Guns

[Northstar]

Unless you're a cop or some other profession that actually needs hand guns I don't see why people even need them. I however feel that hunting rifles are fine as long as they are used for that purpose.

 

[Bram Turismo]

That's why I think it pretty much depends on the crime rates in a country. People in the USA feel a big need to able to defend themselves, there may be a reason the most dangerous prisons are situated in America. America is also home of the melting pot, which may lead to a lot of conflicts between culture which may take its toll on the life of the usual citizens. As I said, in a country like Norway there is no need to own a gun. Leave your house door open and people will shut it for you. Leave your car open for a week, and it'll still be there. Owning a gun is not necessary. It is, however, needed to stabilize the population of different species of animals, but that's as far as it goes. If you want to own a gun, you need a hunting license, which requires many lessons to be taken. And even of you have your license, the use of guns is only allowed in the hunting periods.

 

[FoolKiller]

Personally I am against laws which make it easy for people to get their hands on guns,

There is no such thing as a law that allows you to do something or makes it easier. Laws only limit rights, they never give them. But that is all just semantics.

especially when you see teenachers shooting their fellow pupils at school.

Bad parenting has nothing to do with gun control, but everything to do with teenagers getting their hands on guns.

Make it easier for people to get their hands on guns and your also making it easier for criminals to get their hands on guns, and that's how I view on this topic. I cannot see anything that points in the direction of a loose gun law that hightens the safety in a country. But oh well, so much for my view.

Can you show me where premeditated criminals are using legally obtained guns? Guns are a black market commodity and you will find most criminals are using guns they obtained that way. They are criminals, meaning they break the law, so why would a law preventing gun ownership suddenly prevent them from getting one? That's like saying laws against drugs will stop drug users, which obviously isn't the case.

Legally obtained guns used in crimes are crimes of passion or where someone who did not have criminal intent eventually snaps.

The purpose of people legally obtaining guns for protection is to stop the guys who get guns illegally. Take away legal ownership and you have criminals with guns and innocents, like in this news story, without one.

Unless you're a cop or some other profession that actually needs hand guns I don't see why people even need them.

Because cops always show up before the crime happens? What good is a cop with a gun when he shows up five minutes after the crime is reported?

But I can give you the reason why guns are legal in the United States, as stated by the founders of our country:

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Translation: Because sometimes government can turn bad and you have to have a way to stop it.

I however feel that hunting rifles are fine as long as they are used for that purpose.

So, you think that a guy who is having his life threatened would be wrong to use his hunting rifle to defend his own life, or to prevent his wife or daughter from being raped?

So, in your mind, in the story I posted the guy with the gun should have just sat their meekly, hoped they didn't get killed, and then called the police after some of the women had been raped and possibly murdered? Are you saying that what he did was wrong?

That's why I think it pretty much depends on the crime rates in a country. People in the USA feel a big need to able to defend themselves,

You don't think any of it could be that defending ourselves, our rights, and our liberties was how we became a country to begin with? Because guns were made a guaranteed right over 200 years ago.

 

[Exorcet]

Guns should be legal. Banning them would cause more problems than it would solve, or at best do nothing. Problem with making guns illegal is that criminals (who would illegally obtain guns) would have advantages over the average person.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Can you show me where premeditated criminals are using legally obtained guns? Guns are a black market commodity and you will find most criminals are using guns they obtained that way. They are criminals, meaning they break the law, so why would a law preventing gun ownership suddenly prevent them from getting one? That's like saying laws against drugs will stop drug users, which obviously isn't the case.

I refuse to believe that stricter gun control does not affect the black market.

The purpose of people legally obtaining guns for protection is to stop the guys who get guns illegally. Take away legal ownership and you have criminals with guns and innocents, like in this news story, without one.

Wouldn't that create something like a gun riot after time though? People might use guns for the smallest things, and in my opinion it opens up new paths for people to get things easier done. Do you think people need to own guns to shoot down bad guys? I believe stricter gun control makes it possible for areas to become more safe instead of people grabbing to their guns each time an unknown someone rings the doorbell.

You don't think any of it could be that defending ourselves, our rights, and our liberties was how we became a country to begin with? Because guns were made a guaranteed right over 200 years ago.

So because countries were made through war you also have the right to just own a weapon? I don't think many countries around the world would look the same as they do today without wars in the past. But they don't want freedom when it comes to gun control...

 

[FoolKiller]

I refuse to believe that stricter gun control does not affect the black market.

For ten years we had an assault weapons ban, yet somehow you still heard about people using assault weapons in crimes.

It is impossible to legally obtain certain drugs but people get them all the time, why would guns be any different?

Where does your belief come from? What makes you think this way?

Wouldn't that create something like a gun riot after time though? People might use guns for the smallest things, and in my opinion it opens up new paths for people to get things easier done. Do you think people need to own guns to shoot down bad guys? I believe stricter gun control makes it possible for areas to become more safe instead of people grabbing to their guns each time an unknown someone rings the doorbell.

It has been 218 years since the Second Amendment guaranteed gun ownership as a right in the United States, and people had guns before then. Not a single gun riot in our history. So, try again.

Why are you under this false notion that someone who owns a gun will just start using it for whatever reason they see fit? From this comment it seems like you think they are all a bunch of paranoid freaks who poke the gun barrel out the door before they open it.

It seems like you may have some kind of prejudiced view of US gun owning citizens as some kind of cowboys ready to whip their guns out and shoot at the slightest inclination, when the truth is the National rifle Association provides tons of gun safety courses and gun owners go to shooting ranges to learn how to properly use and handle a gun. Sure a few idiots will misuse them, but they'll misuse anything.

So because countries were made through war you also have the right to just own a weapon?

No, we have the right to own a weapon for the same reason we would have it taken away: Governments like to get too big and sometimes you have to defend your rights against those who are supposed to protect them for you.

 

[Pako]

Gun control punishes the responsible gun owner, not the criminals using the guns to kill and threaten people. I wish these left wing liberals could see that. The gun isn't the issue, the criminal is the issue and regardless of what governmental regulations are put on guns, the criminal will ALWAYS find a means to obtain weapons that will help them be criminals.

 

[FoolKiller]

Pako, it is interesting that you would post just as I run across this:

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/92133

Executive Summary – The USA state of Montana has signed into power a revolutionary gun law. I mean REVOLUTIONARY.Posted May 6th, 2009 by dunnowhat2use

The State of Montana has defied the federal government and their gun laws. This will prompt a showdown between the federal government and the State of Montana. The federal government fears citizens owning guns. They try to curtail what types of guns they can own. The gun control laws all have one common goal – confiscation of privately owned firearms.

Montana has gone beyond drawing a line in the sand. They have challenged the Federal Government. The fed now either takes them on and risks them saying the federal agents have no right to violate their state gun laws and arrest the federal agents that try to enforce the federal firearms acts. This will be a world-class event to watch. Montana could go to voting for secession from the union, which is really throwing the gauntlet in Obamas face. If the federal government does nothing they lose face. Gotta love it.

Important Points – If guns and ammunition are manufactured inside the State of Montana for sale and use inside that state then the federal firearms laws have no applicability since the federal government only has the power to control commerce across state lines. Montana has the law on their side. Since when did the USA start following their own laws especially the constitution of the USA, the very document that empowers the USA.

Silencers made in Montana and sold in Montana would be fully legal and not registered. As a note silencers were first used before the 007 movies as a device to enable one to hunt without disturbing neighbors and scaring game. They were also useful as devices to control noise when practicing so as to not disturb the neighbors.

Silencers work best with a bolt-action rifle. There is a long barrel and the chamber is closed tight so as to direct all the gases though the silencer at the tip of the barrel. Semi-auto pistols and revolvers do not really muffle the sound very well except on the silver screen. The revolvers bleed gas out with the sound all over the place. The semi-auto pistols bleed the gases out when the slide recoils back.

Silencers are maybe nice for snipers picking off enemy soldiers even though they reduce velocity but not very practical for hit men shooting pistols in crowded places. Silencers were useful tools for gun enthusiasts and hunters.

There would be no firearm registration, serial numbers, criminal records check, waiting periods or paperwork required. So in a short period of time there would be millions and millions of unregistered untraceable guns in Montana. Way to go Montana.

Full law text here

Looks like we can get a full test of these criminals running out and easily buying guns to start gun riots and whatnot.

 

[Tornado]

What are the odds that Texas follows suit?

 

[Pako]

Pako, it is interesting that you would post just as I run across this:

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/92133


Looks like we can get a full test of these criminals running out and easily buying guns to start gun riots and whatnot.

There are a lot of anti-government folks around here, but they wouldn't hurt anybody. They like to hunt and collect guns. The local hunters, although they mount most of their game, eat everything they kill and in a lot of cases stock up meat for their family for the season. Come on their property and try to take their rights away and you may have a problem on your hands.....

You know, we don't think twice about giving a kid access to a 2500lb chunk of metal capable of speeds exceeding 100 mph. Now, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the destructive power of a 2500lb vehicle at those speeds, even at 60 mph should scare the snot out of each and every person out on the road, yet we hand out drivers permits like hot cakes. Please, check your local news and tell me how many deaths there were due to gun shootings and compare those to how many deaths there were by vehicle accidents. You tell me what should be taken away, and I don't think you will find that it's a gun.

This is interesting. Some statistics for ya.

What's scary, it appears that Montana has the highest motor vehicle death rate in the United States. That's comforting to know. Everyone's worried about guns, they should be scared to death to get into their car and drive to work.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Remember my "I'm Moving to Montana" thread?

I had posted the reason why. This is the same issue now being posted here.

I also posted the reason why I'm not currently moving to Montana.

It seems the 9th Circuit courts, which presides over California, Nevada, Arizona, Montana, Oregon, Washington, Alaska, Hawaii, Idaho and the area of Guam decided to INCORPERATE the 2nd Amendment into these states. Since the Supreme Court ruled last year that the 2nd Amendment includes INDIVIDUALS, not just "a collective" right to bear arms, I'm now have the power of using the 2nd Amendment of the US to GUARANTEE my INDIVIDUAL right to bear arms (thanks to the 14th Amendment).

This opens the door to TONS of lawsuits against those that oppress our firearm rights.

 

[Tornado]

What's scary, it appears that Montana has the highest motor vehicle death rate in the United States. That's comforting to know. Everyone's worried about guns, they should be scared to death to get into their car and drive to work.

That might be because of Montana's...lax laws surrounding speed limits.

 

[Solid Lifters]

That might be because of Montana's...lax laws surrounding speed limits.

And that it attracts a lot of idiots from surrounding states to, "...go as fast as I want."

 

[Pako]

That might be because of Montana's...lax laws surrounding speed limits.

And that it attracts a lot of idiots from surrounding states to, "...go as fast as I want."

We do have speed limit laws and get tickets like everyone else. The roads are terrible, that might have something to do with it, that and all the drinking and driving that 2nd nature out here.

 

[Solid Lifters]

We do have speed limit laws and get tickets like everyone else. The roads are terrible, that might have something to do with it, that and all the drinking and driving that 2nd nature out here.

I cannot stand drunk drivers. We have a plague of them here, too. Most are hispanic.

Oh, need more proof why we need to hold on to our gun rights?

Here ya go...

 

[Joey D]

I still sort of on the fence about guns, I support the right to own them but it still irritates me that people can purchase them with zero training on how to safely handle and use them. I can't use a car without going through all the proper training and testing, but for some reason I can use a gun without any training at all. I still think people should be able to own guns, however I think they should have to go through an extensive training process and get a license like a driver's license. I know a concealed weapons permit is sort of like that, but I still believe it could be more extensive.

 

[Solid Lifters]

I still sort of on the fence about guns, I support the right to own them but it still irritates me that people can purchase them with zero training on how to safely handle and use them. I can't use a car without going through all the proper training and testing, but for some reason I can use a gun without any training at all. I still think people should be able to own guns, however I think they should have to go through an extensive training process and get a license like a driver's license. I know a concealed weapons permit is sort of like that, but I still believe it could be more extensive.

People have the obligation to learn proper firearms training, if they need it, when and if they decide to own their first firearm. Most don't need to be trained. Most firearm purchases are made by people who already have a firearm and know how to use it.

I don't think we should have any laws of the kind. It's not needed at all. People need to be self responsible for either being taught or trained to use a firearm before or right after they purchase their first firearm.

I think NEW, and only new, firearm owners should be forced by laws to show proof they can use a firearm correctly if the laws are to exist. It makes no sense whatsoever to involve people who already own firearms. We don't have to show proof we can drive a car every time we purchase a new car, do we?

 

[Joey D]

People have the obligation to learn proper firearms training, if they need it, when and if they decide to own their first firearm. Most don't need to be trained. Most firearm purchases are made by people who already have a firearm and know how to use it.

I don't think we should have any laws of the kind. It's not needed at all. People need to be self responsible for either being taught or trained to use a firearm before or right after they purchase their first firearm.

I think NEW, and only new, firearm owners should be forced by laws to show proof they can use a firearm correctly if the laws are to exist. It makes no sense whatsoever to involve people who already own firearms. We don't have to show proof we can drive a car every time we purchase a new car, do we?

Who decides if people know how to use firearms? I'm willing to bet most people have no idea how to properly handle firearms, especially those who have used them for years. I know when my dad took a safety course he learned things and he'd had guns for almost 50 years. Just because you think you know something doesn't mean you do. I've taken a couple firearm safety courses, as well as spent many hours on the range learning how my various firearms react. However, I still feel there is more I could learn and improve on to be a more responsible gun owner.

I actually think those who own a bunch of firearms or have owned them for a long time are more likely to have an accident because they are either over confident or waver in their judgement. I mean what could it hurt to have refresher courses every 5, 7, or 10 years? If you can't be bothered with that then I don't think you have any business owning a firearm because it shows a disregard for safety. I have to get retained on things all the time that are far less deadly than a firearm.

Oh and you do have to show some sort of proof when you purchase a car that you are at least a halfway decent driver because insurance companies will not give you a policy if you fail at operating a vehicle.

 

[FoolKiller]

I still sort of on the fence about guns, I support the right to own them but it still irritates me that people can purchase them with zero training on how to safely handle and use them. I can't use a car without going through all the proper training and testing, but for some reason I can use a gun without any training at all. I still think people should be able to own guns, however I think they should have to go through an extensive training process and get a license like a driver's license. I know a concealed weapons permit is sort of like that, but I still believe it could be more extensive.

Comparing a drivers license to training for using a gun isn't even close to the same thing. One is heavy machinery while the other is a tool. It's like comparing using a bulldozer to a nail gun. Both are very dangerous if you aren't careful, but only one requires training.

And define extensive. Learn how to load/unload, use the safety, and aim? I mean, a first time gun user knows one end is the deadly end. People who won't show proper respect for safety won't be any bettter after a course.

Now a person should regularly use the gun so that they are used to it, but outside of safety training, which I learned in cub scouts, what extensive training do you need? I mean, I can think of tons of equally deadly items that don't require any form of training and are used much more often by a larger percentage of the population. Just walk into a home improvement store and look at how many extremely deadly and dangerous items you could walk out with.

We don't have to show proof we can drive a car every time we purchase a new car, do we?

Actually, yes. Driver's license and proof of insurance. But a car is heavy machinery.


But as for training what can I learn now that I didn't learn as a kid in scouts? I had a hunting license but never owned a gun. I don't have that old hunting license anymore (never actually hunt, just fish) so unless there is some state record of it I don't know how to prove that I have had gun safety and can hit clay pigeons 3/3. I have never owned a gun myself but have used .22 rifles, 12 and 20 gauge shotguns, and a .22 pistol and I have shot stationary and moving targets, as well as numerous pests. But aside from a hunting license as a teenager I have no evidence that I have had safety training. If my mom saved all my crap from scouts and summer camps I don't know.

Now, were I to decide to buy a gun, which I likely won't as long as I am intending to have kids, I would personally request to be shown how to properly service and clean a gun. But people own guns their entire lives without knowing that, so it isn't a necessity.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Who decides if people know how to use firearms?

Anybody with experience is good enough. The seller or gun shop owner is good enough. If people follow simple rules, 1.) Never point a gun at a person unless you intend to shoot that person, 2.) Always treat a firearm as if it was loaded, 3.) Always point the firearm in a safe direction and finally 4.) Never put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire, it's good enough to keep things safe.

There are organizations that help people learn these simple rules. Knowing how to use a firearm safely is not as difficult as a car.

I'm willing to bet most people have no idea how to properly handle firearms, especially those who have used them for years. I know when my dad took a safety course he learned things and he'd had guns for almost 50 years. Just because you think you know something doesn't mean you do. I've taken a couple firearm safety courses, as well as spent many hours on the range learning how my various firearms react. However, I still feel there is more I could learn and improve on to be a more responsible gun owner.

I don't agree. I've trained people to use firearms when I used to be a NRA instructor. They pretty much knew all the basics. The only exception were the new firearm owners or those who have never fired a firearm before.

I actually think those who own a bunch of firearms or have owned them for a long time are more likely to have an accident because they are either over confident or waver in their judgement.

I completely disagree. It is usually a kid from a family who don't have firearms in the house that ends up causing an accident.

I mean what could it hurt to have refresher courses every 5, 7, or 10 years? If you can't be bothered with that then I don't think you have any business owning a firearm because it shows a disregard for safety. I have to get retained on things all the time that are far less deadly than a firearm.

The basic rules I've pointed out are easily understood and memorable. There's no need to force people into a 'refresher course.' Regularly shooting your firearms is good enough.

Oh and you do have to show some sort of proof when you purchase a car that you are at least a halfway decent driver because insurance companies will not give you a policy if you fail at operating a vehicle.

But they don't have to got to the DMV and take a test all over again, which was my point.

 

[Joey D]

I said like a drivers license, not go through the same process of training that is involved with driving a car. Obviously the training would be quite different as you said they both serve different functions.

I can't think of several things for extensive training, especially with handguns. If you are going to be carrying it and if the need arises use it, then you should know what the heck you are doing. Police officers spend quite a bit of time on the range learning how to shoot safely and they need to be requalified quite frequently. I'm not saying the people should go through the same rigorous training police officers do, but defiantly something along those lines. Yes the basics of a gun are very simple, but so are the basics of anything. In order to use something safely and effectively you need to have more then just the basic skill set.

I also think you forget, the point of a saw or a drill is not to kill someone or something, but rather to build or repair something. A guns purpose is to kill and I think a lot of problems come from the mentality that just because you own a gun makes you some how god. I don't get all hyped up when I have to dig the drill out of the workroom.

Anybody with experience is good enough. The seller or gun shop owner is good enough. If people follow simple rules, 1.) Never point a gun at a person unless you intend to shoot that person, 2.) Always treat a firearm as if it was loaded, 3.) Always point the firearm in a safe direction and finally 4.) Never put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire, it's good enough to keep things safe.

Yes those are the basics. However, say you were faced with a home intruder and you had access to your gun, would you know how to effectively use it in that situation? You can sit here behind a computer and tell me how easy it is, but when you are in a high tension situation you forget a lot of the rule. Heck even the thrill of the hunt makes people forget rules. Through training those ideas become second nature and less likely to be forgotten.

There are organizations that help people learn these simple rules. Knowing how to use a firearm safely is not as difficult as a car.

But with a car you basically just steer around the obstacles, right? See if you break something down to it's basics it isn't hard, but if you really think about it you can see where you need training. I've been driving for 6 years now and I still think there is much I could learn to be a better and safer driver. I've been shooting for longer and I still think there is a lot I can learn to improve my technique and stay calm under pressure. If I ever do have an intruder in my home I want to know I can keep my family safe while protecting my property. I don't want to just jump up and start firing randomly or getting this idea I can be Bruce Willis and be the hero.

I completely disagree. It is usually a kid from a family who don't have firearms in the house that ends up causing an accident.

Seems to me the most accidents around here are ignorant hunters who get doped up on the killing of a deer that have accidents. Yes I agree kids that have never had access to firearms do have accidents but I think now days more kids fear guns because they can see what they do by simply turning on the TV or their Xbox.

The basic rules I've pointed out are easily understood and memorable. There's no need to force people into a 'refresher course.' Regularly shooting your firearms is good enough.

I hate that attitude when it comes to anything. Just because you think you know how to do something doesn't mean you do. Gun advocates are probably one of the worse offenders of this, along side those who think they are driving gods. As I've stated the basics are easy to memorise for sure, but are the easily recall under a situation that has high tension or high adrenalin? That is probably doubtful. If you get a refresher course it helps those ideas stay in your head and you are less likely to forget them and it helps people to not become over confident.

 

[FoolKiller]

I also think you forget, the point of a saw or a drill is not to kill someone or something, but rather to build or repair something. A guns purpose is to kill and I think a lot of problems come from the mentality that just because you own a gun makes you some how god. I don't get all hyped up when I have to dig the drill out of the workroom.

That might not be their intended use, but most power tools can kill you when used improperly. Only people you intend to kill should die from a gun, just as only tree limbs you intend to cut should be cut by a chainsaw.

And be careful about lumping all gun owners as hyped up freaks with a god complex.

And you've really never had a Tim Taylor moment when digging out power tools?

EDIT:

As I've stated the basics are easy to memorise for sure, but are the easily recall under a situation that has high tension or high adrenalin? That is probably doubtful. If you get a refresher course it helps those ideas stay in your head and you are less likely to forget them and it helps people to not become over confident.

But does that justify forcing it on people? If they don't get a refresher should we raid their homes and take their guns that they paid for? How do you enforce refresher courses for owning something that may never leave a lockbox?

 

[Joey D]

That might not be their intended use, but most power tools can kill you when used improperly. Only people you intend to kill should die from a gun, just as only tree limbs you intend to cut should be cut by a chainsaw.

I'm not disagreeing with that, however guns were designed to kill whereas chainsaws were designed to cut wood. You can hurt yourself or rather even kill yourself with a pencil.

And be careful about lumping all gun owners as hyped up freaks with a god complex.

And you've really never had a Tim Taylor moment when digging out power tools?

It's not my intention to lump all gun owners into the same category. I go shooting with a large group of men and women who take gun ownership in the same light I do. We are all confident in our abilities, however we aren't overconfident and believe there is always room for improvement and training. It just seems that most of the time those who are the biggest loudest supporters of gun rights often times are those who think they are fine with just the basics, which is why I believe they are met with so much resistance from the other side. I think if more gun owners followed a similar path as I follow then the Liberal left wouldn't be so opposed to gun ownership and make such a stink about it.

And the only time I ever had a Tim Taylor moment was when I got my Sawzall and cut up the frame to my truck to lower it. I hurt myself in the process because I wasn't thinking., now I tend to have a lot more respect for my tools and what they can do...although accidents still happen.

EDIT:But does that justify forcing it on people? If they don't get a refresher should we raid their homes and take their guns that they paid for? How do you enforce refresher courses for owning something that may never leave a lockbox?

Yes I think it justifies it. The refresher course could be a simple as taking a test to prove that you still understand those basics. If you are going to own something like a firearm, it shouldn't really bother you that you are being asked to prove you can handle it safely. Especially when proving that safety just reinforces that people should be allowed to own guns.

I don't have the answers on all the logistics of how to go about doing this, nor should one person be excepted to have all the answers. My idea would be to have people have a license similar to how your drivers license is, when you wish to renew it you take a quick refresher course and there you go you get your license. And even though this should be saved for a different discussion I think your drivers license should be treated in the same manner. Even though you or Solid Lifters might not forget, I'm willing to bet there are a lot of people out there that do forget the basics...if there weren't we wouldn't have as many accident.

 

[Exorcet]

I also think you forget, the point of a saw or a drill is not to kill someone or something, but rather to build or repair something. A guns purpose is to kill and I think a lot of problems come from the mentality that just because you own a gun makes you some how god. I don't get all hyped up when I have to dig the drill out of the workroom.

Who says guns are purely for killing? Shooting is a sport as well as self defense. Baseball bats can do some bad damage if someone wanted them to, just like power tools.

I don't know if handling a gun makes someone feel superior. I would think that would be part of the person's own mentality. I treat a gun carefully, just as I treat a car while I'm driving. They [gun or car] aren't meant to promote senseless killing, but either could at any moment through carelessness or misuse.

 

[Solid Fro]

That's the most intelligent thing I've read all day, Exorcet. 👍

I still have mad hawts for the Bushmaster ACR/Magpul Masada. Maybe I should move to Montana.

 

[Omnis]

Speaking of the Montana thing... you guys know that there is going to be a serious showdown between the state and the feds. How many people here will move to or fight for Montana god forbid it comes down to the feds coming down on it? If it comes to secession?

I wonder if Magpul will have a factory in Montana. That looks like an awesome gun. If the entire system is built in the state where it's sold, the feds can't justify their gun-grabbing with the interstate commerce clause. Win.

 

[Bram Turismo]

For ten years we had an assault weapons ban, yet somehow you still heard about people using assault weapons in crimes.

It is impossible to legally obtain certain drugs but people get them all the time, why would guns be any different?

Where does your belief come from? What makes you think this way?


It has been 218 years since the Second Amendment guaranteed gun ownership as a right in the United States, and people had guns before then. Not a single gun riot in our history. So, try again.

Why are you under this false notion that someone who owns a gun will just start using it for whatever reason they see fit? From this comment it seems like you think they are all a bunch of paranoid freaks who poke the gun barrel out the door before they open it.

It seems like you may have some kind of prejudiced view of US gun owning citizens as some kind of cowboys ready to whip their guns out and shoot at the slightest inclination, when the truth is the National rifle Association provides tons of gun safety courses and gun owners go to shooting ranges to learn how to properly use and handle a gun. Sure a few idiots will misuse them, but they'll misuse anything.


No, we have the right to own a weapon for the same reason we would have it taken away: Governments like to get too big and sometimes you have to defend your rights against those who are supposed to protect them for you.

You seemed to be a little offensed by the post I made, so allow me to apologize for any inconvenience 👍

I do have a prejudice when it comes to the US and guns. But this is only due to the information I have heard and seen on the internet, TV, books or whatnot (news stories about young men killing others in school). You can't really expect me to study the American Constitution before I have the right to post in here, but I will admit on my behalf that I could've studied through gun control a little more before I release my rants

On that, I think the way of life between us is so different that I cannot imagine owning a firearm. I'd be afraid to shoot myself in the foot, hence why I think Joey made a good point of people required a basic training before purchasing a weapon. If I'd see someone on the streets with a weapon, I'd freak out myself. I don't know if you Americans carry firearms at all times, but I can understand it would be normal since the risk of you getting attacked is much greater than here.

Once again, apologies if I offended you in any way 👍 I will now retreat from this discussion and look deeper into the facts. Since I'm not American, I feel like a discussion like this is not a place for a Norwegian to be

 

[Joey D]

Who says guns are purely for killing? Shooting is a sport as well as self defense. Baseball bats can do some bad damage if someone wanted them to, just like power tools.

I don't know if handling a gun makes someone feel superior. I would think that would be part of the person's own mentality. I treat a gun carefully, just as I treat a car while I'm driving. They [gun or car] aren't meant to promote senseless killing, but either could at any moment through carelessness or misuse.

I didn't say it was the sole purpose, I said that a gun is designed to kill. There are other adaptive uses for it, but it's main function is to be a tool that you kill with. It doesn't have to be people, but rather animals as well.

I also didn't say that anyone who picks up a gun instantly turns into a killer. I said a lot of problems with guns come from that mentality. Just about every gun owner I've ever talked to at least gets some sort of adrenalin flowing when they are shooting, because guns aren't exactly dull. There are always going to be those who take anything to far and I have a feeling that with guns there are quite a few that would.

 

[Solid Fro]

You can't really expect me to study the American Constitution before I have the right to post in here, but I will admit on my behalf that I could've studied through gun control a little more before I release my rants

You can start by reading the Second Amendment to the US Constitution. There is a reason why it's the second one.

 

[Exorcet]

I didn't say it was the sole purpose, I said that a gun is designed to kill. There are other adaptive uses for it, but it's main function is to be a tool that you kill with. It doesn't have to be people, but rather animals as well.

I also didn't say that anyone who picks up a gun instantly turns into a killer. I said a lot of problems with guns come from that mentality. Just about every gun owner I've ever talked to at least gets some sort of adrenalin flowing when they are shooting, because guns aren't exactly dull. There are always going to be those who take anything to far and I have a feeling that with guns there are quite a few that would.

Most of the guns I shoot are designed for sport. Killing isn't even a secondary priority. You don't have to shoot people or animals; paper, pumpkins, random objects, they all work fine. I've done a lot a shooting, but have never killed or intended to kill anything with a single shot.

I haven't seen people get overly excited about guns either. I joined a shooting range in high school, and everyone from age 5 to 80 could be found shooting there. There was never a gun related injury, not even one, in the four years I shot at the range. Everyone there respected guns, there was no getting carried away in an adrenilne rush, as fun as it was to obliterate lines of targets down range.

There are always going to be those who take anything to far.

Yep, and that applies to everything beyond guns.