Guns

[Keef]

This is just something that looks legit I found on another forum.
It does say handguns must be quipped with trigger locks, but I gotta say, this stuff's hard to find, so for anyone who wants or demands proof, you're better off looking yourself, cause I'm not finding much so far

"Looks legit" doesn't cut it.

State laws and statutes are public domain and available on the internet. Look harder. I suggest starting with "Pennsylvania state laws" or something similarly obvious.

 

[TrievelA7X]

OR, I can do this:
You guys are right, I was wrong, about everything. You do not need proof for this, and neither do I.
Have fun now boys.

 

[Danoff]

OR, I can do this:
You guys are right, I was wrong, about everything. You do not need proof for this, and neither do I.
Have fun now boys.

Ok. Now we can get to back the original post.

1. Legally, (ahem, Danoff) you may not keep them fully loaded, at which point, 90% of the time, self-defense is no longer an option, cause the criminals gun has been loaded since before he spotted you.

Not substantiated in any State

This was of particular interest to me because Trievel was claiming that I am engaging in illegal activity.

2. That's absurd.

False

Guns jam all the time. This is common knowledge.

3. If you have kids in the house, they must be locked up, and not with your ammo.

Not substantiated in any state

4. So now, I have a 10 month old son, and if someone breaks in, i have to go to the gun cabinet, unlock it, pull a gun out, take off the trigger lock, go to the ammo, which I was forced to store away from the gun, and load it.

Not substantiated in any state

5. I sure hope if I get robbed at night the criminal is in a wheelchair!

Requires the above to be substantiated.

6. If the criminals deaf it'd be nice too, cause uncle Sam says I gotta make this self-defense take 2.5 minutes, and I must make as much noise as possible doing it, so he has a chance to shoot me and my family first.

Not substantiated in any state

Trievel, this was the original post I was responding to, and you can quite clearly see why I take issue with it. It makes many unsupported claims about US law and then draws conclusions from those unsupported claims.

 

[TrievelA7X]

This was of particular interest to me because Trievel was claiming that I am engaging in illegal activity. FalseGuns jam all the time. This is common knowledge.

Like I said, you're right and I'm wrong. You win:tup:

Now you're wondering why I quoted just this part?
I can't tell you why i'm bothering, but here goes nothing.
False? what's false? At this point, the statement is made of certain things being illegal, (which aren't), which I thought were absurd. And you say "false". Are you saying that wouldn't be absurd? Oh wait, that's right, you can't seem to grasp plain English!

Let's take a look shall we? (this is funny)
Ahem, I said:

1. Legally, (ahem, Danoff) you may not keep them fully loaded, at which point, 90% of the time, self-defense is no longer an option, cause the criminals gun has been loaded since before he spotted you.
2. That's absurd.

Why are you talking about guns jamming? Seriously? Can I say what the hell?
How could anyone respond to something like that? I'll put this in nice big bold letters so maybe, if there is a God, you'll get this one: What does a gun jamming "all the time" have anything to do with that?
And what piece of crap guns do you own that jam "all the time"? (just curiosity asking)

It's okay though, cause I'm sure your response will be awesome like this one.

 

[Picc84]

As a Hunter, Im definatly supporting the private ownership of guns, although I belive guns need to be registerd, and background checks need to be done...

If you ask me, If by killing ownership of guns is what you guys are thinking, do you really think murder rate would drop? Would Rape/Brudal Beatings raise? What about the Knife Trade? Its not going to stop much!

 

[TrievelA7X]

Responsible gun owners already take care to keep their guns locked and out of the reach of children. Requiring that all new guns be sold with trigger locks will have little effect, since the law cannot ensure that people will actually use the locks. The Clinton administration is using the tragic shooting of the 6-year old in Michigan to push mandatory trigger lock legislation, but such a law would not have saved the little girl who was shot by a classmate. The boy who shot her was living in a crack house with no responsible adult supervision, so it is unlikely that the gun's owner would have used a trigger lock even if his gun had been sold with one. Trigger locks are already available, and responsible gun owners use them; changing the law is not going to make irresponsible gun owners change their ways.

http://speakout.com/activism/issue_briefs/1201b-1.html

There you go, it's just the law about providing proof of ownership of a trigger lock or gun safe with the purchase of guns.
Nothing to say you must use them, they decided responsible gun owners would use them anyway.... Of course, that would still hinder the effect of defense, having to unlock anything, when you're groggy and confused and scared in the middle of the night...

 

[Duke]

Like I said, you're right and I'm wrong. You win:tup:

Now you're wondering why I quoted just this part?
I can't tell you why i'm bothering, but here goes nothing.
False? what's false? At this point, the statement is made of certain things being illegal, (which aren't), which I thought were absurd. And you say "false". Are you saying that wouldn't be absurd? Oh wait, that's right, you can't seem to grasp plain English!

Let's take a look shall we? (this is funny)
Ahem, I said:


Why are you talking about guns jamming? Seriously? Can I say what the hell?
How could anyone respond to something like that? I'll put this in nice big bold letters so maybe, if there is a God, you'll get this one: What does a gun jamming "all the time" have anything to do with that?
And what piece of crap guns do you own that jam "all the time"? (just curiosity asking)

It's okay though, cause I'm sure your response will be awesome like this one.

You know, you are the one who came on here with a sloppy argument full of self-admitted exaggeration. Now you are getting all defensive when asked to back that argument up. That's not how it works. If you make a claim you need to defend it accurately or it will be disregarded.

You're making the claim something is illegal and failing to back that up with the statute that says it is illegal, so your claim is in question.

Danoff cannot provide a statute that says keeping his gun loaded IS legal because laws are not written that way. If we had to explicitly describe everything that is legal, the earth would be buried under a mountain of law books miles deep. Instead they write laws so they describe what is NOT legal. That's why you are expected to back up your claim with the law text, and he isn't, NOT because some of our staff happen to agree with him.

So lay off the attitude and the accusations of favoritism, or leave the Opinions forum.

By the way, he's talking about guns jamming because his original list item #2 (from several pages ago) was about guns jamming, to which you replied "2. That's absurd." So he's responding to your reply. If your list wasn't referring to his list, then what was the "2. That's absurd" comment referencing?

 

[Danoff]

By the way, he's talking about guns jamming because his original list item #2 (from several pages ago) was about guns jamming, to which you replied "2. That's absurd." So he's responding to your reply. If your list wasn't referring to his list, then what was the "2. That's absurd" comment referencing?

👍

 

[Joel]

I think there has to be a point with guns where you draw the line. I love the gun laws in Canada because we can get basically any type of gun we want, but we have to take a course first. My dad owns 2 shotguns (12 ga. and 20 ga.) as well as a .22 rifle. These guns are locked, and the ammunition is in a separate box, which is also locked. My neighbour has all kinds of guns, ranging from war of 1812 muzzle loaders, to Mossberg 535s, to AR and AK variants. In Canada, any "centre fire" (firing pin strikes centre of cartridge) semi-automatic firearm must have magazines capped at 5 rounds (unless it's manual operation). I fully endorse this law. However, my neighbour, does not. He has an AK-47 variant, with a 60 round magazine, that he uses as a "defense weapon". I DO NOT agree with this at all, in a populated town, you just can't use a rifle for home defense. The round would just tear through everything, and go on to the next house. Use a shotgun. Not deer slugs either.

 

[Sureboss]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8168465.stm

Two young children have been shot by their siblings in the space of 24 hours in the United States.

In Las Vegas, a two-year-old girl was in a critical condition after being shot by her four-year-old brother at their home, police said.

In South Carolina, a four-year-old boy was shot in the stomach by his three-year-old brother after the little boy found a gun.

The injured boy was expected to make a full recovery, police said.

The incident in Las Vegas happened on Thursday night after the girl's brother found a loaded 9mm handgun inside their home.

It went off while he was holding it, hitting his sister in her torso.

According to police, the father was home at the time and the gun appears to have been improperly secured.

The shooting involving the two brothers happened in Gray Court, South Carolina, also on Thursday night. They and their father were staying at the home of a family friend.

Laurens County Sheriff Ricky Chastain said it appeared the younger boy found the gun under a bed and accidentally shot his brother.

The injured boy was flown to hospital, where he underwent surgery, he said.

No charges have been filed in relation to either case.

Gun debate

The two incidents come less than a week after a five-year-old boy died after shooting himself in the head.

He had found a handgun inside his father's vehicle outside a Las Vegas pharmacy.

The father in that case has been charged with child endangerment.

In the US, the right to bear arms is enshrined in the Second Amendment of the US Constitution. There are thought to be more than 200 million firearms in private hands.

Advocates of gun control face tough opposition from gun owners.

Critics of the current gun laws link high levels of gun crime and gun-related injury with high levels of gun ownership.

Truly horrible events.

 

[Mark T]

How hard is it to keep a gun under lock and key? It's just common sense to keep any kind of weapon out of the reach of children.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Its almost impossible to own a gun here in Australia..

would be interesting to see stats of % of gun related crimes for Australia vs the US taking into consideration that the US has about 15x more people..

 

[Jay]

Its almost impossible to own a gun here in Australia..

It is very possible to own guns in Australia, especially rifles but even handguns. Just a couple years ago before selling I had six myself (all above board obviously). I have posted pics of a few on these boards somewhere.


It's sad about those children, over here we have very strict storage and handling laws much for that reason.

 

[mafia_boy]

Yeah, we as a general community find it nearly impossible to get handguns unless we are registered shooters. The massacre at Port Arthur in the 90's took care of that.

In the past few years however, the black market has exploded with weapons being brought in quite easily and used on the streets of Sydney on a daily basis now. Include some outlaw bikie gangs (Comancheros, Hells Angels, Bandidos, Rebels, Gypsy Jokers, Finks, Notorious, Nomads) and a few ethnic groups with weapons (Arab & Asian primarily) and you have a recipe for a widespread destruction of lives.

Only in the past couple of weeks innocent people have become victims in this senseless wave of gun violence. For example, the TNT truck driver who was driving past a KFC a couple of weeks ago died when a stray bullet from a shootout AT the KFC went through this guys head and killed him while he was driving along at 70km/h!

If this was 10yrs ago in Sydney, none of these pussies shooting eachother today would be walking the streets acting so hard. Why?? Because without the gun, they would've been the puppets of the crime syndicates that were taken down by the police back then.

 

[Jay]

Yeah, we as a general community find it nearly impossible to get handguns unless we are registered shooters.

Which if you don't have a criminal record is not all that hard to do.

 

[mafia_boy]

Umm. Yeah. Counts me out Jay. Driving like a hoon and getting convicted with it at 18 has consequences. Not owning a gun is one of them.

No matter, I've never really liked them anyway apart from military weapons, then we're talking a whole different kettle of fish. Gatling gun anyone??

 

[Sureboss]

To protect your home with?

Yeh, I've got an 88 out back for my problematic burglars! I can whip out the Mortars too if needed.

 

[mafia_boy]

To protect your home with?

Yeh, I've got an 88 out back for my problematic burglars! I can whip out the Mortars too if needed.

What.....no howitzers?? That's a shame, you can take out a thief from 10 miles with that sucker.

 

[Jay]

Miss-read nevermind

 

[FoolKiller]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8168465.stm



Truly horrible events.

Yes, they are, and perfect examples of why we should outlaw children in the US. We obviously don't know how to handle them.

 

[Sureboss]

As that's clearly what I was getting at...

 

[mafia_boy]

Yes, they are, and perfect examples of why we should outlaw children in the US. We obviously don't know how to handle them.

Yet you guys breed like there's no tomorrow.

I heard an absolute corker of a saying while playing some Poker this week regarding the navy boys that visit up here. The difference between the Aussie sailors coming for visits and the American sailors coming for visits is that 9mths after the American's arrive, there's a baby boom in the town. It's like you guys are scared of contraception.

 

[LSX]

I'm very pro-gun, I vote un-restricted ownership.
Why restrict a law abiding citizen? Criminals will get whatever guns they want illegally anyways.

I am thankful that I can freely own and purchase firearms in my state, carry concealed, be able to defend myself or family should the need ever arise. I hope it never does, I'd much rather waste ammo on paper targets and clay pigeons.

The thing is a LEO is not always going to be there, that's where/when, if necessary, I can exercise my God given rights to defend myself.

I know some people don't think that way, that's fine too, but if your ever confronted with a gun fight, good luck with whatever you choose as a defensive weapon.

 

[Danoff]

Anyone had trouble buying ammunition lately? I just went to the store for the 3rd time yesterday trying to pick up 9mm ammo.They'd been out of stock the two times previously. This time when I arrived, they had so little in stock that I had to buy them out. This was 1 day after they got a delivery.

If you go online looking for ammo the story is much the same - website after website with the phrase "sold out". It seems there is a serious spike in demand. Perhaps it's because the government is toying with the idea of putting a large tax on gun and ammunition purchases. It seems the firearms are the next item to be targeted for a sin tax.

Only one problem, a sin tax on firearms or ammunition can easily be a violation of the 2nd amendment. If it costs $10,000 to buy a handgun (because of the government), do we still have a right to bear arms?

 

[ExigeEvan]

I have been hearing about the ammo shortage on all the American based forums I've been on. Seems it's been quite a problem for a few months now.

Maybe the government is hoping you all run out, it'd be easier for them to get all dictatorship on you right?

 

[Danoff]

I have been hearing about the ammo shortage on all the American based forums I've been on. Seems it's been quite a problem for a few months now.

Maybe the government is hoping you all run out, it'd be easier for them to get all dictatorship on you right?

I think it's less of a shortage and more of a spike in demand. People are buying up armfuls of ammo in anticipation of taxation or criminalization of guns and ammo. I just happened to run out in the middle of all of this.

I think it's most likely just paranoia and not likely to turn into anything. But our government is talking about levying a sin tax on firearms and ammunition - which would cause a string of 2nd amendment lawsuits. That combined with what Montana, Utah, and Texas are doing strongly suggests that we're in for a long battle over gun rights in the near future.

 

[Duke]

You can't get .22 rimfire anywhere, either.

 

[Sureboss]

rimfire? I'd rather not google that, what is it?

 

[Solid Lifters]

You can't get .22 rimfire anywhere, either.

I just purchased a .22 pellet rifle to save on ammo when dealing with the varmints. I should have did it years ago. I had .22 pellet rifle already, but for target shooting.

The ammo is out of stock due to the recent discussions of laws adding a 1,000% federal tax on ammunition, which seems to work for LA just fine. Also, the forced use of limited shelf-life primers. These primers will become defective after a certain amount of years (9-12) and would make the ammo useless (until it's broken down to its component parts and then reassembled with new primers).

Primers are the component in ammunition that takes the impact of the firing pin and causes the round's gun powder to ignite. Primers for reloaders, such as myself, are IMPOSSIBLE to find and have been for 8 months.

I have plenty to reload with, for now, but that can change quickly. I'm not doing any serious recreational shooting with pistol and rifle at the moment and for obvious reason.

 

[orimarc]

One of the most repeated quotes in this thread is:

Yeah, but the criminals can get the guns on the black market

I ask: Why are you so afraid of being robbed, raped, etc. that you need a gun?
Why don't you trust your local security forces?
Why not try to lower the number of criminals? Maybe that's the problem:
That there are so many wrong things in x (say, education, healthcare, economics, job deamnds, etc.) that people have to rob to survive. Maybe that's the problem.
Well, one part of it.