Honda to quit F1? - Now with added Brawn GP

[Metar]

YES! Sorry, I don't see why batteries are being used for KERS at all. So much energy would be goin into manufacturing them and their life is probably quite limited.

Now flywheels, get one of those carbonfibre things spinning and you've got yourself some good stuff, in my opinion. Bearings might be an issue as it'll need alot of RPM but that's not something F1 has ever had a problem with.

A lot of RPM? That's right. How does 40,000RPM sound?

Carbon fibre isn't suitable - they need dense metals to make the radius as small as possible, causing as little gyroscopic disturbance as possible:

Rotational Energy: E = w^2 * m * r^2 - so halving the radius is better than halving the mass.

Williams also developed a flywheel system but aren't using it straight away.

All the rest of the teams have gone the electric route.

Williams' flywheel is an electronically-transmitted system: The energy is picked up via an electric generator, transferred to the flywheel which gets spun up by another motor, and then the other way around. Honda's was purely-mechanical.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I take it Brawn don't have access to the Honda KERS system as they are supposed to get the McLaren or Mercedes version?

It's a bit odd though as I assume that it was developed specifically for the car before it was renamed.

 

[Ardius]

I take it Brawn don't have access to the Honda KERS system as they are supposed to get the McLaren or Mercedes version?

It's a bit odd though as I assume that it was developed specifically for the car before it was renamed.

No, they do have access to the Honda KERS system, what made you think they were getting the McLaren one? McLaren have an electronic system that wouldn't be possible to even fit in the BGP.....hence us pointing out why the BGP is noticably faster?

As far as I can see, McLaren have no hand in the BGP deal...it's Mercedes, and even then, its only engines. Not gearbox (because, clearly, the Honda one is far superior) and not KERS.

The only thing I can see that Brawn didn't get off Honda is their engines, and we all know why that is.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That's funny, I seem to recall Metar saying they would get the Mercedes KERS unit. Though given my track run of late, I wouldn't be surprised if I'd messed that one up, too.

 

[Tired Tyres]

That's funny, I seem to recall Metar saying they would get the Mercedes KERS unit. Though given my track run of late, I wouldn't be surprised if I'd messed that one up, too.

That's what I was thinking in my post. I've not heard anything about the Honda KERS unit being available to Brawn. Perhaps the team hasn't mentioned it because they are running without KERS for the first few races?

 

[Ardius]

That's what I was thinking in my post. I've not heard anything about the Honda KERS unit being available to Brawn. Perhaps the team hasn't mentioned it because they are running without KERS for the first few races?

I think the team has mentioned it, Barrichello has mentioned they aren't using it for the first few races and that he isn't sure they will ever use it.
To be fair, its not really a Honda KERS unit, as it was developed in co-operation with another company (can't remember the name) full of ex-Renault/Benetton staff.

I'm guessing they are still weighing up whether it will be actually worth using it, especially seeing as they've put in such fast times without it.
It will certainly make an interesting race, KERS vs. non-KERS, almost like the Turbo vs. N/A era.

 

[ExigeEvan]

A lot of RPM? That's right. How does 40,000RPM sound?

Carbon fibre isn't suitable - they need dense metals to make the radius as small as possible, causing as little gyroscopic disturbance as possible:

Rotational Energy: E = w^2 * m * r^2 - so halving the radius is better than halving the mass.

I know a more than basics about flywheels

The benefits of a CF flywheel come in 2 forms. One, overall reduced weight, and 2, failure properties.

If a carbon fibre flywheel fails it basically delaminates and turns into a giant brush. If a solid, steel/magnesium/alloy flywheel breaks then 3 approximatley equal parts are going to make an exit really goddamn fast. Now I can't see how having a heavy flywheel coupled with a heavy containment system is going to benefit that of a CF, it it's viable with the rev load required.

And this, apart from the F1 relevance came from an interview I had at Southampton university where I sat with a CF flywheel in my hand thinking "what the hell".

 

[Alex.]

At snetterton the other day a car's flywheel went, through the bonnet and got stuck in the bridge

 

[Metar]

But the flywheel too the wheels and the flywheel(s) in the KERS system serve two different purposes - one has to be light for good response, while the other has to be as massive as possible (preferably while remaining relatively light) in order to store energy...

 

[Alex.]

Yeah I do realise the differences, we were on the subject of flywheels and I felt I could mention it

 

[Sureboss]

At snetterton the other day a car's flywheel went, through the bonnet and got stuck in the bridge

I thought most motorsport regulations meant cars had to have a "diaper" (as it's called in drag racing) to stop this from happening?

 

[Alex.]

I'm not sure what car it was, I just heard about it happening so maybe it was a modified road car on a track day or something.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Jerez test laps & times at 15:10 CET

1. Barrichello: 1:18.398 and 62 laps
2. Button: 1:19.244 and 7 laps
3. Alonso: 1:19.334 and 67 laps
4. Hamilton: 1:19.513 and 49 laps
5. Rosberg: 1:19.783 and 102 laps

Barrichello has finished for the day and Button is already faster than anybody else

Button will now drive the car for the rest of the day and all of tomorrow.

 

[Metar]

Button's car stopped on the track (after setting a 1'18.9). Note that Rubens' time is just 0.06s slower than Senna's pole record of 1'18.3

 

[Tired Tyres]

Latest times from Jerez. Button and Rosberg inside the old lap record.

1. Button 1: 17,844 (33 laps)
2. Rosberg 1: 18,071 (28 laps)
3. Hamilton 1: 19,144 (29 laps)
4. Piquet 1: 19,750 (36 laps)

 

[Metar]

The whole track was just faster today, though. Most teams improved quite linearly.

Pos. Driver Team Tires Time Laps
1 J. Button Brawn GP Bridgestone 01:17.844 114
2 N. Rosberg Williams Bridgestone 01:18.071 66
3 N. Piquet jr. Renault Bridgestone 01:18.382 133
4 L. Hamilton McLaren Bridgestone 01:19.121 121

 

[PeterJB]

Well, except McLaren!

 

[Metar]

As in, their times compared to yesterday. They improved on those times, too, so we can only assume the track was faster today.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So ... in what, eight days of testing, Brawn GP have been at the top for five or six of them, and whn they haven't set th fastest time they've been second or third? Just trying to get my head around that ...

 

[Ardius]

Uh oh (again lol):

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/regulations/Pages/FIAFormulaOneWorldChampionship.aspx

ARTICLE 3 : BODYWORK AND DIMENSIONS

(Ammemndment 18/03/09 (Mav)):

One of the purposes of the regulations under Article 3 below is to minimize the detrimental effect that the wake of
a car may have on a following car.
Furthermore, infinite precision can be assumed on certain dimensions provided it is clear that such an assumption
is not being made in order to circumvent or subvert the intention of the relevant regulation.

FIA have banned the Brawn diffusers.....

Does anyone else find this pretty dumb considering how close we are to the start of the season and how costs are supposedly being cut?

 

[Bram Turismo]

Rules comply to everyone, but I could see a heavy discussion of BrawnGP on the Toyota/Williams diffusers coming from this. I expected something to be banned on the BrawnGP car. Actually, I think that car is so well designed, that rules didn't foresee their kind of parts...

 

[ASH32]

Come on, things are either legal or illegal, there should be no grey areas, things should be black or white. If the rules are not clear then the rules are wrong and the people responsible for the rules are the ones to blame, if you can't decide whether something is illegal or not then something has got to be wrong. Rules for anything shouldn't be open to interpretation and if they are then the FIA have got to take full responsibility. It's their mess and they better fix it, the sooner the better. You can't have things like this going on so close to the beginning of the season or the season will be ruined before it's even begun.👎 Well done the FIA

 

[ExigeEvan]

Wow, talk about cutting budgets and then making a huge part of research null and void. Congrats FIA!

 

[Tired Tyres]

Uh oh (again lol):

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/regulations/Pages/FIAFormulaOneWorldChampionship.aspx

ARTICLE 3 : BODYWORK AND DIMENSIONS

(Ammemndment 18/03/09 (Mav)):

One of the purposes of the regulations under Article 3 below is to minimize the detrimental effect that the wake of
a car may have on a following car.
Furthermore, infinite precision can be assumed on certain dimensions provided it is clear that such an assumption
is not being made in order to circumvent or subvert the intention of the relevant regulation.

FIA have banned the Brawn diffusers.....

Does anyone else find this pretty dumb considering how close we are to the start of the season and how costs are supposedly being cut?

What are they putting in the water at the FIA? Is it legal or does the Interpol drugs squad need to be informed?

If I was Brawn I'd pull out of this season now.

It is farcical to try and legislate against someone being cleverer that the rest. That is the entire point of Formula 1

How can it be legal to publish the 2009 regulations on the 5th of February 2009 and then change them on the 17th of March 2009 Nine whole days before the first event?

 

[ASH32]

Like I said, it's not so much the FIA not liking Brawn being cleverer than the rest, more so that Brawn has outsmarted them. Now it's obvious that they ( the FIA ) are to blame, for not forseeing this, but they won't punnish themselves, so Brawn are punished. It's not fair, but the FIA have acted like this before and this certainly won't be the last time.

 

[J-PaP]

I am infuriated hearing this. What's the bet this never would have happened if BGP just sandbagged till Melbourne.

 

[ASH32]

I am infuriated hearing this. What's the bet this never would have happened if BGP just sandbagged till Melbourne.

No I don't agree with that, if they turned up at Melbourne and won or got on the podium, they would have been DQ'd, I am almost certain of that.

 

[Ardius]

I am infuriated hearing this. What's the bet this never would have happened if BGP just sandbagged till Melbourne.

It would have just happened later, lets face it, the FIA have done this all the time, changing rules on the fly.
However, the close-ness to the start of the season is a bit rediculous, especially with the ban on in-season testing.

Also, keep in mind this rule ammendment also applies to Williams and Toyota.

Is it me, or does it just seem like they are trying to split FOTA again? Because this is no doubt going to cause a rift between the teams that did and did not use this loophole in the rules.

Oh, and for clarification, heres the ammendment that causes the issue:
3.12.7
No bodywork which is visible from beneath the car and which lies between the rear wheel centre line and a
point 350mm rearward of it may be more than 175mm above the reference plane. Any intersection of the surfaces in this area with a lateral or longitudinal vertical plane should form one continuous line which is visible from beneath the car. A single break in the surface is permitted solely to allow the minimum required access for the device referred to in Article 5.15.Additionally, any bodywork in this area must produce uniform, solid, hard, continuous, rigid (no degree of freedom in relation to the body/chassis unit), impervious surfaces under all circumstances.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Yes the FIA are trying to drive FOTA apart. They don't like all the teams speaking as one. Max & Bernie used to be in charge of FOCA which was the teams organised together. They took over at the FIA because of the power FOCA offered them. That's why they got rid of FOCA then, and they are trying to get rid of FOTA now.

 

[ASH32]

Also the ban on in-season testing has to be the most stupid new rule, what happens if a driver can't race one week, there is no way a test driver could just jump into a car with no practice and be competitive, it's unfair and it's dangerous. Mind you knowing the FIA there's probably a loop-hole which allows some testing.