Immigration

  • Thread starter KSaiyu
  • 1,702 comments
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So, to summarise public opinion:

- **** goes down in the middle east, forcing millions of innocent families to either flee (and maybe die) or stay (and probably die).

- European people complain about the influx of refugees, and say they should stay home and their home country should sort their crap out

- One picture of a dead child (out of the thousands of dead people) gets attention

- European people demand something be done to help the refugees

- Everyone except the German government says "as long as we don't have to take them"

- Germany is criticised for taking them
 
Wonderful, isn't it?

All flippityfloppy like politicians.

Edit.

Germany sees a massive rise in attacks on refugee centres, Easter Europe doesn’t want the refugees at all.

It's a matter of time before the European Donald Trumps will gain popularity.
 
Don't forget the pro-government media propaganda in Syria criticising Western handling of the refugee influx. The obvious reasons why there are so many refugees abandoning their homeland being completely unreported; you know, using sarin and other chemical weapons against your own people and, on the other side, failing to keep back a militant group of theocratic fascists, who are more than willing to kill on sight.

The refugee crisis is neither just Western arrogance nor Western interference. We absolutely should do what we can to help these people but the root causes for why it is happening cannot and should not be forgotten.
 
Barra333
- One picture of a dead child (out of the thousands of dead people) gets attention
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the thing I don't get with that picture, people say that shows how Europe is doing wrong and need to change there ways because people are dieing, shorley its the countries that they are fleeing from that need to sort things out more?
 
There are two, quite independent problems at hand.
1. Why the refugees are leaving Syria/Afghanistan etc (not easily solved)
2. What is happening to them on arrival in Europe.

The issue is that the public/governments are using #1 as an excuse for doing nothing about #2. Oh, and the people most affected get no say in either, while the most vocal ones against the refugees do so from the comfort of a climate controlled dry home.
 
Barra333
There are two, quite independent problems at hand.
1. Why the refugees are leaving Syria/Afghanistan etc (not easily solved)
2. What is happening to them on arrival in Europe.

The issue is that the public/governments are using #1 as an excuse for doing nothing about #2. Oh, and the people most affected get no say in either, while the most vocal ones against the refugees do so from the comfort of a climate controlled dry home.
Click to expand...

Can't argue with that, really. Sad state of affairs.
 
This from ex UKIP candidate Peter Bucklitsch. The twattle feed appears to have been taken down now, I understand he did apologise some time after this twot.

bucklitsch.PNG
 
Dennisch
The idea of sending the boats back isn't all that bad. Especially in the Mediterranean, saves a lot of people from dying.
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Where, exactly, would you be sending them to? Libya? Syria? Do you know what they have in common? They're failed states, barely functioning, much less capable of handling a mass intake of refugees and with no infrastructure to process them much less prevent them or people smugglers from making another attempt.
 
prisonermonkeys
Where, exactly, would you be sending them to? Libya? Syria? Do you know what they have in common? They're failed states, barely functioning, much less capable of handling a mass intake of refugees and with no infrastructure to process them much less prevent them or people smugglers from making another attempt.
Click to expand...

As the politicians have been saying, create safe zones in said countries. Things will get out of hand if this influx of refugees will keep on going. The EU can't even agree on what to do with them.

Sooner or later military intervention is required wether we like it or not.
 
A2K78
You do understand that this migrant crisis was man-made, right? That said should european governments/taxpayers shoulder the burden of a situation that driven by someone foolish policies, in this case Merkel and hr blind support for Assad ouster.
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So what you are basically saying is.

You don't mind people dying if it allows a few other people to get a new flat screen TV?
 
lxmmy
Hence why I said 'war torn country' as which I would partly pinned this crisis down to the lack of response by the UN and Arab League to help resolve the Syria civil war.

Please state the 'foolish' policies. Because your points are getting more repititive and vague.
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Foolish policies as in the one spearhead by NATO to oust Assad...
 
Dennisch
As the politicians have been saying, create safe zones in said countries. Things will get out of hand if this influx of refugees will keep on going. The EU can't even agree on what to do with them.

Sooner or later military intervention is required wether we like it or not.
Click to expand...

The best part of 40bn was spent on that army base and running it in Helmund which was dismantled recently by the British Army....I'd like to think a fraction of that is all that would be needed to create 'Humane holding centres' in stable regions until it's sorted.
 
That's just wonderful. Action at last. Oh wait, it's pro Assad.

So nice and complicated. Excellent stuff.

Ah well. Maybe Putin can advice Assad to eventually step down.
 
You can't just stick a bunch of tents somewhere and call it a refugee camp. It takes years to build the necessary infrastructure (water, sanitation, service roads, medical facilities) and be sure it will not flood, be buried by sand or turn to a mud bath.

Even once you've established that, you're then left with an idle population doing nothing, which usually means they end up doing something! Some of that may be unhelpful, some might prove productive. But you still risk an exodus when people realise their lives are on pause and they're effectively economic prisoners.

Integrate these people into other societies, because that's the only way they have a future and they won't be requiring support for decades to come.
 
ExigeEvan
You can't just stick a bunch of tents somewhere and call it a refugee camp.
Click to expand...

Except... you can. We do it with large FoBs, we'd be building these closer to home using the same skills and resources but with the advantage of being much closer.
 
TenEightyOne
Except... you can. We do it with large FoBs, we'd be building these closer to home using the same skills and resources but with the advantage of being much closer.
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It took 8 years for Bastion to get where it was. Populated by disciplined troops, small civilian presence and even then it wasn't particularly comfortable for quite a long time.

Benefits of bore holes on site and flat, blank-canvas ground to build on. Could it be done? Yes, of course. But it won't be quick and it doesn't answer either problem, how do we stem the flow and where do these people go.

Sticking these people in the desert with no future isn't an answer.
 
Dennisch
That's just wonderful. Action at last. Oh wait, it's pro Assad.

So nice and complicated. Excellent stuff.

Ah well. Maybe Putin can advice Assad to eventually step down.
Click to expand...

Maybe Putin can work out something with the West, like storming the freakin' place and then split the territory, something like Yalta Conference no.2, we could bring them peace, ehh?

But then again, we will be the bad ones. :)
 
TenEightyOne
Yalta hardly worked out so well last time around...
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hehe I should have put in more smileys ... of course it didn't work out, West kept their own territory and everything else was thrown under Soviet influence, which came as no surprise because West was ok when Hitler took Poland and everything else on the east, so why not leave it to Stalin.
 
novcze
hehe I should have put in more smileys ... of course it didn't work out, West kept their own territory and everything else was thrown under Soviet influence, which came as no surprise because West was ok when Hitler took Poland and everything else on the east, so why not leave it to Stalin.
Click to expand...

Fair enough :)
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/08/world/europe/europe-migrant-crisis.html?_r=0
The numbers those European nations have agreed to accept are much smaller than the numbers of those who have entered the Continent, and who continue to arrive. And many countries, especially in Eastern Europe, are balking at accepting more than a token number.

Germany has received more applicants than any other European Union nation, with more than 154,000 migrants seeking asylum from January to June, up from 68,000 in the same period last year. When adjusted for population, Hungary and Sweden are among the top recipients.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...est-as-eu-pushes-refugee-redistribution-plans
The European Union will this week announce plans to redistribute 120,000 migrants who have arrived in Greece, Italy and Hungary, as the bloc moves to address the biggestrefugee crisis since World War II.

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker will unveil the proposals on Wednesday, saying the best way to cope with the sudden influx of people fleeing war and poverty in Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East and north Africa is to spread them across the 28-nation bloc -- from Finland in the north to Spain in the south.

-1x-1.png


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-1x-1.png
 
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novcze
Maybe Putin can work out something with the West, like storming the freakin' place and then split the territory, something like Yalta Conference no.2, we could bring them peace, ehh?
Click to expand...
No, thanks.

When the West looks for an ass to shut an embrasure with, they remember about Russia. But when Russia follows its own interests, resisting the NATO expansion to its borders - it's an agressor and sanctions are being imposed. This is unfair, IMO.

We would get involved in the Syrian conflict for our own interests - not to betray Assad (who the West is hostile to), whose army is bleeding and was retreating for the last 5 months under ISIS offence.

Meanwhile: Fox News suspects Russia and China of the European refugee crisis. :sly:
(sorry, can't find the vid to embed here, but it's available there: http://russian.rt.com/inotv/2015-09-07/Fox-News-obvinil-Rossiyu-v)
We know how much Putin loves Europe in terms of being able to give Europe a problem to deal with the refugees...
Click to expand...
 
Rage Racer
When the West looks for an ass to shut an embrasure with, they remember about Russia. But when Russia follows its own interests, resisting the NATO expansion to its borders - it's an agressor and sanctions are being imposed. This is unfair, IMO.
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ahh Russian paranoia about evil NATO ... states around Russia want to be in the NATO because they fear Russian "interests" which often in history resulted in invasion and occupation.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ve-plans-overhaul-of-european-asylum-policies

... kick us out of EU please.




This was written a year ago by Germans:

Germany and the Visegrad Countries (V4) Ten Years after the EU Enlargement

"In the Czech Republic, on the other hand, a palpable sense of Euroskepticism is on the rise. Large portions of the Czech public no longer see the EU as capable of solving problems but see it, rather, as a cause of problems."

haha and imagine public opinion now in this refugee fiasco
 
novcze
states around Russia want to be in the NATO because they fear Russian "interests" which often in history resulted in invasion and occupation.
Click to expand...
But isn't this paranoia, too? :P
What if I tell you that we're now a different country from what we were back then and we do not intend to conquer Europe? :sly:

Anyway, it goes off the topic.
 

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