Immigration

[JKgo]

...?
Of course those folks know what they are doing, when they decided to seek out greener pastures. What a strange thing to say.

And I don't quite get you when you say "both governments". Aussie and who else?

Oh, this is just my opinion, but even if the rules are relaxed, that doesn't mean the people on the ground would necessarily know about it, right?
In order for your new strategy to be well understood, wouldn't you do your best to advertise it? If Aussie gov doesn't want to accept immigrants, economic or otherwise, and want to make the journey "untenable", then wouldn't it make a lot more sense to advertise this in the origin of migration, to begin with?

Oi, I'm rambling. I gotta stop.

 

[mustafur]

...?
Of course those folks know what they are doing, when they decided to seek out greener pastures. What a strange thing to say.

And I don't quite get you when you say "both governments". Aussie and who else?

Oh, this is just my opinion, but even if the rules are relaxed, that doesn't mean the people on the ground would necessarily know about it, right?
In order for your new strategy to be well understood, wouldn't you do your best to advertise it? If Aussie gov doesn't want to accept immigrants, economic or otherwise, and want to make the journey "untenable", then wouldn't it make a lot more sense to advertise this in the origin of migration, to begin with?

Oi, I'm rambling. I gotta stop.

You missed my point entirely.

The people know exactly how to cheat the system is what im saying, there are far cheaper and safer ways to get into this country, there is no coincidence that the amount of people coming illegally goes up like crazy as soon as they make it easier to skip the queue.

And by both governments I mean our two major political parties Liberal and Labour.

I would say alot of these refugees have family or friends here telling them this way of skipping the queue or they have done the research themselves.

It's incredibly difficult to get residency in this country unless you have a Business sponser you or you have needed skills.

 

[JKgo]

You missed my point entirely.

The people know exactly how to cheat the system is what im saying, there are far cheaper and safer ways to get into this country, there is no coincidence that the amount of people coming illegally goes up like crazy as soon as they make it easier to skip the queue.

And by both governments I mean our two major political parties Liberal and Labour.

I would say alot of these refugees have family or friends here telling them this way of skipping the queue or they have done the research themselves.

It's incredibly difficult to get residency in this country unless you have a Business sponser you or you have needed skills.

...I'm sorry, but I think I'm still missing your point here.

You are saying there are "cheaper" and "safer" way to enter a country, yet you also mention in the same sentence that number of illegal migrants increased the moment "they" made it easier to skip a queue.

Uhm...

Soooo.... these queue jumpers are so impatient they would forego a cheaper and safer way and instead choose to get lightly drowned?

Edit: Man, I need to stop overthinking this. I'm rambling again...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Remmember there are legal ways that are significantly cheaper to getting in this country that don't require spending thousands of dollars to get on a barely floating vessel so they can try skip the queue.

Tell that to the Rohingya, who have no legal recognition of citizenship from the Myanmar government, and therefore no way of getting a passport or visa, and so cannot migrate.

You guys would be surprised how many of those people know exactly what they are doing by being in those boats, after all they are spending huge money getting on the boat in the first place.

The people smuggling business model has changed. They no longer charge thousands of dollars - instead, they charge the minimum, cram as many people on the boat as possible, cast off and take the money. They're making a profit through volume, taking the cheapest ships they can get and loading as many people as possible onto the vessel. And that's what you - and the government - have failed to recognise: that the situation has changed. Your way of thinking is a hangover from the Howard years, and is twenty years out of date because of the assumptions it makes about the smugglers.

 

[HKS racer]

Tell that to the Rohingya, who have no legal recognition of citizenship from the Myanmar government, and therefore no way of getting a passport or visa, and so cannot migrate.


The people smuggling business model has changed. They no longer charge thousands of dollars - instead, they charge the minimum, cram as many people on the boat as possible, cast off and take the money. They're making a profit through volume, taking the cheapest ships they can get and loading as many people as possible onto the vessel. And that's what you - and the government - have failed to recognise: that the situation has changed. Your way of thinking is a hangover from the Howard years, and is twenty years out of date because of the assumptions it makes about the smugglers.

I questions who these smugglers really are and who rule them. It's the third time I've being said recently by my customers that these smugglers must share money with Italian governament, money no one of our politicians obviously will speak about it ..or they will not aid their boats.
There are a lot of grey areas in this sad story.

 

[novcze]

http://www.uk-truckers.co.uk/calais.php

 

[Dennisch]

Resolving this issue is going great. 👍

France has closed its borders for any extra immigrants, saying thay it's a problem for the Italians. Harbors are getting swamped by immigrants who try to get into trucks that go to Great Britain.

Even the port of Rotterdam has seen the capture rate of immigrants tripled.

Highly efficient work of the EU. Kudos to them.

 

[Carbonox]

*cough* Language warning.

Friendly everyday fellow from Sweden explains what's going on in his country. I know in advance a lot of people will be sighing in relief that it's not Pat Condell talking about said country this time.

 

[KSaiyu]

I'll just say, if anyone reads only one of the links I post please read this to understand my frustration at the scale of immigration and my fears for my home town (not Dewsbury, but we have one who's been picture holding severed heads and another arrested for the Poppy day plot).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wsbury-undergone-terrible-transformation.html

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The fact that you think The Daily Mail - a newspaper with a reputation for exaggeration and blatant bias - qualifies as a reliable source destroys any credibility that you might have. Except that you don't have any credibility to begin with.

 

[KSaiyu]

Sorry what was I thinking, I forgot the PC rules. Will Malmo do?

 

[Scaff]

I forgot the PC rules.

It has nothing to do with PC rules, so please lay off the strawmen, its got to do with using sources that are known to be credible or not.

The Daily Mail has a long track record for simply making stories up or putting a bias in place that distorts facts, they are not seen by a large number as being an 'honest broker'.

As such it has nothing to do with being PC and everything to do with using sources that are actually credible.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The Daily Mail has a long track record for simply making stories up or putting a bias in place that distorts facts, they are not seen by a large number as being an 'honest broker'.

Not to mention the way they write for an audience - people who want reassurance that their way of life is "correct", and what better way to prove that than by running stories that show the way the country is falling apart because of the influence of people who don't have the "correct" way of life?

 

[KSaiyu]

This is unbelievable. You want to ignore the people of Dewsbury, Malmo and my town because we don't know what we see?

If it's not political correctness I want to know what it is. It affects everything, from health services and education, to law and order. It is not just confined to the media.

 

[Scaff]

This is unbelievable. You want to ignore the people of Dewsbury, Malmo and my town because we don't know what we see?

If it's not political correctness I want to know what it is. It affects everything, from health services and education, to law and order. It is not just confined to the media.

Quote anyone saying that please.

That's not even remotely what has been said and to claim otherwise is a gross misrepresentation of what has been said.

What was said is that the Daily Mail is known (and well known) for both exaggerated reporting and outright fantasy, and as such using them as a source can be seen as using a source that may not be presenting an honest and unbiased representation of the facts as they may be.

Just as you are doing by claim that others as dismissing the entire issue simply because they have stated that the source might very well have an agenda to present the facts in a certain manner and/or exaggerate/distort/make up elements to support a bias they are well know to have.

 

[eran0004]

*cough* Language warning.

Friendly everyday fellow from Sweden explains what's going on in his country. I know in advance a lot of people will be sighing in relief that it's not Pat Condell talking about said country this time.

Just because he happens to live in Sweden doesn't mean that he's telling the truth. He collects a bunch of quotes and presents them out of context, to justify his narrative. He's using fragments of truth to patch up a big fat lie.

This is unbelievable. You want to ignore the people of Dewsbury, Malmo and my town because we don't know what we see?

If it's not political correctness I want to know what it is. It affects everything, from health services and education, to law and order. It is not just confined to the media.

You know nothing about Malmö. Don't pretend like you do.

 

[KSaiyu]

Quote anyone saying that please.

That's not even remotely what has been said and to claim otherwise is a gross misrepresentation of what has been said.

What was said is that the Daily Mail is know (and well known) for both exaggerated reporting and outright fantasy, and as such using them as a source can be seen as using a source that may not be presenting an honest and unbiased representation of the facts as they may be.

Just as you are doing by claim that others as dismissing the entire issue simply because they have stated that the source might very well have an agenda to present the facts in a certain manner and/or exaggerate/distort/make up elements to support a bias they are well know to have.

The fact that you think The Daily Mail - a newspaper with a reputation for exaggeration and blatant bias - qualifies as a reliable source destroys any credibility that you might have. Except that you don't have any credibility to begin with.

Without credibility, my argument is effectively killed because it is unheard.

For giggles let's try a book from someone who actually grew up there.

You know nothing about Malmö. Don't pretend like you do.

I know enough about statistics. Do you live in a predominantly immigrant town in Sweden, by that I mean do you live in a ethnic-Swedish minority area? If you live in Malmö what is your argument against the article, statistics and other articles I can post in support?

I'll also ask you to prove where the speaker in the video is lying.

 

[Stavingo]

Meanwhile everything is daisy with government officials paying boats to turn around

Straya, gotta love it

 

[Carbonox]

Just because he happens to live in Sweden doesn't mean that he's telling the truth. He collects a bunch of quotes and presents them out of context, to justify his narrative. He's using fragments of truth to patch up a big fat lie.



You know nothing about Malmö. Don't pretend like you do.

I have zero reason to believe you until you quit with the bland "I know much better than him" attitude and show some proper evidence of why you think you're right.

How were the quotes (such as those from dear Mr. Reinfeldt) "presented out of context" anyway?

 

[Scaff]

Without credibility, my argument is effectively killed because it is unheard.

Do you really believe it acceptable to constantly misrepresent what I have said?

I have quite clearly stated that the issue is with your source and that it may not be a 100% reliable source of accurate, unbiased facts on the circumstances.

I have not said that any event didn't happen, nor have I effectively killed your argument. I'm saying that if you are taking the Mail at face value you are effectively doing that yourself.

For giggles let's try a book from someone who actually grew up there.

Do you ever even bother doing the most basic of sanity checks on your sources?

“If Derrick Bird had been carrying a Koran he would have been celebrated as a hero by tens of thousands, possibly more of so called “British” Muslims”, a direct quote from the man who calls members of the BNP friends.

A self published tome by a man with direct links to the British far right (he has admitted attending meetings with the NF, BNP, EDL and others) is not exactly an unbiased source. However that you use him as one does kind of explain why you seem to believe the Mail is a sound and reliable source, given that you just said 'lets ask the neo-nazi what he thinks'!

 

[Carbonox]

“If Derrick Bird had been carrying a Koran he would have been celebrated as a hero by tens of thousands, possibly more of so called “British” Muslims”, a direct quote from the man who calls members of the BNP friends.

Off-topic, but this is what pisses me off about the media. It'd be favorable if we all were just able to collectively forget about that name, and all others who made the same horrendous life choice, thus slowly erasing them out of existence. But nope, the media needs to ensure all the worst scum get the most attention and their names live on long after their dishonorable hides have passed on.

 

[Scaff]

Off-topic, but this is what pisses me off about the media. It'd be favorable if we all were just able to collectively forget about that name, and all others who made the same horrendous life choice, thus slowly erasing them out of existence. But nope, the media needs to ensure all the worst scum get the most attention and their names live on long after their dishonorable hides have passed on.

I both agree and disagree.

I think that the focus should be to remember the victims and survivors, but to forget utterly the perpetrators and what lead them to take the actions they did risks both diminishing the victims and survivors and allowing the circumstances of the events to repeat themselves.

 

[KSaiyu]

Do you really believe it acceptable to constantly misrepresent what I have said?

I have quite clearly stated that the issue is with your source and that it may not be a 100% reliable source of accurate, unbiased facts on the circumstances.

I have not said that any event didn't happen, nor have I effectively killed your argument. I'm saying that if you are taking the Mail at face value you are effectively doing that yourself.

Errr this is to PM. His argument means I can't use any mainstream newspaper he disagrees with, as all are guilty of this.

Do you ever even bother doing the most basic of sanity checks on your sources?

“If Derrick Bird had been carrying a Koran he would have been celebrated as a hero by tens of thousands, possibly more of so called “British” Muslims”, a direct quote from the man who calls members of the BNP friends.

A self published tome by a man with direct links to the British far right (he has admitted attending meetings with the NF, BNP, EDL and others) is not exactly an unbiased source. However that you use him as one does kind of explain why you seem to believe the Mail is a sound and reliable source, given that you just said 'lets ask the neo-nazi what he thinks'!

I know about Mr Lockwood. I know he's had to endure years of watching his area be taken over and the threat of his work be rubbished because of his links to an organisation that many in the North turn to when the PC establishment don't listen. I know that he's endured over a decades worth of provocation, and repeated accusations of racism and had to have his conviction for assault overturned when someone saw sense and realised that it's usually the idealistic members of society who can be the most dangerous.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Errr this is to PM. His argument means I can't use any mainstream newspaper he disagrees with, as all are guilty of this.

No, his argument is that you can only use reliable, credible sources. The Telegraph, for example, might have a political bent, but unlike The Daily Mail, it doesn't sensationalise stories because it has editorial standards. Of course, you're unlikely to find headlines that read IMMIGRANTS BAD or THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING! or the kind of things that you usually consider to be news.

You have been reminded time and time again about the need to supply credible, reliable sources as evidence of the claims that you make. You clearly haven't paid any attention.

 

[Scaff]

Errr this is to PM. His argument means I can't use any mainstream newspaper he disagrees with, as all are guilty of this.

You quoted me as well. Am I not allowed to reply?

I know about Mr Lockwood. I know he's had to endure years of watching his area be taken over and the threat of his work be rubbished because of his links to an organisation that many in the North turn to when the PC establishment don't listen. I know that he's endured over a decades worth of provocation, and repeated accusations of racism and had to have his conviction for assault overturned when someone saw sense and realised that it's usually the idealistic members of society who can be the most dangerous.

Accusations?

His newspaper was a mouthpiece for the far right, he has acknowledged links to the far right (including the National Front and EDL), he is a member of the far right. He self published a book that is seen as a touchstone and source of justification for those organisations.

Is that what you consider to be an unbiased source on what is occurring in the area?

 

[KSaiyu]

No, his argument is that you can only use reliable, credible sources. The Telegraph, for example, might have a political bent, but unlike The Daily Mail, it doesn't sensationalise stories because it has editorial standards. Of course, you're unlikely to find headlines that read IMMIGRANTS BAD or THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING! or the kind of things that you usually consider to be news.

You have been reminded time and time again about the need to supply credible, reliable sources as evidence of the claims that you make. You clearly haven't paid any attention.

So...the Daily Mail is out? Can I have a list of approved publications please, just for reference. Any chance of you disputing the claims in the Mail piece? Could I also have an alternative hypothesis as to why so many Islamic radicals have emerged from Dewsbury. Do you disagree with Manzoor Moghul, chairman of the Muslim forum when he says in the Daily Mail (sorry) that:

"We Muslims MUST stop blaming others for the way our young are radicalised"

You quoted me as well. Am I not allowed to reply?

Yes, but I presumed you wouldn't have a problem with my use of a Daily Mail story to highlight the problems of Dewsbury

Accusations?

His newspaper was a mouthpiece for the far right, he has acknowledged links to the far right (including the National Front and EDL), he is a member of the far right. He self published a book that is seen as a touchstone and source of justification for those organisations.

Is that what you consider to be an unbiased source on what is occurring in the area?

Wait is he a member of the far right?

I've attended Islamist meetings. I'm pretty sure I'm not an Islamist.

Then again a lot of the book that I've read so far isn't his opinion, but rather stories that have been kept buried by the PC brigade, such as:

During the editing of this manuscript ‘community cohesion ’ turned its blind eyes away from yet another unfortunate victim. Jack Carter, 39, a bystander caught up in a violent row between Asian and white neighbours, was killed when he was struck by a punch from Nazakat Alam and another man, Nisar Shah, stood on his head. Although both were at first charged with murder, Alam was allowed to plead guilty to manslaughter, Shah to a simple assault and he walked away with a suspended sentence while Alam was jailed for just 21 months. As the stunned family began their appeal against the leniency, Superintendent Dave Lunn stated righteously, and with no apparent sense of irony, that this showed how determined the police were to bringing criminals to court and getting justice. It happened right under their noses, for crying out loud ! What was the victim’s family to expect? A caution? Not long after the killing of Jack Carter the district was rocked by three nights of drive-by shootings involving Pakistani drug gangs. You probably didn’t read, see or hear of any of that, not even on regional tv news programmes, let alone News at Ten. So much of what happens here flies beneath the public radar – the police and authorities do their best to ensure that.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Can I have a list of approved publications please, just for reference.

There's a simple test: ask yourself "would I normally read this?", and if the answer is no, chances are that it's good.

 

[KSaiyu]

This is what I mean in my post in the Political Correctness thread. That isn't how we evolve our ideas and it's a dangerous road to start on. It would mean:

Zionists would only trust Zionist information.
Islamists would only trust Islamist information.
White Nationalists would only trust White Nationalist information.

Those are extremes you might say, but what about:

Centre left would only believe in the centre left's output
Socialists would only believe in socialist media
Centre right would only believe centre rightish media.

You might as well have Goebbel's on your shoulder selectively filtering what you read from the internet.

Let me tell you something that happened a few weeks ago. I saw a story on the Guardian about how the care budget could be affected by Tory cuts. I commented that this might create an incentive for the indigenous population to look after their elderly relatives. Naturally this didn't go down well, but instead of leaving the thread I continued listening to the "other side" and heard how so many families have been broken up and how impossible their situation is and how reliant they are on care services. This changed my outlook, and I realised that my initial post would have come across a bit "Tory scum", and left by saying how this experience would influence decisions made going forward in my career.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I've got a pretty good idea on how to evolve our ideas. It starts with cutting you out of the conversation. If you want to talk about evolution, you can start by losing the narrow-minded attitude.

 

[KSaiyu]

And that is how ISIS evolves.

"I've got a pretty good idea on how to evolve our ideas. It starts with cutting the kafir out of the conversation."

Or Nazism:

"I've got a pretty good idea on how to evolve our ideas. It starts with cutting the jews out of the conversation."