Hybrids and Electrics aka Hippie cars

[Raitziger]

Yeah, I blame the current and last President for that monster. Both of them are total morons.

I watched some ducumentary on one of your channels and it said things started to down hill in Reagan's term.

 

[Kearney]

Can't believe everything you see on T.V.

Both Reagen and Clinton left a surplus, both Bushes and Obama so far have pushed us into debt.

 

[Raitziger]

Program moslty focused how much money middle class americans had. In recent years middle class salaries have been in stand still but very tiny portion of population made more and more of GDP. (was it top 1% earned 60% of the gdp) I must have remebered wrong and Bush and obana destroyed the bank like you said. And Reagan only destroyed middle class wealth (ask your parrents, they know better )

 

[Kearney]

I'm old enough to know that Middle America makes more then it needs to survive.

Yes, our Capitalist system allows those with some ruthlessness and a bit of recklessness to make ass loads of money. How ever, they worked for it so I really don't care how much money they make.

My family is middle class, we own a house and live comfortably. Well, we did before the recession hit but we lived comfortably.

If we REALLY wanna argue semantics. Its started with Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagen applied minor fixes such as tax cuts in hopes they would be continued by the next administration.

They were not.

We got royally ****ed from the first Bush, Clinton did much that Reagen with a more Democratic versus Republican nature and helped us out. Second Bush came, royally ****ed us again.

Obama came, we expected another Clinton/Reagen type character. He pulled the same **** Bush did on over drive.

 

[niky]

Psst... you can't blame the US debt on capitalism. The US isn't a purely capitalist system.

Interesting, I thought that was a California only tax.

I guess my big ass Bronco doesn't get taxed because I use it for work?

And hey. Don't make fun of Russia, they are watching.

Doesn't matter whether or not you use it for work. As long as it's a truck, you don't get taxed on poor fuel consumption. Whether or not you're using it as a commercial vehicle or a private vehicle.

Which makes about as much sense as giving station wagon owners a tax break because you can use them as hearses. And Lord knows we could always use more hearses.

 

[homeforsummer]

Everything you said was perfect. Except the part about global warming being real. Because your country is socialist, you have emission tax, but because the US is not socialist, we don't have emission tax. So doesn't that kinda hint something to you there???

I get it. So the existance of global warming is solely dependant on whether countries can tax it or not.

It's hard to get my point across to people who have little knowledge of businss and politics so I'll shut up. I know that I don't give any sources or links, but that's because I base my answers souly off my knowledge of the subject.

Ah, I get this too. So you're able to make claims that you know lots about politics, but when someone questions you on it you say this:

I know I don't have anything to back up my data with, but your country is so filtered that it wouldn,t make a difference anyway.

Kinda convenient, that, isn't it? You can't provide proof, but luckily we don't live in countries with full disclosure and too much censorship, so we'd be unable to find enough evidence to prove you wrong?

I'm sorry, but so far the only thing you've displayed is a complete lack of knowledge on pretty much anything we've talked about and a complete inability to back up your claims with any form of proof.

This whole thread is going here now, I'm afraid.

Recent polls in the UK show the majority of the population are Global Warming sceptics, a number that is increasing by the day.

They aren't denying Global Warming is taking place, just how much man is responsible, and even if it matters at all. Until those questions are answered the public will be scepticle.

Just because the population are sceptical it doesn't mean the trend doesn't exist. It just means that people have got sick of being taken for a ride by politicians.

You'll also note that on more than one occasion in this thread I've mentioned myself that we can't be sure how much man is responsible for, so I'm not denying that man's involvement is up for debate But overwhelming evidence suggests that global warming does exist.

It's also worth remembering that there are plenty of benefits for going electric, reducing emissions etc besides just CO2. I've mentioned these a fair few times in the thread too.

EDIT: Also, you might want to link me to these recent polls. I'm starting to get very bored of people making claims they can't back up. And if you saw this poll in the Daily Mail, it doesn't count.

 

[Sphinx]

Drifiting too far off topic, guys.

Pull it back a bit please. 👍

 

[bullie77]

Sam48
Nope, it's because European governments followed the money, and became socialist. In America we don't have global warming related taxes because we are capitalist. I can't describe really the rest. You'd have to step back and look at everything differently to understand this.

Sam48
If anyone of you (European person) lived in the US for just a few months you'd understand what freedom is, and how bad your government really is. We've gone way off topic.

Sam48
But keep in mind this was before scientists received grant money from the government. I'll say again, follow the money.

Sam48
If anyone of you (European person) lived in the US for just a few months you'd understand what freedom is, and how bad your government really is. We've gone way off topic.

After reading your above quoted statements, amongst others, I now can begin to realize how does someone have you beliefs and arguments about global warming...

You see... back here in "retarded" europe... where democracy was first born back in the days of ancient greek (from Greece, in the Mediterranean), where countries were already old even before anyone dreamed there was such a vast entire continent on the west of the Atlantic (my country, Portugal, as an example is an independent nation since 1143), we already had, as far as political systems goes, from the right wing dictatorial states in Germany, Portugal, Spain and Italy all the way to the left wing communist/socialist regimes of the 'Iron curtain' (Czechoslovakia, Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, Albania, and the USSR itself)...we believe that view of socialism in the US, typical from the 50's from MacArthur days was a thing from the past. The Iron Curtain dropped, well establisbled democracies have risen up on (some) the eastern nations, communication is faster everyday and people are more and more willing to learn about what is happening in the rest of the globe. I trully felt that in the past 20 years the average American (as in US citizen) dropped that Cold War attitude of isolation and start to want to learn more about the world that exists beyond the Atlantic, Pacific, Mexico and Canada.

And the we got you...

To label European governments as a whole as 'socialist' or to state that for one European to know freedom must live in the US it's, at best, arrogance, pedantic, and a statement of ignorance from your part.

Your declaration of independence says that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

The same country that cherish so much these words, written in July 4th 1776, and yet so true, is the same country that, only 40-something years ago, almost 200 years after this declaration, still pursued, people for the colour of their skin. That would find those of 'dark colour' to be fit to serve their armed forces in war time with the cost of life, but found those same men unfit to be considered "equal".

That same country (your country on which accordingly to you I need to live in to get "in touch" with freedom), is the one that condemned to captivity their nationals of Japanese origin, some of them 2nd generation, already born in the US, after Pearl Harbour attack. No courts, no trials, no jurys.

That same country of freedom, where freedom of speech is cherish as a priceless individual liberty, is the same country where people were jailed, fired, humiliated, in fact destroyed, for having political views different from those who had the power in the 50's.

Is this the US of today? Thankfully no! But what do you have to show us about freedom that a someone from the UK, Spain, France, Portugal, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Holland, amongst many other countries, from Europe and outside Europe don't have?

The US are undoubtfully a great country. Their sheer powerfulness in many ways make them a world leader. But that it is not the same as imposing the way you live. Because if you have a deep thought you'll easily see that you are not that "free" as you may think.

I was a huge critic of the American attitude towards the rest of the world. As I stated before, I truly see a change in that attitude in the last years. And I'm not referring only to Obama's presidency. Even before that the american people became more auto-critical, more aware of the reality of the world and changed from a narrowminded attitude towards a much more positive and open minded. Thankfully. We all win from that. Americans and the rest of the world.

And if you based your statement of european governments being socialist because of an universal health care system, and because it will be implementend in the US also in mid-term, then my friend it is you who don't understand politics and haven't got a clue on what socialism is. MacArthur was wrong you know?

I'll let you with one last thought: No country can ever fair neither their citizen can ever be considered equal if there isn't the assurance of minimal human dignity for everyone. Health care is one of the essential aspects of that human dignity.

 

[Scaff]

Let me put it like this. (I somewhat agree with Stevisiov) The whole global warming thing has been preached for about the last 40 some years. The earth has been around for billions of years. So scientist have decided that within this 40 years of research, that their is a climate crisis, when nobody even knows what the recorded temperatures were before 1910. For all we know the climate where living in now could be cooler than normal. Nobody knows.

Why do you think Europe has emission tax and people like me in the US don't.

The Royal Meteorological office has been officially measuring and recording temperature (and a lot more) since 1850, a good 60 years prior to a date you have quite clearly just 'pulled' out of the air.

The CET (Central England Temperature) is the oldest regularly measured temperature dataset, having been carried out monthly since 1659....

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/science/monitoring/hadcet.html

...quite a bit earlier than 1910 you would have to agree.

In addition obtaining temperature data from periods before that date is established scientific knowledge (ice core and tree core samples being two examples). The data obtained from these methods is not debated, rather what it means and how its interpreted is.

If you are going to continue posting on GT Planet, you will do while following the AUP, one part of which clearly states that you will not post misleading data.

Do not post opinion as if it were fact and do not post 'facts' that are quite clearly nonsense.

Now this entire discussion would be better taken here.....

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=64596


....however I would warn you that carrying on the discussion in that thread will need you to be able to argue you point in an intelligent and reasoned manner.

This line of discussion ends in this thread as its totally off-topic, continue it here and the thread gets locked.


Scaff

 

[bullie77]

👍 fair enough, didn't realize that there were such a thread already. My apologies for what might be my responsability in this discussion.

 

[Heath_1]

LOL Oh dear.. Look what I've started.

 

[Sam48]

After reading your above quoted statements, amongst others, I now can begin to realize how does someone have you beliefs and arguments about global warming...

You see... back here in "retarded" europe... .

Why can't you come to the conclusion that Europe is socialist??? What else am I supposed to call it.

You didn't give data. You asked if I'd heard about them. Yes I have. Shameful thing, really.

Does it change the fact that what you said about CO2 cooling the Earth is wrong? Nope.

Does it change the fact that you still haven't read my country correctly and are now assuming I live in Communist China? Nope.

Honestly, it can't be that hard to look up "Philippines" in the Encyclopedia or on Wikipedia and find out that we're a Roman-Catholic Democracy with free access to international media sources... can it?

-

And no, we're not Socialist... but maybe you should read even more and learn the difference between Democratic Socialism and Totalitarian Communism. Your answers are getting loopier by the minute.

-

So you're assuming I'm a commie-loving, blind-eyed greenie who believes Al Gore is God and that the spittle coming from his mouth is Holy Water? I actually don't believe the bull about Man-Made Industrial CO2 being a major contributor to global warming. Note: I said "Man-Made Industrial CO2". That's because it's a relatively minor contribution, overall, and all this CO2 hysteria and carbon-offsetting equals an exchange of money. And once you start regulating things for reasons of money instead of as an effort to actually do something about the problem, things just fall apart.

I believe that some measures being taken to counteract Climate Change are useful. Measures such as direct emissions reductions, for one, through using more efficient ICE engines. I believe that others are equal to pouring in good money after bad. To curb emissions, you don't make a small number of incredibly expensive cars... you make cheap cars more efficient, instead.

-

By the way, America does have a socialist emissions tax. It's called the gas-guzzler tax. A gas-guzzler tax is almost exactly the same as a CO2 tax. Except it gives a socialist discount to the proletariat who drive trucks to work. Damn commie government.

Ok, your making a pretty big deal over me not looking under your name to see what country you were from. No I don't assume all those things you said about yourself. And yes it is data, I just didn't present it very properly. But judging by your last 2 posts, you'll probably try to ignore that part...again.

 

[Sphinx]

Sam48,
You've been asked by two members of staff to stop the off topic discussion.

Please take heed. I won't ask again.

Also, please stop double posting. If you have anything further to add then use the edit button. I've merged your last two posts.

 

[niky]

Ok, your making a pretty big deal over me not looking under your name to see what country you were from. No I don't assume all those things you said about yourself. And yes it is data, I just didn't present it very properly. But judging by your last 2 posts, you'll probably try to ignore that part...again.

Would you care to listen to the kindly moderators and take this off-topic discussion into the proper thread?

And would you try to take your own advice and not ignore what I posted when I said:

You asked if I'd heard about them. Yes I have. Shameful thing, really.

Does it change the fact that what you said about CO2 cooling the Earth is wrong? Nope.

Did you answer my question at all, instead of sidestepping the issue and accusing me of going off on a tangent that you started, by stating incorrectly that said report came out of my country?

And further incorrectly stating that my country was a socialist country?

Within those three arguments alone, you've violated the AUP quite a bit, without retracting past false statements or correcting them. You're treading the fine line between being an amusingly clueless poster and a potentially bannable troll.

So... does the East Anglia scandal actually change the fact that your statement: CO2 cools the Earth has no basis in fact, research or reference document?

That's the last I'll ask about it.

 

[Sphinx]

Closed for early spring cleaning...