The Daily Mail has an agenda. They want to prove that Muslim men are all evil lechers, driven to Europe by their lust with plans to steal your women and corrupt your society, and they want to prove it so they can then stand up and say "rule Brittania!". So you'll forgive me if I don't think much of them.
The Daily Mail has an agenda. They want to prove that Muslim men are all evil lechers, driven to Europe by their lust with plans to steal your women and corrupt your society, and they want to prove it so they can then stand up and say "rule Brittania!". So you'll forgive me if I don't think much of them.
I don't suppose anyone is arguing there are NO lecherous Muslim men, as their behavior is motivated by a sincere and abiding belief in deeply patriarchal Koranic doctrine?
But I am an economic refugee. I moved from outside the Schengen Zone to Slovakia, inside the Zone, because I earn more money and have a better life here. Should I fear being repatriated?
But I am an economic refugee. I moved from outside the Schengen Zone to Slovakia, inside the Zone, because I earn more money and have a better life here. Should I fear being repatriated?
Not at all, but they integrated better as they formed a community that did business and worked for their money in order to provide for themselves. Again; a crapload of these immigrants flooding into Europe now just expect to be provided for, that's why they all want to go to the North of Europe as they know the social benefits are the best there, and they can take advantage of the welfare system.
Of course this is not applicable to all of them as i'm sure there will be people that just need refuge, will respect their hosts generosity and try to make a living for themselves, but there are enough disrespectful leeches present among them to at least be concerned about it, and they aren't even from Syria nor Iraq...
Not at all, but they integrated better as they formed a community that did business and worked for their money in order to provide for themselves. Again; a crapload of these immigrants flooding into Europe now just expect to be provided for, that's why they all want to go to the North of Europe as they know the social benefits are the best there, and they can take advantage of the welfare system.
Of course this is not applicable to all of them as i'm sure there will be people that just need refuge, will respect their hosts generosity and try to make a living for themselves, but there are enough disrespectful leeches present among them to at least be concerned about it, and they aren't even from Syria nor Iraq...
Are you suggesting Muslims don't form communities? Because, as I recall, one of the complaints against them in Europe is that they form insular communities and don't choose to be part of the bigger community. (which, funnily enough, doesn't want to be part of the Muslim community, either)
Much like the Jewish. Much like the Irish and Italians. Much like the Chinese. Their tight-knit, insular communities and the active support within them is what allowed them to survive and prosper over time, to finally become part of the American public. Still seperate, but sharing much of the same culture and obeying the same laws. But before that happened, there were lots of issues. Lots of problems. Lots of friction.
Much of it caused by a statistically small number of angry men on both sides... hey, sound familiar?
You are looking at these immigration waves with the benefit of hindsight, far removed from the screaming headlines and xenophobia of those days. My parents' generation still remembers what it's like to have rocks thrown at you in the street for having oriental eyes or black skin. My grandparents' generation lived on dole-outs, before they started making enough money to get on their two feet. And that was partially because the US Government took everything they had during the war. Three generations later, and their children and grandchildren still living in the US are all hard-working tax-paying citizens. And nobody will stone you in the streets for being "a dirty Japanese."
For sure, poor immigrants will be on welfare at the start. But whether they'll stay on that is up to them and the governments involved. If you have a problem with the welfare system, it's a problem with the welfare system, and not a problem with the immigrants per se. Even without that welfare bonus, the higher pay grades (and, of course, lack of active civil wars) across most of Europe still make it a prime target for immigration.
We don't know if these current immigrants will ever match the success of the American Jews and Italians, or if they'll be doomed to a longer slog like the African American community, due to the fractured nature and wildly differing backgrounds of the Muslim refugees. But it takes two to tango. They definitely have to find a way to fit into their new environment, and such stupidity as the New Year's Eve abuses cannot go unpunished. But they also need greater support from the community as a whole, and there should be a willingness to interact. If Europe keeps the refugees forever at arm's length, an issue to be suffered, shuffled under the table or shovelled back out the door, rather than tackled head-on, then it'll be facing even bigger problems in the future.
The problem lays with their morale as i think that they do not seem to have the goal to integrate but to take advantage and dominate.
It looks like the silent take over of Europe IMO, spreading Islam from within by making tons of children, and when the time is right imposing Shariah.
Might seem far fetched, but that might be the goal of many of these young men entering our countries at the moment:
An in depth, detailed look into "our" values and culture would be incredibly interesting because I have no idea what our shared European values and culture is. If Europe had any kind of shared values and culture, we wouldn't have had 422 different wars in Europe since Charlemagne unified most of central Europe after the fall of Rome (Link: List of confilcts in Europe).
That's only between European powers and not including wars against Persians, Arabs and Turks even if they took place in Europe.
That's wars, not battles, 422 different wars.
And that's without going into detail about certain wars like Napoleonic Wars, Hundred Years War, Thirty Years War, English Civil War and World War II which had multiple different wars within each other.
There is a gross misconception that "Europe" has been one happy family for centuries and that we're all on the same page and all think the same thing. While that might be truer today, and it's certainly encouraging because war is deplorable, it's incredible to think that for almost all of time the people Europeans have hated the most... is other Europeans!
Any time someone champions "It's about defending our values" and you ask what those values are, there's an immediate silence. For a start, I think it's quite a lot of rubbish anyway because I don't ever remember being told or educated what is and isn't a true Welshman, or a true Briton or a true European.
There isn't a concrete list of what is or isn't Welsh/British/European.
But for devil's advocacy, let's list a few "European" values; some you would consider given Europe's scientific and philosophical history:
- Equality (wages, taxation, voting rights, visitation rights for divorced parents)
- Justice (fair trials, proportionate retribution, rehabilitation programmes)
- Law (civil liberties, fair market practices)
- Knowledge (education, scientific research, historiography, preservation of artifacts)
- Good humour (satire, punctuating the pompous and powerful)
- Social harmony (living in peace without fear of being raped or murdered wherever you go)
Fine. But if there is a conscious fear that outsiders are arriving and actively trying to disrupt and corrupt these values, what do you say to natural-born, ethnic Europeans who don't subscribe to those values? There are plenty of European murderers, sex offenders, fraudsters and :censored:s in general who don't live by "our" values (their own values?). It is wrong to single one group out for a perceived lack of values but not other groups who have the same disregard.
Also, of those values I tried to think of, equality, justice, law are almost always set by politicians and influential, corrupt businessmen. You have no de facto say on that and most of your fellow countrymen/continental counterparts don't either, despite living in a nominal democracy. So are you living by values you didn't choose? Values set upon you by others?
The social values fall flat too, as I outlined above with regards to other people like you who don't follow them. Interesting paradigm: I can speak to one group of Slovaks and they'll talk about how much they hate negros, gays and anyone who isn't a Catholic but I can then go to a different bar/pub/restaurant across the road and find people who are happily tolerant with immigrants and people of other ethnicities. So what's the Slovak value here; hate foreigners or not? I don't know who to believe.
Basically, I feel that any discussion of this sort amounts to the No True Scotsman fallacy but make no mistake, without any sarcasm or arrogance I would happily welcome a further discussion about what our/your values are and how or why they are being corrupted by foreigners.
There is more than enough evidence of this 'unjustified invasion' if you'd be willing to see it. You were talking about official sources before.
Do you think it is odd that almost 75% of these refugees are young males?
Do you think it is odd that 60% of them aren't even from Iraq or Syria?
Do you think they embrace western values and atheism?
Do you think they will turn around their mindset and embrace womens rights?
Do you think they will turn around their mindset and be tolerant towards gay people?
Do you think it is odd that almost 75% of these refugees are young males?
Do you think it is odd that 60% of them aren't even from Iraq or Syria?
Do you think they embrace western values and atheism?
Do you think they will turn around their mindset and embrace womens rights?
Do you think they will turn around their mindset and be tolerant towards gay people?
Do you think everybody trying to migrate into Europe has that ancient world, theocratic, fascist and misogynist attitude?
See above about how other Europeans can be just as bad. Europe is neither secular nor atheist, not by a long shot. A lot of rampant homophobia and misogyny from white, ethnic born Europeans. What do you say to them?
See above about how other Europeans can be just as bad. Europe is neither secular nor atheist, not by a long shot. A lot of rampant homophobia and misogyny from white, ethnic born Europeans. What do you say to them?
Yes there is a murderer, rapist, racist or psychopath lurking in each one of us too. Does that mean we shouldn't judge murderers, rapists, racists or psychopaths?
Bit of a silly comparison used by a lot of the left wing 'do gooders' lately. Strange thing is that I see women wearing what they want on western streets without being molested, and i also see gays being able to live and do as they please without being molested. You think that would be the case if Shariah is implemented in Europe? Something a major part of Muslims would like to be the case?
Again, you need a source. The actions of a few are not representative of the whole; if they were, we could reasonably infer that everyone on this forum is terrified of a covert Muslim invasion - but we already know that they're not. I work with Muslims every single day; parents, students and fellow teachers. None of them have ever expressed a desire to see sharia law implemented.
Again, you need a source. The actions of a few are not representative of the whole; if they were, we could reasonably infer that everyone on this forum is terrified of a covert Muslim invasion - but we already know that they're not. I work with Muslims every single day; parents, students and fellow teachers. None of them have ever expressed a desire to see sharia law implemented.
You're asking for official sources that represent the mindset of the majority of the 1,5 million refugees that entered the EU last year, you know as well as me that is impossible to get so it serves as a way for you to avoid the discussion IMO. You haven't answered the questions i posted above yet neither:
Do you think it is odd that almost 75% of these refugees are young males?
Do you think it is odd that 60% of them aren't even from Iraq or Syria?
Do you think they embrace western values and atheism?
Do you think they will turn around their mindset and embrace womens rights?
Do you think they will turn around their mindset and be tolerant towards gay people?
About the Muslim people your work with, if they are practicing Muslims that actually go to the mosque please do ask them if they would mind Sharia law being implemented worldwide. Good chance they will answer that they would like for that to happen because after all Sharia law is made by God, and any other law is just man made thus inferior.
Good chance they will answer that they would like for that to happen because after all Sharia law is made by God, and any other law is just man made thus inferior.
Low chance, in fact. That's why you'll find many Muslim countries whose laws are not based on Shariah. If what you said was true (hint, it isn't) then that wouldn't be the case.
Firstly, I have fixed your grammar for you.
Secondly, and more importantly, why should I bother answering your questions when you can't be bothered to provide a decent source?
Low chance, in fact. That's why you'll find many Muslim countries whose laws are not based on Shariah. If what you said was true (hint, it isn't) then that wouldn't be the case.
It's true that there are many Muslim countries that do not impose strict sharia law so i'll give that one to you, but that doesn't take away that sharia law is a secret desire for a big part of the Muslim population, and once a Caliphate would potentially be installed, you can be sure that will end up being the law of the land.
You make the claim, you provide the evidence. If you can't provide the evidence, don't participate in the conversation. You can't have it both ways - you can't make the claims without providing evidence (what you provided failed to meet the minimum standard of proof) and then expect everyone to not simply accept your claims, but to bend over backwards answering further questions.
If you think that's appropriate, then you have no business being in this subforum.
Low chance, in fact. That's why you'll find many Muslim countries whose laws are not based on Shariah. If what you said was true (hint, it isn't) then that wouldn't be the case.
Just want to say hello from a majority muslim country (most people even) thats not used said law.
Also, im worried about a christian minority doing a silent take over here, spreading their values from within by making tons of children, and when the time is right imposing whatever they on about. So far nothing happened. I wonder why. /s
You make the claim, you provide the evidence. If you can't provide the evidence, don't participate in the conversation. You can't have it both ways - you can't make the claims without providing evidence (what you provided failed to meet the minimum standard of proof) and then expect everyone to not simply accept your claims, but to bend over backwards answering further questions.
If you think that's appropriate, then you have no business being in this subforum.
Oh look it's a standard reply from the 'forum responses guidebook 1.1'.
I already told you that you are asking for official sources that represent the majority of 1,5 million refugees which is currently impossible to present, so that gives you a reason to dodge the discussion as you can't come up with any other valid arguments.
Maybe try looking for some extra grammar mistakes in my posts which you can correct, it might also help you to reach the moral high ground you are desperately seeking here .
And what i find even more pathetic of you is that you are telling me that i have no part in this discussion because of that, what gives you the right to exclude anyone from a conversation?
Which means that the vast majority (near 90%) don't, you also forgot to mention that 93% of those polled stated that Muslims in Britain should always follow British Law.
And what i find even more pathetic of you is that you are telling me that i have no part in this discussion because of that, what gives you the right to exclude anyone from a conversation?
Nothing, but good basic grammar is required by the AUP and if you wish to make factual claims about any group then you should not be surprised if you are asked to back up such claims.
Not doing so doesn't stop you taking part in a discussion, but it does stop your claims being taken seriously.
Nothing, but good basic grammar is required by the AUP and if you wish to make factual claims about any group then you should not be surprised if you are asked to back up such claims.
Not doing so doesn't stop you taking part in a discussion, but it does stop your claims being taken seriously.
You are talking perfect grammar here instead of 'good basic grammar', a spelling mistake might just happen when there are a lot of non native speakers on your forum. I edited my original post so it can't be interpreted as 'factual' anymore...
Just want to say hello from a majority muslim country (most people even) thats not used said law.
Also, im worried about a christian minority doing a silent take over here, spreading their values from within by making tons of children, and when the time is right imposing whatever they on about. So far nothing happened. I wonder why. /s
Context is a bit different, as your country isn't dealing with a sudden influx of millions of Christian migrants with dubious motives. I wonder how you'd react should that be the case.
Yes there is a murderer, rapist, racist or psychopath lurking in each one of us too. Does that mean we shouldn't judge murderers, rapists, racists or psychopaths?
Not at all what I said. I didn't say there is a potential rapist, racist or psychopath inside each person, I said that there are actual rapists, racists, theocrats and psychopaths who are white, natural-born Europeans. Again, if your problem is with people you allege to be gang rapists, murderers, people or whatever, how do you respond to people from Europe who are like that? Has "their own culture" failed them? Why do white Christian countries produce bad people and have done for centuries? Surely that can't happen; Europe is the cradle of civilisation.
At no point have I said that there aren't migrants coming into Europe who are x, y, and z. It's almost certainly that there are at least a few. Statistical certainty. But you cannot hold one group of people to one standard and another group to another standard. It is discriminatory and borderline racist.
Bit of a silly comparison used by a lot of the left wing 'do gooders' lately. Strange thing is that I see women wearing what they want on western streets without being molested, and i also see gays being able to live and do as they please without being molested.
Again, nobody would deny that there are countries around the world which mistreat its people; Saudi Arabia and North Korea are despicable lands with despicable nepocracies. But if you think homophobia and misogyny aren't problems in Europe, then you are living in a dreamworld;
- Abortion is still illegal in Ireland and Malta; women die from needless medical complications every year because of it.
- Slovakia, Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Armenia, Moldova, Latvia, Lithuania and Hungary explicitly exclude homosexuals from marriage in its constitution. It's not just something unrecognised in law, it's constitutionally prohibited. Quite a few other countries have no recognition for same-sex marriage too.
Those are things in law, never mind the hassle homosexuals and women sustain in every day life across the continent. Women get accused of being sluts based on what they wear, or whether they turn someone down for sex. Homosexuals are ridiculed for their supposed promiscuity and indecency in public places. By everyone? No. But to deny that it happens and to insinuate that things here are, or would be, flawless without migrants is nonsense.
You are holding Europe, or maybe just Belgium, up to a standard which simply isn't true.
.
