Has Forza 3 suppressed you appetite for GT5?

[Dave A]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Forza 3 is bad, it's definitely a sim. It just feels like there's uncontrolable driving aids helping you all the time. The physics feel solid, the handling is fine for the most part. I just feel like I'm being helped every time I approach the limit even though I have everything switched off. I don't think it's the best sim out there if you couldn't tell. Regarding GT4, the physics in that game, though good, had certain flaws that just annoyed the hell out of me and really damaged the experience for me. GT5 is a totally different proposition imo, it feels solid much like Forza 3, but it's not nannying. It let's me just get in the cars, turn everything off and drive, the only annoyance is that the standard tyre's are the stickier ones and you have to remember to change them for the road ones. As I said before, comparing how high powered mid engined rwd cars react in both games when you lift mid corner is very telling. You lose the car in GT5 unless you have the stickier tyres on, in Forza 3 it's always easilly controllable. Drifts are simple a case or bit left or bit right to control the angle (yes I'm simplifying, but then so is the drfitng imo), they're far too easy. I'm not saying the physics behind them are all wrong, because the game does give the impression that the physics behind it all are pretty good. It just feels like some other force is stopping the car from fully reacting how it should. And that's annoying and takes away a lot of the tension because I know I'm not going to spin round for smaller mistakes on the brakes and throttle through corners even in the hig powered cars. GT5 in the faster cars is total concentration unless I've left them on the standard tyre's. Forza 3 is not.

 

[Tenacious D]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Forza 3 is bad, it's definitely a sim.

I know what you're saying, having read similar posts of yours previously. It's funny, how well Forza does the job of delivering a good racing experience, while at the same time, "nannying" as you put it. I'm pretty sure this was deliberate, as something that was too strong a sim would anger the drifters and freak out a lot of the kids, who are probably struggling with Forza 3's physics as they are. When you try and please everyone, you end up with something like this. But... hey, taken for what it's worth, "this" is pretty good. There are already quite a few of us who have "jumped in" to the Forza pool, and it's some mighty fun... fun.

 

[Jay]

The very reason GT split into two physics modes, standard and professional.

I am a little concerned though many people who are not interested in realistic physics still tend to choose professional anyway and get frustrated with spinning out all the time. Like there is something bad about choosing the non "Professional" mode, I hope people choose the settings they enjoy. Maybe a rename might help a little?

 

[myke6699]

The very reason GT split into two physics modes, standard and professional.

I am a little concerned though many people who are not interested in realistic physics still tend to choose professional anyway and get frustrated with spinning out all the time. Like there is something bad about choosing the non "Professional" mode, I hope people choose the settings they enjoy. Maybe a rename might help a little?

I was thinking the same thing today- the fact that people would jump straight into Pro (physics) in Prologue mainly because of what it implies: that if you don't, it means you're not good enough. Perhaps instead of Arcade or Pro, replacing the latter with Simulation or replacing both with Novice/Expert. Another one Standard physics or Simulation physics.

Still, it's a much better and more realistic approach than Forza single physics system where you need to turn off TC and SM or even the ABS in order to achieve proper simulation physics. IRL, Most powerful FR- Ferrari 599 or even the SL65, is designed around these assistance. The 599 for example has so many different setting that the TC isn't a simple ON/OFF switch. Like the Z06 in FM3, I find that the 599 in the game suffers from the same problem- the rear tire is a bit too planted for a front engine RWD vehicle. Perhaps, knowingly (as others have said), T10 introduced a bit of rear tire traction (or compensate in how the car is modeled) realizing that most players will be playing the game without the traction control. Not to mention that (just like GRID), your payment increases if you turn the assists off.

Again, quite a different approach from GT5 where TC and ABS is adjustable (SM is ON/OFF). What I'm looking forward to in GT5 is to finally be able to use the on the fly adjustment (ABS, TC, Brake Bias, Torque etc. hopefully sway bar adjustment will be added)- sure it's already there in Prologue but none of the races is long enough to actually use it and there's no tire wear to warrant such use. It's little thing like this that would actually make a difference to a driving/racing game/sim and while FM3 is well thought out and for most part a well intentioned product, to me it barely fills the void.

 

[Bogie 19th]

And you have raced 500bhp mid engined cars in real life have you?

Raced, no. Driven yes.

Just curious, how old are you and what does your racing career consist of?

I am 38, and my racing career consists of racing midgets (sprint), late models and remax series (as a fill in driver, not an owner). My racing consists of front engine, rwd with the exception of the midgets.

I have been out of that scene for years now. Settled down with a wife and son and pushing pencils.

 

[blademask]

why are u guys still going over this. Physics will always be subjective. Both titles have professional sponsors saying the games are true to life, 1 has its actuall producer being a racer though.

But the presentation that GT offers can't be matched by PC or Console games, especially forza. I think most play GT as its the closest to reality simulation they are going to get. Its actually PERSONALLY challenging as well. Say what you will, but I can drive like superman in Forza because it just doesn't seem to abide by the same rules in GT. And im just talking hotlaps. Other games have always had better features,exotics or what have you, but they didn't have GT's level of immersion and quality, and they still dont.

Which i think most seem to neglect when trying to just compare feature -to- feature. GT is a car sim which strives to do just that, and deliver the closest most photo realistic experience it can. Its a great niche. Sure, Turn10 can rush out a game every hour, but they are never going to spend the time PD spends to perfect a game. And that definitely is appreciated by me at a player level. I admire the effort put into the game, I love just looking at replays or even the menu screen in the same way that I love watching TopGear/Fifth Gear/Youtube videos of cars. Thats something that isn't replicated by Forza3, and never will be.

The same way that I don't look at Live For Speed/GTR replays, its a great sim. But it doesn't offer the same "wow" factor GT does. I look at those more to focus on what I did wrong and correct. But it isn't the same appreciation for the car as if you're actually watching the real thing drive around.

 

[cobraagent90]

The very reason GT split into two physics modes, standard and professional.

I am a little concerned though many people who are not interested in realistic physics still tend to choose professional anyway and get frustrated with spinning out all the time. Like there is something bad about choosing the non "Professional" mode, I hope people choose the settings they enjoy. Maybe a rename might help a little?

People who don't know how to drive should choose Standard physics and after they complete the events,get many cars etc. should try professional physics in the arcade time trial mode in order to perfect their skills

 

[happycorey]

Casual and Simulation ?

 

[patriotzero]

This is forza 3

http://jalopnik.com/5404403/exclusive-video-of-bugatti-veyron-crashing-into-texas-lake

 

[newbielives]

I bought Forza3 today and WOW it's freaking ARCADY using the MS wheel with all aids off including the stupid line and ABS off when compared with GT5P with all aids off including ABS set to 0 using the G25.

I would say it's arcady even compared to Forza2
In no way has Forza3 suppressed my appetite 👎

 

[Raitziger]

Forza 3 does however good job fakeing that you really can drive like that. But when you take super powerfull porsche and find you how easy it is to drive with pad, something is not right.

 

[TBR 427]

I think the problem with Forza 3 is that the dev team didn't have the balls to really push themselves (or MS had them by the nutsack).

I'm sure they could have made the cars float less (there's a pair of YT vids of the GT-One and R14 on the ring that demonstrate this perfectly) over bumps; that would make the cars more lively and challenging to drive, though it would probably make it less forgiving for the newer players (why is my koenigsegg bouncing all over the place?)

I'm sure they could have gone for a better look, kick some HDR into the textures themselves, but for whatever reason they decided to try realism, and fall into the midpack instead of trying something unique.

Though that's just me; personally I would make a racing game radically different tothe ones we've got now; a broader range of cars, better roads, and I wouldn't even consider damage.

 

[GTWelsh]

You should all get a good pc and play GTR Evolution. WHAT AN AMAZING RACING SIM.

If you want a truly hardcore "as good as real life" racing game then buy GTR-E on a good pc. its epic.

which ever game . GT5 or F3, comes closest to GTR-E in terms of thrill and physics. will definatly be the better buy.

 

[chepe371]

I think the problem with Forza 3 is that the dev team didn't have the balls to really push themselves (or MS had them by the nutsack).

I'm sure they could have made the cars float less (there's a pair of YT vids of the GT-One and R14 on the ring that demonstrate this perfectly) over bumps; that would make the cars more lively and challenging to drive, though it would probably make it less forgiving for the newer players (why is my koenigsegg bouncing all over the place?)

Exactly and the last thing MS or T10 wants is to alienate you and your money.

 

[Seismica]

Exactly and the last thing MS or T10 wants is to alienate you and your money.

Thats what the driving aids are for. Many in this thread are saying with the aids off Forza still doesn't feel right. With all the aids off it should cater for the hardcore sim users, but it doesn't.

I think the physics in Forza can be compared with the standard physics in GT5P. But not the pro physics. Though in some aspects Forza has the upper hand, overall GTs physics are better.

 

[newbielives]

Thats what the driving aids are for. Many in this thread are saying with the aids off Forza still doesn't feel right. With all the aids off it should cater for the hardcore sim users, but it doesn't.

I think the physics in Forza can be compared with the standard physics in GT5P. But not the pro physics. Though in some aspects Forza has the upper hand, overall GTs physics are better.

I think you hit it on the mark. I'm still enjoying Forza3 even though it's so arcady

 

[LaBounti]

Going to shift from Forza 3 reveals Forza is an easy game to drive on the edge. Shift you can't take poor lines and break too late. Shift also feels like playing GTR with a game pad, the steering is not forgiving... Forza 3 with the pad is too forgiving. Shift keeps me on the edge of my seat when racing. i dont get that feeling in FM3.

 

[Kryz11]

I think you hit it on the mark. I'm still enjoying Forza3 even though it's so arcady

Of course its a fun game.. There are some things that can be better over GT5P..

For one example, burnouts

or

get a FWD car drive it off road so that one side of car is on grass, other one on road, hand brake, and floor it, only the tire with less friction will spin (one in grass) in GT5P both tires spin.. so GT5 needs better physics in this seance.

But what GT5P does best at end of the day, is straight forward racing and using race line for best results..
Med-High speeds GT5P takes win in physics
SLow-Med speeds, FM3 takes the win.

 

[Lain]

Of course its a fun game.. There are some things that can be better over GT5P..

For one example, burnouts

or

get a FWD car drive it off road so that one side of car is on grass, other one on road, hand brake, and floor it, only the tire with less friction will spin (one in grass) in GT5P both tires spin.. so GT5 needs better physics in this seance.

But what GT5P does best at end of the day, is straight forward racing and using race line for best results..
Med-High speeds GT5P takes win in physics
SLow-Med speeds, FM3 takes the win.

Fortunately for GT5P, racing is usually fairly high-speed.

 

[Jay]

get a FWD car drive it off road so that one side of car is on grass, other one on road, hand brake, and floor it, only the tire with less friction will spin (one in grass) in GT5P both tires spin.. so GT5 needs better physics in this seance.

That all depends what differential the car is fitted with, not really a big physics engine thing (because open diffd have been modelled) but rather a configuration thing (setting correct differential for each car). Previous GT's (GT3-GT4) did quite quite well at simulating open differentials.

 

[Kryz11]

That all depends what differential the car is fitted with, not really a big physics engine thing (because open diffd have been modelled) but rather a configuration thing (setting correct differential for each car). Previous GT's (GT3-GT4) did quite quite well at simulating open differentials.

I think in GT5P I notice it more when just doing a race in FWD car, Sometimes I just see smoke from ONE tire. But The older GOLF model, I am sure that car will only ONE tire spin in grass.. unless I am bit wrong on how's the car differential is. I also tried the Suzuki cars, which for sure on tire should spin, but it did not at. In GT5P it only works when going around corners.

Fortunately for GT5P, racing is usually fairly high-speed.

Yeah That all it matters in a racing sim, but its nice to have low speed physics done correctly as well, especially for video editing and knowing that this sim has best of each world!

 

[lalaurentide]

Forza 3 does however good job fakeing that you really can drive like that. But when you take super powerfull porsche and find you how easy it is to drive with pad, something is not right.

the bigest problem with forza 3 is the steering help, go in cockpit view and look at the steering when you turn either the joystick or d-pad, it moves slowly, this is what you call steering linearity, and it is vey high in this game. Now it behaves the way it should with d-pad, as you said you can drive no problem, but it shouldn't be the case when you are using the analog joystick to steer the car, this is why it is almost impossible to rollover as you cannot throw the car around from left to right swiftly. I can't believe noone at turn10 knows that an analog input is non-linear by definition.

 

[newbielives]

Hmmm but in GT5p, I just completely spun out on the long arc after the hairpin in Suzuka by just touching the grass with the rear left tire which felt accurate and satisfying lol

get a FWD car drive it off road so that one side of car is on grass, other one on road, hand brake, and floor it, only the tire with less friction will spin (one in grass) in GT5P both tires spin.. so GT5 needs better physics in this seance.

 

[Terronium-12]

Going to shift from Forza 3 reveals Forza is an easy game to drive on the edge. Shift you can't take poor lines and break too late. Shift also feels like playing GTR with a game pad, the steering is not forgiving... Forza 3 with the pad is too forgiving. Shift keeps me on the edge of my seat when racing. i dont get that feeling in FM3.

No. Just, no.

Shift is even easier to drive on the edge and over that edge.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Thats what the driving aids are for. Many in this thread are saying with the aids off Forza still doesn't feel right. With all the aids off it should cater for the hardcore sim users, but it doesn't.

I think the physics in Forza can be compared with the standard physics in GT5P. But not the pro physics. Though in some aspects Forza has the upper hand, overall GTs physics are better.

In your experience maybe, but not everyone feels that way I still have to say Race Pro has GT5p and Forza 3 beat in that aspect.

 

[Seismica]

In your experience maybe, but not everyone feels that way I still have to say Race Pro has GT5p and Forza 3 beat in that aspect.

Oh by all means there are many games out there with better/more realistic physics engines out there than GT. GT5P wins vs Forza for driving physics though.

As an overall game, Forza 3 beats GT4 and GT5P, but we have yet to see what features GT5 will have. It could be very close. All GT has to do is match what Forza have done in the non-racing areas of the game and its already miles ahead.

 

[Dravonic]

Hmmm but in GT5p, I just completely spun out on the long arc after the hairpin in Suzuka by just touching the grass with the rear left tire which felt accurate and satisfying lol

Indeed. The game is quite unforgiving in that aspect. Dare step on the grass while turning and you're a goner. Although I do believe the real thing is considerably more unforgiving.

 

[Kryz11]

How driving on grass is more unforgiving?

Grass is super slippery.

 

[deep_sky]

I think the problem with Forza 3 is that the dev team didn't have the balls to really push themselves

It's a weird thing, because Forza 3 is the most complete racing game out there at the moment and T10 have clearly worked hard adding new features and supporting the online community, yet at the same time, graphically at least, it's not as much as an advancement considering the 360 is generally better at graphics than the PS3, with some interiors feeling like a rush job.

Part of me thinks that T10 wanted to get the jump on GT5 which they probably believed was coming at Christmas, and had T10 known that GT5 actually wasn't coming until next year, they would have maybe spent a bit more time upping the graphics a bit and sorting out some of the interiors.

Who knows though. FM3 feels pretty polished as it is.

 

[chepe371]

As an overall game, Forza 3 beats GT4 and GT5P, but we have yet to see what features GT5 will have

Idk about that, see GT4 came out 5 years ago(almost) and people are STILL playing it. I doubt 5 years down the line anyone willl be playing FM3. To me thats a good game, when the next gen has been established people still play it despite graphics and online.