Cad, making round edges is literally done by adjusting a slider. https://knowledge.autodesk.com/supp...66B628EE-3E6C-482F-87F1-56C0AB881F28-htm.html I never said ALL of PD were subpar, I said those models in specific were, especially when we have models that have ZERO visible polygons. We're talking round edges, not complex fender flares, headlamps. Modeling cars is difficult as they use pretty complex shapes, bur rims? ANYONE can make a rim EDGE, ANd Emula basically proved PD did touch it , but only doubled the vertices, everything else is identical. EDIT I messed up on Point 7-8 but couldn't be bothered fixing it, the vertex is above the 7th circle and 8 was supposed to be at the very corner, thee new windows 3d paint scrolls up when you do to.

All he said was "more rounded", which is exactly what it is

 

[KingFrog]

All he said was "more rounded", which is exactly what it is

And it also shows whoever did that work is either lazy or incompetent because it doesn't take any effort to make it round, The wheel arches above are horrible, if you play chrome paint you can CLEARLY see the curves. I understand designing cars is HARD, but these are CURVES that are NOT made by hand, they are made by adjusting a slider in EVERY modeling program. I feel like a bit of these jagged edges are either oversights or signs of bad mesh maps. A mesh map can be scaled by creating a sort of transition ring around a circle this allows that ring to be disturbed but not the surrounding area. This is exactly how PD managed to make tesselating cars, only certain parts of the mesh would tesselate without making the car look like a deforming blob. This is a very crude example. I learned this the hard way in inventor after trying to make circles bigger causing the rest of my model stretch and deform. meaning the parts no longer snapped into place. Cad Inventor and Maya do this automatically when giving anything a curved edge/ bezel but it gives you errors if it disturbs the mesh ( which you can manually override) . My crudely drawn picture below demonstrates this since PD is working with complex shapes it would take serious effort to make a curved edge. BUT this shouldn't be an issue in the first place had they future proofed cars. The square represents a flat plane and the hexagon represents the original cut out ( in picture one the triangles can increase decrease WITHOUT disturbing the flat surface or even a curved surface ) . I was too lazy to make lines but assume the circles are made of lines.

 

[azeeza]

@KingFrog If these little imperfectionimperfections make you mad and arrogant, you can stop looking at it
If it s so easy why games are mesh ''everywhere''

 

[TheNuvolari]

Now I understand why PD wants to make super-premiums...

 

[emula]

you must be blind if you don't see the polygons are not round, it seems it had one extra vertex added ( x2) as GT sport has an extra line between the original GT6 version. Also to the ignorant fools calling me an idiot, please open Maya or Cad, making round edges is literally done by adjusting a slider. https://knowledge.autodesk.com/supp...66B628EE-3E6C-482F-87F1-56C0AB881F28-htm.html I never said ALL of PD were subpar, I said those models in specific were, especially when we have models that have ZERO visible polygons. We're talking round edges, not complex fender flares, headlamps. Modeling cars is difficult as they use pretty complex shapes, bur rims? ANYONE can make a rim EDGE, ANd Emula basically proved PD did touch it , but only doubled the vertices, everything else is identical. EDIT I messed up on Point 7-8 but couldn't be bothered fixing it, the vertex is above the 7th circle and 8 was supposed to be at the very corner, thee new windows 3d paint scrolls up when you do to.

doubled the vertices → more rounded

for the rest the Hyundai genesis is an exception, 90% of GTS cars are remodeled from the scratch and/or have ZERO visible polygons... you must be blind if you don't see that (cit.)

 

[Skiddy]

And it also shows whoever did that work is either lazy or incompetent because it doesn't take any effort to make it round,

Pretty ballsy calling somebody at PD lazy or incompetent. I guess you worked on number of AAA titles, that got approved and published by Sony.

 

[TheNuvolari]

@KingFrog so you basically want PD to make ultra premium ultimately super models? I'm getting worried that some PD employees (since they are listening to the fans, I guess) takes a look at this thread, and they are starting to think that they need to make even better car models, so they would throw the current models into the bin. And nobody wants this. How many cars would the next GT have? 20?

 

[Nuschel01]

[...]

One Vision GT car with 18.574.201.594 polygones, a fully modded engine with all moving parts, a soundsystem with moving speakers and working brake calipers

 

[eran0004]

And it also shows whoever did that work is either lazy or incompetent because it doesn't take any effort to make it round, The wheel arches above are horrible, if you play chrome paint you can CLEARLY see the curves. I understand designing cars is HARD, but these are CURVES that are NOT made by hand, they are made by adjusting a slider in EVERY modeling program. I feel like a bit of these jagged edges are either oversights or signs of bad mesh maps. A mesh map can be scaled by creating a sort of transition ring around a circle this allows that ring to be disturbed but not the surrounding area. This is exactly how PD managed to make tesselating cars, only certain parts of the mesh would tesselate without making the car look like a deforming blob. This is a very crude example. I learned this the hard way in inventor after trying to make circles bigger causing the rest of my model stretch and deform. meaning the parts no longer snapped into place. Cad Inventor and Maya do this automatically when giving anything a curved edge/ bezel but it gives you errors if it disturbs the mesh ( which you can manually override) . My crudely drawn picture below demonstrates this since PD is working with complex shapes it would take serious effort to make a curved edge. BUT this shouldn't be an issue in the first place had they future proofed cars. The square represents a flat plane and the hexagon represents the original cut out ( in picture one the triangles can increase decrease WITHOUT disturbing the flat surface or even a curved surface ) . I was too lazy to make lines but assume the circles are made of lines.
View attachment 705562

What are those images showing? It would probably be much clearer if you weren't too lazy to complete them.

 

[Nuschel01]

[...]

If you look really close you can spot the edges shown in the left picture are still there on the right one albeit significantly less obvious

 

[eran0004]

If you look really close you can spot the edges shown in the left picture are still there on the right one albeit significantly less obvious

I don't think we're talking about the same pictures.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

I have pretty extensive knowledge on 3d modeling and can immediately spot these issues as I know the tricks company's use.

After reading your posts on the subject I am starting to seriously doubt that. Knowledge? maybe, extensive? No. In what world would you call someone lazy or incompetent then put a tick next to a crude drawing showing at least 12 polygons with 6+ sides? That's both lazy and incompetent.