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- MonSpaNur
How is Assetto Corsa to play?
- Thread starter NixxxoN
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- GTP_Orido
mister dog
(Banned)
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- misterdog
- misterdog7
I was quite good at drifting in GT5 (as in managing to do a stage without crashing or spinning), but that was using the joysticks of the DS3. A pad is easier for fast directional changes than turning a wheel around, so i guess more practice is needed.
- 2,344
- Bristol UK
- GTP_Chris
its fun 
- 874
- United Kingdom
I agree, I have spent a lot of time drifting in Assetto. Just did a 4 hour stint no stop online as it happens. It really helps with finer throttle control, and aids in learning how to counter steer if things get messy while racing. I give the same advice as you to people playing Forza as well.
- 1,029
- Uruguay
I've played a fair amount of AC, but by no means have I delved into it head-first. I love the feedback, the FFB forces are a delight. But, I definitely feel that they've gone for the "part sim part game" physics model, as the cars are simply far too easy to drive at-limit. So it's a lot of fun, but unfortunately, even with all driving aids turned off, there is too much "safety margin" programmed into the handling. Not NEARLY as bad as the dumbed-down physics of GT6, but still not quite as much as a pure-sim as I wish.
But, a lot of fun, and the cars seem to "feel right" in terms of their handling characteristics overall, it's just that too-forgiving nature that lets it down a bit.
But, a lot of fun, and the cars seem to "feel right" in terms of their handling characteristics overall, it's just that too-forgiving nature that lets it down a bit.
- 1,562
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
So you're from hard=realistic camp, huh?
- 373
- Ridge State
- TakatsukiYayoi
Are you playing on a "ideal" track rather than the grip set to "slow" or something like that? The track conditions do have a pretty substantial influence on how the car will handle.
That said, if you're running a GT car, keep in mind that modern GT cars are easy mode to cruise around in even with the assists off.
- 1,029
- Uruguay
I do a lot of RL motorsports in classic RR Porsches and even a classic VW Beetle (autocross, ice-racing). I also do enduro karting. The Porsches I drive share a very nearly identical chassis (and suspension!) with the YB, so I can give some real-life comparisons (mine are considerably less powerful than the YB of course, and thus *should* be more forgiving). It is, for example, easier to get either Porsche to spin in RL than the YB spins in AC, and a fair amount easier I might add. It's basically the same issue that GT6 has; too-much safety margin. It's not nearly as bad in AC as in GT6, but it's definitely there.
As for hard=realistic, that of course, depends on the car and the speed. Although ANY car take a lot of skill to handle once you are truly at the limit. (It's amazing how much easier it is to say, get an AWD Subaru back in-line than a classic RR Porsche if you're "going sideways").
- 2,865
- Australia
Was thinking along the same lines myself. We've got an interesting situation where difficulty factor is perhaps contributing much to iRacing>Assetto Corsa>PCARS for some, with a RBR>DiRT Rally deal starting up as well.
Maybe some people don't actually know what "the limit" really is. I drive reasonably conservatively I reckon, and don't have any illusions about how far I push it. I really don't come off track, which makes sense to me since I'm not truly pushing the limit. Now, if I would mistakenly assume that I'm a cutting edge race driver, I might think that Assetto is too forgiving.
It's like how far too many think of themselves as perfectionists. They think they are, but only because they don't actually know what it's like to really be one.
- 1,562
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
Sorry, wrong thread.
- 1,029
- Uruguay
I think one of the problems is that so so so many people playing racing sims and games have zero RL motorsport experience that they think that unrealistically easy sims/games (such as GT6) are correct in their difficulty (don't even get me started on how wrong the Karts are in GT6... Talk about EASY, wow). I'm not trying to come down too hard on AC. I really enjoy the FFB, and it's been pretty fun, I just wish that anything claiming to be a "sim" had a true sim mode. AC isn't terrible, it's actually extremely good in the majority of ways, but if people think that it's realistically difficult then they really should get some RL motorsport experience, even if it's just basic autocross.
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- 2,865
- Australia
We can't really talk about difficulty on a single and linear plane though. One game/sim might have easy to drive at the limit, but difficult to recover when it's exceeded physics. Another might deliver equal opposite values.
There's some robust debate happening at the moment with all of the sim options available. Plenty of people are thinking that PCARS has nailed it, because it should realistically be easy to drive hard, but difficult to drive at the limit.
The big issue for me is when loss of traction is not logically recoverable. GT has that spikey tipping point, where it's such a fine line between smooth sailing and all hell (and back ends) breaking loose, with very little in between. Assetto is also somewhat guilty here I think. So, if you're not losing traction - drive harder. If you're not losing traction when you think you should be - drive harder anyway. That part's not so bad. Thing is, it's kind of the opposite of the too much "safety margin" that you mentioned, in that we don't get a wide enough traction loss span to work with - only a long traction span. I think it actually needs more safety margin, while longer/shorter traction span for me is.... meh.
There's some robust debate happening at the moment with all of the sim options available. Plenty of people are thinking that PCARS has nailed it, because it should realistically be easy to drive hard, but difficult to drive at the limit.
The big issue for me is when loss of traction is not logically recoverable. GT has that spikey tipping point, where it's such a fine line between smooth sailing and all hell (and back ends) breaking loose, with very little in between. Assetto is also somewhat guilty here I think. So, if you're not losing traction - drive harder. If you're not losing traction when you think you should be - drive harder anyway. That part's not so bad. Thing is, it's kind of the opposite of the too much "safety margin" that you mentioned, in that we don't get a wide enough traction loss span to work with - only a long traction span. I think it actually needs more safety margin, while longer/shorter traction span for me is.... meh.
- 454
- Australia
i've often felt the over-steer in AC to be a little too hard to recover from...the tyres break away progressively enough and there is a catch-able slide, then all of sudden they have overheated and turned to mush....rendering the slide un-catchable even with the clutch in and ample countersteer!
I am talking about road cars on period spec tyres with a g25........and comparing the feeling to LFS which i rate as pretty accurate compare AC and also my 30yrs of street and track hoonage.lol
I am talking about road cars on period spec tyres with a g25........and comparing the feeling to LFS which i rate as pretty accurate compare AC and also my 30yrs of street and track hoonage.lol
mister dog
(Banned)
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- misterdog
- misterdog7
Playing PCARS i've found the Mz slider in the car's FFB settings helps a lot with that. You feel the back end losing traction much better and it also ups the self centering forces of your wheel making it easier to control a slide. I wish AC had these sliders as i suspect my wheel doesn't convey the loss of traction good enough on default settings, and being able to accentuate seperate FFB effects would give me much more response.
Whitestar
Premium
- 2,103
- Norway
- Whitestar127
Yeah I have sometimes noticed this too. Mostly I think it feels very nice and I am able to catch the slide, up to a certain point. But from there...no recovery. I have no idea how it's supposed to be in reality, but I saw a BTCC driver once, his back end broke loose. In with the clutch, complete countersteer, he was actually going completely sideways and was still able to recover the car. But I suppose it could depend on the car and other factors as well. I'm sure the AC devs are continuously improving the tyre model and finetuning things like this.
Are you using the Jack Spade (JS) tweaks? On my T500 I can feel better losing traction in AC than PCars, even with the JS tweaks. Will this Mz slider help with this on top of my installed JS tweaks, or is this "Mz tweak" already in the JS tweak, if you know what I mean?
mister dog
(Banned)
- 8,396
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- misterdog
- misterdog7
I think these JS files overwrite all your FFB settings even if they look default in game. Best bet is to remove them so you start from 0 and you know the Mz and the other individual FFB sliders will do their jobAre you using the Jack Spade (JS) tweaks? On my T500 I can feel better losing traction in AC than PCars, even with the JS tweaks. Will this Mz slider help with this on top of my installed JS tweaks, or is this "Mz tweak" already in the JS tweak, if you know what I mean?
- 1,037
- New Zealand
- noshog
Well I've had AC since the early, early access days, admittedly I have not spent too much time on it and still have many tweaks to do to my G27 and graphics settings to optimize the performance of the sim. But I could definitely see and feel the potential....
This weekend I visited a friend who had just finished building his new PC for AC, he is running triple screens and a T500 wheel and some brake pedal mods....Wow, now I know just how far off my wheel settings are and how much of a step up the T500 is over the G27. AC felt and looked amazing !! After running his set up, where everything from graphics to wheel settings are maximised, I would say this does have to be the best sim on the market at the moment. I fully loved every moment I played.
We played a mod track of our local Pukekohe track, I have some real life experience of this track in a friends race car, and first I can say this is an awesome mod, definitely the best version I have played of Pukekohe ever. Secondly I was quite amazed how my real experience and sim experience were so familiar, I couldn't push harder in AC just because it's a 'game' I had to drive in AC pretty much exactly the same as I would in real life....All in all I'm now very impressed with AC, but unfortunately I now want a T500 and new graphics card so I can match the experience of my mates set up.
This weekend I visited a friend who had just finished building his new PC for AC, he is running triple screens and a T500 wheel and some brake pedal mods....Wow, now I know just how far off my wheel settings are and how much of a step up the T500 is over the G27. AC felt and looked amazing !! After running his set up, where everything from graphics to wheel settings are maximised, I would say this does have to be the best sim on the market at the moment. I fully loved every moment I played.
We played a mod track of our local Pukekohe track, I have some real life experience of this track in a friends race car, and first I can say this is an awesome mod, definitely the best version I have played of Pukekohe ever. Secondly I was quite amazed how my real experience and sim experience were so familiar, I couldn't push harder in AC just because it's a 'game' I had to drive in AC pretty much exactly the same as I would in real life....All in all I'm now very impressed with AC, but unfortunately I now want a T500 and new graphics card so I can match the experience of my mates set up.
I see your point but have to disagree. May I ask what control method / wheel you are using? Driving Assetto with a CSW V2 is a blast... it is demanding but in the same time very, very controllable because you feel everybit of what happens to the car which enables you to react in the right manner. Just to give an example: Until recently I drove with the CSR Elite (not really a bad wheel too) and was not able to properly control the Ferrari F40. Now with the CSW V2 it is pure fun - still a nasty car but I can FEEL the car now and react quickly enough.
- 2,865
- Australia
The big thing for me is that I don't want weight transfer effect through the wheel - I have a 3dof motion set up for that. Assetto has it as an un-removable, un-reducible part of the ffb, and it only creates confusion with what the car's doing.
With a more powerful wheel (Elite vs V2) it should actually be more of an issue for you, but without a more realistic representation of weight transfer it can still be a preferred effect for many. I'm using an ECCI 7000 which is quite a bit more powerful again. If they put weight transfer in as a slider, I'd be happy I reckon. One has to wonder why they didn't though - perhaps that the ffb is overly reliant on it?
That's some serious equipment! I understand that you want to reduce or turn off weight transfer effects then. With no motion set though, it is essential to have this effect on the wheel. It is probably the same with shaker/rumble devices: In that case you want the vibration effects off the wheel.
- 1,233
- Patra
- Rotorist
Ruf RRs in GT6 on CM or CS tires are a handful I should say. 2 days ago I tested BTR2 in Tsukuba using DFPro with both of these tires and did 1 sec better laptime of the RL using CS and truly admired the guy that managed even this slower-than-mine laptime.
My experience concerning "going sideways", I only have with Clio RS, Megane Trophy and 2003 BMW M3 -> for me it was easier to handle in real life, in AC it was kind of guessing what to do with throttle/steering as the sim just lacks the usual inputs you have in real. That does not mean the physics model itself would not be accurate enough. In Pcars - on the other hand - it is much more easier to drift. I assume SMS did simplify this in order to have the same level of skills necessary compared to real life (by compensating these input deficits).
- 4,182
- Ottawa
@panjandrum, when you write " but still not quite as much as a pure-sim as I wish." what is/are the pure, what ever pure SIM really mean, that you are referring to?
I am very interested in knowing, because to me AC, might be missing a few feature for some, but every one agree that the Physic and FFB are as good as it get in the present state of commercial SIMs.
I am very interested in knowing, because to me AC, might be missing a few feature for some, but every one agree that the Physic and FFB are as good as it get in the present state of commercial SIMs.
- 28,470
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- Johnnypenso
The problem comparing any sim to real life is always the same. Most of us are limited to FFB from the wheel alone, whereas in real life, you get FFB from the seat of your pants and that's mainly what you use to drive. When I raced karts at a high level I can tell you I never thought about my hands or feeling things through the wheel, it was much more intuitive based on your equillibrium, visual/auditory cues and feeling the road surface through your butt. Of course people like @panjandrum that have real life experience in racing real cars have a different perspective than an old kart racer but I think the problem is the same. You could have a literally perfect simulation of real life physics, but you can't perfectly simulate gravity with a few hundred dollars of sim racing equipment. There will always be something lost in translation between your butt in real life and your hands on a sim.
I really like AC and I think it feels really good at the limit, but PCars takes a different approach it seems but it still feels good to me, and I can drive consistently in either game, once I'm used to a particular ride.
- 1,029
- Uruguay
After playing AC and Pcars more (and now that the YB is out in Pcars), and can definitely say that AC has FAR and away more realistic physics and feedback for this particular chassis. In Pcars the Yellowbird feels what I can only call "utterly and completely wrong", whereas in AC it feels "damn near perfect." The only complaint I really have in terms of the purity of the AC physics is the seemingly limitless grip tires have on acceleration. It's a minor complaint I guess. I think AC may well have the best physics and FFB of anything I've every played. I just wish I couldn't mash the go-pedal down so ham-fistedly (footedly?) will few or no ill effects.
Now I wish they would wrap that physics and ffb engine up in a really nice full-featured game (like Pcars!)
And I guess I don't know what makes a SIM completely pure. As has been mentioned, with zero chassis feedback (and that's incredibly important) driving cars fast in a sim is definitely harder for me than it is in real life. I'm much, much worse at SIM racing than I am in real life. I'll never, ever, be able to truly push to the limit in a SIM because something like 90% of the feedback I need is simply absent. So, if forced for an opinion, I would say the best sim would duplicate real-world physics as closely as possible, and then adjust that so that the overall *experience* is as challenging, realistic, (and hopefully fun) as real-life. Don't make it impossible, which it would probably be with zero "fudging", but don't make it crazy-easy (like GT6). And, when necessary, add FFB effects to simulate chassis movement and to make it fun because who wants boring? (For example, some cars have essentially ZERO road-feel or steering feedback. Try driving a Prius hard, for example. The steering never changes at all. The first you'll know that you are understeering is when you run head-on into something. Well, actually you will eventually feel the entire car start to slide forward instead of turning, if you have a "good butt", but even that feel is incredibly muted in a Prius. I've repeatedly described the Prius driving-experience as being "like attempting to drive a dead fish").
So I guess to me, a pure sim would replicate the *overall experience* of driving a particular car on a particular track, as accurately as possible. AC seems to do a very, very good job of this. The cars feel very unique.
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- 5,161
- Massachusetts
Have you actually driven the Yellowbird in real life? If so, I envy you...so much!
If not, how can you say that the YB feels perfect in Assetto Corsa? I'm sure you mean that the Yellowbird feels like what you'd expect it to be like in real life. I haven't played pCars, only GT6, and I'm blown away at how much better the physics and FFB are in AC compared to GT6. The cars really feel alive. And to be honest, I really thought some of the cars in GT6 felt awesome. I haven't played GT6 since I bought AC - I need to go back and do a comparison soon.Do you still feel the same way with Tire Model 5? I only had Tire Model 4 for a few days before the v1.3 upgrade came out and changed my newly purchased game to Tire Model 5. Even with only a few days under my belt, I could feel differences in a couple of the cars that I was spending most of my time in. Yet, I would never pretend that I truly had a good understand of Tire Model 4...I just didn't have many miles on my AC Resume.
So, do you think Tire Model 5 still has too much longitudinal grip? One of my biggest complaints is my inability to light up the rear tires of my Ferrari F40. On perfectly flat pavement you can floor the gas and click the paddle for 1st gear and all you get is a little chirp and then it bogs and fully grips and the RPMs slowly build until about 4000RPM when the turbos are fully spooled. I find that to be so ridiculous. I can roast the tires on my BMW M4 for God's sake!
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