Hunting - For or Against?

[Liquid]

In light of news of a farmer shooting a fox that was double the weight of a normal fox, what are GTP member's thought on fox hunting? Or hunting in general?

A few years back this was a big issue when the Labour Government banned fox hunting. In another thread, we've been talking about the arming of the police. The infamus Tony Martin case was referenced. Do people have a right to defend themselves and their property? Yes they do. With a weapon? Apparently not.

While I am looking at this only in terms of the UK, this isn't just a UK issue. Is hunting permitted in your country? If not, should it?

I do not live in the countryside, nor do I own weapons but I'm in favour of 'hunting'. That is, farmers need to ensure that their chicken coops are untouched by foxes, which aren't as cute and friendly as Basil Brush looked. As for the hunt, typically a pursuit of the upper classes, well this is when things like Animal Rights come crashing in from the left.

What do you think?

 

[Dennisch]

I believe hunting in the Netherlands isn't allowed, unless you have permission from the governement, to thin out the numbers.

I am against hunting, btw, unless, it is to keep a population from growing to large.

 

[Liquid]

Do you have vermin problems in the Netherlands?

It's generally foxes in the UK. Badgers are a big problem in some area too, because they carry TB. And are also very unfriendly.

 

[BobbyBRAKEaNek]

Hunting is legal here. I'm glad that it is and plan on starting this coming hunting season.

 

[Joey D]

We can pretty much hunt anything in Michigan if we have the right permits. I see nothing wrong with hunting as long it is done legally and safely, it really makes me mad when I hear people hunting without a permit or over-hunting their allotted tags. We need hunting as a way of population control among animals so this is why permits are so important, the state needs to know how much the population will be thinned out.

Even with hunting we still have a huge over population problem with the deer though. Every autumn there are hundreds of car-deer related accidents in my local area alone, there are thousands across the state.

I like to deer hunt along with a bit of small game (squirrel, rabbit, etc.) and try to get out at least once during the season. When I do bag something I go by the philosophy that I should use as much of the animal as I possible can, although I pass on some of the organ meat just because I'm not used to eating it and it makes me feel queasy. I often sell the hides to a tanner as well so they can be used to make leather goods or have the fur made into various hats, gloves, etc. The bones also make a great source of bone meal to be used in the garden.

I have an issue with people who kill animals for the hell of it though, there is no reason just to shoot a deer to lop of the antlers and leave the rest of it. At the very least donate the deer to one of the many butcher shops that give the meat to families in need. I always try to bag two deer when I hunt with the intent of donating the second one. Venison is way tastier than SPAM or whatever else they distribute to poor families so I fee like it's a good cause.

People that have something against hunting always puzzle me. I see no logical reason why hunting is bad as long as the animal population is conserved properly and the hunt is conducted safely. It provides fresh, nutritional food, free of antibiotics and other chemicals pumped into farm raised meat. It also thins out overpopulated animal species to prevent damage to crops, car accidents and allows a healthier animal population overall by reducing disease and starvation.

I have very little knowledge of how foxes are hunting in the UK, but it always seemed rather excessive. Here in Michigan we either use traps or a small caliber rifle to hunt foxes, seems much easier then getting a bunch of men in tweed to ride horses across the countryside.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Fox hunting in the traditional english, chasing across the countryside in your reds, with a pack of dogs murdering house-hold pets, blocking the roads with your flippin' horses and Range-Rovers with some half baked excuse about pest control I disagree with.

I'm not particularly against any form of hunting though I can see that actually, it is morally and ethically wrong to kill an animal for fun - but if whatever you murder you eat, then I'm not about to go protesting about it.

 

[Sam48]

Hunting is as legal is can be in NY State, and I'm quite proud of that. (Although I don't hunt myself)

Anyway, even if your against hunting, the total number of animals killed by cars was higher than the number of animals killed during hunting season this year. (And in many past years as well). Of course, that's just in my area, but I think you get the picture.

EDIT: And I contributed to that count

 

[Liquid]

I have very little knowledge of how foxes are hunting in the UK, but it always seemed rather excessive. Here in Michigan we either use traps or a small caliber rifle to hunt foxes, seems much easier then getting a bunch of men in tweed to ride horses across the countryside.

The problem is, is that they banned fox hunting, something which is a past time of the aristocracy. But in banning fox hunting, this also made it much harder for farmers to legally kill foxes that intrude on their premises. Foxes are a menace to chicken and sheep farmers, and bascially have free run of both the town and the country.

 

[Joey D]

The problem is, is that they banned fox hunting, something which is a past time of the aristocracy. But in banning fox hunting, this also made it much harder for farmers to legally kill foxes that intrude on their premises. Foxes are a menace to chicken and sheep farmers, and bascially have free run of both the town and the country.

I don't understand why the UK would even ban it in the first place. As long as it's regulated to make sure the fox population isn't destroyed there should be no problem with a bunch of rich people hunting by really inefficient means.

What do they do with the foxes once they get them? I mean do you eat them or something? Here in Michigan we hunt foxes for their pelts and that's about it.

 

[Liquid]

The pelts are one reason, but it's been a 'fun sport' of the upper classes for hundreds of years. I don't understand why either... If you're going to hunt, do something productive with what you kill. My dad used to take his dog rabbit hunting on weekends and would have a lovely stew afterwards.

 

[daan]

None of the examples that the OP has given are "hunting." Did Tony Martin hunt burglars? A farmer protecting his livelihood is not really hunting either.

A dog killed a sheep belonging to my in laws the other day. It was also chasing other sheep round the field. They would be perfectly within their rights to shoot that dog. Not that they did though.

The owners of the dog were probably too lazy to take their dog for a walk so they decided to let it loose in a field of sheep, to chase them around, to get some exercise. What possible harm can that do? Well, quite a lot actually, when you realise that every single one of those sheep is pregnant right now with, on average, 2 lambs each just about to be born. So 1 dead sheep, (probably) 2 dead lambs, and who knows how many still births from the other sheep that were chased around? A dog isn't vermin, but that one is lucky to still be alive.

What do they do with the foxes once they get them?

The foxes are ripped apart by the hounds, so there's not that much left.

 

[Liquid]

None of the examples that the OP has given are "hunting."

True, there is a difference between hunting and pest control. But the news story sent me on a tangent.

 

[Joey D]

The foxes are ripped apart by the hounds, so there's not that much left.

While I don't agree with that, if it's regulated I still see no reason to ban it.

Did you have to acquire a license in order to hunt foxes when it was still legal to do? Or was it just free reign?

 

[The Bman]

So long as the animal population is controlled I think hunting should be allowed, and depending on the animal it could or could not be hunted. So if you see something like a whitetail deer or elk (over here at least, where they are common) I don't mind but if it is something rare however, I would be against it.

I also think that hunting for meat is OK since the meat from hunted animals is cleaner than the beef you find in grocery stores, so long as you clean it right, and it tastes much better.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I hate hunting, dont see the point of it and I think it if there's any hunting that need to be done (wolf/bear eating farmer's animal) it should be done by professional.

In the town in france where my parents lives, there's hunter and most of the time they are drunk, but still can't kill some stuff because they dont hunt fair and square. Usually from what my parents told me, they release animals in the wood then go hunt for them, but those animals are so lost and frightend that most of them goes on the road and got smashed by car. Anyway I hate hunting and always will do. I think it's too dangerous and I dont see the point in it.

 

[PeterJB]

I suppose I can can understand hunting if it's for obtaining meat, or if it's after an individual animal that has been attacking people, but hunting purely for sport is horrid.

 

[Zenith]

If you wound it, you kill it. If you kill it, you eat it.

Concerning endangered species, I believe protecting yourself and your property is acceptable, but hunting should be banned on them. This should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis

Fox hunting? We do worse to animals and it seems like a fun tradition.

 

[AOS-]

Badgers are a big problem in some area too, because they carry TB.

I interpreted in a different way at first

I'm against hunting as a sport, not by means of hunting for food though.

 

[Solid Lifters]

If you wound it, you kill it. If you kill it, you eat it.

And how many flies, cockroaches, ants, spiders, etc. have you eaten?

Fact: Hunting is a sport. Think of any other sport, and hunting is very similar.

Fact: Anti-hunters are mostly over-emotional liberals who can't think with their brains. Who wants them telling you what you can and can't do? Not I.

Face it, animlas are tasty. I'd like to taste every single one of them just once before I die. And there ain't a DAMN thing wrong with that! If you think different, go suck a carrot!

 

[Zenith]

And how many flies, cockroaches, ants, spiders, etc. have you eaten?

Fact: Hunting is a sport. Think of any other sport, and hunting is very similar.

Fact: Anti-hunters are mostly over-emotional liberals who can't think with their brains. Who wants them telling you what you can and can't do? Not I.

Face it, animlas are tasty. I'd like to taste every single one of them just once before I die. And there ain't a DAMN thing wrong with that! If you think different, go suck a carrot!

Pest control and hunting are two different things. Sorry I didn't make it clear that my position applied to hunting only.

 

[Joey D]

And how many flies, cockroaches, ants, spiders, etc. have you eaten?

Fact: Hunting is a sport. Think of any other sport, and hunting is very similar.

Fact: Anti-hunters are mostly over-emotional liberals who can't think with their brains. Who wants them telling you what you can and can't do? Not I.

Face it, animlas are tasty. I'd like to taste every single one of them just once before I die. And there ain't a DAMN thing wrong with that! If you think different, go suck a carrot!

This is the attitude that makes people dislike hunters and I really wish hunters wouldn't develop a holier than thou stance towards people who dislike hunting. It doesn't help our cause one bit and makes it look like all hunters are ultra-conservative nut jobs with a gun that wants to blast everything that moves.

I know several anti-hunting types and they are far from "over-emotional liberals." While I don't agree with them and I think their reasons against hunting are illogical, I don't think they are over-emotional. They have a stance and they are willing to defend it. But if you think that's over-emotional, than you are just being hypocritical since you are exhibiting an over-emotional stance yourself.

 

[Villain]

I'm 100% in favor of regulated hunting.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57366738/hunting-animals-to-save-them/

Check this out and watch the segment.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7396481n

 

[AOS-]

This is the attitude that makes people dislike hunters and I really wish hunters wouldn't develop a holier than thou stance towards people who dislike hunting.

Big fat This.

 

[Villain]

This is the attitude that makes people dislike hunters and I really wish hunters wouldn't develop a holier than thou stance towards people who dislike hunting.

And I wish that people who oppose hunting wouldn't look at hunters like they are blood-thirsty savages.

Either way, it's irrelevant to the argument.

 

[Solid Lifters]

This is the attitude that makes people dislike hunters and I really wish hunters wouldn't develop a holier than thou stance towards people who dislike hunting. It doesn't help our cause one bit and makes it look like all hunters are ultra-conservative nut jobs with a gun that wants to blast everything that moves.

I know several anti-hunting types and they are far from "over-emotional liberals." While I don't agree with them and I think their reasons against hunting are illogical, I don't think they are over-emotional. They have a stance and they are willing to defend it. But if you think that's over-emotional, than you are just being hypocritical since you are exhibiting an over-emotional stance yourself.

Ted said it best...

 

[Villain]

Gotta love the Nuge!

 

[MatskiMonk]

Fact: Hunting is a sport. Think of any other sport, and hunting is very similar.

Hunting can also be a necessary way of life, rather than just entertainment. Consider though, most of the time people involved in sport are there voluntarily, animals being hunted don't take part because they enjoy it, they have no say in it. Would you consider it a sporting event if you were shot in the knees, robbed and left to die by a mugger, whilst innocently minding your own business?

Fact: Anti-hunters are mostly over-emotional liberals who can't think with their brains. Who wants them telling you what you can and can't do? Not I.

No that's not a fact, that's your opinion.

Face it, animlas are tasty. I'd like to taste every single one of them just once before I die. And there ain't a DAMN thing wrong with that! If you think different, go suck a carrot!

Some animals are tasty, some not so much.




Hard Target... hmm, now there's a good idea.

 

[Joey D]

And I wish that people who oppose hunting wouldn't look at hunters like they are blood-thirsty savages.

Either way, it's irrelevant to the argument.

But it is relevant to the discussion of being for or against hunting since it is often the thing that divides the two sides. It's a lack of understanding and education, many hunters seem to think that anti-hunters are all tree hugging hippies that want to save bambi and don't think you should hurt a living creature, whereas many anti-hunter seem to think all hunters are overzealous rednecks that blast anything that moves. There is some truth in both cases but I think the average hunter just does it because they enjoy the meat and like being outdoors, just as the average anti-hunter is probably against it because they don't like guns or are an animal lover.

Ted said it best...

Because that really helps your case. I'm from Michigan so we are required by law or something to love Ted Nugent, but the way he says some things are just without tact and really makes him look ignorant.

 

[Villain]

But it is relevant to the discussion of being for or against hunting since it is often the thing that divides the two sides.

No, it muddles things up. A fight about "who's crazier" doesn't matter. The argument stops being about hunting and starts being a popularity contest because you're labeling one side as one thing and the other side as another thing. Stick to the issue of hunting.

It's a lack of understanding and education, many hunters seem to think that anti-hunters are all tree hugging hippies that want to save bambi and don't think you should hurt a living creature, whereas many anti-hunter seem to think all hunters are overzealous rednecks that blast anything that moves.

Now who's holier-than-thou?

There is some truth in both cases but I think the average hunter just does it because they enjoy the meat and like being outdoors, just as the average anti-hunter is probably against it because they don't like guns or are an animal lover.

Okay, now that you've said that, let's turn the argument toward being for or against hunting.

 

[Joey D]

No, it muddles things up. A fight about "who's crazier" doesn't matter. The argument stops being about hunting and starts being a popularity contest because you're labeling one side as one thing and the other side as another thing. Stick to the issue of hunting.

It is an issue of hunting. The divide and perception between those for and those against hunting is often what causes the major rifts to happen. This is also how support for anti-hunting or pro-hunting laws are established, so it is a very important issue to discuss.

Now who's holier-than-thou?

How does that make me holier-than-thou? It's a lack of education and understanding on both sides of the fence. It's often what leads to divides in most things. If each side better understood what the other sides justification for their opinion was, you'd probably see more intelligent discussion rather than "you're a stupid, tree-hugging liberal" or "you're a savage, gun toting conservative".