Honda NSX no more... plus 5-6 pages on various industry-related topic

M5Power
Acura sold about six times that in 1996. Acura has dried up sales on one of the most effective designs ever due to their own poor marketing. The thing deserves to die - Acura couldn't have played it any worse.

When was the last time you saw an exotic on a TV commerical? Acura doesn't have to sell NSX to soccer moms or your grandpa. Consider its price tag and lacking V8-power NSX is actually doing pretty good in the US. (I didn't say NSX isn't outdated.)

Plus, NSX sells for much less $ in the US market compare to the others. (Canada, UK, HK, Aus/NZ etc.)

Oh yea, in 1996 they sold 505 NSXs in the US. The volume of NSX has always been that low.

Labor cost and the aluminum unit body are the 2 reasons why NSX is expensive.
 
Actually I can;t tell you the last time I saw and Acura commercial in general. Honda would be smart to kill the line and just take the decent cars, then rebadge them as Honda's.

RSX could be the Integera like it should be, the other models could take their Japanese counterparts names.
 
BlazinXtreme
Actually I can;t tell you the last time I saw and Acura commercial in general. Honda would be smart to kill the line and just take the decent cars, then rebadge them as Honda's.

RSX could be the Integera like it should be, the other models could take their Japanese counterparts names.

Well I guess I spend more time on TV than you do. I saw a lot of Acura commericals, especially the TL ones. (And they made lots of money from the TL and MDX line too, thats why they don't need to make NSX into a profitable model.)

But why kill the line when they break selling record year after year? I heard they are going to lanuch Acura world-wide with the next NSX too.

I am pretty sure the next NSX won't make any $ for Honda/Acura in the future, even with the v10. After all, its just an image car for them. (But they need the performance image.)
 
Oh I watch quite a bit of TV, I do live in Michigan...but that means I should see more car commericals from other markets besides the big three. I rarely see GM, Ford, and DCX commercials on local stations.

And why kill the line? There really isn't a need for it is there? Just like Ford doesn't need Mercury and Lincoln and GM didn't need Oldsmobile and Caddy...hence why olds was murdered.
 
BlazinXtreme
And why kill the line? There really isn't a need for it is there? Just like Ford doesn't need Mercury and Lincoln and GM didn't need Oldsmobile and Caddy...hence why olds was murdered.

Why these luxury brands exist? My guess is: In order to compete with the German brands such as Audi, Bimmer and MB. These fake names are still necessary to those normal, non-car crazy people who knows nothing about cars.
 
Why would they promote a car that

A)doesnt have any volume
B)doesnt need to be advertised when automags test out it's updates and provide large comparos for it and other semi super cars.

Its the same reason you don't see any ads(specificly/solo) for evo's, sti's or vettes. The one exception being the ford GT which is being used as a "marque" or "pride" car in ads.
 
Why these luxury brands exist? My guess is: In order to compete with the German brands such as Audi, Bimmer and MB. These fake names are still necessary to those normal, non-car crazy people who knows nothing about cars.

Right, and what brand do you think an average knows nothing about cars person would recognize? Honda or Acura? My guess Honda since Honda makes everything. People know Cadilliac, people know Audi, people know BMW...but ask an average knows nothing about car person if they know what Infiniti or Lexus is and they more then likely won't know. They aren't house hold words like Cadilliac.

Japan sucks at marketing luxery cars in America.

Why would they promote a car that

A)doesnt have any volume
B)doesnt need to be advertised when automags test out it's updates and provide large comparos for it and other semi super cars.

Its the same reason you don't see any ads(specificly/solo) for evo's, sti's or vettes. The one exception being the ford GT which is being used as a "marque" or "pride" car in ads.

I get Road & Track, Car and Driver, AutoWeek, and MotoTrend. I don't remember the last time they tested an NSX. Actually any Acura for that matter....err wait I can remember the TSX a few months ago.

Also there are commericals for the Vette but the Corvette is one of the most well known icons in the world.
 
BlazinXtreme
I get Road & Track, Car and Driver, AutoWeek, and MotoTrend. I don't remember the last time they tested an NSX. Actually any Acura for that matter....err wait I can remember the TSX a few months ago.

Also there are commericals for the Vette but the Corvette is one of the most well known icons in the world.

The last update (must of been 01 or something) I remember autoweek buzzing about it. But either way it is an enthusiast car, if a person isn't in to the automotive seen enough to already know what it is, they probably wouldn't enjoy it to begin with.
 
I'm sure one of the magazines tested the new style when it came out in what? 2004?

I wouldn't call it an enthusiast car, its more of a poor mans Ferrari owned by young dentist who want to get noticed at expensive night clubs (the only time I see them...well see one). Any car enthusiast who wanted an unpractical, MR, 2 seat car...they would buy an Elise which is cheaper and preforms better. Not to mention it looks better.
 
BlazinXtreme
Japan sucks at marketing luxery cars in America.

I agree that Caddy is a household name in the states, but I still can't see any reason for names like Acura, Lexus and Infiniti to be killed becasue "Japanese people just can't market them". All 3 brands are having their best years ever since entering the 21st century.

Competition isn't a bad thing, right?
 
Well considering there main focus is the United States with the lux brands they really should learn how to market them better. If you don't get the car out there then who will notice it and possibly buy it? The only company I see kind of market there cars it Lexus and that's just the new GS car.

There isn't a need for an American specific lux brand from the Japanese, there cars do fine in the states with out creating a new brand. Then you have Toyota that created both a lux car brand, and a crappy car brand (Scion). They either need to figure out how to market there upper brands or they are going to get owned by Caddy in the States. Toyota markets the hell out of the Scion, but neglects Lexus for whatever reason. Nissan just doesn't market its vehicles, and Honda doesn't bother with Acura. Hell I've seen more Hyudia commericals showing off there wannabe lux models.
 
MSZ
When was the last time you saw an exotic on a TV commerical?

Well, Ford put the GT40 in its TV commercials for the same reason Acura should've used the NSX, and by the same token Chrysler used to advertise the Prowler and Nissan advertises the 350Z. Do you know what an image car is? The NSX was a perfect image car for a rising performance brand, but Acura completely blew the marketing. It was a total disaster.

I honestly believe you guys - reading through the other posts here - don't have any idea about brand image. One of the more intelligent members here, xcsti, writes:

xcsti
Why would they promote a car that

A)doesnt have any volume
B)doesnt need to be advertised when automags test out it's updates and provide large comparos for it and other semi super cars.

Folks, come on. We aren't advertising the NSX to sell the NSX, we're advertising the NSX to sell the BRAND. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. Jeez.
 
M5Power
Well, Ford put the GT40 in its TV commercials for the same reason Acura should've used the NSX, and by the same token Chrysler used to advertise the Prowler and Nissan advertises the 350Z. Do you know what an image car is? The NSX was a perfect image car for a rising performance brand, but Acura completely blew the marketing. It was a total disaster.

I honestly believe you guys - reading through the other posts here - don't have any idea about brand image. One of the more intelligent members here, xcsti, writes:



Folks, come on. We aren't advertising the NSX to sell the NSX, we're advertising the NSX to sell the BRAND. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. Jeez.

First of all, Ford is in a position right now that Honda outsells them in everything. So they HAVE to promote the GT. But I don't think it is working. I don't see Ferrari advertises the Enzo and Porsche did the same to Carrera GT either.

Did you read their financial results for the 2nd quarter? Most of their earnings came from the Ford Financial Services. Jesus freaking christ aren't they in the same boat as Mitsubishi, who have gave them all to promote their Fugly new Eclipse?

The same Honda we are talking about, is JUST a 3rd largest automaker in Japan, they clearly didn't have enough resources to update and promote NSX before. But I won't say its a complete collapse or disaster, as I said before consider its price tag, low HP and lack of media coverage, 210 yearly isn't really a bad number at all.

But since they are heading to a right direction now(much more financial healthy = more resources), they will make the next NSX right and get all kind of attention from the auto world.
 
M5Power
Well, Ford put the GT40 in its TV commercials for the same reason Acura should've used the NSX, and by the same token Chrysler used to advertise the Prowler and Nissan advertises the 350Z. Do you know what an image car is? The NSX was a perfect image car for a rising performance brand, but Acura completely blew the marketing. It was a total disaster.
Really? I thought the NSX did its' job really well. Super expensive (semi)exotic sports car in the lineup did give Acura an more premium brand image, as long as you don't focus too much on the "performance brand" thing. I have seen NSX in Acura commercials, I even saw one this year. And everybody(guys) knew Acura had NSX in the lineup, so I don't know how Acura "blew" the marketing. It was one of the most hyped exotics IMO.

If anything, NSX served as an image car for both Honda and Acura, very successfully. I think Honda/Acura did real well with NSX as the "image" car.
 
MSZ
First of all, Ford is in a position right now that Honda outsells them in everything. So they HAVE to promote the GT. But I don't think it is working. I don't see Ferrari advertises the Enzo and Porsche did the same to Carrera GT either.

Ugh. You completely missed my point. I don't think you read a single word I had to say. Forget you.

a6m5
Really? I thought the NSX did its' job really well. Super expensive (semi)exotic sports car in the lineup did give Acura an more premium brand image, as long as you don't focus too much on the "performance brand" thing. I have seen NSX in Acura commercials, I even saw one this year. And everybody(guys) knew Acura had NSX in the lineup, so I don't know how Acura "blew" the marketing. It was one of the most hyped exotics IMO.

They simply didn't advertise the vehicle, ever. I don't know what commercial you saw with an NSX in it, but I tend to strongly doubt that. You hear it hyped because everyone on the forums talks about it, but the point of an image car is to give the brand's image a boost among people who might not otherwise look at it. You see an NSX on the street, you think "Acura's pretty cool." You see an NSX in an ad, you think "Acura's pretty cool." They should've built more and they should've advertised it more, too. If you already knew about the NSX, you were already in Acura's target market.
 
M5Power
Ugh. You completely missed my point. I don't think you read a single word I had to say. Forget you.

You didn't read anything I said either. They don't need to promote NSX to sell a brand because:

Honda and Acura combined have sold 1,394,398 cars in 2004 and made it the 11th consecutive annual sales increase.

Other than Toyota no other import brand has ever came close.

Michigan = dream land? :odd:
 
MSZ
You didn't read anything I said either. They don't need to promote NSX to sell a brand because:

Ugh. You still don't get it. I'll walk you through it.

Me: What is the aim of the Acura brand?
You: Dur...
Me: Performance.
You: Who?
Me: Acura tries to sell cars on a performance motif. The NSX is a superb performance car. Had Acura shown people that in fact they were capable of making and actually did make a semi-supercar, they could've attracted a lot more buyers to the lower echelons. Remember, Ford advertises the GT to sell Mustangs.
You: But they already sell so many cars!
Me: Honda is doing fine, they're completely separate from this discussion. Acura wasn't several years ago. In fact, I read a review (2004) of the president of Acura who stated outright that in the late-90s Acura had simply lost its way, and they were still trying to regain their image. The best way to regain image is to sell an image car. Audi's image was nothing in the late-90s when they decided to sell the TT. That car alone put them back on the map. Advertising the NSX could've helped Acura gain some prestige.
You: Aw shucks. You're the best!
Me: Yes.

That's how I envision our discussion going.

The fundamental point you're missing (aside from quoting combined Honda-Acura sales figures which I think we both know is bogus) is that Acura would be advertising the NSX for two purposes: to sell RSXs, and to tell people that Acura is a major player in the performance car industry.
 
M5Power
They simply didn't advertise the vehicle, ever. I don't know what commercial you saw with an NSX in it, but I tend to strongly doubt that. You hear it hyped because everyone on the forums talks about it, but the point of an image car is to give the brand's image a boost among people who might not otherwise look at it. You see an NSX on the street, you think "Acura's pretty cool." You see an NSX in an ad, you think "Acura's pretty cool." They should've built more and they should've advertised it more, too. If you already knew about the NSX, you were already in Acura's target market.
I have seen NSXs in Acura commercials, but no, they weren't trying to sell the NSX in those CMs. It was like 2, 3 seconds of NSX, then to rest of the Acura brand lineups.

OK, forget the TV commercials I saw. When I said Acura was most "hyped", I'm talking about since the launch of the vehicle, even before people were on the internet. I doubt if Honda had anything to do with them, but the media created a huge hype for NSX, and for good reason. Since the debut in the late 80's to most of the 90's, it was very highly regarded sports car. There were plenty of free NSX advertising done by car magazines, and if Honda determined that they didn't need to spend their own money for an overkill on advertising, it makes perfect sense to me. The point of advertising is to get consumers/people to notice your product(s). It was already done, many times over.

On if Honda/Acura should have mass produced NSX, I'm no expert, but you're probably right. They could've sold them a lot cheaper, probably around $50,000(guesstimate) and even cheaper in '89 to early 90's(I think, NSX cost only about $60,000 at launch). And I think we all agree that NSX's achilles' heel, even more than the lack of horsepower was the super high price tag. And yes, I think you're 100% right when you say more people see NSX on the street, more it helps with selling rest of the Honda/Acura brand. One merit I do see on Honda's decision to be real an@l about the exclusivity(I hope that's a real word) of the NSX is that, it did establish Honda(or Acura in U.S.) as more premium automobile manufacturer. A (HUGE)jump they definitely needed from just a unique, commute car manufacturer.
 
M5Power
Ugh. You still don't get it. I'll walk you through it.

Me: What is the aim of the Acura brand?
You: Dur...
Me: Performance.
You: Who?
Me: Acura tries to sell cars on a performance motif. The NSX is a superb performance car. Had Acura shown people that in fact they were capable of making and actually did make a semi-supercar, they could've attracted a lot more buyers to the lower echelons. Remember, Ford advertises the GT to sell Mustangs.
You: But they already sell so many cars!
Me: Honda is doing fine, they're completely separate from this discussion. Acura wasn't several years ago. In fact, I read a review (2004) of the president of Acura who stated outright that in the late-90s Acura had simply lost its way, and they were still trying to regain their image. The best way to regain image is to sell an image car. Audi's image was nothing in the late-90s when they decided to sell the TT. That car alone put them back on the map. Advertising the NSX could've helped Acura gain some prestige.
You: Aw shucks. You're the best!
Me: Yes.

That's how I envision our discussion going.

The fundamental point you're missing (aside from quoting combined Honda-Acura sales figures which I think we both know is bogus) is that Acura would be advertising the NSX for two purposes: to sell RSXs, and to tell people that Acura is a major player in the performance car industry.
:lol:

I don't know about Acura trying to sell, strictly on "performance" though. To me, Acura has always been about the Legend and Integra. Excellent cash cows.

Honda didn't build NSX for Acura. Honda felt they needed to do something with what they have learned in their Formula One glory in the late 80's. Way they dominated was something else, and I have a feeling Honda wanted to dedicate the F-1 success to a very special sports car, which ended up as NSX. I strongly believe that only reason NSX ended up as an Acura in the U.S. was due to the high price tag. They couldn't justify selling $60,000(in the 80's) vehicle with Honda badges on them, so they went with Acura.
 
You want real numbers?

Acura in 2004: 198,919
BMW: 296,111
Lexus: 287,927
Infiniti: 130,986
Audi: 77,917

You think Acura is doing bad? What kind of world you are living now?

Since we won't see another NSX comes out of the factory until 2009, you would think Acura will be in huge trouble right? Wake up man, the sales of Acura have past most of the luxury brands(except the big 3 MB, bimmer and Lexus) and it still keep getting up without promoting the NSX.

Yes the people don't have a clue of what a NSX is but WTF the brand is still selling.

Honda now have the money from these people and they are going to put the resources into the new NSX project. And then they can advertise it in full scale to boost the image. This is how you run a small car company and make it grow.

I am just glad that you aren't part of the business. M5
 
a6m5
I think, NSX cost only about $60,000 at launch

I called bull**** on that in my head and immediately looked it up. Indeed, the 1991 Acura NSX cost just $64600 at launch. Lord knows how they justify charging $15000 more fifteen years later with the same body and engine.

A (HUGE)jump they definitely needed from just a unique, commute car manufacturer.

I'm not sure about that - I think anyone who knows about the NSX already has their mind made up about Honda as a brand.

I don't know about Acura trying to sell, strictly on "performance" though. To me, Acura has always been about the Legend and Integra. Excellent cash cows.

Acura is now turning to performance - same article. Like Cadillac, they've realized the real money is in well-built, well-styled cars with good acceleration and handling. They've cut cars that don't sell (CL) and have done great redesigns (99-03 TL -> 04-_ TL) to focus the brand back onto performance. Acura got screwed in the mid-90s when they decided to focus on making money by selling luxury and a brand name. They had a tremendous run of bad luck then: they redesigned the super-popular 91-95 Legend into the 96 RL, which flopped from launch. The unpopular Vigor became the 96-98 TL which also flopped. And the 96-99 SLX was released just as its twin, the Isuzu Trooper, was deemed unsafe by Consumer Reports for its awful design. The 97 CL debuted to major journalist complaints. They were left with the Integra, which didn't really fit into their game plan, and shrinking profits. Then the performance thing started.

I agree that the NSX was sold as an Acura because they couldn't justify selling at a Honda, although I think had Acura never been created, it would have been sold as a Honda - it was opportunity more than intent.
 
MSZ
You want real numbers?

Acura in 2004: 198,919
BMW: 296,111
Lexus: 287,927
Infiniti: 130,986
Audi: 77,917

You think Acura is doing bad? What kind of world you are living now?

NOT NOW

Christ. I never said they were doing badly in 2004. I said "HAD THEY ADVERTISED THE NSX THEY COULD'VE ATTRACTED MORE BUYERS." I said this no fewer than THREE ways in my last post. This discussion is completely absurd. You never bothered to read a single ****ing word I said. You're arguing against a point I'm not making.

I'm going to go ahead and talk to an intellgent GTP member in a6m5 and you can keep rebutting to my posts without reading them. :rolleyes: You've cracked my 'five least-favorite GTP members' list, and you're less than 50 posts in.

Tip: using good grammar doesn't make you smart.
 
M5Power
I called bull**** on that in my head and immediately looked it up. Indeed, the 1991 Acura NSX cost just $64600 at launch. Lord knows how they justify charging $15000 more fifteen years later with the same body and engine.
Isn't NSX more like $90,000? I thought it was $25,000 more.... which is even more ridiculous.

M5Power
Acura is now turning to performance - same article. Like Cadillac, they've realized the real money is in well-built, well-styled cars with good acceleration and handling. They've cut cars that don't sell (CL) and have done great redesigns (99-03 TL -> 04-_ TL) to focus the brand back onto performance. Acura got screwed in the mid-90s when they decided to focus on making money by selling luxury and a brand name. They had a tremendous run of bad luck then: they redesigned the super-popular 91-95 Legend into the 96 RL, which flopped from launch. The unpopular Vigor became the 96-98 TL which also flopped. And the 96-99 SLX was released just as its twin, the Isuzu Trooper, was deemed unsafe by Consumer Reports for its awful design. The 97 CL debuted to major journalist complaints. They were left with the Integra, which didn't really fit into their game plan, and shrinking profits. Then the performance thing started.
OK. When you mentioned the Cadillac name, I understood you, instantly. 👍 RL was one of the most boring looking car around. I hope they fired whoever designed it. :D

P.S. I call RL, "Earl". Little joke from Car and Driver, when RL first came out.

Edit:
M5Power
I'm going to go ahead and talk to an intellgent GTP member in a6m5 and you can keep rebutting to my posts without reading them.


Somebody call the news paper! Me and intelligent in the same sentence!! :P
 
a6m5
Isn't NSX more like $90,000? I thought it was $25,000 more.... which is even more ridiculous.

$89000 exactly. I posted that knowing that, too. What you saw there was some creative addition. :D
 
M5Power

Ok it was my fault, I didn't read your last post while I was typing mine.

But you still don't have a goddamn idea of why Honda didn't spent a penny on NSX advertisment/development in the past.

You are not worth it, I am done with this thread.
 
Honda didn't spend money on Acura because like I said Japanese car companies suck at marketing...the only ones who sorta got it is Toyota and they neglect their lux brand. But I guess its pointless to tell you since I've told you 2 or 3 other times.
 
a6m5
I have seen NSXs in Acura commercials, but no, they weren't trying to sell the NSX in those CMs. It was like 2, 3 seconds of NSX, then to rest of the Acura brand lineups.

OK, forget the TV commercials I saw. When I said Acura was most "hyped", I'm talking about since the launch of the vehicle, even before people were on the internet. I doubt if Honda had anything to do with them, but the media created a huge hype for NSX, and for good reason. Since the debut in the late 80's to most of the 90's, it was very highly regarded sports car. There were plenty of free NSX advertising done by car magazines, and if Honda determined that they didn't need to spend their own money for an overkill on advertising, it makes perfect sense to me. The point of advertising is to get consumers/people to notice your product(s). It was already done, many times over.

On if Honda/Acura should have mass produced NSX, I'm no expert, but you're probably right. They could've sold them a lot cheaper, probably around $50,000(guesstimate) and even cheaper in '89 to early 90's(I think, NSX cost only about $60,000 at launch). And I think we all agree that NSX's achilles' heel, even more than the lack of horsepower was the super high price tag. And yes, I think you're 100% right when you say more people see NSX on the street, more it helps with selling rest of the Honda/Acura brand. One merit I do see on Honda's decision to be real an@l about the exclusivity(I hope that's a real word) of the NSX is that, it did establish Honda(or Acura in U.S.) as more premium automobile manufacturer. A (HUGE)jump they definitely needed from just a unique, commute car manufacturer.
IN 1990, NSXs were $50,000. Hard to believe in a decade, the price rose up over $30,000.
 
McLaren F1GTR
IN 1990, NSXs were $50,000. Hard to believe in a decade, the price rose up over $30,000.
Holy cow. It was that much cheaper back then. That reminds me of Lexus LS400. I think they started at only $35,000 when it launched.

BlazinXtreme
Honda didn't spend money on Acura because like I said Japanese car companies suck at marketing...the only ones who sorta got it is Toyota and they neglect their lux brand. But I guess its pointless to tell you since I've told you 2 or 3 other times.
What! I hate you! zoom zoom's my favorite commercials. And no, I don't want to hear how Mazda's part of Ford. :P
 

Latest Posts

Back