How in the Frank Bruno did Forza III do it?

[JDMKING13]

I think that's what most of us are actually doing. Some of us are really unhappy with the limited and probably cockpitless Standard Cars, but I still think Kaz might be throwing us some unexpected curves on them. With all things GT, we'll see.

T don't count them cockpits out yet bro 👍

 

[Akira AC]

But to be fair

Forza=Gran turismo Rip off

seriously the idea got such a mayor success that it was copy by the company who try to make profit of everything,sure the xbox GT counterpart had to be good but is not match for the original that is my point of view.

BTW: I had Forza 3 and trust me they make you PAY for all the cars that should be in the stock game in the first place,like

-458,599xx,430 scuderia(can you believe it)
-lambo superleggera(not even the newer one that came out the old one)
-all the new astons
-the new zondas(not the ones that came along in 2009,the ones from 2005 and 2007)

and forza fans will say 200 premium cars for you but is way better than 400 cars,pay for the rest and all of them being half asset, with worst engine and fewer tracks(I man common they say like 80 variations but they count the nurburgring as stages and they make like 8 tracks out of it, ridiculous)

 

[SrRd RacinG]

Does anybody have a decent picture of the GT PSP cockpit?

 

[Conquerer]

 

[Tenacious D]

T don't count them cockpits out yet bro 👍

Hey, I'm deffo not throwing any fits over it, brah.

I guess I could clarify a bit what I thought was really not good about Forza 3.

• The file handling issue: have more than 120 or so objects of a certain type like decals, photos, liveries or whatever, and the 360 chugs through them slowly. And believe me, if you like making race cars, you're going to have hundreds of decals.
• The photo handling system is the most horrible, wretched... ARRGH! thing ever. Save a replay. Open and watch for good moments, but the transport controls are a little rough. And for God's sake, don't take a pic of ANY car but yours, you won't like it. Snap some photos. Eventually you'll end up with more than 120, which causes the file chug issue. Pick up to 18, because that's all that your Storefront will hold. Open your PC browser to the forzamotorsports website and... see that your images are downscaled, fuzzied and the colors washed out. Save these 18 images to your PC, open a photo editor and hope to God you can manage to get things looking halfway like the originals. Save and upload to your photo sharing site. Be aware that this can literally take hours. I spent more than four hours on one series of pics and still wasn't done! This caused me to call it quits since November. Or spend up to $200 or so on an HD capture card for your PC, and skip a lot of headaches. Sadly, I just don't have that kind of throw away money right now.
• The sandbox style, free for all online racing system. Memo to Turn 10: do that again, and your fans will eat you.

My main beef is with the first two, but the online snafu is what people don't like about Prologue. I could add that whacked car models make livery editing a struggle with some surfaces on some cars. And... yeah, those tire sounds blow chunks, T10. You had decent sounds in Forza 1, just use those. I don't like the driver views either. The physics I can live with.

 

[Tornado]

Does anybody have a decent picture of the GT PSP cockpit?

 

[SrRd RacinG]

I guess it's not half bad.

I'm surprised KY hadn't thought of that until someone mentioned in the Twitter-spree.

At least he said it's technically possible. We'll see!

 

[amar212]

I guess it's not half bad.

Actually it is great.

It is not fixed, but animated as suspension-travelling and body roll.

It looks nothing less than great in motion.

The physics I can live with.

Yesterday it was my frist attempt in driving Forza with controller. I drove both FM2 and FM3 with the wheel.

Dear Lord...

 

[Kinetic]

In all fairness regarding Forza... 1 & 2 i played to completion 1000G on both of those and thats a lot of hours. Their format and play was so good and it wasn't too acradey. However Forza 3 ruined that couldn't hold my attention past a week, ruined it for me.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

In all fairness regarding Forza... 1 & 2 i played to completion 1000G on both of those and thats a lot of hours. Their format and play was so good and it wasn't too acradey. However Forza 3 ruined that couldn't hold my attention past a week, ruined it for me.

I lost interest in FM3 about 6 weeks after release

The problem for me is when I played FM2 I was only interested in the career, Exhibition leaderboards, tournaments, racing online. Unfortunately Turn 10 removed all of these and completely spoilt the online play with the hoppers. Even to this day I haven't finished the single player mode and never will!

What makes me laugh is my video below. This was taken from E3 last year when Turn 10 presented FM3. You will note Dan Greenawalt says "every aspect of this game has been improved" What a load of rubbish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ADKyJa5xQ8

 

[amar212]

I have to admit I played it for almost 5 months after release, it was the only game I've played besides MW2.

However, after they've laid the gravestone on B-class RWD hoppers I have finally quit.

Never have bought any DLC - maybe would buy Spa or Bathurst, but those dreams never happened - because DLC-in-game-credit-shopping idea was pure madness.

And I've even purchased 1Y Gold and 2400 MSP card just for this game.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

.

However, after they've laid the gravestone on B-class RWD hoppers I have finally quit.

game.

What i've never understood is why they didn't include a stock car hopper. How this could of worked is every time the track changes so does the stock car that everyone has to use. The positives of this is the playing field is level and nobody can use those damn AWD leaderboard cars.

This is another reason why Turn 10 failed. They failed to introduce variety into the hoppers and also the rotation of tracks became very repetitive. I can think of numerous tracks that never appeared in the hoppers.

 

[bullie77]

Actually it is great.

It is not fixed, but animated as suspension-travelling and body roll.

It looks nothing less than great in motion.

Amar,

I understand you're a journalist, making game reviews in Croatia, and you seemed like a pretty balanced guy.

After GT5 quality, as a journalist, what do you think of GT5 release on the PS3 such type of generic cockpit or 800+ plus of the cars in their game, the latest installement on the last-gen console, next to 200+ highly detailed cars in the same game?

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I lost interest in FM3 about 6 weeks after release

The problem for me is when I played FM2 I was only interested in the career, Exhibition leaderboards, tournaments, racing online. Unfortunately Turn 10 removed all of these and completely spoilt the online play with the hoppers. Even to this day I haven't finished the single player mode and never will!.

That pretty much describes my run at FM3 to a Tee.

I have to admit I played it for almost 5 months after release, it was the only game I've played besides MW2.

However, after they've laid the gravestone on B-class RWD hoppers I have finally quit.

Never have bought any DLC - maybe would buy Spa or Bathurst, but those dreams never happened - because DLC-in-game-credit-shopping idea was pure madness.

And I've even purchased 1Y Gold and 2400 MSP card just for this game.

Personally, I thought the writing was on the wall for most RWD from the get-go.

 

[amar212]

After GT5 quality, as a journalist, what do you think of GT5 release on the PS3 such type of generic cockpit or 800+ plus of the cars in their game, the latest installement on the last-gen console, next to 200+ highly detailed cars in the same game?

To be honest, nothing negative.

Without going into deep analysis, I do not find it that much problematic.

People often do not realise that past 6 years of GT5 development went into much important things such as actual physics engine, overall game design, game structure, creating online, community and network enviroment that GT series never had and upgrading the huuuuuuge PD's databases to HD-quality of this and next-next-gen.

Although I'd like to see all 1000+ cars available in Premium quaility, it was clear (at least to people that had inside info) it was just not going to happen. Such monumental task, with only 40+ people working on actual car modelling is too much work.

Worth mentioning is that all Standard cars will probably be available as Used Cars - not as new cars - so new models from Dealerships will all be Premium.

Back on your question, even from just what we saw untill now, GT5 will bring so much features into series and genre - especially on consoles - that this whole Standard/Premium debate should be non-existant IMO.

However, when final game hits the retail and everybody get their hands on GT5, it will be forgotten more-less. Criticism will remain, no doubt, but I presume nobody actually have an idea - myself included - what obstacles had to be done in order to get a final product od such technical quaility that GT5 will be on hardware from 2007.

Overall GT series philosophy of actual ownership and vehicle maintanance, mechanical and visual damage modelling, car tuning and such, night/day transitions, online, community and network features, possbile inclusion of weather effects, still non-determined option of track editor, countless options from audio/visual standpoint, 3D support, head-tracking, support for force feedback wheels, enhanced PhotoMode (18 megapixels probably), direct YouTube HD upload of replays, brand new and as rumored epical single player career mode, etc... I really do not care about Standard/Premium after all that.

It is an issue, I agree. But really...

 

[Neal]

^ amar212 good point well made 👍

 

[dzidza]

To be honest, nothing negative.

Without going into deep analysis, I do not find it that much problematic.

People often do not realise that past 6 years of GT5 development went into much important things such as actual physics engine, overall game design, game structure, creating online, community and network enviroment that GT series never had and upgrading the huuuuuuge PD's databases to HD-quality of this and next-next-gen.

Although I'd like to see all 1000+ cars available in Premium quaility, it was clear (at least to people that had inside info) it was just not going to happen. Such monumental task, with only 20+ people working on actual car modelling is too much work.

Worth mentioning is that all Standard cars will probably be available as Used Cars - not as new cars - so new models from Dealerships will all be Premium.

Back on your question, even from just what we saw untill now, GT5 will bring so much features into series and genre - especially on consoles - that this whole Standard/Premium debate should be non-existant IMO.

However, when final game hits the retail and everybody get their hands on GT5, it will be forgotten more-less. Criticism will remain, no doubt, but I presume nobody actually have an idea - myself included - what obstacles had to be done in order to get a final product od such technical quaility that GT5 will be on hardware from 2007.

Overall GT series philosophy of actual ownership and vehicle maintanance, mechanical and visual damage modelling, car tuning and such, night/day transitions, online, community and network features, possbile inclusion of weather effects, still non-determined option of track editor, countless options from audio/visual standpoint, 3D support, head-tracking, support for force feedback wheels, enhanced PhotoMode (18 megapixels probably), direct YouTube HD upload of replays, brand new and as rumored epical single player career mode, etc... I really do not care about Standard/Premium after all that.

It is an issue, I agree. But really...

the only issue i see is whether there will be enough beer in the fridge when this game arrives at my door step

 

[bullie77]

To be honest, nothing negative.

Without going into deep analysis, I do not find it that much problematic.

People often do not realise that past 6 years of GT5 development went into much important things such as actual physics engine, overall game design, game structure, creating online, community and network enviroment that GT series never had and upgrading the huuuuuuge PD's databases to HD-quality of this and next-next-gen.

Although I'd like to see all 1000+ cars available in Premium quaility, it was clear (at least to people that had inside info) it was just not going to happen. Such monumental task, with only 20+ people working on actual car modelling is too much work.

Worth mentioning is that all Standard cars will probably be available as Used Cars - not as new cars - so new models from Dealerships will all be Premium.

Back on your question, even from just what we saw untill now, GT5 will bring so much features into series and genre - especially on consoles - that this whole Standard/Premium debate should be non-existant IMO.

However, when final game hits the retail and everybody get their hands on GT5, it will be forgotten more-less. Criticism will remain, no doubt, but I presume nobody actually have an idea - myself included - what obstacles had to be done in order to get a final product od such technical quaility that GT5 will be on hardware from 2007.

Overall GT series philosophy of actual ownership and vehicle maintanance, mechanical and visual damage modelling, car tuning and such, night/day transitions, online, community and network features, possbile inclusion of weather effects, still non-determined option of track editor, countless options from audio/visual standpoint, 3D support, head-tracking, support for force feedback wheels, enhanced PhotoMode (18 megapixels probably), direct YouTube HD upload of replays, brand new and as rumored epical single player career mode, etc... I really do not care about Standard/Premium after all that.

It is an issue, I agree. But really...

Thanks for your reply. I'd just like to share my comments on the bold parts of this quote of yours and invite you, if you like, to comment/discuss them back.


There is no dispute, from my part, that GT5 will bear some impressive features never before seen in the series. And I'm sure the time envolved in all those, from concept, to development, testing and implementation, was quite significant. I agree also, and I guess everybody in its right mind would so, that I'd like much more to have all 1000+ cars premium. However it's the way we both look at natural difficulty of doing it so that is different. And the key factor is the 1000+ number.

A small group of 20+ wouldn't have the time I'm sure, to make those 1000+ cars premium. What surprises and dissappoint me is that PD choosed to stick to the 1000+ figure at the expense of the modelling quality consistency rather then going for a more feasible number of cars in that "premium" quality - perhaps 300 or slightly more. Because, let's face it, such huge amount of cars, although always nice to have at your disposal, is at first and foremost a "catchy" marketing feature...

This is of course a PD's decision and, since they are the developers, which ever way they would decide it was a legitimate one. However, and considering all things, including all past GT games, this option does however transmit the feeling of "downgrade" (if the word happens to exist...), specially if we compare the apparent quality of the standard cars to those featured in GT5P and the possibility of a black-frame cockpit "carried" from a much less evolved console as the PSP, at least in my opinion.

 

[Zathra5_]

A small group of 20+ wouldn't have the time I'm sure, to make those 1000+ cars premium. What surprises and dissappoint me is that PD choosed to stick to the 1000+ figure at the expense of the modelling quality consistency rather then going for a more feasible number of cars in that "premium" quality - perhaps 300 or slightly more. Because, let's face it, such huge amount of cars, although always nice to have at your disposal, is at first and foremost a "catchy" marketing feature...

I believe that this is the huge flaw in your logic. You can't assume that not doing the standard cars would have allowed PD to do 50% more premium cars. It just doesn't work that way. Remember most of the 800 standard cars are from GT4 models. Remember that those same models were being worked on for GT PSP. The added workflow to output those models for GT5 would be miniscule compared to modelling premium cars from scratch and in the detail that they did. It is probably much closer to the truth that you would have had the choice of 200 premium + 800 standard or just 200 premium. Additionally, I suspect that the actual number of premium cars (and the number of tracks) will be higher than what they are saying now. I have a suspicion that we are getting 20+ premium tracks with dynamic lighting and maybe dynamic weather as well as a number of standard tracks.

 

[amar212]

It is argument-vertigo, you know.

You ask for "...a more feasible number of cars in that "premium" quality - perhaps 300 or slightly more". There will be +200 Premium cars which is not so far from your preffered number.

And we're going to have additional 800+ Standard cars to play with, with same physics, same mechanical damage modelling (minus visual damage which is not important as long as we have terminal mechanical damage modelling) and all options to maintan them, tune them, upgrade them, etc. Also notice we still do not know FOR SURE what exactly Standard models correspond to cockpit-wise.

But if there is going to be cockpit - and I'm somewhat positive it will, and I'm also positive it will not be far from ones seen in Prologue, but that's just my personal idea - it will certanly not going to be black carboard as in GT PSP.

After first batch of official info and features was revealed 3 weeks ago, I really stopped to care about Standard/Premium forever.

 

[bullie77]

I believe that this is the huge flaw in your logic. You can't assume that not doing the standard cars would have allowed PD to do 50% more premium cars. It just doesn't work that way. Remember most of the 800 standard cars are from GT4 models. Remember that those same models were being worked on for GT PSP. The added workflow to output those models for GT5 would be miniscule compared to modelling premium cars from scratch and in the detail that they did. It is probably much closer to the truth that you would have had the choice of 200 premium + 800 standard or just 200 premium. Additionally, I suspect that the actual number of premium cars (and the number of tracks) will be higher than what they are saying now. I have a suspicion that we are getting 20+ premium tracks with dynamic lighting and maybe dynamic weather as well as a number of standard tracks.

You contradicted yourself in your post. You disagree that the time they would eventually save by not working on the 800+ standards would've allowed them to introduce another extra 100 premium cars or so. But, on the other hand, you believe that without having saved that hypotetical time, they'll be delievering more than the announced 200+ premiums...

Either way, the 300+ numbers I gave out of my head was a mere number to try to make a point. You can replace it by which other number you feel more appropriated. The point is still the same.

@amar

It is argument-vertigo, you know.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Can you please explain differently (sorry)?

You ask for "...a more feasible number of cars in that "premium" quality - perhaps 300 or slightly more". There will be +200 Premium cars which is not so far from your preffered number.

As I've mentioned to Zathra, the 300 figure was used as an example. And the feasible part was used regarding the (what I believe it was their initial intention) of doing 950+ plus premium cars. In that sense, 300 (or insert any other number you like) would be more feasible (realistically possible) than their initial goal.

But if there is going to be cockpit - and I'm somewhat positive it will, and I'm also positive it will not be far from ones seen in Prologue, but that's just my personal idea - it will certanly not going to be black carboard as in GT PSP.

That (GT5P quality-likelihood of standard cars, including cockpit view similar) would be what I considered as minimum acceptable.

 

[Zathra5_]

You contradicted yourself in your post. You disagree that the time they would eventually save by not working on the 800+ standards would've allowed them to introduce another extra 100 premium cars or so. But, on the other hand, you believe that without having saved that hypotetical time, they'll be delievering more than the announced 200+ premiums...

Either way, the 300+ numbers I gave out of my head was a mere number to try to make a point. You can replace it by which other number you feel more appropriated. The point is still the same.

There is no contradiction. You add 50% more cars it will be a lot more work. I don't think that PD is being totally upfront with how many cars there will be. The flaw in your logic still exists. Would you sacrifice 800 standard cars for 1 premium? 5 premium? That might be all you would get.

 

[Sturdy]

And we're going to have additional 800+ Standard cars to play with, with same physics, same mechanical damage modelling (minus visual damage which is not important as long as we have terminal mechanical damage modelling) and ...

Not sure if this was a slip of the tongue, or possibly something you've missed amar, but it was confirmed (in the Inside Sim Racing video I believe) that the manufacturer's have stipulated that the car can never stop going no matter how damaged.

Just wanted to point that out as you used the phrase 'terminal damage', which to me means car = dead sort of damage. 👍

 

[amar212]

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Can you please explain differently (sorry)?

When I say "argument-vertigo" I mean there is argument and contra-argument to any argument and there is no win-win situation in this moment. Maybe there will be when GT6 arrives, but untill then this is the reality.

If there wouldn't be Standard/Premium issue, something else would be the issue. Like skidmarks, and it would be beaten to death, such as were reverse lights (damn they be forever).

If it turns out that night/day transitions will happen only on Premium tracks, then many will find that as capital offense. None will take into concern that we got it for the first time in series. It will be taken as a letdown, instead as an achievement. Same goes for weather.

Etc.

Not sure if this was a slip of the tongue..
Just wanted to point that out as you used the phrase 'terminal damage', which to me means car = dead sort of damage. 👍

OK, I agree - let's say "same amount of mechanical damage to mechanical parts as Premium models"

 

[bullie77]

Ok I understand amar, thanks for the clearing that out.

 

[Timppaq]

None will take into concern that we got it for the first time in series. It will be taken as a letdown, instead as an achievement. Same goes for weather.

wowowowowooow. Don't paint us all with the same brush, ok?


edit, at least not with the same colour

 

[chromatic9]

What about public lobbies/rooms amar212?

 

[SrRd RacinG]

But if there is going to be cockpit - and I'm somewhat positive it will, and I'm also positive it will not be far from ones seen in Prologue, but that's just my personal idea - it will certanly not going to be black carboard as in GT PSP.

I share very similar thoughts.

After reading the adjustment to the U.S. GT site, I've come to accept the fact that 800+ cars will be without a cockpit. In more blunt terms, they will be more beautiful than GT4 cars, but will present no different vantage point for the driver. Yes, they will take damage both physical and mechanical. But as far as placing the driver into a most realistic driving view; no.

But then again, I am hopeful that a solution is being made or has been made since E3 to at least give 800+ cars, which is 80% of the cars available, a decent cockpit. I am not sure if I agree that they will be similar to Prologue, but I do agree in that it won't be a mere blacked out frame. The PSP is one thing, but the PS3 is capable of something more attractive.

In the end, it's about the driving experience. So many external factors have been added to this experience: Weather (likely), day/night transitioning, damage, etc.

But at some point should come the internal driving experience; it's called the cockpit. This is something shared by all drivers no matter what external factors are in the mix.

Phew!

Note: I am a chase cam driver.

 

[McLaren]

BTW: I had Forza 3 and trust me they make you PAY for all the cars that should be in the stock game in the first place,like

-458,599xx,430 scuderia(can you believe it)
-lambo superleggera(not even the newer one that came out the old one)
-all the new astons
-the new zondas(not the ones that came along in 2009,the ones from 2005 and 2007)

It's called DLC & the people who set the price are MS. If Turn10 wanted to make the DLC free, they possibly could, but MS gets a share of anything on its Marketplace.

As for being "fair" (which is impossible when you've made it clear you're a fanboy), let's wait & see what PD does if they decide to use PSN.

 

[Devedander]

Worth mentioning is that all Standard cars will probably be available as Used Cars - not as new cars - so new models from Dealerships will all be Premium.

Am I the only one who thinks that's a very interesting tidbit?