Has PD ever copied any features from turn 10?

[Metfanant]

snip

ya know what else Forza does sometimes that is REALLY REALLY cool??...if you go into the aero mods of a car...sometimes there is a "street" option for the front/rear bumper, hood, wings etc...and its really cool...

for instance...as DLC they added the 1995 Ford Mustang Cobra R...well in the modifications section there is a "street" hood, front/rear bumber, wing, and side skirts...what are the "street" parts you ask?? they are the corresponding parts for the 1995 Mustang GT! even down to having "MUSTANG GT" printed on the rear bumper...

basically giving you two cars in one...and quite exciting for me considering i own a 1994 Mustang GT (identical to the 95) so i was able to create my car...

in addition they often have popular tuner parts for cars. Again sticking with the 95 Cobra R they also include full Saleen body kits allowing you to create the Saleen S351 S/C from the same year...

these are things that i think PD misses the boat on...and a lot of the GT faithful that dismiss Forza also miss out on as well...

 

[Swagger897]

To be honest, there are many things that both PD and T10 are good at and bad at. To start off with, If anyone has ever watched a hot lap video of both Gran Turismo 5 and Forza 4 at Le Mans and say in LMP's (it doesnt have to be the same matched time and car and what not. It is just a driving comparison at high speed) You can easily pick out things from both titles that you like and hate.

From my perspective when I watch a GT gameplay, this is what I like:
Accurate Rumble strip sounds
Accurate Tire sqeal sounds (talking about a quick 1- 1.5 second tire lock up. Not including drifft)
Less road imperfections
Proper aerodynamic simulation of wind passing by camera (right after spec 2.0 I felt as if they ruined it but i noticed how much more accurate it is)
Accurate scenery from the time period scanned

Now this is what I like from Forza:
Detailed scenery objects
Defending AI
Cars are properly placed to race each other

What I dont like from a GT video:
How fast one can pass all the AI no matter how "skilled" of a driver you are in the game or reality. It is relatively easy to stay off the grass and pass slower AI.
Rabbit leader
Poor car classes versus eachother

What I dont like from a Forza video:
Poor car handling (they act as if they're on ice and snap every 2 feet)
Poor aerodynamic sound simulation
Woobling of the camera (to a degree it is good but it is an overdone feature)
SCREAHING TIRES THAT HAVE NO CHANGE IN SOUNDS WITH RELATION TO SPEED
Woodpecker rumble strip sounds

Basically to me, all the little things in GT add up to make it one of the most superior console racing games there is, with the ability to be criticized next to some PC games. Of course the driving is a big part and I've always thought they have hit the nail on the head with their physics. However the GT6 Demo felt different but somehow better. I could feel the aerodynamics actual working and going over the car when i went in to take turns through silverstone. However it has been a LONG while since we have all played any GT6 build and im sure the physics have been toned to almost perfection.

Now talking about forza, they have hit the nail on the head with details. I'll give them that to a degree. A tree looks like a tree, metalic paint looks like metalic paint (but gloss should never look white under the sun. That is the only place they messed up on paint), pavement looks like pavement, tires look alright, and carbon fiber looks like carbon fiber. Smog in the air at sebring looks real with the dying sunset but still has that perfect colorization. I just cant describe their graphics engine, it looks too good.

But, what they lack is proper simulation of driving. I feel as if when i drive on forza, it is no different than that of Real Racing 3 for my iPad. The cars dont turn and hold the direction i want them to go, as they have some sort of issue with bouncing back 5-10 degrees from where i last turned the wheel. The issue with 3rd person driving could simply be fixed, if they stopped it from pivoting around the car and left it in a locked position. That is probably one the largest problems with 4 and 5 which make it such an acrade feeling game. Interior details are stunning, but some are overdone and overexagerated. My synopsis would be I would buy the game if it let me control features that I could in a microsoft flight simulator.

And that's where i think i'll leave off on this monstorous post. Which is, if this is to be a simulator, let the community fiddle with the options. In MFS (Microsoft Flight Simulator) there are soo many options which I can set myself to fit my personal likes. Sure it's alright to design a game meant for people who love cars, but maybe allowing the ability to modify a users own personal likes would boost the enjoyment for the game. Now im sure people will respond to that statement as there are too many things which can be edited, taking too long to cover each one, or that it would be a waste so I just want them to add more cars. Well this is GTPlanet, the largest dedicated website to anything from what i've read. So give that responsibility up to us. Allow moderators to approve these customizations for the communtiy as set by GT community guidlines. Something that will allow us to put in Freeware that can be used to enhance the game. Because Microsoft Flight Simulator is really a boring sim with out doing the things you like. Flying your most favored airline or best WW2 dogfighter makes you enjoy the game a lot longer. That is something i think they should look at.

So on the Main point of things. GT focues on the smaller points to really make it a great game. Forza focuses on all the large aspects of the game which take half a second to notice. After you have found them all the game gets stale, and you try to do new things. Eventually you'll run out, and go back to the basics. Racing

 

[sayba2th]

To be honest, there are many things that both PD and T10 are good at and bad at. To start off with, If anyone has ever watched a hot lap video of both Gran Turismo 5 and Forza 4 at Le Mans and say in LMP's (it doesnt have to be the same matched time and car and what not. It is just a driving comparison at high speed) You can easily pick out things from both titles that you like and hate.

From my perspective when I watch a GT gameplay, this is what I like:
Accurate Rumble strip sounds
Accurate Tire sqeal sounds (talking about a quick 1- 1.5 second tire lock up. Not including drifft)
Less road imperfections
Proper aerodynamic simulation of wind passing by camera (right after spec 2.0 I felt as if they ruined it but i noticed how much more accurate it is)
Accurate scenery from the time period scanned

Now this is what I like from Forza:
Detailed scenery objects
Defending AI
Cars are properly placed to race each other

What I dont like from a GT video:
How fast one can pass all the AI no matter how "skilled" of a driver you are in the game or reality. It is relatively easy to stay off the grass and pass slower AI.
Rabbit leader
Poor car classes versus eachother

What I dont like from a Forza video:
Poor car handling (they act as if they're on ice and snap every 2 feet)
Poor aerodynamic sound simulation
Woobling of the camera (to a degree it is good but it is an overdone feature)
SCREAHING TIRES THAT HAVE NO CHANGE IN SOUNDS WITH RELATION TO SPEED
Woodpecker rumble strip sounds

Basically to me, all the little things in GT add up to make it one of the most superior console racing games there is, with the ability to be criticized next to some PC games. Of course the driving is a big part and I've always thought they have hit the nail on the head with their physics. However the GT6 Demo felt different but somehow better. I could feel the aerodynamics actual working and going over the car when i went in to take turns through silverstone. However it has been a LONG while since we have all played any GT6 build and im sure the physics have been toned to almost perfection.

Now talking about forza, they have hit the nail on the head with details. I'll give them that to a degree. A tree looks like a tree, metalic paint looks like metalic paint (but gloss should never look white under the sun. That is the only place they messed up on paint), pavement looks like pavement, tires look alright, and carbon fiber looks like carbon fiber. Smog in the air at sebring looks real with the dying sunset but still has that perfect colorization. I just cant describe their graphics engine, it looks too good.

But, what they lack is proper simulation of driving. I feel as if when i drive on forza, it is no different than that of Real Racing 3 for my iPad. The cars dont turn and hold the direction i want them to go, as they have some sort of issue with bouncing back 5-10 degrees from where i last turned the wheel. The issue with 3rd person driving could simply be fixed, if they stopped it from pivoting around the car and left it in a locked position. That is probably one the largest problems with 4 and 5 which make it such an acrade feeling game. Interior details are stunning, but some are overdone and overexagerated. My synopsis would be I would buy the game if it let me control features that I could in a microsoft flight simulator.

And that's where i think i'll leave off on this monstorous post. Which is, if this is to be a simulator, let the community fiddle with the options. In MFS (Microsoft Flight Simulator) there are soo many options which I can set myself to fit my personal likes. Sure it's alright to design a game meant for people who love cars, but maybe allowing the ability to modify a users own personal likes would boost the enjoyment for the game. Now im sure people will respond to that statement as there are too many things which can be edited, taking too long to cover each one, or that it would be a waste so I just want them to add more cars. Well this is GTPlanet, the largest dedicated website to anything from what i've read. So give that responsibility up to us. Allow moderators to approve these customizations for the communtiy as set by GT community guidlines. Something that will allow us to put in Freeware that can be used to enhance the game. Because Microsoft Flight Simulator is really a boring sim with out doing the things you like. Flying your most favored airline or best WW2 dogfighter makes you enjoy the game a lot longer. That is something i think they should look at.

So on the Main point of things. GT focues on the smaller points to really make it a great game. Forza focuses on all the large aspects of the game which take half a second to notice. After you have found them all the game gets stale, and you try to do new things. Eventually you'll run out, and go back to the basics. Racing

Was gonna post but all my free time was used reading this so I will + 1 this

 

[TheeFrogmanlego]

ya know what else Forza does sometimes that is REALLY REALLY cool??...if you go into the aero mods of a car...sometimes there is a "street" option for the front/rear bumper, hood, wings etc...and its really cool...

for instance...as DLC they added the 1995 Ford Mustang Cobra R...well in the modifications section there is a "street" hood, front/rear bumber, wing, and side skirts...what are the "street" parts you ask?? they are the corresponding parts for the 1995 Mustang GT! even down to having "MUSTANG GT" printed on the rear bumper...

basically giving you two cars in one...and quite exciting for me considering i own a 1994 Mustang GT (identical to the 95) so i was able to create my car...

in addition they often have popular tuner parts for cars. Again sticking with the 95 Cobra R they also include full Saleen body kits allowing you to create the Saleen S351 S/C from the same year...

these are things that i think PD misses the boat on...and a lot of the GT faithful that dismiss Forza also miss out on as well...

I view that as a cheep way to make people think they have two cars that would other wise handle totally different..

 

[TheeFrogmanlego]

To be honest, there are many things that both PD and T10 are good at and bad at. To start off with, If anyone has ever watched a hot lap video of both Gran Turismo 5 and Forza 4 at Le Mans and say in LMP's (it doesnt have to be the same matched time and car and what not. It is just a driving comparison at high speed) You can easily pick out things from both titles that you like and hate.

From my perspective when I watch a GT gameplay, this is what I like:
Accurate Rumble strip sounds
Accurate Tire sqeal sounds (talking about a quick 1- 1.5 second tire lock up. Not including drifft)
Less road imperfections
Proper aerodynamic simulation of wind passing by camera (right after spec 2.0 I felt as if they ruined it but i noticed how much more accurate it is)
Accurate scenery from the time period scanned

Now this is what I like from Forza:
Detailed scenery objects
Defending AI
Cars are properly placed to race each other

What I dont like from a GT video:
How fast one can pass all the AI no matter how "skilled" of a driver you are in the game or reality. It is relatively easy to stay off the grass and pass slower AI.
Rabbit leader
Poor car classes versus eachother

What I dont like from a Forza video:
Poor car handling (they act as if they're on ice and snap every 2 feet)
Poor aerodynamic sound simulation
Woobling of the camera (to a degree it is good but it is an overdone feature)
SCREAHING TIRES THAT HAVE NO CHANGE IN SOUNDS WITH RELATION TO SPEED
Woodpecker rumble strip sounds

Basically to me, all the little things in GT add up to make it one of the most superior console racing games there is, with the ability to be criticized next to some PC games. Of course the driving is a big part and I've always thought they have hit the nail on the head with their physics. However the GT6 Demo felt different but somehow better. I could feel the aerodynamics actual working and going over the car when i went in to take turns through silverstone. However it has been a LONG while since we have all played any GT6 build and im sure the physics have been toned to almost perfection.

Now talking about forza, they have hit the nail on the head with details. I'll give them that to a degree. A tree looks like a tree, metalic paint looks like metalic paint (but gloss should never look white under the sun. That is the only place they messed up on paint), pavement looks like pavement, tires look alright, and carbon fiber looks like carbon fiber. Smog in the air at sebring looks real with the dying sunset but still has that perfect colorization. I just cant describe their graphics engine, it looks too good.

But, what they lack is proper simulation of driving. I feel as if when i drive on forza, it is no different than that of Real Racing 3 for my iPad. The cars dont turn and hold the direction i want them to go, as they have some sort of issue with bouncing back 5-10 degrees from where i last turned the wheel. The issue with 3rd person driving could simply be fixed, if they stopped it from pivoting around the car and left it in a locked position. That is probably one the largest problems with 4 and 5 which make it such an acrade feeling game. Interior details are stunning, but some are overdone and overexagerated. My synopsis would be I would buy the game if it let me control features that I could in a microsoft flight simulator.

And that's where i think i'll leave off on this monstorous post. Which is, if this is to be a simulator, let the community fiddle with the options. In MFS (Microsoft Flight Simulator) there are soo many options which I can set myself to fit my personal likes. Sure it's alright to design a game meant for people who love cars, but maybe allowing the ability to modify a users own personal likes would boost the enjoyment for the game. Now im sure people will respond to that statement as there are too many things which can be edited, taking too long to cover each one, or that it would be a waste so I just want them to add more cars. Well this is GTPlanet, the largest dedicated website to anything from what i've read. So give that responsibility up to us. Allow moderators to approve these customizations for the communtiy as set by GT community guidlines. Something that will allow us to put in Freeware that can be used to enhance the game. Because Microsoft Flight Simulator is really a boring sim with out doing the things you like. Flying your most favored airline or best WW2 dogfighter makes you enjoy the game a lot longer. That is something i think they should look at.

So on the Main point of things. GT focues on the smaller points to really make it a great game. Forza focuses on all the large aspects of the game which take half a second to notice. After you have found them all the game gets stale, and you try to do new things. Eventually you'll run out, and go back to the basics. Racing

Gt does paint and trees better.. I don't give a flying crap if a tree sways with the wind when the textures on it are pre ps2 era.. And forza has its fair share of card board trees

 

[machschnel]

They got here by doing it PD's (and sony's) way. they marched to the beat of their own drum and innovated the genre in the process. Why turn back?

So they (Polyphony/Sony) got here by doing things their way ie. GT1/2/3/4/5.

In GT6 they will be adding micro transactions. Does this "innovate the genre"? Doesn't it's very addition constitute "turning back"?

I mean, they didn't do things this way in previous iterations of their genre innovating games, so why turn back now?

 

[tomkat492]

I view that as a cheep way to make people think they have two cars that would other wise handle totally different..

I don't view it like that. Yes, it's nice to simply have more cars. Always. But in some cases... okay, I drive an RSX in real life. It's REALLY common for RSX (and other Honda drivers) to put on little bits and bobs from similar cars (same chassis, different model or whatever). On 02-04 RSXs it's really common to see them equipped with Type-R Aero. Damn near every 5 lug Honda in the land has tried on ITR wheels at some point.

Does Forza go THAT in depth with it? Not really. They usually have one, maybe two if you're lucky (AP2 parts for the AP1 S2000), but it is a step in the right direction. Just because I have a Type-R lip, doesn't mean I actually want a Type-R.


Note: Which is something both games could learn from. A lot of people are like, "Just put in the top model and call it a day!" I think both games should put in some lower models of some of the cars. I think it'd be nice to see.

 

[McLOVIN5489]

So they (Polyphony/Sony) got here by doing things their way ie. GT1/2/3/4/5.

In GT6 they will be adding micro transactions. Does this "innovate the genre"? Doesn't it's very addition constitute "turning back"?

I mean, they didn't do things this way in previous iterations of their genre innovating games, so why turn back now?

You completely misinterpreted that. microtransactions are becoming the way of the world in general gaming (2k sports to T10 to insert random developer here). Did you consider PD "turning back" when they began offering DLC? How about when they first offered online play? None of these are exclusive to the console sim genre. Any and pretty soon EVERY game will offer some form of these features. Call it standard if you must.

 

[machschnel]

You completely misinterpreted that. microtransactions are becoming the way of the world in general gaming (2k sports to T10 to insert random developer here).

Irrelevant - Polyphony march to the beat of their own drum. What does it matter what Turn 10 does?

Did you consider PD "turning back" when they began offering DLC? How about when they first offered online play?

I view your two above examples as both positive and "done before", thus furthering the notion that it may not hurt Polyphony to sometimes do as others have already done.

Any and pretty soon EVERY game will offer some form of these features. Call it standard if you must.

So basically, "good features" from other games that Polyphony neglects to add to their own aren't needed because, essentially, Polyphony do what they want, but when perceived negative features (that others have had) are added ie. micro transactions, Polyphony have to play along? Where's that much vaunted individuality?

For instance, when a painter paints, when a dancer dances, when a writer writes, when a singer sings, I want to hear what THEY as an INDIVIDUAL have to say; whats in THEIR heart..Not a bunch of what others have said already.

I found this particularly poignant.

 

[McLOVIN5489]

Irrelevant - Polyphony march to the beat of their own drum. What does it matter what Turn 10 does?




I view your two above examples as both positive and "done before", thus furthering the notion that it may not hurt Polyphony to sometimes do as others have already done.




So basically, "good features" from other games that Polyphony neglects to add to their own aren't needed because, essentially, Polyphony do what they want, but when perceived negative features (that others have had) are added ie. micro transactions, Polyphony have to play along? Where's that much vaunted individuality?



I found this particularly poignant.

Youre still not getting it. releasing DLC or having an online community is NOT A statement. the way in which its PRESENTED would be.

 

[fredyellowone]

Keep naming, there are just a few more things to name. Those things are relative. We're talking about Forza Series and GT Series, not just GT5 which was truly disappointing in terms of AI and A-Spec mode. Overall, GT Series have had a really good AI and Campaign.

GT1 had a great single player campaign. Same for GT2. But PD ruined it all in GT4 with the infamous Cadillac Cien "cheating code".

 

[McLOVIN5489]

Sorry for the double post, but the mobile version is still buggy... Features such as DLC, Microtransactions, or online play are not pieces,but rather INSTRUMENTS. They Use what they see fit. Its their prerogative to use whats at their disposal. if any of these were exclusive to the genre and EAl/T10 were the only ones doing it for their racers, youd have a point. but as ive said this is GENERAL GAMING we are talking about.

 

[Damo420]

take this from me being a top10 board runner who played forza since the very first 1 anything tht comes from turn 10 or is copied from turn 10 will be a FAIL ! if anyone here was somewhat a top 20spot runner in any class track ect ect on forza then im sure they will agree ...... Find me one thing on forza that works and ill give you a goldfish =)
thus my switch back to good old brilliant GT =) not played gt since 3 but hey ill catch on =) nice to see the GT community is still at large

 

[wallpaper42]

PD seems pretty stubborn when it comes to being influenced by other studios. It's both a good and bad thing in my opinion. They preserve their unique style that we love but it's frustrating to see other racing games excelling in engine sounds and AI while GT falls behind.

 

[HKS racer]

The best learn from others, this applies to all things.

I like GT games but i feel they need a sales flop of a game before they will be inclined to change anything dramatic.

The wise man says: "at alla ages, you never stop learning".

And PD,
if you add a common sense feature others already have, it's not copying,
it's adding a commong sense feature which is good.

 

[Brainhulk]

For me, it's all about the driving feel. With GT Academy, it is clear that PD continues to focus on it and refine the accuracy of the driving.

At speeds over 100 mph, do i notice how accurate the trees look? If the people look like cardboard cutouts? The cool custom livery on the car i just passed? If his bumper is dented in an accurate manner? Nope, those cosmetic things are irrelevant.

Despite all the features and eye candy of Forza, i cannot forgive the innacurate driving feel.

PD is wise given the hardware limitations of the ps3 to focus on what's most important - the physics. Therefore they get a pass in my book when they seem to neglect the bells and whistles of other pretenders. Hopefully they continue down their own path.

 

[HKS racer]

For me, it's all about the driving feel. With GT Academy, it is clear that PD continues to focus on it and refine the accuracy of the driving.

At speeds over 100 mph, do i notice how accurate the trees look? If the people look like cardboard cutouts? Nope, those cosmetic things are irrelevant.

At speeds over 100 mph I do notice how accurate AI is, how accurate damage system is, how accurate online is, how accurate flag rules are, etc.

 

[Magic Ayrton]

Hell PD don't even copy from GT games like GT4!- I played arcade yesterday with a Peugeot 205 T16 on a rally course and I just had so much fun and that was with a controller.. what happened?

 

[HKS racer]

Hell PD don't even copy from GT games like GT4!- I played arcade yesterday with a Peugeot 205 T16 on a rally course and I just had so much fun and that was with a controller.. what happened?

Aliens kidnapped them. That explain the moon rover.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

....... Okay. Seriously. I don't know how you came up to that conclusion of me just saying "driving". No, I don't go on a Sunday drive, I race. I "drive" fast, not slow and no I do not make my own constant speed limit... Why does it make me believe this somehow annoyed you over me saying "driving" when it can includ driving fast as well?

It'd didn't annoy me, there is a distinction between driving and racing they're quite different. So I had to just ask because usually when someone talks about racing they do so with the idea that they are passing cars and running down laps or times and trying to win something. Driving on the other hand is not any of that, but just purely driving around and what not, also racing isn't limited to driving hence the distinction. You're just splitting hairs and seem to be defending a tag line, which is strange really.

 

[TokoTurismo]

It'd didn't annoy me, there is a distinction between driving and racing their quite different. So I had to just ask because usually when someone talks about racing they do so with the idea that they are passing cars and running down laps or times and trying to win something. Driving on the other hand is not any of that, but just purely driving around and what not, also racing isn't limited to driving hence the distinction. You're just splitting hairs and seem to be defending a tag line, which is strange really.

I'm not defending anything, trust me. I do like driving (for Online free run), and racing as well. I too don't really get why GT has "Driving" in its title.