Help me be a better driver, how would you take this corner?

[zzz_pt]

I do not disagree with these but...A simple Questions:
Did the Ferrari hit the Mclaren or the Mclaren the Ferrari?If we cannot agree to that there is no point to keep doing this.

The McLaren dived for the inside. When the Ferrari started turning the McLaren was 2 cars behind. You only get to the side of the Ferrari by going at a speed you shouldn't be going and that's exactly what the McLaren did. Let off the brakes and dived.

They hit each other. The blame is on the McLaren.

 

[rono_thomas]

Outside the track that is?.



Ok.One car changed its line but the other hit that car.And that other should have
a.Not be there in the first place (I wrote it alredy even though the door was open)
b.Go off track because Ferrari changed his line/mind mid corner about protecting his position.
I think I get what you guys say:
"I am in front,I have the right to change my line mid corner as I please."
Its wrong by FIA rules but whatever.

Ok FIA rules,

How many times did the Mclaren change his line in the breaking zone?

How many times is he allowed to change line in the breaking zone?

 

[JulesDennis]

The McLaren dived for the inside. When the Ferrari started turning the McLaren was 2 cars behind. You only get to the side of the Ferrari by going at a speed you shouldn't be going and that's exactly what the McLaren did. Let off the brakes and dove.

People dont use the same speed to take corners.
Mclaren breaks at 0.13 and downshifts.He lift his breaks a little (0.14) and brakes again and downshifts before contact is made (0.15).How you see him not braking and diving I dont know.

"This corner wouldn't have been open normally, but I was letting the two guys with a good tow go through."
" My best time is 1.39.8 and that corner is taken somewhat similar to this (although I don't turn in so late)"
"I wasn't thinking about leaving him space to blast up the inside because there was no reasonable way for him to carry that much speed into the corner safely."

Pretty much OP was going slower,opend the door and turned later than usual -by his words-.Like I said,the only mistake he did was to open the door and then trying to close it too late.


@rono_thomas
"Ok FIA rules,

How many times did the Mclaren change his line in the breaking zone?

How many times is he allowed to change line in the breaking zone?"

If he comes from behind he can change as many lines as he wants.But he has to make sure to make a clean pass.

 

[rono_thomas]

But he has to make sure to make a clean pass.

And with the Mclaren angle of attack, speed, lack of breaking (which in another incident on the nurb you had a lot to say about) and steering can you honestly say it was ever going to achieve that clean pass?

 

[JulesDennis]

And with the Mclaren angle of attack, speed, lack of breaking (which in another incident on the nurb you had a lot to say about) and steering can you honestly say it was ever going to achieve that clean pass?

If the Ferrari was going to keep his line the if contact made it would be a Mclaren fault.But that is not what happend.
If Ferrari did actually defend the corner as he should (imo),then propably nothing of all these would have happend in the first place.
We dont talk about what would happen in theory.We talk about what actually did happen.OP asked how could he avoid that situation?

a.Defend the corner
b.Go 2 wide with Beetle and get an advantage in the next part of that S.
c.Let all the cars from inside pass him.

Real life example:


Check the 1.26 between those 2.
G-Drive opens the inside and then try to close it mid corner.Then contact is made.
Who did get the penalty?The DC diving in the inside?Nope.

The Green Hell is another topic.And I made my opinion clear there too.

 

[zzz_pt]

People dont use the same speed to take corners.
Mclaren breaks at 0.13 and downshifts.He lift his breaks a little (0.14) and brakes again and downshifts before contact is made (0.15).How you see him not braking and diving I dont know.

"This corner wouldn't have been open normally, but I was letting the two guys with a good tow go through."
" My best time is 1.39.8 and that corner is taken somewhat similar to this (although I don't turn in so late)"
"I wasn't thinking about leaving him space to blast up the inside because there was no reasonable way for him to carry that much speed into the corner safely."

Pretty much OP was going slower,opend the door and turned later than usual -by his words-.Like I said,the only mistake he did was to open the door and then trying to close it too late.

If you can't see the McLaren letting off his brakes, I guess I rest my case.



Also, it doesn't matter if the leading car is slower around a corner. He wasn't slower overall, otherwise he wouldn't have started (be racing) in 2nd. The car behind doesn't have the right of way just because he's faster around a corner or approaching a corner.

 

[JulesDennis]

If you can't see the McLaren letting off his brakes, I guess I rest my case.

"He lift his breaks a little (0.14) and brakes again and downshifts before contact is made (0.15)"
My post.
" Let off the brakes and dived."
Your post.
While I see (and write) about him lifting his brakes you see no braking at all.
I rest my case.

Also, it doesn't matter if the leading car is slower around a corner. He wasn't slower overall, otherwise he wouldn't have started in 2nd. The car behind doesn't have the right of way just because he's faster around a corner or approaching a corner.

I did not say he was slower overall but he was going slower by his own choice.
BTW one hotlap does not mean that whoever is infront is actually faster than the guy behind.
But I agree.Being faster does not give the right of "free pass" or "diving" or anything else.
An opend door/inside line does on the other hand.

 

[zzz_pt]

I did not say he was slower overall but he was going slower by his own choice.
BTW one hotlap does not mean that whoever is infront is actually faster than the guy behind.
But I agree.Being faster does not give the right of "free pass" or "diving" or anything else.
An opend door/inside line does on the other hand.

That's the mentality of every divebomber. They see open doors where there are none. You have to think in advance, if you'll have the inside line when you're there. Not 3 cars behind the leading car, because once you get there, guess what, the door will be shut in your face. Unless we talk about GTS, who rewards divebombers more often than not.

 

[JulesDennis]

That's the mentality of every divebomber. They see open doors where there are none. You have to think in advance, if you'll have the inside line when you're there. Not 3 cars behind the leading car, because once you get there, guess what, the door will be shut in your face. Unless we talk about GTS, who rewards divebombers more often than not.

Dive bombers "create" doors and not "see" open doors.
You dont know my "mentality" because you have not raced against me.When you do that and still find me a "divebomber" then you can talk about my "mentality".

 

[zzz_pt]

Dive bombers "create" doors and not "see" open doors.
You dont know my "mentality" because you have not raced against me.When you do that and still find me a "divebomber" then you can talk about my "mentality".

I didn't say it was your mentality though. I said it was the mentality of every divebomber...

Well, let's agree to disagree. We're going nowhere.

 

[rono_thomas]

Dive bombers "create" doors and not "see" open doors.
You dont know my "mentality" because you have not raced against me.When you do that and still find me a "divebomber" then you can talk about my "mentality".

You have defended two opportunistic passes which were never going to work, your reason in both was because it was the car in front responsibility to relinquish position to avoid contact, even when the car in front are not doing anything that is not legal, It matters how the car behind got alongside.

Ignoring this promotes poor decision making and that is what the Mclaren is at fault for.

The only thing the op is at fault for is not protecting his SR, which is NOT racing.

 

[JulesDennis]

I didn't say it was your mentality though. I said it was the mentality of every divebomber...

Well, let's agree to disagree. We're going nowhere.

You quoted my opinion as the "mentality" of a "divebomber" but you dont actually call me one?
Really mate?
Anyway,we can agree to that last part.

You have defended two opportunistic passes which were never going to work, your reason in both was because it was the car in front responsibility to relinquish position to avoid contact, even when the car in front are not doing anything that is not legal, It matters how the car behind got alongside.

Ignoring this promotes poor decision making and that is what the Mclaren is at fault for.

The inky thing the op is at fault for is not protecting his SR, which is NOT racing.

I did not do anything like that.But since you want to bring that too up (off topic but you are forcing it here):

Its the exact different scenario than this one.
Here OP goes in the outside/there goes in the inside.
Here "diver" goes inside/there "diver" in the outside.
And now here comes the fun part.
Here you say that Mclaren is behind so its his fault (for diving in the inside).
In the other post the "diver" is actually in front and in the outside but again his fault because he gives no room and pushes the defender out of the track....
So how is it that in two different scenario's you say that the guy behind is at fault even though those two are the exact opposite?
BTW I wrote -for the Mclaren-:
"That guy should not have dived in there in the first place...".
Check my very first post.

 

[Mr616]

"He lift his breaks a little (0.14) and brakes again and downshifts before contact is made (0.15)"
My post.
" Let off the brakes and dived."
Your post.
While I see (and write) about him lifting his brakes you see no braking at all.
I rest my case.




I did not say he was slower overall but he was going slower by his own choice.
BTW one hotlap does not mean that whoever is infront is actually faster than the guy behind.
But I agree.Being faster does not give the right of "free pass" or "diving" or anything else.
An opend door/inside line does on the other hand.

That door was always going to close. It's bad racing from the Mclaren. Opportunist lunge that was never on for a "clean" pass. He should have been preparing for getting the Ferrari on the exit as his line was compromised, but no, he had to have a go there and then.

Fault lies with the Mclaren. To far back to justify that.

Space doesn't mean overtake.

 

[JulesDennis]

That door was always going to close. It's bad racing from the Mclaren. Opportunist lunge that was never on for a "clean" pass. He should have been preparing for getting the Ferrari on the exit as his line was compromised, but no, he had to have a go there and then.

Fault lies with the Mclaren. To far back to justify that.

Space doesn't mean overtake.

Read what I've wrote in my first (and not only there) post:
""That guy should not have dived in there in the first place..."

 

[Sean Renon]

Read what I've wrote in my first (and not only there) post:
""That guy should not have dived in there in the first place..."

If he shouldn't have dove in there, how can the fault be anyone but his?

You're arguing both sides of this... I can't even understand anymore.

 

[rono_thomas]

Read what I've wrote in my first (and not only there) post:
""That guy should not have dived in there in the first place..."

Which means anything your writing after that fact is irrelevant.

 

[JulesDennis]

If he shouldn't have dove in there, how can the fault be anyone but his?

You're arguing both sides of this... I can't even understand anymore.

Because mate you cannot change your "defence" line mid corner.
I said thats why you got the penalty.
You opend the door and then closed it too late.

Which means anything your writing after that fact is irrelevant.

Wrong.You have to read everything.
I explain what OP could have done in order to avoid this situation -imo- and why by RL rules something like that is a penalty (again my opinion).
Not everyone coming from behind is a dive-bomber or a "clean" driver.

 

[rono_thomas]

Because mate you cannot change your "defence" line mid corner.
I said thats why you got the penalty.
You opend the door and then closed it too late.

He can because the Mclaren should not have been there he take whatever line he pleases, and should not have got a penalty.

The game got it wrong.

 

[JulesDennis]

He can because the Mclaren should not have been there he take whatever line he pleases, and should not have got a penalty.

The game got it wrong.

Sudden changes of direction just before or within the braking zone are considered extremely dangerous, as they can leave the attacking driver nowhere to go. This rule is not stated explicitly in the FIA sporting regulations, but is considered an “abnormal change of direction” under sporting regulation 20.5

You point again?

 

[Mr616]

Sudden changes of direction just before or within the braking zone are considered extremely dangerous, as they can leave the attacking driver nowhere to go. This rule is not stated explicitly in the FIA sporting regulations, but is considered an “abnormal change of direction” under sporting regulation 20.5

You point again?

He was past the braking zone and was turning the corner. That is not changing line. It's a bad racing decision from the Mclaren period. I wouldn't have jumped in that gap as all it was ever going to do was wind up in a crash, or slowing both down and losing touch with the other 2 racers.

He should've waited it out until the exit.

 

[rono_thomas]

Sudden changes of direction just before or within the braking zone are considered extremely dangerous, as they can leave the attacking driver nowhere to go. This rule is not stated explicitly in the FIA sporting regulations, but is considered an “abnormal change of direction” under sporting regulation 20.5

You point again?

The Mclaren should not have been there by your own admission. Therefore he is to be considered a missile not an attacker. Therefore there is no defensive ruling to applied.

And its a bit if a stretch saying the ferrari changed direction suddenly. If anything he is avoiding the beetle that cuts across him.

My point still stands.

 

[JulesDennis]

The Mclaren should not have been there by your own admission. Therefore he is to be considered a missile not an attacker. Therefore there is no defensive ruling to applied.

And its a bit if a stretch saying the ferrari changed direction suddenly. If anything he is avoiding the beetle that cuts across him.

My point still stands.

Op said he did chose that line and did not defend the inside by his own will.Its actually clear that he does that from the video.
The Bettle is in his inside line even before going into the breaks.Beetle did not do antything but keeping that inside line.Then Viper "dived-bomb" the Beetle and made it 3 wide.At this point OP is just making them room to pass him -letting them go of the inside line,there are two cars there-..
Then from that position he goes straight to the inside.If that is not a "sudden change of line" while there is another behind then I am done.....

He was past the braking zone and was turning the corner. That is not changing line. It's a bad racing decision from the Mclaren period. I wouldn't have jumped in that gap as all it was ever going to do was wind up in a crash, or slowing both down and losing touch with the other 2 racers.

He should've waited it out until the exit.

OP already said that he let the others go into the inside and then he turned his car into that line.The only way to do that during breaking zone/corner is by going from the outside line (he was there) to the inside line (he went there after Beetle and Viper were gone).
Anyway no point posting anymore.You think its another mistake of the game penalty system?
Cool with me.Either way enjoy the game.

 

[Mr616]

Op said he did chose that line and did not defend the inside by his own will.Its actually clear that he does that from the video.
The Bettle is in his inside line even before going into the breaks.Beetle did not do antything but keeping that inside line.Then Viper "dived-bomb" the Beetle and made it 3 wide.At this point OP is just making them room to pass him -letting them go of the inside line,there are two cars there-..
Then from that position he goes straight to the inside.If that is not a "sudden change of line" while there is another behind then I am done.....






OP already said that he let the others go into the inside and then he turned his car into that line.The only way to do that during breaking zone/corner is by going from the outside line (he was there) to the inside line (he went there after Beetle and Viper were gone).
Anyway no point posting anymore.You think its another mistake of the game penalty system?
Cool with me.Either way enjoy the game.

Only a difference of opinion mate. Variety is the spice of life

 

[JulesDennis]

Only a difference of opinion mate. Variety is the spice of life

Its always different opinions.Even in real life these things can be a big debate.
I may be wrong.But I base my opinion in RL rules.Thats perhaps its a problem to start with.
Plus,now that I have some good years behind me (in organized leagues) I have a good amount of experience and I can see "both sides of the coin".

 

[rono_thomas]

Op said he did chose that line and did not defend the inside by his own will.Its actually clear that he does that from the video.
The Bettle is in his inside line even before going into the breaks.Beetle did not do antything but keeping that inside line.Then Viper "dived-bomb" the Beetle and made it 3 wide.At this point OP is just making them room to pass him -letting them go of the inside line,there are two cars there-..
Then from that position he goes straight to the inside.If that is not a "sudden change of line" while there is another behind then I am done.....

If thats the change of direction your talking about then your application of the rules is even further wrong.

That is the OP’s POV, his line from the get go was aiming at the apex, check his rear view Mclaren is nowhere alongside by the very definition of the rules that racing line is his.

Whatever happens after that is up to the Mclaren.

Again applying a rule after agreeing that the Mclaren shouldn’t have been there seems farcical, thats the same illogical thought process that PD provides us in giving us time penalties we can whittle down by coasting.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Here is part 1.


Now from my perspective


I got assigned a 10 second penalty for this, which seems very very harsh.

I was keeping track of both guys attempting to pass as well as the 4th who was behind me, in my rear view he looks like he is staying behind me, then dives for the inside of the corner at the last second.

This corner wouldn't have been open normally, but I was letting the two guys with a good tow go through.

I still finished well, but this put a big damper on my race.

That's B.S. - he totally dive bombed you, using the eight wheels is better than four method of cornering.

 

[rono_thomas]

That's B.S. - he totally dive bombed you, using the eight wheels is better than four method of cornering.

 

[Phoenixsui]

Hi guys
If someone has time and pations to help me i would apreciate it.
I just uploaded a replay with my ps4 account "WmPhoenix". Tags are help , analyze , question.
I was analyzing the replay and observing what the cars that overtake me do different to me. I already try to drive as smooth as possible. but it always looks like for example the Beetles and the Peugeot and RSR can drive 10-15kmh faster in most corners to me and this with really suspisious racing lines sometimes not even close to use all the track to drive a big radius.
Any good Mustang driver here? My best training time was 1:58:1 but that was in a 1 hour Training.
And can u maybe tell what you think of some overtaking of them? I hate when i go full speed, brake at latest point i can and they still manage to easily slip in the inside and outaccelerate me easy. (pepe did that for example.) They also brake really really late sometimes and i would easily overshoot in this situation. Please help!
Best regards
Oh and look who won. Another stupid VGT Car omg. It is a poison in this game.

edit: Can i link gts replays here somhow?

 

[Deadheadbill]

They also brake really really late sometimes and i would easily overshoot in this situation. Please help!

Not sure about the rest of your post, but adjusting your brake bias might help in this regard.

 

[Phoenixsui]

Not sure about the rest of your post, but adjusting your brake bias might help in this regard.

Tried all from -5 to +5 and this race used 4 to the rearwheels. Then they scream almost not.