High Performance Honda Thread: The S2000 is Back?

[YSSMAN]

Unless they re-engineer the car to cost less to build so it can be a BreezFrees competitor (using parts from the new Civic could help with that). And/or if it's just a stopgap model to build interest while they ramp up development on a proper replacement.

This is the only reasonable thing to do here. If they didn't make it more affordable, there is zero reason to bring it back. Off-the-shelf bits and pieces wouldn't make it that much worse than the outgoing version, and if anything, may actually make it more viable for day-to-day use.

Who knows, perhaps Honda could price the thing appropriately and give real competition to the MX-5 for once.

 

[niky]

I could see them simply adapting a high-horse variant of the K24, adapted to fit north-south, for the car. Lots of re-engineering, but not as much as in the days of distributors. A 200 hp K24 in a stripped down S2400 chassis. Would be interesting.

Wonder what Mugen design study they'll do next... The Mugen EK Excite Concept?

 

[homeforsummer]

Even more Bizarre is that it has an AP1 interior...

Not quite, but not far off either. I quite like the funky design but those plastics look a bit nasty. In that class, visually it's somewhere in the middle. Much better than the Chevy Spark, better than the Peugeot/Citroen/Toyota 107/C1/Aygo, not quite there next to the Kia Picanto, and a fair bit off the VW Up.

I'm envisioning a Brio Type R. Weight well under 1000kg, a 1300cc engine which spins to 9k, a seam-welded body and a set of Recaros. Old-school hot hatch FTW.

 

[avens]

Interesting idea for a hoax, since the news and pictures came straight from Honda and all. Wonder what they would have to gain from that.

You know honda has done this before right, namely nsx parts case.

 

[Tornado]

They've purposely announced cars that didn't actually exist for debut at an auto show and shown off pictures of them, only to reveal that they didn't actually exist?


I'm afraid you'll have to refresh my memory of that previous instance. No, the NSX RR wasn't a hoax either.

 

[avens]

It is mentioned on the front page of jalopnik (did they steal my obvious idea? lol) and actual examples come up in one second using google.

 

[Tornado]

No, I'm afraid you're going to have to give me a bit more than "lol they've done it before use Google" (use Google for what, exactly?) since the only similar example I can think of was not only not a hoax (since, you know, it existed), but they never gave any real plans about actually building it since it was only put together to celebrate the life of the car with the option to build more.

 

[niky]

Honda has announced (as per MotorTrend and other sources) that the show car simply points at future releases of parts and accessories for the S2000 and nothing more. They haven't committed to building a new S2000.

 

[hawkeye122]

Why was the S2000 so expensive in the first place?

 

[Tornado]

Lots and lots of bespoke parts.

Even the engine, while vaguely based on the one in the Prelude (with some design ideas that made their way into the K-series thrown in for good measure), was pretty much built for nothing but the S2000.

 

[Bopop4]

Because it's one of the best sportscars in the world, and an engine that revs to 9k isn't going to be cheap.
Tree'd

 

[avens]

Honda has announced (as per MotorTrend and other sources) that the show car simply points at future releases of parts and accessories for the S2000 and nothing more. They haven't committed to building a new S2000.

just like with the nsx. Knowing the past helps for predicting the future (of hideous aftermarket parts no one cares about).

edit: As for s2000's price, people that haven't tried one think it is a manly miata or at most a miata on steroids, but at release date it was a better car on every single aspect than a porsche boxster (but without the grunt and the badge). It's a new classic that's one of those rare cases in which used common cars started to appreciate after a year or two they went out of production.

 

[homeforsummer]

but at release date it was a better car on every single aspect than a porsche boxster (but without the grunt and the badge)

Highly, highly debatable. At launch it was criticised for being snappy and having poor steering feel, at least in the tests I read at the time. It was also criticised in some quarters for being a little breathless unless you were really going for it, as you've alluded to.

Of car mags I own from the S2000's launch pitting it against the Boxster, the S2K won very few tests.

I'm sure the S2000 is an excellent car, but as with many Japanese cars its Internet reputation seems greatly inflated next to its reception at launch.

Though also like many Japanese cars, it doesn't take many modifications to turn it into something genuinely special.

 

[avens]

The boxster of that time wasn't *that* great in comparison to the current one, which I've been told is superb, and I implied on the last page that the s2000 is overrated (overseas price is simply absurd). Anyway on that particular segment and body type it's almost impossible to be objective, and I'm not.

 

[homeforsummer]

Anyway on that particular segment and body type it's almost impossible to be objective

My job disagrees with you.

 

[Kent]

Job does but all of us are subject to to being subjective.

That said, according to BM back to back test of the 2.0 v. 2.2 the early model lacked toque and while good handling was present the steering and front-end responsiveness were overly hyper because of front end suspension settings to prevent nose dive under braking.

None the less an incredible car.

 

[homeforsummer]

Oh absolutely. Subjectivity is a huge part of car reviewing. But then so is objectivity, and objectively the Boxster scores over the S2K in several areas.

And it certainly isn't impossible to be objective when comparing sports cars. Difficult, but not impossible!

 

[Kent]

Nothing is impossible and Im sure year to year comparisons show the Porsche on top but I still feel like automotive journalism has heavy bias in general. The s2k is a good example just like the brz. Some of us (and most of the journalist) are enthusiastic enough to experience the intagible euphoria of seat time in a good car and manage to overlook shortcomings or previous criticisms that could appy.
Good examples are often found on interiors when a car's performance or feel exceed its value as a purchase price.

 

[homeforsummer]

Nothing is impossible and Im sure year to year comparisons show the Porsche on top but I still feel like automotive journalism has heavy bias in general.

It depends where you're getting your news. The one that always amuses me is the British media being accused of being too pro-British when it comes to cars - giving Jaguars high scoring reviews, etc.

And yet, almost every month in one British mag or another you'll get a letter saying "Oh, great, another Porsche/BMW/Audi wins a group test, what's with the German bias?..."

In other words, you can never really win. People are gonna accuse someone of bias whatever way the results of a test sway.

With Boxster vs. S2000, you've got a situation where most of the mags, comparing the two back-to-back (a situation most car buyers simply don't do - and why group tests in magazines are often a bit pointless from a consumer perspective, even if they make good reading), prefer the Boxster.

In internet land, the S2000 gets lots of praise, possibly because it's more technically exciting (and has great modification potential) even if it doesn't have that nth degree of something (balance, steering feel, badge kudos) that allowed it to beat the Boxster back when the two were both on sale together. In fairness to the S2K, it was always a hell of a lot cheaper.

 

[Nessy]

I remember reading reviews on the S2000 and Boxster years ago, and as good as the S2000 was (i owned an early 2003 for a short period of time.. revised suspension, heated rear glass), the Boxster always came out on top in reviews, the only bad thing i remember reading about the Boxster (general mid-engine issue), was gaining access to the engine if it required any major work to it (cost of labor).

[EDIT] having said that, Honda master technicians handy-work don't come cheap neither.

 

[Tornado]

The only magazine I can think of where the S2000 consistently won anything was Car and Driver, and even then I remember one test where it got destroyed because of various niggling problems.

 

[YSSMAN]

It made their 10 Best List for three years straight ('00-'03) and again in 2004. Not bad considering all of the competition thrown at it in the years that followed.

In terms of post-Miata roadsters, it is arguably the best since the Mazda. It's unfortunate that it didn't hold up long enough to get a second rendition. It's actually kinda interesting looking back in a "Where are they Now?" sort of way. While the MX-5 survives and wants to go back to it's roots, everyone else is either dead or have gone significantly up-market. The Z4 is a long distance away from where the Z3 started, practically a luxury GT at this point. It's nearly the same with the Boxster, although it's performance edge seems better-tuned and more-focused. The Solstice and Sky are forever gone, and I doubt GM is looking to play ball in that market again.

It's pretty clear that Mazda has the formula and has run away with it.

 

[homeforsummer]

Porsche has hinted on a few occasions that it might build something sub-Boxster, so perhaps the current car has some wiggle room as far as mission statement is concerned. It's a more expensive car now than it used to be, but if they're going to drop something 914-like underneath, that probably doesn't matter.

Mazda did the right thing by not letting the MX-5 creep too far upmarket. It's obviously a more comfortable car than it used to be but it's still one of the more basic sports cars on the market.

I'd like to think Honda could target it head-on with a future model, but Honda's challenge would actually be deviating too much from Mazda's formula without losing its appeal. There's a limit to how much they can innovate without landing the car uncomfortably above the Mazda, price-wise.

Of course, they could go high-tech again like they did with the S2K, but then it may once again find itself priced with the BMWs and Porsches, and there aren't many people who'd pay for a Honda at that price I suspect.

 

[RocZX]

Rumors of a S2000 successor

* rendering of the new S2000 coupe*

Honda is set for a massive transformation from sensible to sporty, and leading the revolution are three new sports cars, which include a spiritual successor to the S2000 and an all-new NSX.

Like the original Honda S2000, this mid-engined sports car – revealed in our exclusive image - is set to be a coupe rather than a convertible and it will sit in the middle of the three cars.

The Honda S660 with its three-cylinder turbo engine will sit below it, while the the hybrid Honda NSX will be the manufacturer's flagship performance model.

A Honda insider told us about a secret in-house meeting at Honda's Tochigi R&D centre in Japan to discuss the potential for this new mid-sized sports car, which would be part of the world’s first-ever mid-engined trio of sports cars from one manufacturer. From what we’ve heard, there’s a strong chance this new Honda S2000 will get the green light.

The Honda S2000 is similar in looks to the S660 and NSX, with all three cars getting sharp lines, a bold grille and narrow headlights giving them a character unlike any of Honda’s current models.

Hybrid tech to combine performance and economy
Under the skin of the new Honda S2000, we’ve been told to expect a revised version of the 2.0-litre 350bhp turbo engine, which will power the next generation Honda Civic Type R.

Some hybrid tech - developed in conjunction with the McLaren Formula 1 team - should also feature and it's set to allow for 0-62mph in around five seconds, but with an economy of around 40mpg.

Honda is looking at adding a simplified version of the all-wheel-drive petrol-electric system used in the NSX.

The mid-size Honda S2000 replacement will be the last of Honda's three new sports cars to arrive and it's expected to go on sale in 2017 for around £35,000.

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To me it seem more like it's a new MR2 rather then a S2000.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

The S2000 was a pure sports car. Naturally aspirated, RWD, fast enough to be fun but not too fast to be too remote. This sounds far more complex. Turbo, hybrid, AWD, 350 bhp. I frankly don't see it as being anything like the S2000. It's not a pure sports car like the S2000 was. It might be very good to drive, though.

 

[YSSMAN]

Tin-foil hat time:

What if Honda is spreading these kinds of rumors to see how interested the public is in newer, sporty models? Every single time this vague, seemingly baseless information comes around, the automotive press flips, and the kids go crazy. If I was a halfway intelligent person at Honda, I'd like to think that I'd have the idea to do something right the first time by just doing what worked so well before. Simple, light, fun-to-drive coupes (rear-drive or otherwise) that sell at a competitive premium compared to other Japanese entries. Why the hell not? If they're worried about development costs, its high time to reach out to other brands for help - fair guess that a lot of companies would jump at the chance to do so. Things like this build a case. That's what Toyota did with the GT-86, its what Nissan is doing with the IDx, and its what Honda is possibly doing here.

So, just do it.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Rumors of a S2000 successor

* rendering of the new S2000 coupe*




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To me it seem more like it's a new MR2 rather then a S2000.

Now that is one car that needs to come back.

 

[Tornado]

"The world’s first-ever mid-engined trio of sports cars from one manufacturer" apart from the 2 decades where Ferrari did exactly that, presumably.



I have to question the wisdom of cutting the legs of the NSX off that badly, though.

 

[DrPuppetwarrior]

Rumors of a S2000 successor

* rendering of the new S2000 coupe*




Auto Express



To me it seem more like it's a new MR2 rather then a S2000.

It seems like a mini nsx too

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

It made their 10 Best List for three years straight ('00-'03) and again in 2004. Not bad considering all of the competition thrown at it in the years that followed.

In terms of post-Miata roadsters, it is arguably the best since the Mazda. It's unfortunate that it didn't hold up long enough to get a second rendition. It's actually kinda interesting looking back in a "Where are they Now?" sort of way. While the MX-5 survives and wants to go back to it's roots, everyone else is either dead or have gone significantly up-market. The Z4 is a long distance away from where the Z3 started, practically a luxury GT at this point. It's nearly the same with the Boxster, although it's performance edge seems better-tuned and more-focused. The Solstice and Sky are forever gone, and I doubt GM is looking to play ball in that market again.

It's pretty clear that Mazda has the formula and has run away with it.

The MX-5's formula seems to be pricing. Nothing like it in that price range. Everything else was significantly more expensive (S2000, Boxster, Z3/4 etc).