Immigration

[Imari]

...without obligating them to follow German laws...

How are they not obligated to follow local law? They're subject to the same rules as everyone else. They may think they're not, but they're wrong.

 

[Johnnypenso]

How are they not obligated to follow local law? They're subject to the same rules as everyone else. They may think they're not, but they're wrong.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...of-islamic-law-in-german-courts-a-722477.html

Some elements of Islamic law have been applied in Germany for years.
"We have long been practicing Islamic law," confirmed Hilmar Krüger, a law professor at the University of Cologne, in an interview with SPIEGEL. "And that is a good thing."

Mathias Rohe, a lawyer and Islam expert in Erlangen, told SPIEGEL that the existence of parallel legal structures is an "expression of globalization." He said: "We apply Islamic law just as we do French law."

 

[Imari]

http://www.spiegel.de/international...of-islamic-law-in-german-courts-a-722477.html

My mistake, I assumed we were talking about criminal law since the discussion has been about sexual assault and rape.

Inheritance and property stuff...yeah, I can sort of see following whatever system was in place where the marriage was made or whatever if there's not a local law that's appropriate. If someone's in a polygamous marriage and German law isn't able to deal with that, then there are worse options than ruling according to the laws in the country they were married in.

The immigrants are still subject to the same laws as everyone else. It's simply that the immigrants can present legal situations that a native German would be unable to. Although presumably if a German went and became a Jordanian citizen, married a bunch of women and then moved back to Germany, the same laws would be applied. Hard to tell because it sounds like these are niche cases in which the judge has taken the "fairest" option available.


I find it odd that Germany has German law, but Jordan has Islamic law. The article says that Jordanian law is partially based on Shariah law. German law (and the law of most western countries) could be described as partially based on Christian law. That's the historical reality of those legal systems, they've been built up since a time when religious law and governmental law were basically identical.

Why then should one be labelled according to the nation, and the other according to the religion? Shouldn't the conflict be between Christian law and Islamic law, instead of German law and Islamic law?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

This documentary illustrates the problems with letting Muslim refugees inside Germany, without obligating them to follow German laws, values or the constitution

How can you force someone to observe cultural values? You can educate them as to laws and the constitution, but values are a completely different - and abstract - concept. Forcing them to observe those values is tantamount to forced assimilation, which can undermine individual identity.

 

[novcze]

It looks like gang sexual abuse have even name in certain cultures, it's called Taharrush

let's see what Saira Khan said about it:

“Here in the West, we need to stop burying our heads in the sand and accept that Asian, Arab and African men grow up in societies where misogyny is the cultural norm. We need to talk about it so we can change it.

Ignoring it, like the BBC did, is just condoning it. If we are allowing people to come in, we must also make sure that we are not blinded by some truths which are hard to swallow.

It is a betrayal of the truth, of the majority of decent migrants and – most of all – of women who must not see progress turned back for the sake of accommodating a medieval world view.”

 

[Joel]

It looks like gang sexual abuse have even name in certain cultures, it's called Taharrush

Yeah and in English we call it gang rape. I don't really get why it's any different to use that phrase.

 

[Encyclopedia]

It looks like gang sexual abuse have even name in certain cultures, it's called Taharrush

It literally means harassment though. It doesn't necessarily refer to a specific thing.

 

[FoRiZon]

Ahhh, the "Foreign language sounds either exotic or dangerous" archetype thing.

 

[novcze]

Yeah and in English we call it gang rape. I don't really get why it's any different to use that phrase.

Maybe because gang harassment on public was so exotic in Europe, we should use exotic name for it?


... surely, I wouldn't describe our "gang rape" as "a symptom of misogynous ideology, where Women are punished for being in public".

 

[TenEightyOne]

Maybe because gang harassment on public was so exotic in Europe, we should use exotic name for it?

If by exotic you mean "the arabic translation of collective harrassment" then yes. Not that exotic, obviously.

surely, I wouldn't describe our "gang rape" as "a symptom of misogynous ideology, where Women are punished for being in public".

Really? Victims surely would. The act is illegal in many, many places in the world including the the homelands of the perpetrators who have most recently been in the spotlight. The very act itself goes hand in hand with misogyny and a breakdown of law and order in either the area or the perpetrator's mind.

 

[novcze]

If by exotic you mean "the arabic translation of collective harrassment" then yes. Not that exotic, obviously.

It sounds exotic to me and fitting too ... but yeah, to some it may sound as cultural appropriation and we don't want to hurt any feelings, right?

Really? Victims surely would. The act is illegal in many, many places in the world including the the homelands of the perpetrators who have most recently been in the spotlight. The very act itself goes hand in hand with misogyny and a breakdown of law and order in either the area or the perpetrator's mind.

yes, generally rape = misogyny, but so far in Europe not done on the basis of certain ideology.

 

[TenEightyOne]

but yeah, to some it may sound as cultural appropriation and we don't want to hurt any feelings, right?

I wouldn't worry about the feelings of those people, they don't seem very clever.

yes, generally rape = misogyny, but so far in Europe not done on the basis of certain ideology.

Are you saying that it is elsewhere? Be specific.

 

[Dotini]

...generally rape = misogyny, but so far in Europe not done on the basis of certain ideology.

Patriarchy is not an ideology.

 

[Joel]

Heavy fighting breaks out in refugee camp - Šid - Serbian police vs kids from the middle east

 

[Dennisch]

Heavy fighting breaks out in refugee camp - Šid - Serbian police vs kids from the middle east

That's awful. Such disrespect towards the law. Shoot them all on sight.

 

[Joel]

That's awful. Such disrespect towards the law. Shoot them all on sight.

Look at the right side of the video, the other cop is arming the refugees to help them fight against his partner! This stuff goes all the way to the top.

 

[novcze]

Are you saying that it is elsewhere? Be specific.

According to Farhana Mayer, senior researcher at the Quilliam Foundation, theology department, Taharrush is a symptom of misogynous ideology in which women are punished for being in public. ... hmm theology department, one have to wonder what ideology it is and where it originated?


http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat...misogynistic-mind-set-that-must-be-dismantled

http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/about/staff/farhana-mayer/

http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/p...eologian-supports-the-muslim-reform-movement/

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Oh, look - it's also a problem in Kenya, which is not a Muslim country.

 

[squadops]

 

[Dennisch]

Helsinki police now also reports similar stories as happened in various cities in Germany.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Original video is here in Russian (8:10?). I don't speak Russian but if any Russians want to watch it and confirm the translation you are welcome to due to the sometimes suspect nature of Breitbart reporting: http://ren.tv/novosti/2016-01-17/im...-bezhency-nasiluyut-nemok-iz-za-ih-priyatnogo

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ecause-they-were-half-naked-and-wore-perfume/

Apparently, according to at least one Imam, the attacks in Cologne, "were the girls own fault, because they were half naked and wearing perfume. It is not surprising the men wanted to attack them. [Dressing like that] is like adding fuel to the fire”.

 

[mister dog]

Female asylum worker in Hamburg describes how her dream job being a 'gutmensch' quickly turned into a nightmare:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-cheating-death-threats-sexism-migrants.html

Sounds like these are very grateful people to work with

 

[Dennisch]

Incoming Daily fail posts!

 

[TenEightyOne]

Female asylum worker in Hamburg describes how her dream job being a 'gutmensch' quickly turned into a nightmare:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-cheating-death-threats-sexism-migrants.html

Sounds like these are very grateful people to work with

Sounds like dealing with British benefit claimants* - some are disparaging of women, some make sexualised comments, some make threats, some want everything doing for them and the best outcome for the least work. I can't find the source story at Die Welt but I can imagine that they would have presented exactly as the Daily Mail did.

*Or sections of any part of any society.

 

[mister dog]

Sounds like dealing with British benefit claimants* - some are disparaging of women, some make sexualised comments, some make threats, some want everything doing for them and the best outcome for the least work. I can't find the source story at Die Welt but I can imagine that they would have presented exactly as the Daily Mail did.

*Or sections of any part of any society.

In the translated version on Belgian news sites, she mentioned 90% of them are this way. That's more than 'some'

 

[TenEightyOne]

In the translated version on Belgian news sites, she mentioned 90% of them are this way. That's more than 'some'

She actually said "90% of the men were unpleasant", no?

 

[mister dog]

She actually said "90% of the men were unpleasant", no?

Yup?

Aber wenn ich ehrlich bin, dann ist die Zusammenarbeit mit 90 Prozent von denen, die ich treffe, eher unangenehm und leider nicht so, wie ich mir das vorher gedacht habe.

"But if I'm honest , then the collaboration with 90 percent of those who I meet , rather unpleasant and unfortunately not so , as I thought that before."

 

[novcze]

Sort of extension to this discussion from youtuber Sargon of Akkad ... censorship in Germany, deluded feminists, etc.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Looks like the Jews are bailing out of France in dramatically increasing fashion:

 

[Carbonox]

Racist Jews! They don't want to live in a multicultural paradise and are now running back to their close-minded monocultural country!