Hacked car reverted

[Lock2Lock]

I have a question for you, here's the scenario;

You, with an avid knowledge of modding and tuning (judging by your posts), has a car modded outside the games parameters.

Joe blow, with a avid knowledge of GT5 drift tuning (exact driving skill level as you), has a car only tuned in GT5.

Both are using the same model of car.

Who will be on top in a comp/tandem? I'm guessing Joe blow will be left in the dust as there's no way he'd be able to keep up with the angle you'd have.

You see, there's two sides to every coin my friend!

It isn't always about keeping up with the angle. You know very well that in a properly judged competition should be judged accordingly. Remember that 1966 Shelby Cobra I used to drift before hybriding? Well it falls underneath that same scenario.

Also one assumption you still have about the steering modification is that just because someone has a certain added amount of steering angle automatically means that said person is going to just try to out due the the follower in angle to the point of them not being able to follow, which is completely false.

Most of the people that use it that I know use it to gain a better feelung of the car and don't even touch full lock. Depending on how far you actually go with the steering modification can create a advanced feeling of the cars body and suspension movement. Which if I remember correctly, is the same reason Dom uses it.

Here's a little fun fact.
You know how both of us drift on G27 steering wheels right? If you really want to get technical about steering angle period, you might as well call anyone who drifts on a Thrustmaster a cheater too. Reason I say this is because me and you have 900 degrees of rotation on our wheels right? Well on a Thrustmaster you get 1080 degrees of steering rotation. So as a result they would fall in that same scenario you mentioned before right.

That's what I am trying to explain to you. Most of us who use this modification are using it not to gain a advantage, but only correcting what PD did wrong.

 

[Bluntified]

But this would need both drivers to have the exact same skill level and tuning capabilities, and a competitive environment. Like we said before, competitions are not the sole reason for drifting existence. Drifting was 'discovered' and enjoyed long before there were drifting competitions.

In my scenario I tried to imply that both drivers have exact driving skill/tuning skill, the only difference is that one car is modded with outside mods and one is within the game.

I agree that competition isn't the sole reason for drifting, but I do feel that is what drifting leads to.

@Lock2Lock

You completely missed my point. I'm not talking about the average drifter, I'm talking about YOU or anyone else in that tier of drifting. So YOU would have the advantage because YOU know how to use it to your advantage.

As per the part about wheel steering rotation, that's not correct. A wheel that has 180 degrees of rotation has the same steering angle as someone that uses 1080 degrees. The only way to go past that steering angle is to mod!

Also, you can say "all we're doing is fixing what PD did wrong", all you want, my statement is still stands true.

All in all, I'm not here to judge people that mod, I don't care about it like that.

 

[Lock2Lock]

@Lock2Lock

You completely missed my point. I'm not talking about the average drifter, I'm talking about YOU or anyone else in that tier of drifting. So YOU would have the advantage because YOU know how to use it to your advantage.

As per the part about wheel steering rotation, that's not correct. A wheel that has 180 degrees of rotation has the same steering angle as someone that uses 1080 degrees. The only way to go past that steering angle is to mod!

Also, you can say "all we're doing is fixing what PD did wrong", all you want, my statement is still stands true.

All in all, I'm not here to judge people that mod, I don't care about it like that.

Sure I get your point about "being able to use it to a advantage", but at the same time I never would. Anyone who does use it to gain a advantage isn't drifting in any formal rules so they should be disqualified simple as that. That's what my pount was about a properly judged competition. Which is part of the reason I don't compete that much anymore, if competitions were judged correctly I would compete.

Not everything is used to gain a advantage that's the part I am trying to get through to you about. Not everyone who uses this is trying to pull massive angle and screw the follower over. To be honest the number I last used you couldn't even notice it. It was making the car feel like how every car comes from the factory in real life. I don't even use it anymore to tell you the truth, but I will defend it because I was the one who spent two to three weeks testing it before anyone else had it.
The modification itself is no different to what every form of real life competitions allow. Not all drivers use "steering knuckles" but most do.


Actually the Thrustmaster does have a advantage over any other 900 degree wheel. Ask FastFox he will even tell you. We actually tested this with him. He put what we had to replicate the 1080 degrees of rotation and to him it was almost at "wisefab" territory. This happens because he has that 1080 degrees of rotation anyway. He has more steering angle anyway.

 

[Bluntified]

@Lock2Lock

Unless someone can confirm this or you with pictures, its hard to believe that the Thrustmaster would have more steering angle. How is that we have the same angle as a 180 degree wheel?

I know it has more rotation but angle too?

I'm not doubting you wholeheartly, I'm just a little skeptical and reserve judgment until the evidence is out.

I also think we can agree that anyone can do anything they like behind closed doors.

EDIT: I did some snooping around the Sim Racing Hardware section and found this (along with other useful facts from Thrustmaster users.

You forgot the fact, that GT5 adjusts the degrees of rotation according to the car you use. So when you use a F1 car in GT5, the degrees of rotation are different to a touring car for example. It is not always locked to the 1080 degrees with the T500. Actually AFAIK GT5 uses a maximum of 900 degrees, even with the T500.

And at least my street car has 1080 degrees of rotation lock to lock.

The other arguments are matter of personal preference. T500 has different/stronger FFB than the DFGT and also better pedals. If it is worth the extra cost is of course matter of personal taste.

For me it is worth it. There are a lot of technical differences between DFGT and T500 starting with gear-driven versus belt-driven etc.

Quoted from here.

So it kinda looks like they have the same amount of angle, judging by users.

 

[Lock2Lock]

@Lock2Lock

Unless someone can confirm this or you with pictures, its hard to believe that the Thrustmaster would have more steering angle. How is that we have the same angle as a 180 degree wheel?

I know it has more rotation but angle too?

I'm not doubting you wholeheartly, I'm just a little skeptical and reserve judgment until the evidence is out.

The reason you have the same angle on a 180 degree wheel is because of the setting you used and also depending on the 180 degree wheel would make the game not recognize it correctly.

I understand you being skeptical man but when I told RSM about the modification (at that time it had been narrowed down to a realistic adjustments) then fastfox got his Thrustmaster, I had him try a couple different settings because he wanted to give it a shot. When he tried it it at the setting I have been talking about, to him it felt and looked like the Toyo Tires 180SX from D1GP. Which for people with a wheel like you and I have it would have to be higher to get that amount.

Ok to get a better picture of what's happening look at it like this.
G27 has 900 degrees of rotation. Or looking at a analog clock from 12 would be a hour and fifteen minutes to the left and right.

Thrustmaster has 1080 degrees of rotation. Or looking at analog clock from 12 would be a hour and thirty minutes to the left and right.

Because of the added degres of rotation and the way the game recognizes it you have a extra ten to fifteen minutes of rotation onto what it he already had. Which yes that's the same affect that we would get but we wouldn't have the double amount that he receives from it.

 

[Rallywagon]

I just want this to be clear, cause I'm right on your level blunt.
So, because the T500 has an extra 180° of rotation, that it translates into extra steering angle in the game? I too find this doubtful. It just takes an extra half turn to get to lock. The lock itself doesnt change.

 

[Bluntified]

I just want this to be clear, cause I'm right on your level blunt.
So, because the T500 has an extra 180° of rotation, that it translates into extra steering angle in the game? I too find this doubtful. It just takes an extra half turn to get to lock. The lock itself doesnt change.

He's confusing steering rotation with steering angle but then talks down to me like I'm the one not getting it . I think I'm about done here.

 

[CheladaJr]

Just a simple warning to the people that use hacked cars online regularly:

These cars will revert back to original state. If you want to keep them the way they are, do NOT use them online.

Any clue on when or how we will be able to use these cars again?

Excuse me? You of all people. The biggest non mod person in the world. Now want mods back. Probably just for the steering glitch. You guys need to get used to the regular drifting again. You don't need that crap.

 

[Isho]

Excuse me? You of all people. The biggest non mod person in the world. Now want mods back. Probably just for the steering glitch. You guys need to get used to the regular drifting again. You don't need that crap.

What are you talking about? The steering angle is still there. Seems to me that you havent been playing this game for a while. Stop being close minded and read why people like dom and me use it and dont actually need it. *facepalm*

 

[CheladaJr]

What are you talking about? The steering angle is still there. Seems to me that you havent been playing this game for a while. Stop being close minded and read why people like dom and me use it and dont actually need it. *facepalm*

Explain why you "need" it please? I don't think any of us NEEDED it in 2011 or early 2012, I I do still play sir so unless you do and are on my Friends list dont comment telling me what I do and don't play.

 

[Bluntified]

Explain why you "need" it please? I don't think any of us NEEDED it in 2011 or early 2012, I I do still play sir so unless you do and are on my Friends list dont comment telling me what I do and don't play.

Apparently it makes it "more realistic". There's no point arguing, once someone has something in their head its hard to change it.

 

[CheladaJr]

Apparently it makes it "more realistic". There's no point arguing, once someone has something in their head its hard to change it.

Not changing. Just stating opinion and fact. If you can't drift without lock on a game that doesn't require it. You can't drift. That simple, your a cheater, and your a disgrace to GT5.

 

[Isho]

Explain why you "need" it please? I don't think any of us NEEDED it in 2011 or early 2012, I I do still play sir so unless you do and are on my Friends list dont comment telling me what I do and don't play.

I guess reading a simple sentence is quite difficult. Like i said, i dont need it. Its just something to extend my drifting abilities. its near the end of gt5s life cycle. The game is getting boring so there isnt alot to do.

 

[CheladaJr]

I guess reading a simple sentence is quite difficult. Like i said, i dont need it. Its just something to extend my drifting abilities. its near the end of gt5s life cycle. The game is getting boring so there isnt alot to do.

Simple. Don't play it. I'd rather you not play it then to say you "need it" I've been playing GT5 for 3 years maybe more, and it was never boring. It just got boring when you could n't mod cars and stuff. If we never started modding. you ever think we would have ever gotten bored with regular drift machines?

 

[Lock2Lock]

@Bluntified

Actually I am not confused at all. I know the difference between degrees and actual steering angle on the car.

Also do not place a tone in my posts. I was not and never was talking down to you. You have a concern about my tone and how I am saying something, ask, do not assume. You should know me better than that by now to do so.

 

[Bluntified]

@Lock2Lock

Sorry, I must have misread. It was just the part about you told me to look at the steering wheel like a clock . I drive on a daily basis, I know how a steering wheel works. I also know about steering ratios, which GT5 corrects depending on the wheel.

I said you must have been confused because you expressed your clock analogy and tried to explain steering angle using it? They don't co-relate in the game, all wheels have the same amount of steering angle - I'm not talking about rotation here. A 180 degree wheel has the same steering angle as a 1080 degree wheel! However, DS3/controller users don't have the full angle.

Have you tried the steering lock codes to switch the G27 from 900 to 180 degrees, lock to lock? The tires still have the same angle!

I cannot explain this any clearer than I have.

 

[Isho]

Simple. Don't play it. I'd rather you not play it then to say you "need it" I've been playing GT5 for 3 years maybe more, and it was never boring. It just got boring when you could n't mod cars and stuff. If we never started modding. you ever think we would have ever gotten bored with regular drift machines?

That was not even my point. Theres already a simple explanation above of why most of us use it which based upon your previous comment you didnt even know about.

 

[CheladaJr]

That was not even my point. Theres already a simple explanation above of why most of us use it which based upon your previous comment you didnt even know about.

Ok dude.

 

[Lock2Lock]

All good man. I just don't like anyone assuming based on a misread tone. Just ask next time.

Anyway, the way I was describing it with the clock metaphor was to help you see what I was talking about. I guess that didn't help. I guess I'll just have to get online with you and fastfox to show you tomorrow or something.

Explain why you "need" it please? I don't think any of us NEEDED it in 2011 or early 2012, I I do still play sir so unless you do and are on my Friends list dont comment telling me what I do and don't play.

No one really needs it. I can live without it actually and I don't even use it anymore. Only thing I ever used it for was to test it and see all of the PROs and CONs of it. Re-creating the Toyo Tires 240sx was one of those reasons. I never used it in a competition and plan on never doing so (even with the fact that it doesn't always help a person).

 

[Racin510s]

Because not only would it be acknowledging hybrids, it'd be accepting of them - considering their creation goes against Sony's wishes, it'd be an incredibly stupid move for PD to do something like that (essentially saying save hacking is okay).

I guess I sort of understand, no not really. It was okay the have hybrids in GT1-GT4 but because of the online racing it was not okay. The code for GT1-GT4 was hacked and we had apps that didn't require being able to hex edit and PD knew about it. It was solely based on the online presence that hybrids were not OK. This doesn't make any kind of sense to me when it would have been just as easy to filter the online participation than to kill the hybrids since it was idiots & cheaters who used their hybrids on line. The TTs have been car chosen by PD for a long time now. So I have to guess that it was the lobby people who complained the loudest about people using hybrids. So for 12 odd years it was OK to hybrids and now for the last year and the last few months of GT5 it's not. I do know that had PD been listening to the fans we would have been able to do this legally with GT5. It is clear to me from GT1 onwards that PD had done what PD wanted to do and not what the masses cried out for. I have pre-ordered an incomplete an incomplete game and I'm well aware of that fact. I am more curious to see exactly what customization PD is going to give us with GT6. I am certainly not holding my breath.

I am looking forward to the end of life of GT5 so I can go back to building hybrids. I am allso looking forward to the incomplete course builder and the incomplete engine sounds. On a bright note I am looking forward to the new suspension set up machine. I have been to the website and have seen how it works so it will be interesting to see how well PD comes close to the real thing. There will be lots of updates and patches to follow so only time will tell if PD even comes close to what the masses have asked for this time. I certainly am not going to do GT6 Facebook. LOL

 

[Downhill Dino]

It was never "ok" to hybrid the GT games. PD just couldn't do anything about it since they couldn't patch the previous games like they could now.

 

[Gonales]

Excuse me? You of all people. The biggest non mod person in the world. Now want mods back. Probably just for the steering glitch. You guys need to get used to the regular drifting again. You don't need that crap.

Me of all people? I'm in favor of modding, IF done realistically. My current 350Z, 270R, S14 and S13 all still have angle modifications. Why? Because I love the way if feels. The countersteering is way more gradual. Without it, you will always be drifting within 90 degrees of full lock, whereas with the lock modifications, the car handles less extreme.

Not changing. Just stating opinion and fact. If you can't drift without lock on a game that doesn't require it. You can't drift. That simple, your a cheater, and your a disgrace to GT5.

I'm going to say this to you and every other skeptic out there: 95% of the good drifters before the modding will be able to drop the steering mods within 30 minutes. Give one of us 30 minutes practice without, and we will be tandeming again.

Nobody NEEDS the angle lock to drift, simply because drifting with and without is the same when it comes to basic logic... It just changes the amount of steering needed. Somebody that can't drift with the angle mods can't drift without...

 

[MadFlavour]

Me of all people? I'm in favor of modding, IF done realistically. My current 350Z, 270R, S14 and S13 all still have angle modifications. Why? Because I love the way if feels. The countersteering is way more gradual. Without it, you will always be drifting within 90 degrees of full lock, whereas with the lock modifications, the car handles less extreme.



I'm going to say this to you and every other skeptic out there: 95% of the good drifters before the modding will be able to drop the steering mods within 30 minutes. Give one of us 30 minutes practice without, and we will be tandeming again.

Nobody NEEDS the angle lock to drift, simply because drifting with and without is the same when it comes to basic logic... It just changes the amount of steering needed. Somebody that can't drift with the angle mods can't drift without...

The bit in bold, not true in the slightest. Seen it for myself. Bluntified is making a valid argument but some of you just seem to be trying to dodge his points.

You keep saying over and over that you do not need it at all, so why do you use it then? Surely their must be a reason to use it.

 

[Isho]

The bit in bold, not true in the slightest. Seen it for myself. Bluntified is making a valid argument but some of you just seem to be trying to dodge his points.

You keep saying over and over that you do not need it at all, so why do you use it then? Surely their must be a reason to use it.

Apparently "Because I love the way it feels" is not a valid reason to use it?

 

[CheladaJr]

The bit in bold, not true in the slightest. Seen it for myself. Bluntified is making a valid argument but some of you just seem to be trying to dodge his points.

You keep saying over and over that you do not need it at all, so why do you use it then? Surely their must be a reason to use it.

This guy gets it. Answer that and maybe i'll understand. Lock2Lock will also be getting together iwth me to explain this. I hope I understand.

 

[Rallywagon]

The reason to use it is easy, because it is actually done in drifting, and because suspension settings in gt5 are cookie cutter at best. the reason not to use it is just as easy, PD has licenses to protect and agreementa to back.
For the most part, this is really a stupid fight. Who cares? PD will not anytime soon be allowing modding. And modders will continue trying to mod. No sense fighting over it.

 

[CheladaJr]

The reason to use it is easy, because it is actually done in drifting, and because suspension settings in gt5 are cookie cutter at best. the reason not to use it is just as easy, PD has licenses to protect and agreementa to back.
For the most part, this is really a stupid fight. Who cares? PD will not anytime soon be allowing modding. And modders will continue trying to mod. No sense fighting over it.

True Michiganer, but why keep trying it? Just wait until GT6 comes out to do all that modding on GT5?

 

[Lock2Lock]

The bit in bold, not true in the slightest. Seen it for myself. Bluntified is making a valid argument but some of you just seem to be trying to dodge his points.

You keep saying over and over that you do not need it at all, so why do you use it then? Surely their must be a reason to use it.

Actually Dom has answered that question ummm about five times now. You refuse to either read or just plain listen.

Dom said in that same post that you quoted that she uses it because it has a more realistic feel. It replicates the feeling of how the car should feel. I don't understand how she could have made her point anymore clearer.

For the last time. No one needs it. I can and still am not using it. If you think I am one of those people who use hacks because I can't drift, get a steering wheel then come see me in a comp.

I am quite frankly tired of the misuse of the word "cheater" that a lot of you are using. Not everyone cares about competitions. Not what drifting is about.

 

[CheladaJr]

Actually Dom has answered that question ummm about five times now. You refuse to either read or just plain listen.

Dom said in that same post that you quoted that she uses it because it has a more realistic feel. It replicates the feeling of how the car should feel. I don't understand how she could have made her point anymore clearer.

For the last time. No one needs it. I can and still am not using it. If you think I am one of those people who use hacks because I can't drift, get a steering wheel then come see me in a comp.

I am quite frankly tired of the misuse of the word "cheater" that a lot of you are using. Not everyone cares about competitions. Not what drifting is about.

Not trying to be rude Lock because im cool with you, but could we call it "GT5 misuse of vehicles"? then?

 

[Drift_Monkey]

I'm fairly certain than a thrustmaster doesn't get more lock than a g27. All controller inputs in the game can only achieve a fixed maximum lock unless it's modded.