Guns

[ExigeEvan]

Teach kids at a young age to respect firearms. A family that shoots together, stays together.

Probably not the best strap line after the Newtown shooting considering the history and the first victim.

 

[Ardius]

There are differences in how "violent crime" is defined and recorded.

For example:

"When the new counting rules were brought in, police had to record any incident where the person considered themselves to have been a victim of a violent crime, regardless of the outcome of proceedings. This meant crimes that may not previously have stood up to the police definition of a violent crime started to show up in the figures."

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/is-violent-crime-going-up-or-down/494

I don't know the specifics of how violent crime is recorded in the US compared to the UK but a very short video comparing the raw data isn't as conclusive as he suggests. There are a number of variables (as always with statistics) to consider.
How data is recorded, what defines "violent crime" and parallels with any changes in laws or other influences on the figures (e.g. wars, strikes, riots, etc), etc.

I'd prefer to see/read a more detailed and thorough look into the stats.

 

[David]

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[MarcoM]

Probably not the best strap line after the Newtown shooting considering the history and the first victim.

👍

sharp reaction.

I gave up on debating about certain topics here, but I was quite amused (positive way) by this comment.

 

[Pako]

Well, that is something that they have to deal with. My best friend got launched from his truck and sustained fatal head injuries from a rock he hit. Bad stuff happens to good people, but legislation won't bring my friend back and it wasn't the rocks fault even though it was the instrument of his death.

Edit: I will go on further to say that "Adam" probably never had regular outings with his family to shooting ranges, afternoon gofer hunts, or outdoor target practice. Maybe if they did, he would have had a healthy understanding and respect for guns instead of thinking of them as a tool for ending life. To be honest, it's impossible to guess what he was thinking.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Well, that is something that they have to deal with. My best friend got launched from his truck and sustained fatal head injuries from a rock he hit. Bad stuff happens to good people, but legislation won't bring my friend back and it wasn't the rocks fault even though it was the instrument of his death.

Edit: I will go on further to say that "Adam" probably never had regular outings with his family to shooting ranges, afternoon gofer hunts, or outdoor target practice. Maybe if they did, he would have had a healthy understanding and respect for guns instead of thinking of them as a tool for ending life. To be honest, it's impossible to guess what he was thinking.

I'm not disagreeing with what you said in general terms, I think a familiarity with guns will certainly prevent children using them as toys, in moments of anger or accidentally and would have loved to have gone shooting with my dad at some point. (We were considering having an air rifle range in the loft as we have a fairly long house, but that's was vetoed by my mum. We do plan a holiday including a visit to a gun range in the US for his 60th Bday)

It's just in relation to more recent events it doesn't hold much water.

 

[Pako]

I'm not disagreeing with what you said in general terms, I think a familiarity with guns will certainly prevent children using them as toys, in moments of anger or accidentally and would have loved to have gone shooting with my dad at some point. (We were considering having an air rifle range in the loft as we have a fairly long house, but that's was vetoed by my mum. We do plan a holiday including a visit to a gun range in the US for his 60th Bday)

It's just in relation to more recent events it doesn't hold much water.

👍 I hear what you're saying.

 

[MisterEads]

They won't take mine.

Bought my first gun a few months ago.

Mossberg .22 assault rifle

Ar15 style

 

[arora]

We don't know very much about that family, at least i don't. I know the dad left when the boy was 18, I know his mother owned some guns and did something or other at a school. I also know she wanted to put him in a mental institution.

Hardly the image Pako was speaking of. I see the point of pc and all but I don't think he was being rude or inconsiderate, his post made sense to me.

 

[FoolKiller]

A couple of interesting articles related to the gun control debate have recently come out.

First, remember the newspaper that published names and addresses of all gun owners in their area? Well, it now looks like there might be a home robbery case where the thieves were using that information.

http://newyork.newsday.com/news/nat...urglars-to-target-white-plains-home-1.4441678

A White Plains residence pinpointed on a controversial handgun permit database was burglarized Saturday, and the burglars' target was the homeowner's gun safe.

At least two burglars broke into a home on Davis Avenue at 9:30 p.m. Saturday but were unsuccessful in an attempt to open the safe, which contained legally owned weapons, according to a law enforcement source. One suspect was taken into custody, the source said.

The gun owner was not home when the burglary occurred, the source said. The victim, who is in his 70s, told Newsday on Sunday that he did not want to comment while the police investigation continues.

"The police are doing a full investigation," the man said through a partially opened front door.

There was broken glass in the backyard Sunday and a ladder leading up to a second-story window. Neighbors on the street of modest, Colonial homes said they had heard about the burglary.

The homeowner's name and address were included recently on the controversial interactive map of gun permit holders in Westchester and Rockland counties published on The Journal News' website.

Neighbor John Mascia said he thought the gun permit database should not have been published.

"I could [not] care less what they have in their home," Mascia said.

Police are investigating what role, if any, the database played in the burglars' decision to target the home, the law enforcement source said.

White Plains police Lt. Eric Fischer confirmed that a burglary occurred but would not release further information Sunday.

The Journal News has been the target of sharp criticism from gun rights advocates and some media ethicists since running the story and interactive map Dec. 23. The story was published 10 days after the Newtown, Conn., mass shooting that claimed the lives of 20 young children and seven adults.
A call for comment to The Journal News was not immediately returned.

Although some good-government groups have come to the defense of the White Plains-based newspaper, some elected officials, including State Sen. Greg Ball (R-Patterson, have complained the permit map could aid criminals.

"If the connection is proven, this is further proof that these maps are not only an invasion of privacy but that they present a clear and present danger to law-abiding, private citizens," Ball said Sunday in a statement.

On Monday, Ball will introduce a third bill into the state Legislature intended to keep the names of those who have gun permits private.

Personally, I hope the burglars were using the database and the newspaper gets sued.

And New York Democrat Senator Chuck Schumer is asking gun dealers to stop selling weapons until Congress votes on legislation.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013...-retailers-to-stop-sales-as-congress-debates/

NEW YORK — Sen. Charles Schumer says retailers that sell assault weapons should stop offering them for purchase while Congress discusses gun regulation legislation.

Schumer on Sunday released a letter he sent to major retailers asking for a voluntary moratorium.

The New York Democrat says consumer demand for guns has gone up in the weeks since the December mass shooting in Newtown, Conn.

Schumer says Congress is debating the issue, and if measures get passed that limit these type of weapons, it won’t help if more of them have recently been sold.

I think that's the point. They know if they buy them now you can't stop them.

And maybe, just maybe, Senator, you should see this as your constituents, whom you are supposed to represent, voicing their opinion.

 

[Keef]

Here's an interesting story of guys just walkin' around with guns like they're allowed to and people being intolerant of that behavior.

 

[Crash]

First, remember the newspaper that published names and addresses of all gun owners in their area? Well, it now looks like there might be a home robbery case where the thieves were using that information.

Personally, I hope the burglars were using the database and the newspaper gets sued.

It was only a matter of time. In a way, I'm surprised it took this long for a burglar to take advantage of this information.

I agree with you though, that newspaper should be sued. Only thing is you know they are going to claim First Amendment rights to publish that information. I don't know if that would hold any water or not in court.

On the other hand, specific information about individual gun ownership should be made private if it wasn't already.

--

There are now almost daily news articles on the status of proposed gun control legislation. It seems like Biden has already made his presentation to Obama, and Obama is set on using Executive Orders to tighten gun control. Meanwhile, New York is already on its way to passing some sort of Assault Weapons Ban.

 

[hogger129]

It was only a matter of time. In a way, I'm surprised it took this long for a burglar to take advantage of this information.

I agree with you though, that newspaper should be sued. Only thing is you know they are going to claim First Amendment rights to publish that information. I don't know if that would hold any water or not in court.

On the other hand, specific information about individual gun ownership should be made private if it wasn't already.

--

There are now almost daily news articles on the status of proposed gun control legislation. It seems like Biden has already made his presentation to Obama, and Obama is set on using Executive Orders to tighten gun control. Meanwhile, New York is already on its way to passing some sort of Assault Weapons Ban.

A newspaper is protected by the First Amendment, however, that doesn't mean they can publish information which aids and abets a criminal operation. There are certain limitations to what they can publish. I do hope this publication gets sued because the information they published gave a criminal a road map to this individual's home. I would also like to see them prosecute whichever state agency released the information to this newspaper also. It's private information, no different than if they would have released everybody's social security numbers or medical information.

Yes, apparently Biden has prepared recommendations for 19 executive orders. I haven't heard exactly what they are yet, just leaks from various places. The reason he is using an executive action is because they know they are unlikely to get an assault weapon ban, or similar laws, through Congress. Especially not with a Republican House. So they're going to make it "By Decree of the King..."

I thought New York already had an Assault Weapons Ban? I thought several states kept their own versions after the Federal Assault Weapon Ban expired in September 2004.

 

[FoolKiller]

If Obama uses executive powers for this it will mean the president is unilaterally regulating a Constitutinally guaranteed right, possibly in opposition to Supreme Court rulings.

It will tie them up in legal fights to the point that his entire second term will be defined by it.

 

[Keef]

This is how you stop crime in America. You flood the airwaves with stories of criminals getting shot and killed by their victims for threatening their lives or invading their property or restricting their liberty until they have no choice but to go through them. The message this sends to criminals is that if you hurt me or my stuff unjustifiably I'm going to kill you, so unless you want to get shot at you'd better think twice about doing bad things.

Think about it this way: If you know every single person in a room has a gun are you going to try and start crap with any of them? No. Nobody in that room has to be friends but they will either be polite to each other.

 

[David]

.

 

[Quackjack36]

I have moved from supporting moderate control to strict control.

I am sure the founding fathers would disapprove of people owning so many assault weapons. Is it really needed for everyone and their brother to own an Ak-47?

 

[David]

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[Nicksfix]

If Obama uses executive powers for this it will mean the president is unilaterally regulating a Constitutinally guaranteed right, possibly in opposition to Supreme Court rulings.

It will tie them up in legal fights to the point that his entire second term will be defined by it.

To add to that, Texas Representative Steve Stockman has threatened to start proceedings against Obama (should he choose to act in executive fashion).

“The White House’s recent announcement they will use executive orders and executive actions to infringe on our constitutionally-protected right to keep and bear arms is an unconstitutional and unconscionable attack on the very founding principles of this republic,” Stockman said in a statement. “I will seek to thwart this action by any means necessary, including but not limited to eliminating funding for implementation, defunding the White House, and even filing articles of impeachment.”

This could get real touchy.

Full article

Another related article

 

[Crash]

If Obama uses executive powers for this it will mean the president is unilaterally regulating a Constitutinally guaranteed right, possibly in opposition to Supreme Court rulings.

It will tie them up in legal fights to the point that his entire second term will be defined by it.

Depends on what these Executive Orders are on. It seems like they know and realize that they can't do much to order an AWB. Now it seems a lot of these orders will be on (better) enforcing current gun laws.

I do agree, however, that if Obama tries to legislate through Executive Orders, that would be further contravening on the Constitution.

I am sure the founding fathers would disapprove of people owning so many assault weapons. Is it really needed for everyone and their brother to own an Ak-47?

You're free to not own an AK-47 if you don't want to, that is your choice. However, why should you prevent me from owning one if I want one? I am a law-abiding American citizen.

Just like I should have no right to prevent you from owning a knife or a car (or any other object) just because I don't think it's necessary or like it.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

I have moved from supporting moderate control to strict control.

I am sure the founding fathers would disapprove of people owning so many assault weapons. Is it really needed for everyone and their brother to own an Ak-47?

How do you expect to defend your freedom?

I am sure the founding fathers would disapprove of the reach and size of the current federal government.

The Obama Administration's ridiculous, bluff threats show just how important the Second Amendment is; "The President alone is going to take away your Constitutional right to arms without the consent of the people or their representatives...."

F Obama.

Funny how well weapons manufacturers are doing... sold something like 3 years of inventory in 72 hours after Sandy...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Who the hell do some of these senators think they are? That's one of the most ridiculous things I think I've read in all of this lately. Trying to pressure people to self-regulate ahead of a congressional decision, meanwhile ignoring indicators of the true will of many people in his state?

Next time they are about to vote on something to do with free speech, maybe they should send out letters to everyone ahead of time asking people to not voice any opinions until congress votes on it. It might get banned afterall and then you might feel bad about having exercised your rights while you were entitled to them.

He might get some of the large retailers (Walmart, Dicks, etc..) to go along with this, if they haven't already stopped selling some of these things, but anyone who has been in a local gun shop knows better than to think any of them are going to stop selling anything just because some whiny senator said so.

The term "representative" lost all meaning in this government a long time ago.

Politicians on both sides don't live in the real world. Only a complete 🤬 would tell an entire sector of the retail economy (and by extension manufacturers and suppliers) to shut down until they decide what to do. You can't take people like that seriously, but of course, you have to because they are running your country.

 

[hogger129]

I doubt any of these proposals will pass through Congress. The House won't let it. They'll defund his executive actions, too, I believe.

I mean they keep saying "oh something has to get done." Why is the answer to restrict the rights of law abiding people?

I agree with having universal background checks, but taking away so-called 'assault' weapons and limiting magazine sizes is not going to stop criminals.

A lot of states are already passing their own laws declaring this a state rights issue saying they won't enforce these gun laws the gun nuts want.

I would like to see Wisconsin pass something like this too. We are a REPUBLIC, not a democracy or a dictatorship and our rights don't come from the government, they come from our Creator and government is there to protect our rights.

What they're talking about banning are weapons used in a VERY SMALL percentage of all crimes. They are not M16s. Those who say they are have never held one or fired one.

You should not have to obey unconstitutional laws that infringe on our rights.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think this is going to be a real firestorm, the kind you haven't seen there since the 60's. It's one thing to force people to accept gay marriage, socialized medicine, higher taxes on the rich, for the most part those are things that don't affect you inside the home other than in the pocketbook here and there. But taking away even some gun rights to an American would be like telling Canadians you can play hockey but you can't play on skates anymore. There would be riots in the streets!!!

 

[Omnis]

If you read all of Obama's executive orders in the voice of Penultimo from Tropico 4, you realize how meaningless and ridiculous they are.

 

[David]

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[counter345]

If you read all of Obama's executive orders in the voice of Penultimo from Tropico 4, you realize how meaningless and ridiculous they are.

Can I have a link? I can't seem to find it anywhere, but what I've heard is that they are going to ban assault rifles.

 

[David]

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[Pako]

These laws are meaningless to criminals or mentally insane. If I remember correctly, it is against the law to murder someone yet people are murdered every day.

Will more laws bring any loved ones back? Absolutely not.
Will more laws keep criminals from doing crime? That's absurd to think so.

There is a major lack of accountability in our nation today. That lack of accountability makes these laws meaningless to those who have no respect for themselves or the lives of others.

 

[Omnis]

Can I have a link? I can't seem to find it anywhere, but what I've heard is that they are going to ban assault rifles.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/01/16/read-full-list-of-23-gun-violence-reduction-executive-actions/