Read my edit.
Has Forza 3 suppressed you appetite for GT5?
- Thread starter hugo24
- 539 comments
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Read my edit.
- 477
Yeah nice avatar "que? xbox? no ty?" I'm not talking to a fanboy at all. No really.
You're from Australia. I'll invite you to my house to see my 2 RROD'd 360's to show you why I hate the xbox now
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- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Yeah, I was actually trying to make that a reverse psychobabbleology complement for Killzone, which I think is quite an achievement, on a Halo scale. The one gripe I have about Killzone is that your team seemed to be stuck with tards. And because of that, I'm stuck on a certain level.
Oh dear God.
You can rest easy, SS, and praise Saint Dan for producing a definitive achievement which seems to be selling pretty well. Heck, you could even say I'm a traitor to Archangel Kazunori because I bought a copy too.
Although... those shiny roads, that can't be too realistic... can it?
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- RaLpH89 / GTP_RaLpH89
All I can say about all comments above is.. No one can control fanboyism even themselves if they are a hard core fan or a regular fan of what they like. Just ask both hard core PS3 and Xbox 360 fanboys at Youtube, and they'll just give you angry comments and say, "Your wrong! I'm right!". GeneralMLD is a big example.
Just ask both hard core PS3 and Xbox 360 fanboys at Youtube, and they'll just give you angry comments and say, "Your wrong! I'm right!". GeneralMLD is a big example.
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- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
I'll have to say for such a Turn 10 acolyte, Simple SIM doesn't seem to have much to say over in the Forza section. Hmm... suspicious??
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- cowabungacorey
Bottom line, the game is fun, but half assed. It was as fun as FM2 and GT5 will be above and beyond what is expected of them. Pushing the date back further shows they aren't going to push this one out the door just to one up the competition
TokyoDrift
(Banned)
- 1,800
Well, I still wouldn't say that Metacritic is fairly worthless - if you take a big collection of reviews and wind up at a final average score of 95%, that is statistically significant even if you take into account the odd few "rogue" entries. I'm not saying a 95% average automatically makes a game "rank up there with the best" or "make it better than one that scored just 90%", but it does show that for the majority of people, it provided a rewarding gaming experience. For any given game, how a score matches to your own expectations and requirements is only for you to decide.Yes, reviews are pretty pointless because they end up dissatisfying large groups of people on all sides. Now that we've resolved that Metacritic is fairly worthless, let's move on.I will say that if GT5 gets rave reviews, what it will mean to me more than anything is that finally the strange world of game journalists will have finally come to their senses. I still expect an anal exam which few XBox games will receive. Forza 3 is showing a lot of undiscovered warts and wrinkles, maybe intentionally.
Bottom line, hindsight is a wonderful thing. When FMIII launched, PD really had no idea how good/bad it will be. However, they did know that GT5 was not up to scratch. If they had pushed it out of the door, they almost certainly would not have one-upped the competition, so they announced a March 2010 date to give them time to fix the issues, such as the half-assed damage model. What they did not do, as you say, is push the date back further, because prior to that no date had been announced.
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Well, my HUH was about him questioning off the line. Obviously in the top end, RWD has the advantage. But off the line, AWD for the win. That said, I have seen the RWD, FWD and AWD pan out to be properly represented. That also includes rear/mid/front engine cars as well. That includes the understeer properties of the RWD/AWD/FWD.
I had 4 RRODs. None of them are at my house because Microsoft took them back and gave me new ones, no charge.
@ simple sim
so why can't everybody share thoughts about f3 ? If they played and complain there must be something about it. Don't you think ?
So you are realy try to say that we must now say only complements about f3 ? because it has the best score in racing games this gen so far ? If game got such high score and i'm bought it and i see that isn't the best racing game this gen or ever I have every right to complain. Game isn't polished . It's rushed !
BTw real racing sim fan don't give a s**t about this gen or previous.
btw 2 but overall forza is a good sim game ! But it isn't definitive as some people try to say.
so why can't everybody share thoughts about f3 ? If they played and complain there must be something about it. Don't you think ?
So you are realy try to say that we must now say only complements about f3 ? because it has the best score in racing games this gen so far ? If game got such high score and i'm bought it and i see that isn't the best racing game this gen or ever I have every right to complain. Game isn't polished . It's rushed !
BTw real racing sim fan don't give a s**t about this gen or previous.
btw 2 but overall forza is a good sim game ! But it isn't definitive as some people try to say.
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- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Every time I hear disdain for Forza 3, I have to remind myself that it's basically spread across three categories:
But if you just want to race and collect cars... well, you might not like it. The Forza physics aren't for everyone. It's close to GT and PC sims in feel now, but still different enough that it might not please a lot of people. And yes, as I explore it more, it does have a few warts that would probably have been trimmed off if they hadn't been in a hurry to make the holidays and beat GT5.
- Racing
- Drifting
- Race car creation and painting
But if you just want to race and collect cars... well, you might not like it. The Forza physics aren't for everyone. It's close to GT and PC sims in feel now, but still different enough that it might not please a lot of people. And yes, as I explore it more, it does have a few warts that would probably have been trimmed off if they hadn't been in a hurry to make the holidays and beat GT5.
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I wouldn't use GT5p as a benchmark for sim feel. FM2, IMO, was better than that already. FM3 is up there now with PC sims and Race Pro on consoles, which seem to be the better benchmarks.
I can't speak of GT4 and older though.
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- Songoku1101
- The Jenius
I think Tenacious D is right, that FM3 is closer to GT and PC sims feel. Play iRacing and then GT5Prologue, both feel almost identical! Cars act how they are in real life. Only thing in iRacing thats better so far in BIG notice is when u break in iRacing feels way more realistic over GT5P.
Hmm in FM3 is easier to keep car under control on grass at high speeds, in iRacing or GT5P is much harder.. So FM3 is not that perfect of a sim, but its sure out there because it does other things that GT5P does not..
But for FULL comparision lets wait for GT5 full game. New Physics should be in hand and new damage models.. god knows what else they will throw in there.
Hmm in FM3 is easier to keep car under control on grass at high speeds, in iRacing or GT5P is much harder.. So FM3 is not that perfect of a sim, but its sure out there because it does other things that GT5P does not..
But for FULL comparision lets wait for GT5 full game. New Physics should be in hand and new damage models.. god knows what else they will throw in there.
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- Songoku1101
- The Jenius
That’s what I can't understand, both GT and Forza have a PP (should be peepee) system but somehow they both fail pretty badly at handicapping and evening out a race. It’s weird because you know the cars in all games have to be based on a formula combining weight, steering, tires, elevation, suspension etc... so you know there is an exact formula that could be extracted to give you a precise laptime with a bot driving and hitting all of the apexes, braking points and what not the same everytime. Why couldn't there be some sort of cross-referencing to figure out actual times and handicap the cars off of that?
What it would do is instead of putting values on mods and suspension setups on the front end, increasing the PP as you add or subtract things. It would be done on the back end, after everything is added and you're in the proper class.Then run it through its calculations of a computer driving a perfect lap on whatever track you're picking and handicap it with weight and HP incrementally after that.
It might sound a little confusing, but what I think is happening, is currently there are predetermined values being given to parts, HP and weight and somehow the multiple used to calculate this when combining these items is not producing an accurate PP figure.
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- JDA1982
I agree, Forza 3 feels like it has a very solid physics engine going on underneath everything but it's all a bit sterile. I feel that they've implemented to many assist features and everything has become easy to control. You can hold multiple drifts without concentrating, you can correct a 600bhp car kicking the back end out with no hassle at all. And yes I have all the assists switched off, but as with most games that doesn't mean there arn't modifyers running in the bacground. While you're well within your limits F3 feels fine, but as soon as you start to push and hit full race speeds the intensity doesn't change. You#'re still perfectly in control, even when your not it seems. GT5
is far more dangerous on the limits, it doesn't nanny you, if you lift off mid corner in a 500bhp mid engined car then you've probably spun, and that's how it is. If you try the same in forza you'll get a mild slide that's easilly corrected, that's not realistic. I'm loving Forza 3, but not because it's definitive in any sense of the "best sim out there" context, it's not. But it is despite it faults a very fun and enjoyable game. GT4 on the other hand annoyed the hell out of me, but faith was restored fully because GT5 is just lovely to drive.
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Wow...and I have had the exact opposite experience. Crazy how games work.
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- JDA1982
All you have to do to prove my point is take a Ford GT in Forza 3 and lift off mid corner at speed, then do the same in GT5 with the relevent road tyre's and do the same and you'll be gone pretty sharpish. That's how powerful mid-engined cars should react, Forza 3 kind of holds the car sideways so you can either correct it, or do a drift.
with the relevent road tyre's and do the same and you'll be gone pretty sharpish. That's how powerful mid-engined cars should react, Forza 3 kind of holds the car sideways so you can either correct it, or do a drift.
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All you have to do to prove my point is take a Ford GT in Forza 3 and lift off mid corner at speed, then do the same in GT5
That hasn't always been the case in my racing career IRL. So, no, I don't agree with that assessment.
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- Nigel Fox
Spot on, which is why I'm a little confused on how Forza 3 turned out. Supposedly, all through the series, mods weren't just piling on benefits like most games handle them. There was supposed to be some "gestalt" involved, in which there was some effect on the mods working together holistically. But if there is, it's minuscule.
I have to temper this with the fact that even in real life, mods do sort of accumulate performance bonuses, so Forza and GT both are pretty close. But there is a diminishing return sort of effect, and a need for balance too. Building a super tuner does involve a dash of art mixed in with the science. So on the one hand, these teams are in a rather precarios position. But on the other, they've been at this for a number of years, Polyphony for more than 15 years, and they've both built up quite a knowledge base. Plus, Dan G has really been talking up his teams technical expertise, and involving manufacturers in the development process. Yeah, it shows, but at the same time, there are these strange flaws and bugs like all Forzas have had, and it's just a bit weird to see them in a "definitive" racer.
We may have much the same thing in GT5, with actual racers hollering about some issue or other, so maybe this is as good as it gets. I suppose we'll see in GT5/6 and Forza 4.
Hey, here's a thought: for the drag racers out there, how about a mod experiment where the different turbos, superchargers and other mods are put through the paces on closely matched cars of the same make. What differences might you see?
Finding the word for this is tough. Personally, I'd describe PC sims as sterile. They're technical and clinical, and it seems like you provide much of the passion in them yourself. They're like documentaries, while Forza and GT are kind of like Bond flicks, much more flash and fireworks and emotion. But what would you say? I'm balking at using the word "arcadey," because Forza 3 has come a good bit towards the sims, but sterile is as good a word as any.
I see where people like Dave say the physics is "dumbed down," because there are some simplifications and some flavor of assists present even when you have them all off. And then there's the matter of things just being odd, like once again the 4WD drivetrain superiority, and some cars being a handful simply because the car isn't communicating well.
I think it wouldn't be such a big deal if Dan hadn't headbutted the term "definitive" on everyone, and insisted that F3 was THE racing sim of this generation. Then again, GT5, "The Real Driving Simulator" will be getting it's own vivisection soon, and I'm sure there will be some blood.
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- JDA1982
I get what you mean about PC sims and I agree to a large degree. I guess we're just using the word sterile in a slightly different context. The handling of a PC sim isn't what I'd call sterile, but the layouts of the games can often be that. Whereas in Forza the layout of the game is great, but everythings so easy to drive you don't really have to contrate hard to control the cars.
And you have raced 500bhp mid engined cars in real life have you?
I think we should simply use iRacing as the "gold standard" for handling. No one here has driven a 500bhp car at the very limit of traction. So, trying to compare games to reality is a pointless exercise.
However, it's easy enough to drive the Pontiac Soltice at Leguna in iRacing and in FM3.
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- cletus2344
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- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Massaged, then? Finessed? Wow, this is a tough call.
I'd say iRacing would be a good yardstick - having never touched it, I defer to those who have experienced it. But having pro race car drivers as clients does recommend it as pretty realistic. Live For Speed, which I have experienced, is very good too. Unfortunately, it literally took years to get it properly installed and linked to a Logitech G25 wheel controller.
Maybe I'm blessed for not having any on track experience in a tuner or race car, because Forza 3 doesn't leave a bad taste in my mouth. I'm also not hung up on Gran Turismo like I was when I first got my hands on GT4. There are a few wrong things here and there, but I'd still lump F3 in with the sims.
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