Head Tracking Confirmed for GT5!!!

[turbomp301]

Video of Inside Sim Racing talking about 3D and headtracking. Skip to about 28:00

[youtubeHQ]AdH8tFpkKYA[/youtubeHQ]

These guys seem to like the effect but stress that the proper setup is important

 

[scope72]

Just about to walk to the post office and pick up my PS Eye and will now go on the adventure of mounting this to my driving setup. Anyone got any ideas and pointers? Surely I'm not the only one who has been doing mental configurations since E3...

A few things that I'm wondering and wanting other people's input on...

1. I assume it will work best when up close (mounted behind the steering wheel)
2. What is a good way to temporarily mount it. So that my buddy can use for LBP or something similar?

Once I finalize some of my ideas I will post them here for everyone. This could turn into a pretty cool thread.

EDIT: Ok, if anyone was wondering there is not a screw hole of any kind on the eye. Here are a couple photos I have pulled from a Google image search.

So it appears it will need to be clamped in. Which is good because it is removable when needed for other uses. I think I will go to Lowes/Home Depot in the next few day and look around.

One more thing, I hope it works if your about 10 feet from the tv.

 

[witham]

One more thing, I hope it works if your about 10 feet from the tv.

Me too If not a will put it on a tower of DVD cases infront of my G25.

 

[scope72]

Me too If not a will put it on a tower of DVD cases infront of my G25.

Not 100% sure, but...

I am going to assume that the most important thing is getting it close to your face. That way at least it is reading your face correctly. Then, I am hoping that there is some type of adjustment that can be made within GT5's menus so that a far away tv does not mess up the angles. (am I describing this correctly)

The more I think about it, the more likely I am to just go with it and see if it works out.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Just about to walk to the post office and pick up my PS Eye and will now go on the adventure of mounting this to my driving setup. Anyone got any ideas and pointers? Surely I'm not the only one who has been doing mental configurations since E3...

I am also going to be picking up the PS Eye, and will be adding it into my custom cockpit as well. So, I am very interested to see what you come up with.

Initially I was planning on drilling some holes and building a custom mount for it, up next to the wheel. However, it would be nice to be able to use the device in the living room (in front of the 52") and not just have the PS Eye confined to the cockpit/gaming room.

I am going to assume that the most important thing is getting it close to your face.

This is the main issue. Finding a place where the Eye can mount, that is close to your face, but not blocking your view in any way.

Because I'm implementing this into a custom cockpit, with a large HDTV (46") mounted low (and close), so the wheel matches up with it's placement on screen (cockpit view). I'm a bit more limited in spaces to mount the Eye where it won't obstruct any of the viewing area, but still give an accurate reading.

 

[the Interceptor]

I wonder why there's not much talk about this feature here. While I find it to be somewhat of a milestone in the progression of Gran Turismo, I am more or less shocked about the implementation of head tracking as demonstrated in the video a couple of posts before this one.

As it seems, they have taken the "look 45° right / left" views you can also trigger with the buttons on your wheel or the controller and hardwired them to the position of your head. So say you put head tracking to 10° in the game (supposing it will be adjustable), the view will stay at 0° as long as you keep your head within +/- 10°. As soon as you turn your head further, the view jumps to the 45° view. When you move your head back, the view jumps back to the center position.

To be honest, I don't really see the benefit of that. All head tracking systems I have seen move your view seamlessly and according to the position of your head. Jumping between only three possible views is more or less a gimmick than a useful feature and will likely rather annoy than help. I can only hope that this isn't what it's going to be like in the final game.

Opinions?

 

[scope72]

I am also going to be picking up the PS Eye, and will be adding it into my custom cockpit as well. So, I am very interested to see what you come up with.

Initially I was planning on drilling some holes and building a custom mount for it, up next to the wheel. However, it would be nice to be able to use the device in the living room (in front of the 52") and not just have the PS Eye confined to the cockpit/gaming room.

Yea, I have a vague idea how I'm going to do it and am more than happy to share photos of what I come up with. I will hopefully get around to it by sat/sun. Stay posted.

This is the main issue. Finding a place where the Eye can mount, that is close to your face, but not blocking your view in any way.

Because I'm implementing this into a custom cockpit, with a large HDTV (46") mounted low (and close), so the wheel matches up with it's placement on screen (cockpit view). I'm a bit more limited in spaces to mount the Eye where it won't obstruct any of the viewing area, but still give an accurate reading.

Your situation will be more difficult because my setup is higher for a wall mounted tv. But when I received it and held it just above the wheel, my view was much less obstructed than I thought it would be. Hopefully, you will see the same result.

I wonder why there's not much talk about this feature here. While I find it to be somewhat of a milestone in the progression of Gran Turismo, I am more or less shocked about the implementation of head tracking as demonstrated in the video a couple of posts before this one.

As it seems, they have taken the "look 45° right / left" views you can also trigger with the buttons on your wheel or the controller and hardwired them to the position of your head. So say you put head tracking to 10° in the game (supposing it will be adjustable), the view will stay at 0° as long as you keep your head within +/- 10°. As soon as you turn your head further, the view jumps to the 45° view. When you move your head back, the view jumps back to the center position.

To be honest, I don't really see the benefit of that. All head tracking systems I have seen move your view seamlessly and according to the position of your head. Jumping between only three possible views is more or less a gimmick than a useful feature and will likely rather annoy than help. I can only hope that this isn't what it's going to be like in the final game.

Opinions?

Yea, I am a little bit worried about this, too. However, it will be better than nothing, is only like 35 bucks, and will be good project to work on. Also, I have a feeling that will be improved by the time we receive the game.

 

[Delphic Reason]

To be honest, I saw a lot more variability in the head tracking than some of you, from the sounds of it. From all the videos I have seen, it's a more or less smooth transition. The only problem being the amount of people in the background, causing the Eye to become confused and not work up to snuff.

It's also very likely this feature will be refined prior to November.

Either way, it's a great feature. With a large HDTV, set fairly close, you can actually move your head quite a bit before reaching the edge of the screen. If GT5 allows you to adjust the sensitivity, it could be set to nearly 1:1. With a smaller screen (20"-27") it's hard to imagine the feature being very useful.

 

[Robin]

I thought the head tracking shown in that video was rather poor but it might have had something to do with the less than ideal setup they had and its likely to be an early build.

There was a noticeable delay between the movement and reaction on screen and it seemed you have to turn your head rather drastically to get the movement, it should only be a slight turn of your head, not 1 to 1 eitherwise you will be looking off the screen!

It also appeared at though there was only side to side and no up and down. The drivers field of view was dead solid (no bumping around etc.) which made me think that maybe if you activate head tracking it disables the lundging and g-force vision effects which would be a huge shame because they should work along side head tracking.

I suspect that the camera is supposed to be and coded to work mounted above your TV (how most would have it), not right in front of you but because at that event the TV was so high and far away it was not possible.

On a side note, what it that Wii sensor bar esque thing above the Sony TV in that video?

Robin.

 

[Devedander]

Because I'm implementing this into a custom cockpit, with a large HDTV (46") mounted low (and close), so the wheel matches up with it's placement on screen (cockpit view). I'm a bit more limited in spaces to mount the Eye where it won't obstruct any of the viewing area, but still give an accurate reading.\

The two biggest issues I found with the camera while using TRACKIR back in the day was lighting and distance to the face.

You wanted it close enough to see your face clearly but keep a wide enough field of view to not have to worry about your face moving out of it.

Does your cockpit support any kind of overhead mounting? If it has a ceiling or roof maybe you could mount it there?

For a while I had my camera for TRACKIR upside down and over me, just flipped the image with software.

I am personally sorry to see that this is the kind of head tracking coming to GT5... I always found the TRACKIR unplesant and unatural to use and more of a pain than useful. I would actually have prefered the psuedo 3D wii stuff we saw before....

 

[Mr Latte]

To be honest, I saw a lot more variability in the head tracking than some of you, from the sounds of it. From all the videos I have seen, it's a more or less smooth transition. The only problem being the amount of people in the background, causing the Eye to become confused and not work up to snuff.

It's also very likely this feature will be refined prior to November.

Either way, it's a great feature. With a large HDTV, set fairly close, you can actually move your head quite a bit before reaching the edge of the screen. If GT5 allows you to adjust the sensitivity, it could be set to nearly 1:1. With a smaller screen (20"-27") it's hard to imagine the feature being very useful.

As some of you maybe havnt had the camera heres some info...

The game will have a setup screen for the Eye Camera so each user in their home can configure it.
ALL titles that use it do a tutorial setup.
The Eye uses a short and a long lense (Blue/Red dot) but the camera has an auto focus as well.
If anything having appropiate lighting may be an issue more than the distance factor if people are playing on their couch.
Its likely it will be ran @ 60HZ in high res mode for 1:1 although the camera also supports upto 120Hz in low res mode.
Some might find it difficult to learn to use and be comfortable with it.
Some may feel it quite disorientating.
It is unlikely this will support forward/back axis or head tilting (LED 3DTVs like Sonys dont work if you tilt your head)
As for attaching, simple just use velcro

The camera also supports voice recognition so maybe we still have more features to be announced.
Personally Id like to be able to say a car brand "Ferrari" and it navigate my garage to all Ferrari cars, its possible but who knows if they will use "VR"

 

[Paolosev91]

voice recognition... wow!!!
And what about saying "pit stop" to request a pit?
Good ideas come up from this forum!
I also remember someone who said that switching players at pit stops during online races would be a welcomed feature

 

[Mr Latte]

voice recognition... wow!!!
And what about saying "pit stop" to request a pit?
Good ideas come up from this forum!
I also remember someone who said that switching players at pit stops during online races would be a welcomed feature

Who knows..
We could even have the ability to scan in our faces to buld an Avatar.
Remember the California trailer with the guy and no helmet?

The camera could be used for more than just the HT...

 

[Delphic Reason]

Mr Latte,

When you say lighting is the main issue, are you referring to a lack of light as an issue, or too much light?

I like my cockpit area to be as dark as I can make it (better immersion). Is this going to be a problem?

 

[Timppaq]

I'd guess too dark and it'll be a problem.

There is a solution though..

 

[Kubalivre]

Mr Latte,

When you say lighting is the main issue, are you referring to a lack of light as an issue, or too much light?

I like my cockpit area to be as dark as I can make it (better immersion). Is this going to be a problem?

Most likely.

 

[irnbrutwinturbo]

Mr Latte,

When you say lighting is the main issue, are you referring to a lack of light as an issue, or too much light?

I like my cockpit area to be as dark as I can make it (better immersion). Is this going to be a problem?

Its a huge problem with the game 'eye of judgement'. The lighting needs to be spot on to play the game well.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Its a huge problem with the game 'eye of judgement'. The lighting needs to be spot on to play the game well.

Does this mean I have to have some kind of light shining on my head, if I'm in a dark room?

What's the consensus on the amount of light necessary for head tracking systems to function at their peak?

 

[Devedander]

Does this mean I have to have some kind of light shining on my head, if I'm in a dark room?

What's the consensus on the amount of light necessary for head tracking systems to function at their peak?

Depends largely on the quality of the sensor in the camera.

The lower the light, the longer the exposure has to be to get a useable image and thus the lower the refresh rate. If you have a camera with a very good sensor you might be able to pull off stuff in a fairly dimly lit room. I don't have a PSeye so it's hard to say for sure but one work around is usually to get some infra red LEDs and shine them at your face.

You can't see infr red so it won't look like they are even on to you, but CMOS sensors see infra red just fine and so you will seem illuminated to the camera.

Bear in mind this can royally screw with any infra red remote control devices in the vicininty...

 

[Delphic Reason]

Depends largely on the quality of the sensor in the camera.

The lower the light, the longer the exposure has to be to get a useable image and thus the lower the refresh rate. If you have a camera with a very good sensor you might be able to pull off stuff in a fairly dimly lit room. I don't have a PSeye so it's hard to say for sure but one work around is usually to get some infra red LEDs and shine them at your face.

You can't see infra red so it won't look like they are even on to you, but CMOS sensors see infra red just fine and so you will seem illuminated to the camera.

That's a good idea. I will be using head tracking utilizing TrackIR for PC sims (GTR2/GTR Evo/LFS/RBR RSRBR 2010), as soon as the cockpit is more or less finished. So, I'm more than just interested in how the light source effects the PS Eye.

It will be interesting to see how this "head tracking" feature evolves from now until November.

 

[scope72]

Yea, I have the day off tomorrow. So, I am going to Home Depot at some point and will look around. If something seems to fit the way I want... I will purchase and most likely install tomorrow; and will update this post with the new info.

@Mr. Latte, good idea to use Velcro. 👍 Sometimes the best ideas are truly the simplest and that may end up being the direction I take.

Edit: If anyone was wondering about the quality, this is probably the best thing I have heard.

From Autoblog

How did those latter two work? The 3D effect did boost immersion but, other than making the rear-view mirror stand out, wasn't as noticeable as other, more in-your-face games. And the face tracking? Sadly that was being freaked out by the bright lights in the convention center. It worked occasionally, letting us look over one shoulder at looming competitors, but most of the time it completely ignored our movements. It's a shame, as we were eager to see how this feature could compare to something like a TrackIR unit on a PC, but we are told that (when it's working) you're able to turn your head in any direction – even look down into your lap if you like.

 

[scope72]

Ok, so here are some photos of how I did it. However, I do realize that my set up is different than a lot of yours. So, I hope it will at least give some of you an idea.

If anyone has any questions, critiques, or complaints (it is GTP) then fire away.

Edit: Also, because I used flash, it makes it look like shoddy work on the paint. So, I included a couple shots without flash that show its true look.

@ Mr. Latte, thank you for the Velcro idea

This is actually two pieces of metal that I glued together. They are typically used in framing houses but gave it an "industrial look" that I really liked. Also, they are black because I spray painted them.

This is eye level, but not the angle I will use most of the time.

This Velcro was only a couple bucks and is easy to put on. It has a sticky back.

Non-Flash Shots. (What it truly looks like)

 

[JDMKING13]

I love it^^^^^ great job man 👍 Im saving up for the 3d tv/Pseye as we speak!!

 

[scope72]

I love it^^^^^ great job man 👍 Im saving up for the 3d tv/Pseye as we speak!!

Thank you. Also, updating it with some shots that don't use flash. They will show what it truly looks like.

Good luck saving up. 👍

 

[Radracing]

Does this mean I have to have some kind of light shining on my head, if I'm in a dark room?

What's the consensus on the amount of light necessary for head tracking systems to function at their peak?

I'm thinking a pair of eye glass frames painted with glow in the dark paint will do the trick. 💡 or maybe those cheap sunglasses with neon colors frames and then just pop off the tinted lenses.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Stephanie: So there's face-tracking in the game and what that allows you to do is have peripheral vision to your left and right, so you can move your head and it'll actually track your face and you can see to your side. We also have 3D and they work independently but they also work very well together; it actually gives you really great visual depth.

Source:
http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/2924887

Seems like Head Tracking will only offer "peripheral vision" (i.e side to side), unless she's just intentionally leaving out information for Gamescon. Unlikely, it seems.

I'm thinking a pair of eye glass frames painted with glow in the dark paint will do the trick. or maybe those cheap sunglasses with neon colors frames and then just pop off the tinted lenses.

Hmmm... Functional and stylish. Sounds like a winner!

 

[Mr Latte]

Source:
http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/2924887

Seems like Head Tracking will only offer "peripheral vision" (i.e side to side), unless she's just intentionally leaving out information for Gamescon. Unlikely, it seems.



Hmmm... Functional and stylish. Sounds like a winner!

I dont think the tracking will do anything new or different.
All thats changed is instead of being able to program a controller to use the analogue stick we can use or head or even or faces
The report is not accurate as you still cant get a peripheral view with one screen, its not the same luv...

I tested Sonys 3DTVs last week and can confirm reports that Sonys shutter glasses loose the 3D signal if you tilt your head to say like "10 or 2 oclock positions" So head titling is certainly not likely to be in as this works with 3D and its then unlikely that forward back motion will be in neither, damn, damn, damn.. In general this isnt as great as I had hoped it would be and think it will feel a little unnatural and more like on rails with just the left/right working. I would of loved full freedom of movement on all axis, damn...

 

[scope72]

Hmmm, so maybe 2D head tracking is all directions, but 3D headtracking is only side to side. Just a thought, but if what you are saying is correct (in regard to the loss of 3D when looking up and down), then it would fit with everything we have seen. Including the video being discussed in the general thread.

 

[Devedander]

I tested Sonys 3DTVs last week and can confirm reports that Sonys shutter glasses loose the 3D signal if you tilt your head to say like "10 or 2 oclock positions"

Really? Because that I believe that is a sign of polarized 3D (as you rotate your head the polarization failes as horizontally and vertically polarized in the glasses and screen no longer match) and not shutters.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Scope! That setup is a-maz-ing. Great work on the paint and getting the eye toy mounted God (and you) only know what the hair dryer was for

Jerome