Well I'm going to renege on my comment about that being my final post!
First off I'd like to say that I think most everyone's comments are valid arguments if they were for or against what I posted. It is also clear I missed a few things and I don't think I clearly established my point on a few issues. Don't take this as me trying to defend myself or anything! This post is more about adding and clarifying on my original post rather than responding to anyones.
1. That being said I missed a huge aspect of the game when it came to damage. Damage is something that is unbelievable tricky on the part of Polyphony Digital for the obvious reason of making damage models. It is my firm belief that if you can't do it right, leave it out. So I think the real issue is the choice of:
--do you want physical damage on vehicles that looks great and adversely effects the performance of the vehicle at the cost of spending less time on other aspects of the game?
--do you want virtual damage that shows no physical damage but still adversely effects the performance but is less time demanding to develop?
--or do you want no damage period and more time spent on other material?
You COULD say all three are extremes and that something along the middle of those choices would be best. My point is if you can't do the first choice "right" you should go with the last choice. The word "right" in that sentence is in quotations because I would be a fool to think I know what is actually "right." In a nutshell, however, this is one of the major questions of the franchise. With GT5 I believe Polyphony Digital somewhat deceived the public into thinking damage would be an integral part of the game and it obviously is not. Gran Turismo needs to decide which of the choices above is the plan of attack and go with it.
2. When it comes to tuning I would have to say that the series does pretty darn good for the most part. The only consensus I have really heard the populace scream for is the return of racing modifications. GT5 did indeed bring them back but they were obviously limited. I personally enjoyed the racing modifications as much as the next person in GT1 and GT2 but some are not necessary (such as racing modified Mazda Demios). All in all I think if Gran Turismo continues to feature a wide variety of race cars this issue won't be as big for some folks.
On a completely different and unrelated note: I personally enjoy driving the vehicles in the game stock as they come. Therefore I was disappointed that GT5 did not allow you to drive every vehicle you've ever owned in Arcade Mode like GT4.
3. NASCAR. Everyone has a strong opinion on NASCAR including myself. People either love it or hate it and few are in-between. My main point on NASCAR being in Gran Turismo is proper representation of the series. I did not mean to imply that the game should have a large selection of ovals or that we should expect to see 43 car fields anytime soon. Clearly if you love NASCAR you would be better served to buy a game strictly NASCAR... no doubt about it.
However Gran Turismo has taken the liberty of trying to incorporate many auto-racing genres and types - almost like an appetizer of every one. The problem with NASCAR in GT5 is that it is a bad appetizer - the sport poorly represented. Only 3 or 4 NASCAR ovals are currently over 2 miles in length and two of them appear as the only NASCAR tracks in the game.
Imagine the difference in racing on a track like Monza with its high speeds to racing at Monaco (Cote D Azur)with its tight turns that leave you on your toes all race long with little time to breathe. Such is the difference between racing at Indianapolis in a stock car as compared to Bristol.
I'm not for eliminating NASCAR altogether but if Gran Turismo isn't even going to get the physics right perhaps it is better left omitted. More tracks are always a plus though even if they ARE ovals. Let's just make sure the ratio of road circuits to oval ones is accurate to the real world number someone mentioned.
4. Car Count. When it comes to the car count my only real problem was with "milking" it on the part of Polyphony Digital. More cars is almost always better. My real issue is with the diversity of that car count. I am not in favor of removing Miatas or Skylines from the game. The problem is that if the game is going to have every generation of Skyline GT-Rs on the game, they should definitely have every generation of Corvettes, Mustangs, BMWs, and Ferrari. In general it is not the car count that is the problem in Gran Turismo but the Japanese cars to Rest-of-the-World cars ratio. Poor folks in Australia and Scandinavia have been screaming for representation for 15 years now!
5. Special Events. When it comes to the Karting and Rallying I have to say that Gran Turismo did "good" but not "great" in GT5. Both could obviously have been vastly improved upon but other than adding real life venues for both I didn't find too much wrong with them. My knowledge of the performance and realism of the Karts is poor so I can only take it from others on that.
6. Standard/Premium Cars. Without drawing everyone into a major argument I think the two are the extremes of two sides. Premium Cars (if indeed they are so time consuming to model) are over the top in some aspects and Standard Cars are poorly modeled for the current hardware cycle. Perhaps Polyphony should go in between? One thing is certain is that if all cars were Standard that would be bad at this point - Once you go Premium you can't take a step backward. At the same time the game needs to decide whether a capability of having larger fields (which is essentially more realistic when it comes to racing) is better than having 10 awesome looking vehicles.
7. Additional Features. I don't mean to say that things such as Photo Mode and B-Spec should be deleted in order to make disc "room" for more tracks, cars, etc. My issue with Polyphony Digital is not really how it manages how much it can fit onto a game disc but more on how they manage their own time. Instead of spending months developing scenic places and developments of Photo Locations or programming the workings of B-Spec mode, that time could be spent producing better material. This is more of a development team issue and if that team needs expanded to complete its goals on a more timely basis so be it.
I am not really in favor of getting rid of anything they have already created and put time into, but the management and redirection of that time into more concrete racing related material would ultimately be better for the series.
When it comes to having more than one game disc that is a completely different issue altogether that I cannot and will not address. This issue is not really a "make the game better" topic rather than a "how to manage more content on the PS3" topic.
8. Arcade v. Simulation games. Gran Turismo has always been a game with two "modes," "Arcade" and "Simulation" (even though it may be called "GT mode" or "GT life"). To my knowledge there are no other racing games that promote themselves on authentic realism while having an "Arcade" type of appeal for casual gamers and have been as impressively successful as Gran Turismo. Someone mentioned a few others that indeed fall in such a category but their success pales in comparison in both sales and realism.
On another note my view on the Gran Turismo series is not to make it into something it isn't - like a PC simulator. At the same time Gran Turismo should look to PC simulators for ideas to incorporate into their game - such as dynamic weather, more realistic enduros and pit stop strategy, more realistic tire, engine, and brake wear, and an online mode that favors fan created leagues and communities. Those features can easily be incorporated into the Gran Turismo universe without totally killing or altering the basis of the game itself.
Lastly I want to emphasize the title and my main point... to "fix" and not "change" Gran Turismo. The game is still really awesome and I play it everyday. It is almost like arguing with your wife on how to raise your children... you both love the kids and have their best interests in mind but may differ on the best way for them to grow.
message by the catfish
P.S. Thanks again to all who have taken the time to read mine (and other's) well thought out comments!
First off I'd like to say that I think most everyone's comments are valid arguments if they were for or against what I posted. It is also clear I missed a few things and I don't think I clearly established my point on a few issues. Don't take this as me trying to defend myself or anything! This post is more about adding and clarifying on my original post rather than responding to anyones.
1. That being said I missed a huge aspect of the game when it came to damage. Damage is something that is unbelievable tricky on the part of Polyphony Digital for the obvious reason of making damage models. It is my firm belief that if you can't do it right, leave it out. So I think the real issue is the choice of:
--do you want physical damage on vehicles that looks great and adversely effects the performance of the vehicle at the cost of spending less time on other aspects of the game?
--do you want virtual damage that shows no physical damage but still adversely effects the performance but is less time demanding to develop?
--or do you want no damage period and more time spent on other material?
You COULD say all three are extremes and that something along the middle of those choices would be best. My point is if you can't do the first choice "right" you should go with the last choice. The word "right" in that sentence is in quotations because I would be a fool to think I know what is actually "right." In a nutshell, however, this is one of the major questions of the franchise. With GT5 I believe Polyphony Digital somewhat deceived the public into thinking damage would be an integral part of the game and it obviously is not. Gran Turismo needs to decide which of the choices above is the plan of attack and go with it.
2. When it comes to tuning I would have to say that the series does pretty darn good for the most part. The only consensus I have really heard the populace scream for is the return of racing modifications. GT5 did indeed bring them back but they were obviously limited. I personally enjoyed the racing modifications as much as the next person in GT1 and GT2 but some are not necessary (such as racing modified Mazda Demios). All in all I think if Gran Turismo continues to feature a wide variety of race cars this issue won't be as big for some folks.
On a completely different and unrelated note: I personally enjoy driving the vehicles in the game stock as they come. Therefore I was disappointed that GT5 did not allow you to drive every vehicle you've ever owned in Arcade Mode like GT4.
3. NASCAR. Everyone has a strong opinion on NASCAR including myself. People either love it or hate it and few are in-between. My main point on NASCAR being in Gran Turismo is proper representation of the series. I did not mean to imply that the game should have a large selection of ovals or that we should expect to see 43 car fields anytime soon. Clearly if you love NASCAR you would be better served to buy a game strictly NASCAR... no doubt about it.
However Gran Turismo has taken the liberty of trying to incorporate many auto-racing genres and types - almost like an appetizer of every one. The problem with NASCAR in GT5 is that it is a bad appetizer - the sport poorly represented. Only 3 or 4 NASCAR ovals are currently over 2 miles in length and two of them appear as the only NASCAR tracks in the game.
Imagine the difference in racing on a track like Monza with its high speeds to racing at Monaco (Cote D Azur)with its tight turns that leave you on your toes all race long with little time to breathe. Such is the difference between racing at Indianapolis in a stock car as compared to Bristol.
I'm not for eliminating NASCAR altogether but if Gran Turismo isn't even going to get the physics right perhaps it is better left omitted. More tracks are always a plus though even if they ARE ovals. Let's just make sure the ratio of road circuits to oval ones is accurate to the real world number someone mentioned.
4. Car Count. When it comes to the car count my only real problem was with "milking" it on the part of Polyphony Digital. More cars is almost always better. My real issue is with the diversity of that car count. I am not in favor of removing Miatas or Skylines from the game. The problem is that if the game is going to have every generation of Skyline GT-Rs on the game, they should definitely have every generation of Corvettes, Mustangs, BMWs, and Ferrari. In general it is not the car count that is the problem in Gran Turismo but the Japanese cars to Rest-of-the-World cars ratio. Poor folks in Australia and Scandinavia have been screaming for representation for 15 years now!
5. Special Events. When it comes to the Karting and Rallying I have to say that Gran Turismo did "good" but not "great" in GT5. Both could obviously have been vastly improved upon but other than adding real life venues for both I didn't find too much wrong with them. My knowledge of the performance and realism of the Karts is poor so I can only take it from others on that.
6. Standard/Premium Cars. Without drawing everyone into a major argument I think the two are the extremes of two sides. Premium Cars (if indeed they are so time consuming to model) are over the top in some aspects and Standard Cars are poorly modeled for the current hardware cycle. Perhaps Polyphony should go in between? One thing is certain is that if all cars were Standard that would be bad at this point - Once you go Premium you can't take a step backward. At the same time the game needs to decide whether a capability of having larger fields (which is essentially more realistic when it comes to racing) is better than having 10 awesome looking vehicles.
7. Additional Features. I don't mean to say that things such as Photo Mode and B-Spec should be deleted in order to make disc "room" for more tracks, cars, etc. My issue with Polyphony Digital is not really how it manages how much it can fit onto a game disc but more on how they manage their own time. Instead of spending months developing scenic places and developments of Photo Locations or programming the workings of B-Spec mode, that time could be spent producing better material. This is more of a development team issue and if that team needs expanded to complete its goals on a more timely basis so be it.
I am not really in favor of getting rid of anything they have already created and put time into, but the management and redirection of that time into more concrete racing related material would ultimately be better for the series.
When it comes to having more than one game disc that is a completely different issue altogether that I cannot and will not address. This issue is not really a "make the game better" topic rather than a "how to manage more content on the PS3" topic.
8. Arcade v. Simulation games. Gran Turismo has always been a game with two "modes," "Arcade" and "Simulation" (even though it may be called "GT mode" or "GT life"). To my knowledge there are no other racing games that promote themselves on authentic realism while having an "Arcade" type of appeal for casual gamers and have been as impressively successful as Gran Turismo. Someone mentioned a few others that indeed fall in such a category but their success pales in comparison in both sales and realism.
On another note my view on the Gran Turismo series is not to make it into something it isn't - like a PC simulator. At the same time Gran Turismo should look to PC simulators for ideas to incorporate into their game - such as dynamic weather, more realistic enduros and pit stop strategy, more realistic tire, engine, and brake wear, and an online mode that favors fan created leagues and communities. Those features can easily be incorporated into the Gran Turismo universe without totally killing or altering the basis of the game itself.
Lastly I want to emphasize the title and my main point... to "fix" and not "change" Gran Turismo. The game is still really awesome and I play it everyday. It is almost like arguing with your wife on how to raise your children... you both love the kids and have their best interests in mind but may differ on the best way for them to grow.
message by the catfish
P.S. Thanks again to all who have taken the time to read mine (and other's) well thought out comments!
. For auctioning, FIFA 11 Ultimate Team...livery editors, you go to Forza (dare I say it 
). Online tournaments are already in the game if time trials don't suit you, online teams can be just sorted through the internet, and if you want matchmaking...there's always Call of Duty for you.
