Guns

[emad]

Originally posted by Ghost C
So the shooting teams that compete in the Olympics are hurting people? The police who use them to disable criminals out to hurt you and me are hurting people? The hunter who uses them to catch the food that you buy from the supermarket is hurting people?

Your (lack of-) logic is astounding.

the gun was created originally for a single purpose - to kill people...it was developed out of wars and based off of cannons. but you are rite...the police should have them, the hunter has rifles (which are very difficult to hide - unless u saw them off)...handguns are just not safe imo. and the olympic atheletes also use specialised rifles which are too big to hide...

 

[Talentless]

I heard once that the inventor of the first gun is unknown.

A knife is hands down a more efficient killing weapon. Two words, slit throat.

 

[Talentless]

If guns weren't capable of killing, do you think most of us would want them available for defensive purposes?

 

[Danoff]

Holy crap! You guys are really at it.

Ok let me see if I can simplify things. Gun control laws will not keep guns out of the hands of criminals. They are already willing to break the law. Gun control laws will, however, keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens who would protect themselves.

I have the right to bear arms because I have the right to protect myself from criminals. I also have the right to protect myself from my government.

If children get killed by people with guns every year, that is still acceptable to maintain a free society. Milefile pointed out how gun control laws will not stop children from getting killed by guns. His point has not been refuted by anyone on this board.

Knives, Tazers and all kinds of good stuff like that are fine and dandy, but neither is equivalent to a gun. When faced with a criminal with a gun who tells you to put down the knife of Tazer, you don’t have many options. When you have a gun pointed at a criminal with a gun - I’ll bet good money the criminal is out of there… Why? Because he knows you’re a law abiding citizen and don’t want to shoot him.

The problem with guns is criminals, not the guns themselves. Don’t miss the point. If the only weapons that were legal were pillows, lots of people would be killed by pillows (and illegal weapons).

 

[Ghost C]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
I'd say a person has a greater chance of surviving one knife vs. 16 bullets in a mtter of 10 seconds.

You automatically assume every pistol in the world holds 16 rounds. This is not true. Police issued weapons do, civilian issue weapons do not. In fact, there are laws against them holding any more than 10 in the magazine, but I'm sure you'll come back with "BUT YOU CAN BUY HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES", this is true for a few Glocks, the Beretta 92, and a few other firearms, but it's also illegal.

No, you don't have a better chance of surviving a blade through your chest than being shot. A knife has more mass, and greater energy than a bullet, but again - You deal in if's and but's, not facts, so I would not expect you to understand this.

 

[Talentless]

I can't cite this exactly, but I saw a program where it was demonstrated that a knife stab can be more powerful than a bullet, I think a .38 or smaller.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by Ghost C
You automatically assume every pistol in the world holds 16 rounds. This is not true. Police issued weapons do, civilian issue weapons do not. In fact, there are laws against them holding any more than 10 in the magazine, but I'm sure you'll come back with "BUT YOU CAN BUY HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES", this is true for a few Glocks, the Beretta 92, and a few other firearms, but it's also illegal.

No, you don't have a better chance of surviving a blade through your chest than being shot. A knife has more mass, and greater energy than a bullet, but again - You deal in if's and but's, not facts, so I would not expect you to understand this.

Ok,... I'll take this 9mm with "6" in the clip and one in the chamber,... you take this knife,.. we'll take 10 paces and see who's standing at the end,... theres your "logic"

BTW,.. you better be a damn good aim,.... cause if it aint a PERFECT kill shot,.. I'll still take you out with the remaining bullets.

 

[Ghost C]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
Ok,... I'll take this 9mm with "6" in the clip and one in the chamber,... you take this knife,.. we'll take 10 paces and see who's standing at the end,... theres your "logic"

Ok, and since we're dealing with police vs criminal situations, we'll both wear a bullet proof vest, since cops wear bullet proof vests. I'll take your 6 shots to the chest, and you'll take a knife through your sternum.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by Ghost C
Ok, and since we're dealing with police vs criminal situations, we'll both wear a bullet proof vest, since cops wear bullet proof vests. I'll take your 6 shots to the chest, and you'll take a knife through your sternum.

dont change the subject,.. civilians dont get vests.

 

[Ghost C]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
dont change the subject,.. civilians dont get vests.

Civilians can buy bullet proof vests. If I wanted, and had $600, I could go buy one right now.

I wasn't changing the subject, either, you said that bullets would be more damaging to a police officer than a knife, I refuted, you made a challenge, I accepted, you clearly lost, you changed the subject.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by Ghost C

I wasn't changing the subject, either, you said that bullets would be more damaging to a police officer than a knife,

please quote the time I said anything about police.....

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Whats even funnier is that you guys are persistant on arguing with a MORON,....

 

[Ghost C]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
please quote the time I said anything about police.....

I said that a criminal with a knife is considered to be deadly by police at 25 feet, you said that a criminal with a knife is not as deadly as a criminal with a gun, we then proceeded to argue this point up until such time that you made your "challenge", and now you are trying to save face by saying that you weren't arguing that point.

 

[Ghost C]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
Whats even funnier is that you guys are persistant on arguing with a MORON,....

I'm glad you think so highly of yourself.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
please quote the time I said anything about police.....

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by Ghost C
I'm glad you think so highly of yourself.

I'm perfectly comfortable with my intellect,... as moronic as it may be.

 

[Ghost C]

I said that a criminal with a knife is considered to be deadly by police at 25 feet(Keyword: Police. Also see: at 25 feet.), you said that a criminal with a knife is not as deadly as a criminal with a gun

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
please quote the time I said anything about police.....

 

[Ghost C]

Arguing whether a criminal with a knife is deadlier than a criminal with a gun TO THE POLICE kind of implies that you are, in fact, talking about the police.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

if you say so... remember, I'm just the moron.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Though I'd love to stay and chat,.. I have a moronic life to live outside of the opinions forum,.. see ya'll tomorrow,....

 

[Red Eye Racer]

oh,.. before I go,... you may want to see what your peers have to think about this in the results for the poll.

better start creating accounts and voting before my opinion outweighs yours in the mass majority.

Looks as if my moronic opinion is winning 2-to-1..... aaaahhthankya.

 

[Talentless]

I'm not surprised by the results.

 

[emad]

hmm...what about rubber bullets? won't kill the idiots or their kids who wave them around in public, and they'd be more than sufficient as self defense. they won't kill unless u shoot the person in the head from very close range...or maybe a direct hit to the heart area from extremely close range...

nonetheless, handguns=evil...in the hands of idiots and believe me, the world is FULL of idiots. special training only means you will have an armed and TRAINED idiot...

i should edit that i'm still ok with the police carrying them, it's just civilians that shouldn't have them

 

[Ghost C]

Originally posted by emad
nonetheless, handguns=evil...in the hands of idiots and believe me, the world is FULL of idiots. special training only means you will have an armed and TRAINED idiot...

i should edit that i'm still ok with the police carrying them, it's just civilians that shouldn't have them

By your own logic, you're ok with trained idiots having guns, while at the same time not being ok with trained idiots having guns. Police are not born special from the rest of the world, they are people, the same as you and me, not robots.

The training for handguns that you recieve in WV for concealed permits is the same police recieve before they get their badge.

 

[emad]

if the police don't have guns, then there would be no way in dealing with criminals that have guns...right? that's my logic there. stupid or not, the police are *expected* to be smart. Besides, name the last time u met a stupid police officer? they're trained to use non-lethal force unless lethal force is necessary...right?

 

[Ghost C]

Originally posted by emad
if the police don't have guns, then there would be no way in dealing with criminals that have guns...right? that's my logic there. stupid or not, the police are *expected* to be smart. Besides, name the last time u met a stupid police officer? they're trained to use non-lethal force unless lethal force is necessary...right?

I've met plenty of stupid police officers, in fact, the better question would be "When's the last time you met a smart police officer?". This holds true for every department of every city I've ever lived in, which would be 6, in three different states. 99% of cops are idiots. Besides, if guns were banned, nobody would have them, right? So why would the cops need them? Oh, because criminals would still have guns, it's just be us law abiding citizens who needed to bend over and grab their ankles.

Cops are given almost zero training in hand-to-hand combat, they're basically trained in a few disarming moves, and a couple of holds to keep someone down so they can be disabled. There's a good chance that in a one-on-one fight, I could take a cop down, due to my fighting abilities being learned from an ex-SEAL.

 

[milefile]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
Though I'd love to stay and chat,.. I have a moronic life to live outside of the opinions forum,.. see ya'll tomorrow,....

Man you are so upset by that. Gee I'm sorry. If I'd known how personal you take it I'd only have called you an idiot.

But seriously, I should've said you comment was moronic, not that you are a moron. So I apologize for that.

But I gave you some facts in response to yours, which you were very proud of and adamant about, as if they settled the issue once and for all. I found your statistics and saw how you selectively picked and chose what would bolster your argument. When I adjusted your statistics to account for population, and presented a country with strict gun control and an astronomical gun murder rate, suggesting that maybe it's not guns that are the problem based on that one fact alone, you basically called it garbage (I can't be bothered to find the post and quote it). At least I took the effort to look into what you posted and offered something substantial to contradict you. All you did is reject facts outrightly, and then declare that you would no longer respond to any questioning about it. That's really weak and you know it. You set the rules and then discarded them when they blew up in your face.

I still think I would like to buy a handgun. I think they're cool. I also love the fact that I live in place where I can have one. I'll know my family and I have that protection, which comforts me, and I'd fully include my son in it. I'd teach him about it. I'd satisfy his curiosity by including him and taking him to the range and let him shoot. He would understand that it is not a toy, and what an important priviledge it is. I think it has the potential to teach a boy to be responsible, and I'd worry no more about it than him taking the car for the first time.

Whether it ever happens or not I don't know. But I can see why it would be good, and why people who want to ban guns are so very wrong. This is America, not Europe. We are founded on rebelion, independence, liberty and freedom; we left Europe for freedom. Now everybody forgets and gets fat and complacent and wants somebody to make them safe so they don't have to be responsible for themselves, even in the most serious matters (which are also the matters least suited to government patronage). We are becoming so anti-American toward ourselves and don't even see it. Liberal control is still control. Dig through a layer of abstraction and you'll find America turning into what it broke free of, and it's sad. Government control is controled by it's need to control, and that can't be allowed.

 

[jay wilkie]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer


I believe they should be prosecuted for attempted man-slaughter.

Was it not a form of self defense?

 

[frestkd]

Only The Power Hungry, and the Ignorant like Gun Control. Power hungry people like Hitler, Stalin, Bill Clinton, Charles Schumer, Diane Finstiene, Tony Blair, Saddam Hussain, and others throughout history like to control people. The only way to control people is to make the people think a central government will take care of them first. Then disarm the people so if the people get mad at the central government. The people can’t arm themselves and overthrow the central government. Next control the information of the people so the people can’t get ideas to overthrow the central government. Eventually the people will become sheep in the great heard of a one world government of the rich and power hungry, so lets start saying baah baah. Most people in the United States that if you are a convicted felon in the U.S. you can't vote, join the armed forces, and can't own, carry, posses any kind of firearm. If you are under the age of 18 you can not own a firearm, carry, posses a firearm unless you have permission and you're with your parent/guardian. (like hunting with your father). If you are under 21 you can not own, carry, posses a handgun. It is against the law to carry any firearms on federal property that's including public schools. If you are a convicted wife beater you can not own, carry and posses any firearm that's including police officers and arm forces personal. Thank you Bill Clinton for that law. In the great country of The United States you can own full automatic firearms for about $200 American Dollars. There is a catch you have to have no criminal record other than a speeding ticket. The BATF has the right to search and inspect the class 3 firearm at anytime at your home. You have to buy a proper storage device for that firearm ie A Firearm Safe. Sorry for being long winded, I hope this educates at least someone. Any questions? I know only federal firearm laws and Arizona State firearms laws. No I'm not a lawyer.

Kristof