- 12,620
- paracuru
- praiano63
I'll try the M3 CSL later, need to buy one first, i only have a GTR 03, with foil. Fantastic cars...... Give a try to my Lotus esprit sport too , i'm shure you'll love it....
Infamous Tunes * New Garage Name * New Release The R-Evolution *
- Thread starter No_OBsT33R
- 437 comments
- 45,778 views
I'll try the M3 CSL later, need to buy one first, i only have a GTR 03, with foil. Fantastic cars...... Give a try to my Lotus esprit sport too , i'm shure you'll love it....
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
Incredibly, she's a beast, Composed on S tires o_O see for yourself 
for me I just ran 2 laps at TGTT and hit 1:11 the second lap on S/Softs. It can be improved upon for sure but shows a capable car on S tires.
I just updated the set up with a adjusted spring rate to accommodate the ride height offset (it fricken works) this car is SICK!
New spring rate 12.8/9.9 original tune post updated.
for me I just ran 2 laps at TGTT and hit 1:11 the second lap on S/Softs. It can be improved upon for sure but shows a capable car on S tires.I just updated the set up with a adjusted spring rate to accommodate the ride height offset (it fricken works) this car is SICK!
New spring rate 12.8/9.9 original tune post updated.
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- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
👍👍
I'll give it a good thrashing when I've the time, thanks...
{Cy}
I'll give it a good thrashing when I've the time, thanks...
{Cy}
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
CyKosis1973
Kool
I ran her for a few laps on S Tires at TGTT, hit 1:11 second lap. Not bad, much room for improvement, but shows pick up and go on s tires.
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
Onboy123
"Big Boys"? Okay. Sure Thing
Incredible car, we got BMW to thank for that. We need them to do a current model M3 CSL.
BTW anybody know what CSL stands for?
Onboy123
Premium
- 8,872
- Hong Kong
- Onboy123
Oh dear…please don't tell me we're in for another round of bickering and arguing cuz RJ is getting a bit suspicious that people are taking his tunes and giving them minute changes (a trend started by Mazdaman, I think…but what do I know). Still, it'll be good to see the difference in tuning styles between RJ and Roj and how they'll fair against No_OBsT33R's.
Edit: use Wikipedia and search for it.
Edit: use Wikipedia and search for it.
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
rotary junkiewe're not.
I know for damn sure noobsteer isn't who requested the car and has never ever seen my setup for it.
x2.
Found it
"Coupé Sport Leichtbau"
In any event the requester who RJ tuned the car for should post up the settings RJ provided, this way we can see if it is RJ who is stealing from me.
o_O
I doubt there is too much similar with our Tunes as our styles up until now have yielded such different results. I was just showing what the shoe looks like on the other foot.
Back to the CSL Tune, she's great at the Nurb breaks 6 min without a sweat. Under 6:50 if you push her.
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- 12,620
- paracuru
- praiano63
Ok i've finish to test the CSL. It's a very good tune, his balance is perfect. Under brake, acceleration, during a long turn... Allways on the line with good grip. Perhaps a too soft spring rate for my style. So i do some modifications to adapt to my drive: stiffer springs, lower front ride, less TOE (-0.08/+0.05) ,more camber in front. It stay perfect for me like this ,but this changes only increase pleasure to drive it my way. The time around the track was the same , as fast as the other.
So congratulations for one more very good tune.
Just one more thing, why don't you tune a CSL not a GTR ???
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Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
Impossible given I sent the PM to him months ago.
Anyway, here they are. I love the Premo inbox size, otherwise I wouldn't be able to post this
Gearing: Reset to default, "top speed" to 124, final to 2.000, then set ratios as follows:
[4.482/3.287/2.602/2.200/1.900/1.627]
LSD: 7/29/5
Suspension:
-20/-15
12.5/9.5
9/9
6/6
2/6
2.0/2.9
-0.15/0.00
Brakes: 5/9
- 506
- Dublin... Irela
- Theewar / GTP_Theewar / GTDrivers_RI
BMW M3 CSL
I just spent 6laps with this car around the NS and Got a 6'37.750,with a few mistakes but no cuts.I dont use ABS much these days but for this test I did,and RS tyres are a real treat to me as most of the groups I am a member of run RH or SH.
The car overall is very good to drive,theres no Surprises when braking which is always a good thing,brakes are fantastic but how much of that is down to the RS tyres Iam not sure.
Acceleration is worry free,you can plant the throttle and the car keeps pointing in the right direction.The cars turn in at low to Medium speeds was great,140+MPH being Medium speeds.The car however didnt handle some of the faster bends as well,due to it skipping over some of the bumps and leaving the road during the turn or at least the front tyres leaving the road.
The gearbox was ok as far as it done the job,but I feel It may have been somewhat neglected,dont get me wrong,I could see it was worked on,but perhaps a little more could have been done.
Like I said at the start,overall this is a very good setup.I would say it can lap the NS in less than 6'30.xxx,done by better drivers than me,but anyone could drive this car and feel like a star. Well done
I just spent 6laps with this car around the NS and Got a 6'37.750,with a few mistakes but no cuts.I dont use ABS much these days but for this test I did,and RS tyres are a real treat to me as most of the groups I am a member of run RH or SH.
The car overall is very good to drive,theres no Surprises when braking which is always a good thing,brakes are fantastic but how much of that is down to the RS tyres Iam not sure.
Acceleration is worry free,you can plant the throttle and the car keeps pointing in the right direction.The cars turn in at low to Medium speeds was great,140+MPH being Medium speeds.The car however didnt handle some of the faster bends as well,due to it skipping over some of the bumps and leaving the road during the turn or at least the front tyres leaving the road.
The gearbox was ok as far as it done the job,but I feel It may have been somewhat neglected,dont get me wrong,I could see it was worked on,but perhaps a little more could have been done.
Like I said at the start,overall this is a very good setup.I would say it can lap the NS in less than 6'30.xxx,done by better drivers than me,but anyone could drive this car and feel like a star. Well done
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
Rotary JunkieImpossible given I sent the PM to him months ago.
Anyway, here they are. I love the Premo inbox size, otherwise I wouldn't be able to post this
Gearing: Reset to default, "top speed" to 124, final to 2.000, then set ratios as follows:
[4.482/3.287/2.602/2.200/1.900/1.627]
LSD: 7/29/5
Suspension:
-20/-15
12.5/9.5
9/9
6/6
2/6
2.0/2.9
-0.15/0.00
Brakes: 5/9
You did great on the SR for this car, I'm surprised our values are so close across the board. Crazy brakes IMO, quite a bit of tail dragging in your style?
Have you got a Supra RZ? (it's my next release.) I'm very curious as to the spring rate you might come up with for it.
I feel WE hit the nail on the head with the M3 the few variations can account for different driving styles (my guessing RJ likes to brake real late and trail into the corner on the brakes, grabs corner speed neutral and throttles hard on exit) I like to do most of my braking before entry with no dragging & hold the corner with the throttle increasing as I exit. Different strokes visible in the variations.
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
Thanks for the reviews Theewar & Praian63 appreciate you guys giving it a spin. I'm stoked she performs for you as she does for me.
I also feel I need to touch up the gears, I didn't feel like I was getting as much as I could out of 6th on the Nurb Straight. I did tune in some rpm's on reserve for the draft, but since PSN is down and mostly hot laps are being done I'm going to address that.
Great car for an ego boost huh, I jump in and every lap I feel more like Senna.
I also feel I need to touch up the gears, I didn't feel like I was getting as much as I could out of 6th on the Nurb Straight. I did tune in some rpm's on reserve for the draft, but since PSN is down and mostly hot laps are being done I'm going to address that.
Great car for an ego boost huh, I jump in and every lap I feel more like Senna.
- 7
- B_Diddy_203
Thanks for the M3 tune. I'm new to racing games ( just started gt5 a month ago ) and this car is so stable for even me to drive and feel like I am doing well.
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
Report time.
So, I've got one of these CSLs parked in the garage and I thought I'd try some spring settings for it. Cunningly I now have two different setups to try, thanks to No_OBsT33R and Rotary Junkie.
As this is No_OBsT33R's thread, I started with his setup. Let me just state from the word go that I only have one of these cars, and I do have future plans for it. As I've not seen another one in the UCD yet, all I'm going to do is test suspension and LSD settings. I'm not taking any weight off of the car, nor adding any extra power. If I see another CSL in the UCD, then I'll maybe build the car as specified here. In the meantime, and just to recap, all I've done to the car is oil it, rebuild the engine and chassis, slapped on a set of S3s, FC suspension and FC LSD, that's it.
As is fitting for this car, I took it to the Green Hell. I applied both builds to the car and took it out for three 1 lap A-Spec One-Make races. All aids off bar ABS 1, grip set to 'real' and tyre wear enabled.
No_OBsT33R. As has been commented on further up the thread, these two builds seem to share some commonality. Don't be fooled however, these two builds drive very differently. No_OBsT33R's build has the pivot point around the centre of the car, leaving it well balanced. It turns in nicely and pivots smoothly and allows you to get on the power quite quickly. There's plenty of grip in the corners and it pulls nicely. My only real problem was braking. Most of my 'offs' were due to over doing the braking. It is possible that tightening the brake strength will assist with this. I was unable to put in a clean lap, although I did do slightly better than with RJ's build.
Rotary Junkie. My word, how to polarise a car..!! The pivot point is now the front, with the rear moving around it. The swinging of the rear is induced either with braking or acceleration. At first it completely unnerved me, I was unable to slow the car down going into a corner without the rear overtaking me!! Eventually, as I eased up on my braking I was able to post my fastest laptime. But my god was I hanging on by my fingernails the entire lap, and I wasn't able to replicate it after that.
The levels of grip are comparable between these builds. The biggest single difference between them is the centre of rotation and the braking. RJ's build is unequivocally faster, but No_OBsT33R's is easier to drive, for me. The other noticeable difference is that No_OBsT33R's build 'pulls' the car along, whilst RJ's 'pushes'. Both of these builds only serve to show just how good this car is, it's been a while since a car has made me grin like this.
Just before I sign off, I thought I'd try this car with some spring settings that I've been working on for the E92 M3. I wasn't sure if they'd work with an E46 M3. Turns out they work brilliantly. Not only was I able to set fast lap times using them, but I was also able to make clean laps. My spring settings are a lot more in line with real world settings, with the bias to the rear. My dampers are still experimental and on the E92 car have undergone some significant change.
Is there any chance that No_OBsT33R or RJ (or anybody) would be willing to look at a rear biased build..??
So, I've got one of these CSLs parked in the garage and I thought I'd try some spring settings for it. Cunningly I now have two different setups to try, thanks to No_OBsT33R and Rotary Junkie.
As this is No_OBsT33R's thread, I started with his setup. Let me just state from the word go that I only have one of these cars, and I do have future plans for it. As I've not seen another one in the UCD yet, all I'm going to do is test suspension and LSD settings. I'm not taking any weight off of the car, nor adding any extra power. If I see another CSL in the UCD, then I'll maybe build the car as specified here. In the meantime, and just to recap, all I've done to the car is oil it, rebuild the engine and chassis, slapped on a set of S3s, FC suspension and FC LSD, that's it.
As is fitting for this car, I took it to the Green Hell. I applied both builds to the car and took it out for three 1 lap A-Spec One-Make races. All aids off bar ABS 1, grip set to 'real' and tyre wear enabled.
No_OBsT33R. As has been commented on further up the thread, these two builds seem to share some commonality. Don't be fooled however, these two builds drive very differently. No_OBsT33R's build has the pivot point around the centre of the car, leaving it well balanced. It turns in nicely and pivots smoothly and allows you to get on the power quite quickly. There's plenty of grip in the corners and it pulls nicely. My only real problem was braking. Most of my 'offs' were due to over doing the braking. It is possible that tightening the brake strength will assist with this. I was unable to put in a clean lap, although I did do slightly better than with RJ's build.
Rotary Junkie. My word, how to polarise a car..!! The pivot point is now the front, with the rear moving around it. The swinging of the rear is induced either with braking or acceleration. At first it completely unnerved me, I was unable to slow the car down going into a corner without the rear overtaking me!! Eventually, as I eased up on my braking I was able to post my fastest laptime. But my god was I hanging on by my fingernails the entire lap, and I wasn't able to replicate it after that.
The levels of grip are comparable between these builds. The biggest single difference between them is the centre of rotation and the braking. RJ's build is unequivocally faster, but No_OBsT33R's is easier to drive, for me. The other noticeable difference is that No_OBsT33R's build 'pulls' the car along, whilst RJ's 'pushes'. Both of these builds only serve to show just how good this car is, it's been a while since a car has made me grin like this.
Just before I sign off, I thought I'd try this car with some spring settings that I've been working on for the E92 M3. I wasn't sure if they'd work with an E46 M3. Turns out they work brilliantly. Not only was I able to set fast lap times using them, but I was also able to make clean laps. My spring settings are a lot more in line with real world settings, with the bias to the rear. My dampers are still experimental and on the E92 car have undergone some significant change.
Is there any chance that No_OBsT33R or RJ (or anybody) would be willing to look at a rear biased build..??
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
Okay, this scares me now. Noobsteer must be the "safest" tuner around, cos normally I tune my stuff on the safe side compared to most. Then again, I did set my CSL to be a bit on the loose side on entry... Also of note is that I tend to compensate for braking instability with left-foot braking just so I can keep it available to bring the car back from braking a bit late.
As for the rear biased build, I dunno... I'd expect it to push a bit in the E46 but I know it's necessary to keep the E90 in check. Probably safer but perhaps a bit slower at max effort.
As for the rear biased build, I dunno... I'd expect it to push a bit in the E46 but I know it's necessary to keep the E90 in check. Probably safer but perhaps a bit slower at max effort.
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
Thanks for running the Tune, much appreciate you guys giving it a go & taking the time to review them. RJ's Tune & mine do represent different driving styles for sure.
I usually build my cars around driver friendliness , they are intended usually to provide a good fun car for the average Joe with varying skill levels.
I think the game gets better for people when they can enjoy the cars without cracking their heads over tuning them if they don't know how, don't have the time, or just enjoy experiencing other tuners take on a car.
Personally I enjoy cracking my head over them o_O I'm not in it to win any competitions, just High Quality GT5 Tunes, providing fun cars to drive that go fast.
I enjoy this series more than any other if I can help people enjoy the game as I do, the series will continue to grow.
I remember a time when NFS style games were all anybody liked to play, I'd suggest some GT1 and people never wanted any of it (heaven forbid they will have to use the brakes) now even NFS is trying to be more like GT.
o_O
I usually build my cars around driver friendliness , they are intended usually to provide a good fun car for the average Joe with varying skill levels.
I think the game gets better for people when they can enjoy the cars without cracking their heads over tuning them if they don't know how, don't have the time, or just enjoy experiencing other tuners take on a car.
Personally I enjoy cracking my head over them o_O I'm not in it to win any competitions, just High Quality GT5 Tunes, providing fun cars to drive that go fast.
I enjoy this series more than any other if I can help people enjoy the game as I do, the series will continue to grow.
I remember a time when NFS style games were all anybody liked to play, I'd suggest some GT1 and people never wanted any of it (heaven forbid they will have to use the brakes) now even NFS is trying to be more like GT.
o_O
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
I suspect my driving style is more akin to No_OBsT33R's. Once I stopped mashing the brakes using your build, I was able to control how much the rear slid on brakes alone. However, I couldn't manage the rear consistently enough. Any corner that requires straight line braking or the deftest of touches, I managed. But anything that required braking into a corner, I had to fight the rear end. I should have perhaps also stated a bit earlier that I use a bog-standard six-axis controller to race. If I was using wheel & pedals I suspect braking would be a lot easier to manage, for both builds. Also worth mentioning I don't have the reactions I used to have 20 years ago 
Give the above rear biased springs a go. It is indeed very safe, with the slightest of understeer in slow corners, but it's got bags of grip and really applies it well. I read a bit about owners not being happy with the understeer of the OEM springs and replacing them with aftermarket, front biased ones. However, I've also noticed that HKS springs are exclusively rear biased, and lets be honest, they should know what they're talking about. I'm not 100% certain of the dampers, and I've had to make my own judgements on toe and camber.
{Cy}
Give the above rear biased springs a go. It is indeed very safe, with the slightest of understeer in slow corners, but it's got bags of grip and really applies it well. I read a bit about owners not being happy with the understeer of the OEM springs and replacing them with aftermarket, front biased ones. However, I've also noticed that HKS springs are exclusively rear biased, and lets be honest, they should know what they're talking about. I'm not 100% certain of the dampers, and I've had to make my own judgements on toe and camber.
{Cy}
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
CyKosis1973I suspect my driving style is more akin to No_OBsT33R's. Once I stopped mashing the brakes using your build, I was able to control how much the rear slid on brakes alone. However, I couldn't manage the rear consistently enough. Any corner that requires straight line braking or the deftest of touches, I managed. But anything that required braking into a corner, I had to fight the rear end. I should have perhaps also stated a bit earlier that I use a bog-standard six-axis controller to race. If I was using wheel & pedals I suspect braking would be a lot easier to manage, for both builds. Also worth mentioning I don't have the reactions I used to have 20 years ago
Give the above rear biased springs a go. It is indeed very safe, with the slightest of understeer in slow corners, but it's got bags of grip and really applies it well. I read a bit about owners not being happy with the understeer of the OEM springs and replacing them with aftermarket, front biased ones. However, I've also noticed that HKS springs are exclusively rear biased, and lets be honest, they should know what they're talking about. I'm not 100% certain of the dampers, and I've had to make my own judgements on toe and camber.
{Cy}
Nice to hear Bro
For the stock weight test I'd like to mention the brakes are tuned around reduced weight and are close to as minimal as possible to allow 0 ABS, most use 1 abs but I like my set up to accept it for drivers transitioning over to 0 ABS. For more mass they would need to be increased to account for the extra weight. If you tell me the stock weight (I only have 1) I can tune them around stock weight.
With ABS 1 (fully tuned car) you should be able to bury the pedal to brake into corners, without much ill consequence, and regulate-able with controlled inputs.
Do you know the Spring rates are for those aftermarket springs?
Are they close to...
Front
447 lb/in
Rear
391 lb/in
???
Thats what the default values are with a tunable suspension.
My set up uses
Front
715 lb/in
Rear
553 lb/in
I wouldn't mind seeing the effect of those IRL Aftermarket Spring Rates.
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No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
theewarstock weight. 1385KG.I have two of them
Nice!! I'll have it for yah as soon as I get home.
. I need another, tuning puts on some miles.I'm going to look for those HKS spring rates & some Eibach's to compare.
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
Wow those are seriously Soft.
240/370 H&R (I hear works best with Koni)
155/375-750 Eibach (I hear work best with Bilstein)
When I get home I'm going to analyze this a bit. I do think they are "street" tuned, but wow those are some soft front rates. Probably mated to very high setting dampers, from looking I would assume the Bilstein's are potentially stiffer at high settings than the Koni.
Could be they aim at left foot nose dive control/stability for aggressive driving but safe street driving (sudden emergency stops, pot holes, gravel on the road, cracks on the road etc) I Will play with them when I get home, should be interesting.
240/370 H&R (I hear works best with Koni)
155/375-750 Eibach (I hear work best with Bilstein)
When I get home I'm going to analyze this a bit. I do think they are "street" tuned, but wow those are some soft front rates. Probably mated to very high setting dampers, from looking I would assume the Bilstein's are potentially stiffer at high settings than the Koni.
Could be they aim at left foot nose dive control/stability for aggressive driving but safe street driving (sudden emergency stops, pot holes, gravel on the road, cracks on the road etc) I Will play with them when I get home, should be interesting.
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Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
Well if memory serves the E46 runs McStruts up front and multilink out back which means equal frequency requires a higher rear spring rate... GT seems to disregard motion ratio on the E46 but not E92; the E92 needs/wants a stiffer rear to keep it from rolling excessively and going out from underneath it but E46 is fine without it... I dunno.
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
Rotary Junkie
GT definitely got there rates correct (you can confirm stock Spring Rate values online) & they certainly do factor in the correction factor of the suspension. The Springs are balanced to vehicle weight. I have the suspension correction factors calculated at home for the CSL. If I remember correctly the front has a higher correction factor than the rear. Meaning it takes more clicks of the front than the rear to equally adjust the springs, keeping the balance the same.
when the tunable suspension is used they increase the SR's default values proportionately, they don't represent a "tuned" spring, just proportionately stiffer, and equal frequencies front and rear.
The aftermarket springs go stiff rear with soft front (even when you factor in the correction factor) This is also confirmed IRL, and is reversed to the aftermarket springs we see here, BMW sold the car with a higher Spring Rate in the Front Vs Rear, the tuners reversed it
The type of SR used in my set up would be illegal for road use for sure (at least around here) aftermarket companies (and the spring rates from real life that we are looking at) are for the streets during the week, and the occasional track event on the weekend.
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- 506
- Dublin... Irela
- Theewar / GTP_Theewar / GTDrivers_RI
After doing some more laps in the CSL around the NS,this time with ABS-OFF,I found it a real joy to drive.Brakes set up at F4 and R3,everything else is still the same.I also ran it in a 3lap same car race with fuel and tyre wear on and the times are quite good compared to times with ABS-ON.
Lap1 fromj standing start=6'44
Lap2=6'42
Lap3=6'43 with tyres just over 1/4 gone.
Each lap had mistakes on them but still no cuts or it would not count for me.
In my other post I said the gearbox could do with some more work on it,well I now think only 6th gear needs work,the rest work perfect the closer you get to the cars full potential or the more I understand it.
I stll dont like the way the car reacts to some bumps,its more where the bumps are and how you want the car behaving at these points.The flat out long left hander.(The passage after Bergwerk bend looks simple on the map. You take the three wide left-hand bends in fourth gear,ideally with an almost constant steering position),well the first part is where the problem is.The car hops over towards the right of the track.
For me this car is better and more fun with ABS-OFF.I cant say ABS off is for everyone,but I would say give it a go..
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
I suspected just tightening the brakes up a little would suffice. I'm running the CSL at stock weight for the moment (as per theewar's post, 1385kg).
If I remember rightly, I took my original E92 M3 spring rates from a set of KSport coilovers
SR F: 7.5kg/420lb
SR R: 10kg/560lb
I only had the spring rates, no bound/rebound, camber or toe figures, so I had to take a punt at them.
I've got four more potential suspension setups (HKS) to try for E90 and E46 3 Series Bimmers. Three of them are softer than the above 7.5kg/10kg KSport springs, the fourth is super hard. I'm still trying to prove I can convert bound/rebound figures. I've also got a bunch of Tein spring rates to try...
{Cy}
