Help me be a better driver, how would you take this corner?

[JulesDennis]

@Conquerer
I agree in your point (general speaking).
But imho the first mistake made by OP was leaving the door open when he knew that there are 3 guys on his tail.That created the situation to start with.
I can understand that he was trying (in a way) to give enough room to the Bettle that actually had the inside line going into the breaks and was going to make a move no matter what.
The problem starts now:Bettle is going to get the spot since OP pretty much lifted and gave the "signal" to him:"go ahead and pass me".
Now if the Viper was "clean" or "fair" he would not try to go 3 wide or pass two cars coming from behind in that corner and thus the mclaren would not think to go for that same "space" in the first place (unless he was going to "force" pass no matter what).
By the time OP decided to "close" the "door" it was too late.Mclaren was already there and Bettle/Viper were gone throu that "door" already.
So imo he:
a.Close the door (if he could in the first place)
b.Go 2 wide with the bettle and keep that outside line
c.let everyone go.

 

[Conquerer]

@Conquerer
I agree in your point (general speaking).
But imho the first mistake made by OP was leaving the door open when he knew that there are 3 guys on his tail.That created the situation to start with.
I can understand that he was trying (in a way) to give enough room to the Bettle that actually had the inside line going into the breaks and was going to make a move no matter what.
The problem starts now:Bettle is going to get the spot since OP pretty much lifted and gave the "signal" to him:"go ahead and pass me".
Now if the Viper was "clean" or "fair" he would not try to go 3 wide or pass two cars coming from behind in that corner and thus the mclaren would not think to go for that same "space" in the first place (unless he was going to "force" pass no matter what).
By the time OP decided to "close" the "door" it was too late.Mclaren was already there and Bettle/Viper were gone throu that "door" already.
So imo he:
a.Close the door (if he could in the first place)
b.Go 2 wide with the bettle and keep that outside line
c.let everyone go.

Yeah, I agree and was going to touch on that as well but had already written a lot. I think while OP was drivingly cleanly, he was too conservative going into this corner and basically gave the position away without any fight at all, and as you said it sort of created the mess in a way, or at least some of it. While the McLaren driver was way too far behind and stupidly went for a pass that was never going to happen, it looks like he only tried it because of how wide OP left the door open.

I think you should've fought a bit more with the Beetle and adapted your line to be less of a time trial/quali line and more of a racing for position line by braking later and getting ready to defend the inside of the 2nd part of the chicane. Also it looks like once you started braking you just held on the brakes until you were ready to turn in and this left the door incredibly open for everyone. Would've been better for you to be a bit more aggressive and lift off the brakes and coast a bit into the corner to keep some of your speed and not let everyone dive past you there. That was pretty much my 2nd option that I listed. Although as I said, the Viper divebombing the Beetle probably would've still caused some contact with you, although you probably would've come off a little better either way.

 

[RotorHed]

Not sure why you think I'm at fault, if you watch the second video you'll see the mclaren in my rear view when I start turning, how am I supposed to know he's going to hit the gas and dive into the corner.

Well it is a race scenario ... and often that means passing other cars.

I’m not sure why you wouldn’t expect someone to pass you.

Effectively you took the “non defensive” outside line (or if you prefer you defended the outside line by remaining there) and that means the car(s) behind are entitled to take the inside line.

I don’t know if you do or watch that much racing - but it’s common to see cars switch to the inside to defend for this very reason.

Once the car behind gets enough of their car along side - more or less just the front wheels - they are entitled to space and it becomes your problem to give them that space. Or to look at it another way, you chose the outside that means you must now stay outside if a car gets inside of you.

So you correctly received the penalty and SR degrade for ruining someone else’s race.

 

[DigitalBaka]

As others have said, I think fault of the incident in on the McLaren, That said, you left a loooot of room for the VW and Viper going into that turn. I'd say sacrifice the entry to that turn by moving left 1/2 to 3/4 of a car width to close that off and telegraph for the guy behind you. He may have tried around the outside but I don't think he'd make it enough to be along side for the second corner. Given that I think you'd be able to make better exit than any of those 3, avoided the penalty and had a good run on 3rd into the next braking zone.

Hard to see in the heat of the moment but I applaud your mindset of improving your own skillset instead of blaming the drivers around you.

 

[TeWheke]

You were just unlucky to be assigned a penalty by the arbitrary system, the McLaren makes a ridiculously late dive well past the point where it could do so and have any expectation of space and thus is 100% at fault. Sadly any time there is a car behind you on that corner you have to expect something insane like that, so either need to cover the inside or stay wide to avoid contact.

 

[Cfft555]

Commend your attitude to improve.
I see a few issues here. By no means should you get a penalty, but I can see why. Turning in from off racing line and making contact is the reason you got the penalty, By no means should the 4th place driver try to make that pass though

1 - You should never have allowed the white car to get on the inside, let alone allowed both of them too. You could have covered him off on the straight blocking his inside run, you don't need to provide room in that spot. Had he tried to go outside then you would have had the inside line into the corner forcing him to try to go outside you and he would have been covering off the driver in third as well. Likely you would have held position or they would have been hit with the penalties for initiating contact.

2 - By allowing the first 2 cars to go through you remove your ability to be able to hit that apex, you needed to hold speed on the outside of the corner and keep the inside line for the second part of the chicane. If the car who dived tried to hit the second apex he would have been at fault. if he stayed wide and gave you room then it is likely he would drop speed or have to go off track.

 

[Conquerer]

Well it is a race scenario ... and often that means passing other cars.

I’m not sure why you wouldn’t expect someone to pass you.

Effectively you took the “non defensive” outside line (or if you prefer you defended the outside line by remaining there) and that means the car(s) behind are entitled to take the inside line.

I don’t know if you do or watch that much racing - but it’s common to see cars switch to the inside to defend for this very reason.

Once the car behind gets enough of their car along side - more or less just the front wheels - they are entitled to space and it becomes your problem to give them that space. Or to look at it another way, you chose the outside that means you must now stay outside if a car gets inside of you.

So you correctly received the penalty and SR degrade for ruining someone else’s race.

Rofl let's not be ridiculous now. Yes, OP was too conservative and deserved to lose the first two positions for not defending at all, but he is absolutely zero at fault for the McLaren hitting him. Doesn't matter if the McLaren thought, "hmm, he let them through so I'll take him too" and no, he was never "alongside"; not in proper racing terms. He only achieved that position from over ambitiously diving into the corner at a very high speed without accounting for the OP returning to the racing line at all. You absolutely cannot have that attitude as a racer or you will crash every race.

As the driver (multiple full car lengths) behind going into the corner, it's your responsibility to perform the overtake without a collision or to have the discipline to understand it's not going to work and back off. And look how early he makes his mind up that he's gonna dive up the inside... He was committed to causing a collision from the get go. No racing driver in that scenario is going to know that McLaren is there about to t-bone them since they're on the racing line and well ahead -- and further, watching the apex, not their mirror for a rocket behind them. To expect whether someone might go for it is one thing, but to be responsible from someone behind being over aggressive and attempting a pass when there isn't an opportunity is something entirely different. He made zero effort to avoid the collision by diving into a forever narrowing gap in the first place and is entirely at fault for colliding with OP. He ruined his own race for being too greedy and not having the discipline to understand there wasn't an opportunity

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Rofl let's not be ridiculous now. Yes, OP was too conservative and deserved to lose the first two positions for not defending at all, but he is absolutely zero at fault for the McLaren hitting him.

He never placed fault on the OP/hero.

Doesn't matter if the McLaren thought, "hmm, he let them through so I'll take him too" and no, he was never "alongside"; not in proper racing terms. He only achieved that position from over ambitiously diving into the corner at a very high speed without accounting for the OP returning to the racing line at all. You absolutely cannot have that attitude as a racer or you will crash every race.

The AI steward system isn't capable of assessing intent so it's irrelevant here.

As the driver (multiple full car lengths) behind going into the corner, it's your responsibility to perform the overtake without a collision or to have the discipline to understand it's not going to work and back off.

Totally agree.

And look how early he makes his mind up that he's gonna dive up the inside... He was committed to causing a collision from the get go.

Again, intent.

He made zero effort to avoid the collision by diving into a forever narrowing gap in the first place and is entirely at fault for colliding with OP.

The villain is completely at fault for the aggressive and dangerous pass. Unfortunately the AI steward system cannot assess driver intent and does not care about fault. As long as no initial impact is made due to the illegal pass, the system can't recognize it.

Once the villain was illegally in place, the Hero then hits him, which is evident by the villains car spinning out. Had the villain actually hit the hero, the opposite would have happened but clearly the momentum went from the hero to the villains car spinning him out. The hero was awarded the penalty for this collision completely removed from the context of the preceding pass.

 

[JulesDennis]

As others have said, I think fault of the incident in on the McLaren....

How?
Mclaren (he is too agressive) was side by side with OP and OP turned into him.

You were just unlucky to be assigned a penalty by the arbitrary system, the McLaren makes a ridiculously late dive well past the point where it could do so and have any expectation of space and thus is 100% at fault.

I said yesterday that Mclaren did the wrong move by diving there.With that said the door was open.OP was too late trying to close it (already let 2 cars pass him).He was too slow and turned into the Mclaren.

Rofl let's not be ridiculous now. Yes, OP was too conservative and deserved to lose the first two positions for not defending at all, but he is absolutely zero at fault for the McLaren hitting him. Doesn't matter if the McLaren thought, "hmm, he let them through so I'll take him too" and no, he was never "alongside"; not in proper racing terms.

OP hit the Mclaren not the other way around.And whey were side by side.

without accounting for the OP returning to the racing line at all. You absolutely cannot have that attitude as a racer or you will crash every race.

OP should not do that.You should never change lines during a corner (FIA rules that is accepted in most sim racing communities) .

As the driver (multiple full car lengths) behind going into the corner, it's your responsibility to perform the overtake without a collision or to have the discipline to understand it's not going to work and back off.

Its a spit second desision.McLaren should have never done that move in the first place,I agree.But OP should have never changed his line mid corner and put him out.

He ruined his own race for being too greedy and not having the discipline to understand there wasn't an opportunity

I agree.Being the 4rth car should not try to go that agressive.That was his mistake.

 

[RotorHed]

Rofl let's not be ridiculous now. Yes, OP was too conservative and deserved to lose the first two positions for not defending at all, but he is absolutely zero at fault for the McLaren hitting him. Doesn't matter if the McLaren thought, "hmm, he let them through so I'll take him too" and no, he was never "alongside"; not in proper racing terms. He only achieved that position from over ambitiously diving into the corner at a very high speed without accounting for the OP returning to the racing line at all. You absolutely cannot have that attitude as a racer or you will crash every race.

As the driver (multiple full car lengths) behind going into the corner, it's your responsibility to perform the overtake without a collision or to have the discipline to understand it's not going to work and back off. And look how early he makes his mind up that he's gonna dive up the inside... He was committed to causing a collision from the get go. No racing driver in that scenario is going to know that McLaren is there about to t-bone them since they're on the racing line and well ahead -- and further, watching the apex, not their mirror for a rocket behind them. To expect whether someone might go for it is one thing, but to be responsible from someone behind being over aggressive and attempting a pass when there isn't an opportunity is something entirely different. He made zero effort to avoid the collision by diving into a forever narrowing gap in the first place and is entirely at fault for colliding with OP. He ruined his own race for being too greedy and not having the discipline to understand there wasn't an opportunity

I stand by my analysis but there are a couple of things I’ll mention in follow up

1) you refer to the “racing line” in your post several times. There is no definition of this in the FIA rules regarding overtaking. So referring to that line is irrelevant for a rule adjudication.

2) How a car got to it’s location is irrelevant (assuming it didn’t go off track) in the context of those FIA rules. Cars are entitled to use all of the track until the moment another car is alongside them at which point both drivers have some rules applied to them - outside cannot cut to inside and vice versa.

So once the inside car got inside to the apex - how that car got there doesn’t matter, the game simply sees the outside car driving into the inside car and so the outside car gets the penalty and that is about as far as the FIA rules go.

Whether you feel the passing car made a dangerous manoeuvre is a slippery slope - the driver of that car might be very good through that corner - without seeing his laps and other performances it’s not fair for us to judge whether he could or could not have made the corner.

 

[Sean Renon]

How?
Mclaren (he is too agressive) was side by side with OP and OP turned into him.



I said yesterday that Mclaren did the wrong move by diving there.With that said the door was open.OP was too late trying to close it (already let 2 cars pass him).He was too slow and turned into the Mclaren.

Pause video 1 at 16 seconds. How can you seriously tell me that the McLaren was side by side?

 

[zzz_pt]

How?
Mclaren (he is too agressive) was side by side with OP and OP turned into him.

I think you're trolling tbh.

He lefts off the brakes and dives at high speed into the inside when the Ferrari is braking and cornering. There's no chance he would make the first corner without t-boning the Ferrari or the second corner at the speed he was going. If he's not side by side with the Ferrari when during the braking he can't just dive in mid breaking and expect the Ferrari to give him space.

So once the inside car got inside to the apex - how that car got there doesn’t matter, the game simply sees the outside car driving into the inside car and so the outside car gets the penalty and that is about as far as the FIA rules go.

Whether you feel the passing car made a dangerous manoeuvre is a slippery slope - the driver of that car might be very good through that corner - without seeing his laps and other performances it’s not fair for us to judge whether he could or could not have made the corner.

Him being fast on that corner also doesn't matter. If there's someone in front, you can't drive like you're alone on track and you have to take a different approach. It is fair to judge an incident regardless of lap times because what matters is what happens when both cars are involved and fighting for position.

 

[DigitalBaka]

How?
Mclaren (he is too agressive) was side by side with OP and OP turned into him.

When the OP/Ferrari began his turn and committed to a line the McLaren was still well behind. The lead driver is entitled to his line regardless of how defensive or not it may be. The trailing driver must respect this, period. If he can safely get by he can and should do so. If he cannot he should react accordingly by taking a different line (McLaren couldn't here) or slowing down (possible). I don't think the McLaren had any malicious intent to "divebomb" but the incident is still his doing.

Incidents are not a "moment in time" kind of thing. If you show me a picture of the instant of contact, where it appears the McLaren is at least alongside and on the apex if not ahead slightly, my opinion might be different. However, in the preceding few seconds, being able to see that he was behind when the lead car established a line throws all that out the window for me. The rules are the rules because they are the rules. I assign blame to the McLaren because he did not respect the rules. Not saying he's a dirty driver or an @$$ but he misjudged this one based on the evidence before me.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I was reading more about dive bombing on race message boards and found this funny video of a driver dealing with a real live dive bomber

 

[JulesDennis]

When the OP/Ferrari began his turn and committed to a line the McLaren was still well behind. The lead driver is entitled to his line regardless of how defensive or not it may be. The trailing driver must respect this, period. If he can safely get by he can and should do so. If he cannot he should react accordingly by taking a different line (McLaren couldn't here) or slowing down (possible). I don't think the McLaren had any malicious intent to "divebomb" but the incident is still his doing.

Incidents are not a "moment in time" kind of thing. If you show me a picture of the instant of contact, where it appears the McLaren is at least alongside and on the apex if not ahead slightly, my opinion might be different. However, in the preceding few seconds, being able to see that he was behind when the lead car established a line throws all that out the window for me. The rules are the rules because they are the rules. I assign blame to the McLaren because he did not respect the rules. Not saying he's a dirty driver or an @$$ but he misjudged this one based on the evidence before me.

When OP turns left left and changes his line the Mclaren is already there.In either case when you go in the outside line during a corner and people are in the inside (it does not matter if they are a 1/4 in front or behind) you should always keep the same line and never change it mid corner.This is a basic rule when you defend during a corner.This is how FIA calls it.This is what most of the organized sim racing communities have as a rule:you never change line during a corner when there is another car in that line (while defending or attaching for that matter).It is not only a matter of respect but safety too (irl that is)
You need to commit in one line when you defend a corner and stay in there.OP does not do that and thats why its a fair penalty.
So it may look like Mclaren is in fault (again I would not try to force the issue there especially in GTS where people dont know basic rules of racing) but irl OP would get a penalty like it happens in this GTS race.

 

[polizei]

Not your fault, IMO. But the penalty system isn't perfect.

 

[zzz_pt]

When OP turns left left and changes his line the Mclaren is already there.

So every dive bomber is good because they're "already there" when the person in front is turning... Seems legit.

In either case when you go in the outside line during a corner and people are in the inside (it does not matter if they are a 1/4 in front or behind) you should always keep the same line and never change it mid corner.

IF they're side by side at the beginning of the braking/turning zone. Not at the apex. And they weren't. Also, you can't change trajectory mid braking. The MaLaren (as the Lexus on the other thread) decided to stop braking and dive for the inside to then brake again into the apex. That's BS driving.

This is a basic rule when you defend during a corner.

Nope.

This is how FIA calls it.

What?

This is what most of the organized sim racing communities have as a rule:you never change line during a corner when there is another car in that line (while defending or attaching for that matter).

The Ferrari didn't do that. There's also a rule that you don't change trajectory while braking. McLaren did just that.

It is not only a matter of respect but safety too (irl that is)

Indeed. The McLaren would be given a penalty IRL. Not the Ferrari.

You need to commit in one line when you defend a corner and stay in there.OP does not do that and thats why its a fair penalty.
So it may look like Mclaren is in fault (again I would not try to force the issue there especially in GTS where people dont know basic rules of racing) but irl OP would get a penalty like it happens in this GTS race.

OP kept his line and was on the outside because he decided to give the inside line to the other 2 drivers who were going faster.
You have no idea what you're saying...

 

[Sean Renon]

So every dive bomber is good because they're "already there" when the person in front is turning... Seems legit.



IF they're side by side at the beginning of the braking/turning zone. Not at the apex. And they weren't. Also, you can't change trajectory mid braking. The MaLaren (as the Lexus on the other thread) decided to stop braking and dive for the inside to then brake again into the apex. That's BS driving.



Nope.



What?



The Ferrari didn't do that. There's also a rule that you don't change trajectory while braking. McLaren did just that.



Indeed. The McLaren would be given a penalty IRL. Not the Ferrari.



OP kept his line and was on the outside because he decided to give the inside line to the other 2 drivers who were going faster.
You have no idea what you're saying...

I don't think it's worth arguing with him anymore, he is clearly the type of driver that dives for the inside of every turn and uses other peoples cars as a barrier to make his turn, then claims they should've stuck to the "outside line" they committed to and he's not at fault.

 

[JulesDennis]

Lol....When people dont understand rules.
OP said he gave up the inside line.FIA rules say that when you defend- in a corner- you pick a line and keep that line.GTS tries to enforce those rules (or some of them).End of story.
How two people magaged to pass OP from that same line in the first place?Because OP gave that line.Mclaren never should have gone there in the first place.(read my first posts).Op should not changed his mind and "close the door" mid corner.
If someone does not undestand/know how he should defend in a corner in different situations he:
either learn the rules (we can debate if rules apply here and how) or think he knows how to (and have his own personal opinion about "clean" racing).
@Sean Renon
If you think you know how clean or not I am,I can race you or anyone else that "think" he knows how I race.You should never make these kind of statements for people you dont know.
You could on the other hand,check FIA rules about defending a position,in order to learn them.Then we can talk again.

 

[zzz_pt]

Lol....When people dont understand rules.
OP said he gave up the inside line.FIA rules say that when you defend- in a corner- you pick a line and keep that line.GTS tries to enforce those rules (or some of them).End of story.
How two people magaged to pass OP from that same line in the first place?Because OP gave that line.Mclaren never should have gone there in the first place.(read my first posts).Op should not changed his mind and "close the door" mid corner.
If someone does not undestand/know how he should defend in a corner in different situations he:
either learn the rules (we can debate if rules apply here and how) or think he knows how to (and have his own personal opinion about "clean" racing).
@Sean Renon
If you think you know how clean or not I am,I can race you or anyone else that "think" he knows how I race.You should never make these kind of statements for people you dont know.
You could on the other hand,check FIA rules about defending a position,in order to learn them.Then we can talk again.

The other 2 drivers passed the OP because they were beside him into the braking zone. The Bettle was already in front before the turn in point and the Viper was following on the slipstream (the Viper proceded to bump the Bettle on the inside, being a bit of a jerk, but both went on). The McLaren was way behind, not side by side with the Ferrari. So the Ferrari could use all the track again. He didn't close anything. The McLaren dove for the inside and was carrying too much speed, obviously. There's no chance he'd overtake without contact even if he had a 1 car's width on the inside.

You're treating this situation as if the McLaren and the Ferrari were side-by-side at the beginning of the braking zone (that is what defines if the leading car has to give a 1 car width or not). It looks like you didn't even watch the video.

 

[JulesDennis]

The other 2 drivers passed the OP because they were beside him into the braking zone. The Bettle was already in front before the turn in point and the Viper was following on the slipstream (the Viper proceded to bump the Bettle on the inside, being a bit of a jerk, but both went on). The McLaren was way behind, not side by side with the Ferrari. So the Ferrari could use all the track again. He didn't close anything. The McLaren dove for the inside and was carrying too much speed, obviously. There's no chance he'd overtake without contact even if he had a 1 car's width on the inside.

You're treating this situation as if the McLaren and the Ferrari were side-by-side at the beginning of the braking zone (that is what defines if the leading car has to give a 1 car width or not). It looks like your didn't even watch the video.

Either we are looking at the same video or not.Going into breaking zone only the VW was beside Op's Ferrari.Then OP decide to take the outside line into that corner and slow down his car compered to the others behind-he knew that something is going to happen or was afraid that it will happen-.By doing that he has to commit to that line.Why?Because Bettle is in the inside.Then Viper (the real "villan" here) dives there too.Then the Mclaren follows.
I already wrote.Mclaren should not go there in the first place since there is a "demolution derby" in front.
OP should keep the line he picked in the first place.
He opened that door.He is not allowed to close it mid corner.Basic FIA rules.

 

[zzz_pt]

Either we are looking at the same video or not.Going into breaking zone only the VW was beside Op's Ferrari.Then OP decide to take the outside line into that corner and slow down his car compered to the others behind-he knew that something is going to happen or was afraid that it will happen-.By doing that he has to commit to that line.Why?Because Bettle is in the inside.Then Viper (the real "villan" here) dives there too.Then the Mclaren follows.
I already wrote.Mclaren should not go there in the first place since there is a "demolution derby" in front.
OP should keep the line he picked in the first place.
He opened that door.He is not allowed to close it mid corner.Basic FIA rules.

The Ferrari has to commit to that line during his fight with the cars that were side by side with him. In this case, the Bettle (the Viper used the opportunity and went inside too). He (the Ferrari) doesn't not have to leave the door open after being overtaken. The McLaren was way behind to fight for a position on that corner. Look at frame when the McLaren starts braking and how far away he is from the other 3.

He only got to the inside of the Ferrari because he lifted off his brakes and dove for the inside. He was not side by side with the Ferrari so the Ferrari didn't have to give keep the inside open after letting the other two pass.

 

[Sean Renon]

If you think you know how clean or not I am,I can race you or anyone else that "think" he knows how I race.You should never make these kind of statements for people you dont know.

OK, I won't assume I know anything about you.

OP said he gave up the inside line.FIA rules say that when you defend- in a corner- you pick a line and keep that line.GTS tries to enforce those rules (or some of them).End of story.

Actually, I never said that, but I guess you can assume you know things about me.

If someone does not undestand/know how he should defend in a corner in different situations he:
either learn the rules (we can debate if rules apply here and how) or think he knows how to (and have his own personal opinion about "clean" racing).

That's your problem, you think I was defending - when I clearly wasn't defending - there was nobody to defend!
The McLaren starts his turn, realizes he's coming in too fast - has to REAPPLY the brakes - and then bashes into the side of my car.

This wasn't two drivers coming into a corner battling for position, this is a case of 1 driver coming in much too quickly without a linear application of brakes and thus causing an accident.

My original question is how am I supposed to reasonably avoid this type of accident in the future, and the response I've basically gotten was defend the inside line better, which I'm planning on doing when the opportunity presents itself again.

However, most people on here have agreed that the game in this case has incorrectly applied the penalty to me when the McLaren was at fault.

As you have not actually posted any links to rules that apply to this situation that backup your point of view, I'm going to be inclined to agree with the majority of people here that I was not in the wrong (which frankly, I didn't even ask about).

If you feel the majority of people on here are wrong, then by all means prove me wrong, but in my opinion after interpreting the rules myself - there is no way the McLaren can be in the right in this situation.

 

[DigitalBaka]

@JulesDennis I just don't see what you're seeing. I see the Ferrari commit to the corner as the Viper disappears from the rearview in video 2. At which time the McLaren is still 1-1.5 car lengths behind. It appears to me that from both POVs, the McLaren and Ferrari commit to the corner at the same time. McLaren is faster but, crucially, still behind the Ferrari. Until impact, of course. He tried to get on the brakes again but it was far too late at that point.

 

[JulesDennis]

0.16
The moment they make contact.They are side by side and the Ferrari is turning inside/changing line.Look how much room he has in the outside (the side he picked to defend in that corner/actually to not "defend" his position by his own words).
Read my other posts and why the penalty (by Fia rules) is fair.

@Sean Renon
The moment the Ferrari picks the outside line in that corner,in that situation,then Ferrari must keep that line and then go to the inside in the next corner (second part of the S if you will)
I already said IMO Mclaren should not have done that move.I would not to put it in another way.
But he did it because there was actually room there.He did not "dive-bomb".There is no car there when he hits the apex/kerbs.The moment he is there there is no way for Ferrari to defend that line.Keep it outside and have the advantage after that in the second part of that S.

EDIT:Check post #31.You had 3 options going into the breaks and into that corner,

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

That's your problem, you think I was defending - when I clearly wasn't defending - there was nobody to defend!
The McLaren starts his turn, realizes he's coming in too fast - has to REAPPLY the brakes - and then bashes into the side of my car.

Let's be clear, you hit his car. You didn't go flying out into the wall here. Clearly you had more momentum than the villain and hit him. Had he hit you he would have retained the inside line illegally using you as a braking wall and possibly punting you off of the course. The only reason why you punted him off of the course was because he had already began his ascent up the hill right when you turned into him and knocked him left. That's the whole reason why you got hit with the penalty. We can argue all day if the SR system is right or wrong but the SR system assessed you as the car initiating impact here.

Keep in mind, I'm not specifying fault or blame here, the SR system doesn't even have those terms.

 

[DigitalBaka]

But he's not picking the outside line. He does not commit to any line until the Viper and Beetle have passed. At that point he commits to what I would say is a late apex line. When he commits the McLaren is still behind and by more that just a bit. I do not see that he is being reactive to the McLaren in choosing his line through the corner. They commit together and from what I see the McLaren misjudged the situation ahead.

I've not read the FIA rules verbatim...or at all. If it is the case they state "how you get there doesn't matter" and only the moment of impact is considered that is woefully inadequate by any standard. If all we care about is the "snapshot" then this sort of dangerous driving, and I think we all agree it is by what I'm seeing in the discussion, should be OK and permissible and we know that it is not. Because how you get there does matter in every case.

No, the SR system is not currently capable of that sort of inference and taking in all the contributing factors. Current state I get that the Ferrari gets the penalty. But as we are looking back ourselves we can take in that info and use it in our "judgement" or the situation.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

No, the SR system is not currently capable of that sort of inference and taking in all the contributing factors. Current state I get that the Ferrari gets the penalty. But as we are looking back ourselves we can take in that info and use it in our "judgement" or the situation.

Right, but what is our goal? Are we trying to learn the best choice of action to appease the GT SR system? Or are we simply looking for ethical peer approval that we are not culpable, which has no bearing on the game?

Clearly the villain was reckless here and ethically at fault.

But, the OP's actions result in a penalty. If he does not want that penalty and is met with that situation again, I think he is best served going side by side on the first turn and trying to beat the villain at the second apex. This should yield the best placement result with no penalty.

 

[zzz_pt]

But, the OP's actions result in a penalty. If he does not want that penalty and is met with that situation again, I think he is best served going side by side on the first turn and trying to beat the villain at the second apex. This should yield the best placement result with no penalty.

The penalty system has to be fixed and not force people to drive unrealistically, giving the upper hand to those who dive bomb and take advantage of a failing penalty system.

I'm not changing the way I drive. I'm not driving at all on sport mode races. I'm already driving 1/10th of what I did on the first 1 or 2 weeks. But unless the penalty system is improved / fixed, I won't be playing as much. I'm just racing in lobbies with some friends.

 

[JulesDennis]

To make it more clear (from my point of view):



There are a few "similar" insidents there -penalties because of contact in corners-.Not always the case where the car in front getting the penalty (and the other way around).

But he's not picking the outside line. He does not commit to any line until the Viper and Beetle have passed. At that point he commits to what I would say is a late apex line. When he commits the McLaren is still behind and by more that just a bit. I do not see that he is being reactive to the McLaren in choosing his line through the corner. They commit together and from what I see the McLaren misjudged the situation ahead.

I've not read the FIA rules verbatim...or at all. If it is the case they state "how you get there doesn't matter" and only the moment of impact is considered that is woefully inadequate by any standard. If all we care about is the "snapshot" then this sort of dangerous driving, and I think we all agree it is by what I'm seeing in the discussion, should be OK and permissible and we know that it is not. Because how you get there does matter in every case.

No, the SR system is not currently capable of that sort of inference and taking in all the contributing factors. Current state I get that the Ferrari gets the penalty. But as we are looking back ourselves we can take in that info and use it in our "judgement" or the situation.

Fia rules are pretty clear about how you defend a corner.Just check them out.OP actually does pick the outside line.You can even say that he has no choice:VW is beside him ( before the breaking zone) and already in the inside.Then OP choose to lift off and let the Viper go too.Its 3 wide btw there when the Viper (from the inside of both Ferrari and VW) dives-bombs to make a 2ble pass.At that moment OP line is the outside line.The only mistake he does is that when he decides to go "inside" the Mclaren is already there.If OP keep his line the scenario is different:
a.Both keep their line,no contact (and OP has the inside in the next part of S and the advantage)
b.Mclaren hits OP and gets a penalty (if the system actually works as it should).