Initial Torque: What do you do?

[Poppins]

I don't buy into all these percentages. If it helps you get your head around it then fine, but you can't present such exact formulas without any evidence. Now if you could go devise a test to prove your theory, I'd be impressed.

Im pretty sure after all of my testing that it is exact %s. You never need more then 95% torque or less then 40% torque to a single wheel and if you test you will notice that it just affects how easy it locks up. With it at 60 it locks up very easily and 5 barely at all unless your accel setting is higher but that is due to it not letting the tires speed differ so much.

You also never need more then 95% speed difference between the tires or less then 40% (how "much" it locks and how much slip there is between the two) which is what Accel Sensitivity does.

an example for this is 5/5/20 where you will get barely any lock, and 60/5/20 where you will get lock because even though the speed is allowed to differ by 95% the initial torque overrides that and only allows maximum 40% torque to go to one wheel before it locks, which effectively OVERRIDES that acceleration value without changing the amount of slip allowed *SEE FORMULA BELOW* (this is unrecommended though because even though it makes you have higher accel sens your still going to lock up too easy when coasting and such and have understeer problems)

NOW, here is where i realized that although IT can override AS, it cannot effectively change it, while the opposite is true and AS can effectively change IT.

do the opposite with 5/60/20 and you will see that it locks yet again, but this time the accel sens is overriding the initial torque and is the cause, because even though it wants to allow 95% torque to go to one wheel, the diff wont allow that completely because the amount of wheel speed difference allowed is only 40%, which effectively changes that 95% torque to the one wheel to only (1.00 / 0.60 [because with 40% difference max the slower wheel MUST spin 60% the speed of the faster wheel] = 1.6667 ----> 95 / 1.6667 = 57) into 57% of torque to one wheel which is equivalent to having an LSD setting of 43/60/20 with the advantage of it not being so prone to understeer and violent.

this is also why having it set to the middle and having them close to each other helps strike the careful balance without them overriding each other.

Even having it set to 20/40/20 causes override and results in 68% of torque to one wheel before it locks instead of 80%, which is just like having it set to 32/40/20 the more the two differ the more override you are going to get and the higher # always overrides the lower #.

the only thing i can come up with for #'s that are = such as 10/10/xx 30/30/xx 60/60/xx is that they just plain dont override each other because if they did it would be extremely locked for even low #'s so i think that they only relate from each other if the #s are different.

this is also why i think having them set equal to each other is good to an extent as they wont override each other.

if you are like me though i find 5/60/XX to be the best because it doesnt affect how much lock up i have compared to a lower accel value as well as not having the understeer constantly that a high initial torque causes and still allows me to have an EFFECTIVE 40 for Initial Torque (UNDER ACCELERATION ONLY), which is why it locks so fast.

THIS IS ALL COMPLETE THEORYCRAFTING, with some mad maths here, dont even know if its right but thats the only way i can see it ever being after all of my calculations and extensive hours of testing.

BUT IT DOES SAY IN THE GAME THAT THEY AFFECT AND RELATE TO EACH OTHER!

TAKE NOTE! I DIDNT TAKE DECEL VALUES INTO ACCOUNT AT ALL HERE AND ONLY LOCK UNDER ACCELERATION
all of this math i just did makes me very happy though and makes me understand how it works so, so much better.

Sry, but I cannot agree to this. I just took your Elise on sport softs to Nürburgring GP/F. With 46/60/46 there is a lot of understeer (and this track tends to mask understeer) while with 8/30/15 (my "default" for MR, all else like you specified) there is no understeer. Imho higher values always give more understeer.

The LSD should BARELY affect understeer while accelerating for RWD cars anyways as you are never going to be able to get more then 75% lock. It only really affects it while braking. 4WD and FF are a different story.

Fair enough, I was only testing at Deep Forest, the allowed turn radius fit my corner entry patten and driving line. It works for me, there is a difference with small increments away in either initial or braking. I'm used to the handling on the car, however, one thing that should be noticeable at any rate of speed is the fact the LSD works. You can just stop anywhere you want, hold the e-brake, rev it up, dump the clutch and burn out and go through a corner. You'll find slippage is at an absolute minimum.

yes it does work. makes me happy

unless you set it at 5/5/5 then you are barely going to get lock unless you have massive power

 

[Poppins]

just updated my thoughts a lot.

 

[SS_1182]

just updated my thoughts a lot.

My default is 10/(45-55)/35, and for oversteering cars I go with 7/55/35, so it sounds like we prefer the same type of setup. But the "oversteering" cars are just ones with a lot of power. I never use the LSD to "tune" out oversteer. Oversteer is always taken care of with ride height and suspension.

Sry, but I cannot agree to this. I just took your Elise on sport softs to Nürburgring GP/F. With 46/60/46 there is a lot of understeer (and this track tends to mask understeer) while with 8/30/15 (my "default" for MR, all else like you specified) there is no understeer. Imho higher values always give more understeer.

Try your default 8/30/15 and then try 60/30/15 and see what happens.

Then try 5/30/15 and see what happens.

 

[Z1-AV69]

Try your default 8/30/15 and then try 60/30/15 and see what happens.
Then try 5/30/15 and see what happens.

60/30/15 understeers the most. Overall it feels kind of tranquilized. Stable, but a little harsh when you floor it over the limit. Braking is surprisingly unstable though.
5/30/15 is very agile, too much for my taste. Understeer is not a problem, nor is braking. Needs a good throttle control though.
8/30/15 is for me the best compromise between stability and agility. No problem controlling the power oversteer, no unexpected issues.

What do you want to tell me?

 

[Poppins]

my calculations just dont work with = #'s though and thats why i think they come out of play once they get equal.

if its set at 40/60/xx it wants 60% of torque but is only being allowed 40% wheel spin so it technically wants only 36% of torque to lock up but the minimum is 40% in the game so technically having it set at 40/60/xx and 60/60/xx are going to cause the exact same effects under acceleration the only difference is lock up while coasting.

hell like i said 5/60/xx is going to cause the same lock up under acceleration as 43/60/xx without all the understeer and such coasting.

which is why i think that technically it is the best possible now, the highest lock up possible under acceleration without FULL lock, as well as being almost an open diff while coasting and braking

i definately have it figured all out now.

UPDATED MY BIG POST AGAIN!

the IT can OVERRIDE, but not effectively "change" AS. this is shown in the fact that it will lock around a corner set at 60/5/x (due to sideways momentum) and wont at 5/5/x, but at the same time when clutch dumped with one tire on grass one on cement, only the one on grass spins because it has the least traction (when dropped with both on cement in a straight line they will both light up at 60/5/x due to both having the same traction)

BUT

the AS can OVERRIDE AS WELL as effectively "change" the IT. this is shown in the fact that when set to 5/5/x going around a corner it will not lock up, inside tire spin, and it will when set at 5/60/x, and at the same time when dumped with one tire on cement one on grass 5/60/x will light the one on the cement up as well as the one on the grass, this is because it changes the IT to act like a 43 instead of a 5 under acceleration while not affecting it when coasting or decelerating.

you can burn the tire on cement all the way down to 5/10/x for AS but once you get to about 5/7/x the override of wheel spin (AS) amount doesnt affect the torque needed (IT) enough to spin the second tire with enough force to burn out.

having it set to 5/10/x makes one tire spin faster then the other by a nice amount where as 5/60/x both tires will lock up alot more

 

[Slurm]

^ hahaha! Wahoo!

So listen, if accel controls the speed difference and initial controls the torque difference allowed....

Imagine you allow a 95% wheel speed difference, but you restrict the torque difference allowed (with i50, a5??) then in theory you could put a wheel on the grass and get it spinning very fast compared to the other wheel, because it doesn't take much torque for that wheel to spin. In fact, even if the torque was split equally, the low a5 value would allow a great speed difference and let the grass wheel spin freely, even though the diff was restricting the energy transfer.

Set off-track grip to real, for very slippery test surface and run this test! Try it and see what happens!

Also, by the way, ALL differentials are locked at rest. The values represent the torque it requires to slip. If you've ever tried to turn a kart wheel with your hand while it's on a trolley, you can see it try to turn the other wheel (the opposite direction, because of the diff type) very slightly, and it will easily lock and resist the torque of your hand.

 

[Z1-AV69]

hell like i said 5/60/xx is going to cause the same lock up under acceleration as 43/60/xx without all the understeer and such coasting.

which is why i think that technically it is the best possible now, the highest lock up possible under acceleration without FULL lock, as well as being almost an open diff while coasting and braking

i definately have it figured all out now.

Your ideas about what happens at those extreme levels are quite interesting, you may be right there. But I still don't understand why you would want the LSD to lock basically always. Imho it's best if the differential acts open as long as possible to allow for the smoothest cornering. It should only lock when its really necessary.

 

[Poppins]

Your ideas about what happens at those extreme levels are quite interesting, you may be right there. But I still don't understand why you would want the LSD to lock basically always. Imho it's best if the differential acts open as long as possible to allow for the smoothest cornering. It should only lock when its really necessary.

well I like it to lock under acceleration and all that having it set at 5/60/20 does is lock it 60%, so no matter what whether im flooring it or not one tire can still spin 40% slower then the other around a corner if it has to, and having 5 for initial torque causes it to be very open when coasting and fairly open when braking (can be more with 5 for decel) while still locking up technically with my math once 57% torque goes to one wheel by itself which means it acts like 43/60/XX under acceleration, 5/60/20 when coasting (which isnt very possible, always some sort of engine braking) and something around 5/60/12 under braking.

i updated my last two or three posts or w.e so check em out

im getting extremely consistent results.

 

[Z1-AV69]

I understand that. But it really limits how tight you can turn.

 

[Poppins]

^ hahaha! Wahoo!

So listen, if accel controls the speed difference and initial controls the torque difference allowed....

Imagine you allow a 95% wheel speed difference, but you restrict the torque difference allowed (with i50, a5??) then in theory you could put a wheel on the grass and get it spinning very fast compared to the other wheel, because it doesn't take much torque for that wheel to spin. In fact, even if the torque was split equally, the low a5 value would allow a great speed difference and let the grass wheel spin freely, even though the diff was restricting the energy transfer.

Set off-track grip to real, for very slippery test surface and run this test! Try it and see what happens!

Also, by the way, the diff is locked at rest. The values represent the torque it requires to slip.

yes what you say is true, if you set it to i50 a5 it is like allowing it to have 95% more wheel spin on one wheel but only allowing it to get 50% of the torque going into the diff.

so yes if you put one tire onto grass it will spin very fast and you can shift up to 6th gear high rpm while barely moving that much, that is because it only takes probably 20% of the torque to get that tire spinning that fast and setting it that high is impossible anyways (i80)

but if you drop the clutch with both tires on cement it will lock up while one is allowed to spin faster then the other around a corner, so you can drift with it at 50/5/x fairly good while one will spin faster then the other. while both being locked the same in a straight line due to the torque being set at 50%

now if you set it at 5/5/x you will see that it doesnt lock up on the grass, doesnt lock up while trying to drift (unless you have a very high hp car like my speed 12 i was testing with, still noticable that it doesnt lock up unless really tried to make it though) and doesnt lock up on straight cement either unless again you have massive power (i used a lotus to test this)

now if its at either i5 or i50, and a60, its going to lock up on the grass either way, lock up on cement while on straight, and around corners.

 

[Poppins]

I understand that. But it really limits how tight you can turn.

yeah but most cars can soak it up on almost every track except ones like eiger short track, cote d azur, monza's stupid chicane and so on. and it only really limits how tight i can go if im giving it throttle around the corners so i do pretty good most of the time, can get a <55 at tsukuba and <59 at high speed ring and <1:25 at trial mountain in my speed 12.

and BTW Slurm Ive never had any kart wheel turning experience haha but i suspect that maybe it was like that because the transmission was engaged? because ive span the diff on an axle from a truck before that had lsd and when i span the input of it, it spins both axles until you grab one, then it will not spin that one until the lsd locks after a certain amount of spin or instant force put on it (which i had to crank on it hard to get it to lock, if i didnt it would keep turning 1 axle) and when you spin either axle input it barely spins the opposite one until you crank on it, at which point it locks but doesnt resist with much force :S it just spins the other axle.

 

[Z1-AV69]

speed 12.

Ok, now it all makes sense, I forgot.

 

[Poppins]

hahaha yeah rediculous understeer anyways so whats the point!

but ideally you want to have a high initial torque on accelation and barely any when braking or turning

so 5/60/20 is ideal because it locks up hard under acceleration acting like (43/60/20) while acting fully open while coasting or braking due to the 5 for initial torque and 20 for braking (i keep it a bit higher for a bit more stability instead of having it 5/60/5 and being able to turn a bit better under braking)

 

[SS_1182]

60/30/15 understeers the most. Overall it feels kind of tranquilized. Stable, but a little harsh when you floor it over the limit. Braking is surprisingly unstable though.
5/30/15 is very agile, too much for my taste. Understeer is not a problem, nor is braking. Needs a good throttle control though.
8/30/15 is for me the best compromise between stability and agility. No problem controlling the power oversteer, no unexpected issues.

What do you want to tell me?

Nothing in particular, it's just that you didn't test everything equally in your original reply. I also wanted to see what you thought about the initial torque settings in those examples. I find it to be the opposite. A car like the McLaren F1 (in online lobbies) will have more oversteer out of corners with something like 60/30/15 compared to 5/30/15 in my experiences. But then again, I usually never lower my accel. settings, so that could be causing differences. I've tested it at more of 5/50/35 compared to 60/50/35, etc. The accel. could be overriding the initial in those cases. It doesn't matter really, my cars handle great. I'm always competitive online so I don't have a problem with all of the different theories around here because I've found a formula that works for me, it's just discussion.

 

[Slurm]

^ Basic diagram, minus the gears.

I really don't think speed differences have anything to do with it. LSD's are torque sensitive, not speed sensitive. They don't lock, they slip. And lastly, although they are definitely functional in GT they have weird effects on the handling of different cars in the game that often contradicts real-world advice.

 

[Z1-AV69]

Nothing in particular, it's just that you didn't test everything equally in your original reply. I also wanted to see what you thought about the initial torque settings in those examples. I find it to be the opposite. A car like the McLaren F1 (in online lobbies) will have more oversteer out of corners with something like 60/30/15 compared to 5/30/15 in my experiences.

A high initial will create some kind of oversteer on throttle out of corners, yes. But imho that is a different kind of oversteer. It comes from the inner wheel pushing the car straight. At low initial levels (and low accel) it's really the outer wheel losing grip which makes the rear go out. Imho LSD tuning is about getting both right. I came to the 8/30/15 on a McLaren F1. Man I love it on that car. It's quite aggressive, but allows for great throttle-steering.

 

[Scottster]

 

[C.D]

This stuff is pointless, given GT5 physics routines embarassing inaccuracy and lack of consistency you're prolly better off just going on track with random values and then fine tuning em through a trial and error process til the car handling allows you to score the lap times you were looking for.

 

[Adrenaline]

This stuff is pointless, given GT5 physics routines embarassing inaccuracy and lack of consistency you're prolly better off just going on track with random values and then fine tuning em through a trial and error process til the car handling allows you to score the lap times you were looking for.

This will always be the best option, but what I'm hoping to come away with from this thread, is knowing what adjustments will have what results, so that my trial and error stops being guess work and becomes a logical thought process.

 

[f_399]

wow reading this hurts my head lol

what would you guys recommend for "drag" a high hp rwd?

40/40? 50/50?

initial/accel

 

[Will27]

This will always be the best option, but what I'm hoping to come away with from this thread, is knowing what adjustments will have what results, so that my trial and error stops being guess work and becomes a logical thought process.

Well it hasnt failed me yet, so here's what I do if I need to tweak the diff:

-If the car behaves erraticly, snapping from understeer to oversteer and vice versa at the corner entry and when transitioning from braking to accelerating mid-corner, Increase initial torque.
-If the car is slow to respond to turning, understeers from there and is generally lazy, reduce initial torque(if suspension doesnt help with out resorting to extreme settings)

-If the RWD car understeers on power (not breaking traction), reduce accel. sensitivity, if inside wheel spins uncontrollably, increase till its in check
-If the car lacks drive traction, increase accel. sensitivity, but not to the point where the car will spin under power(RWD)
-If FWD car understeers on power, increase accel. sensitivity. (FWD car will understeer badly if inside tire is allowed to spin)

-If the car understeers under braking or coasting, decrease decel. sensitivity
-If the car oversteers under braking or coasting, increase decel. sensitivity

Also add this to the end of all of the above:
"If suspension tuning doesnt help with out resorting to extreme settings"

The harder part is determining if the diff needs tweaks or if its another part of the car
/prepares for flaming because: "Someone on the internet is WRONG"

 

[budious]

The tuning process is fairly simply but since people want to vigorously imply it doesn't work under any circumstance, maybe I should just keep it a proprietary secret for my tunes from now on... seriously, if you reverse engineer the test car settings I provided then you'll understand the whole system.

 

[Adrenaline]

Yeah, what I've been using as a simple, basic guideline is below, but I'm eager to find a more scientific method, and also a relation between the 3, to work in unison.

Initial. I treat this as if it controls how much engine power(torque) is applied to the rear wheels. The lowest setting of 5, transfers the least amount of power, therefor the least likely to break traction, but also the least likely to accelerate very fast. The highest setting of 60, results in a lot of engine power being transfered, which can cause a loss of traction. The 'sweet spot' is somewhere in the middle, where you find just enough power to accelerate out of the corner, but without breaking traction.

Acceleration. It's easiest to think of this as 'which tire gets the power, applied by the setting you chose from initial'. The lowest setting of 5, results in the inside tire receiving the most power, causing inside tire spin, but more control. The highest setting of 60 results in the outside tire receiving the most power, which will create outside tire spin, giving you a lot of 'on-throttle-rotation' but is definately harder to control. Again, the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle, where both tires get nearly the same amount of torque applied. If you like the car to 'turn' on throttle, add some power to the outside tire (higher accel), if you think the car is too loose on throttle, send more power to the inside tire (lower accel).

DeAccel. Controls the amount of difference between rear tire rotational rates. The lowest setting of 5 allows the car to freely rotate into the corner, but can makes the car unstable, if it 'rotation' becomes 'spinning out'. The highest setting of 60 results in the least amount of difference between the rear tires, which creates the most stability, but allows the least amount of rotation into the corner. As the above 2, the 'sweet spot' appears to be in the center, where you can safely drive into the corner as hard as you want, without experiencing understeer. If the car understeers, lower De-Accel. If it feels like it wants to spin out when you drive in, raise De-Accel.

*Disclaimer* The terms I use are incorrect. I used them to try to help people visualize and understand what each option does, in a measurable and noticeable manner through their own testing. Initial probably works an entirely different way, but how I've explained it, can help anyone understand the cause and effect, which is the main purpose.

Cheat Sheet:
Inital
Lower number = less torque transfered from engine to rear wheels (slow acceleration)
High number = more torque transfered from engine to rear wheels (no traction)
Find the happy medium, it's different for every person, car and set up.

Accel
Lower number = more torque transfered to the inside wheel (control)
Higher number = more torque transfered to the outside wheel (on throttle rotation)
Find the happy medium, where the rear tires have close the the same torque, fine tune high or low based on how the car feels on center through exit, under acceleration.

DeAccel
Lower number = easier to turn into corners, but can cause spinning out
Higher number = more resistance to turn into corners, but more stable.
Find the happy medium, where you can safely drive in as hard as you like, without losing control, or experiecing understeer.

Keep in mind, that since initial will increase or reduce the amount of torque transfered to the rear wheels, that adjusting the initial, will also effect the accel. If you increase the overall torque to the car, it might cause an imbalance in where the torque is being applied by the accel setting. As I increase initial, it usually forces me to lower accel, or I run into outside wheel spin again.

 

[Poppins]

^ Basic diagram, minus the gears.

I really don't think speed differences have anything to do with it. LSD's are torque sensitive, not speed sensitive. They don't lock, they slip. And lastly, although they are definitely functional in GT they have weird effects on the handling of different cars in the game that often contradicts real-world advice.

speed sensitivity is the same thing as how much lock their is. if you knew how an lsd worked you would know this.

your diagram is opposite though, the initial torque is applied to the driveshaft and the accel and decel sens to the axles

 

[Poppins]

Yeah, what I've been using as a simple, basic guideline is below, but I'm eager to find a more scientific method, and also a relation between the 3, to work in unison.

Initial. I treat this as if it controls how much engine power(torque) is applied to the rear wheels. The lowest setting of 5, transfers the least amount of power, therefor the least likely to break traction, but also the least likely to accelerate very fast. The highest setting of 60, results in a lot of engine power being transfered, which can cause a loss of traction. The 'sweet spot' is somewhere in the middle, where you find just enough power to accelerate out of the corner, but without breaking traction.

Acceleration. It's easiest to think of this as 'which tire gets the power, applied by the setting you chose from initial'. The lowest setting of 5, results in the inside tire receiving the most power, causing inside tire spin, but more control. The highest setting of 60 results in the outside tire receiving the most power, which will create outside tire spin, giving you a lot of 'on-throttle-rotation' but is definately harder to control. Again, the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle, where both tires get nearly the same amount of torque applied. If you like the car to 'turn' on throttle, add some power to the outside tire (higher accel), if you think the car is too loose on throttle, send more power to the inside tire (lower accel).

DeAccel. Controls the amount of difference between rear tire rotational rates. The lowest setting of 5 allows the car to freely rotate into the corner, but can makes the car unstable, if it 'rotation' becomes 'spinning out'. The highest setting of 60 results in the least amount of difference between the rear tires, which creates the most stability, but allows the least amount of rotation into the corner. As the above 2, the 'sweet spot' appears to be in the center, where you can safely drive into the corner as hard as you want, without experiencing understeer. If the car understeers, lower De-Accel. If it feels like it wants to spin out when you drive in, raise De-Accel.

*Disclaimer* The terms I use are incorrect. I used them to try to help people visualize and understand what each option does, in a measurable and noticeable manner through their own testing. Initial probably works an entirely different way, but how I've explained it, can help anyone understand the cause and effect, which is the main purpose.

Cheat Sheet:
Inital
Lower number = less torque transfered from engine to rear wheels (slow acceleration)
High number = more torque transfered from engine to rear wheels (no traction)
Find the happy medium, it's different for every person, car and set up.

Accel
Lower number = more torque transfered to the inside wheel (control)
Higher number = more torque transfered to the outside wheel (on throttle rotation)
Find the happy medium, where the rear tires have close the the same torque, fine tune high or low based on how the car feels on center through exit, under acceleration.

DeAccel
Lower number = easier to turn into corners, but can cause spinning out
Higher number = more resistance to turn into corners, but more stable.
Find the happy medium, where you can safely drive in as hard as you like, without losing control, or experiecing understeer.

Keep in mind, that since initial will increase or reduce the amount of torque transfered to the rear wheels, that adjusting the initial, will also effect the accel. If you increase the overall torque to the car, it might cause an imbalance in where the torque is being applied by the accel setting. As I increase initial, it usually forces me to lower accel, or I run into outside wheel spin again.

initial torque is not the amount of TOTAL engine power applied to BOTH wheels it is how much CAN be applied to one wheel before it locks, so yes like you said lower results in it feeling like it doesnt have as much "go" because only one wheel is getting most of the power, where as when its set high it will give more power to both wheels.

like i said 5/60/5 will act like initial torque is set to 43 UNDER ACCEL ONLY due to the accel sens being so high and overriding the torque amount allowance with wheel slip allowance



THIS is EXACTLY how I see it to work. I sent this as a message to someone asking a question.


well if you have it set to 5/60 its going to lock up right away under acceleration and act like the initial is at 43 which means 57% of total torque in the diff to one wheel before it locks by my logic.

because you can look at them seperately, and then together as a whole.

5 for initial torque means very hard to lock the diff, as in it needs 95% of all the torque in the diff to go to one wheel before it locks the other one in

60 is the opposite and means very easy to lock, as in it needs only 40% of total torque in the diff to go to one wheel before locking.

now accel sens acts differently and affects how much "lock" there is, in other words, "slip" or how i like to say "spin difference" as in if you have it set at 5, even if your initial torque is set to 60, on a straight stretch it will allow one wheel to spin 95% of the total speed in the diff and the other only 5%, which is why it is called how much "slip" there is sometimes. this can be shown by one wheel on the grass one on cement, set at 60/5/x, only the wheel on the grass will spin, and you will barely accelerate even shifting up to maximum gear at maximum rpm because it doesnt take more then 40% of the torque to spin the tire on slippery grass, so the initial torque doesnt even affect it, and the wheen on the grass is getting to spin 19x as fast as the other wheel before it starts to lock (95% from 5 accel sens / 5% from the other tire)

now if you try to lock up on cement in a straight line with it set at 60/5/x it will do just that, let one tire spin up to 19x as fast as the other, but since they both have the same amount of grip the initial torque kicks in (40% of torque max to one wheel before lock) and lets the other tire spin to 95% and then locks again switching it to the other tire. this all happens very quickly and isnt really noticable, and you pretty much get lock anyways, although might have some one tire fire due to accel sens so low depending on the car you test it with, but it is very snappy and goes back and forth tire to tire, causing a lot of trouble around corners and s turns. you will also be able to drift like this and lock both tires up because when you are sliding sideways the tires spin much easier, and it lets one tire spin faster then the other but since the initial torque is at 40% of total torque it locks up anyways with some single tire spin out of drifts, which by the way are also very sketchy and snappy

this is where the override thing i calculated comes into play as shown that initial torque CAN override the accel sens in the fact that setting it high with the accel low will cause lock, but you still do get one tire fire which shows that it doesnt change the accel sens

on the other hand like i said, if you have it set to 60 for accel sens, its letting the tires speed differ by a MAXIMUM of 40% while accelerating, which means if one tire spins 100km/hr, the other spins no matter what at 60 mph. this is shown by the same grass test where it doesnt lock at 5/5/x and does at 5/60/x, but youd think that because the initial torque is set to so low that it wouldnt lock with one tire on grass, because it should take 95% of torque to one tire to lock it no? and you cant even get that result with it set at 40% of torque to lock it! this is why accel sens overrides and changes that, because NO MATTER WHAT, under acceleration ONLY, the tires cant differ speed by more then 40%. effectively giving you this formula (95% initial torque, 40% speed differ (60% lock up) ---> 1.00 / 0.60 = 1.6667 [ratio for lock *how many times faster one wheel can spin compared to the other*] ---> [95% of torque wants to go to one wheel but since that wheel can only spin 1.6667 times faster then the other wheel, it effectively changes the initial torque under accleration] ---> 95% / 1.6667 = 56.99886%) this is the amount of torque under acceleration it takes to lock, which effectively changes that Initial Torque (UNDER ACCEL ONLY) to a setting of 43 while still only allowing 40% wheel speed difference.

this is why 5/60/5 is IMO my favourite because it allows it to be very open while braking and helps a lot with turning, but when I get on the throttle it locks up fairly easy, and very nicely.

 

[Adrenaline]

Disclaimers exist for a reason.
Your calculations mean nothing to half of the readers.

 

[BlueShift]

speed sensitivity is the same thing as how much lock their is. if you knew how an lsd worked you would know this.

Speed is not a result of torque, it's a result of HP...

Generally low and max rpm provide low torque in your power band, the initial "response" to your LSD depend of the powerband (so rpm) more than speed.

Upshift to stop slipping.

like the initial is at 43 which means 57% of total torque in the diff to one wheel before it locks by my logic.

bullcrap, I think you might be deaf.
43 is 71.5% to one wheel (43 + (100-43)/2) and 28.5% to the other wheel (100-43)/2.
Or, if you prefer,
50+(43/2) to one wheel and 50-(43/2) to the other wheel.

 

[Poppins]

Speed is not a result of torque, it's a result of HP...

Generally low and max rpm provide low torque in your power band, the initial "response" to your LSD depend of the powerband (so rpm) more than speed.

Upshift to stop slipping.


bullcrap, I think you might be deaf.
43 is 71.5% to one wheel (43 + (100-43)/2) and 28.5% to the other wheel (100-43)/2.
Or, if you prefer,
50+(43/2) to one wheel and 50-(43/2) to the other wheel.

you saying speed is a result of HP and not torque makes me think you have no clue what you're talking about. you can acheive the same speed out of an engine that has 100 hp that you can with one that has 1000hp, you just need to adjust gearing and because the low hp engine will most likely be running at very low rpms to generate enough energy to spin the tires the same speed as the 1000hp engine and have a lot more torque to make up for not having as much horsepower

which makes me think you really dont have any clue about cars and are just using your own random calculations to try figure out whats up.

where are you getting all your #'s in your math from. because (43 + (100-43)/2) is a formula that you pulled out of your ass and it makes no proper sense.

by your #'s having initial torque set at 60 would cause (60 + (100-60)/2) torque which equates to 80% torque to one wheel needed to lock it up which is the TOTAL opposite of how it responds through testing (needs barely any torque to lock at high setting) which shows that your math says that an initial torque at 60 is HARDER to lock then an initial torque at 5 which as we both know is completely wrong.

by your logic having it set at 5 causes (5 + (100-5)/2) which equates to 52~ % torque to lock which we also know is false, as having it set to 5 makes it take massive torque to lock (more along the lines of 95% like i said)

explain that to me because that makes no sense. initial torque has nothing to do with how much torque is already in the diff it purely has to do with how much can be transferred before lock.

and you are saying that

5/x/x causes it to need only 52% torque to one wheel to lock up, which from my testing is more like 95%
43/x/x causes 71.5% torque to one wheel before it locks, which would be even LOOSER then 5/x/x
60/x/x causes 80%!!!!! torque to one wheel before it locks, which would make it very hard to lock compared to a 5, and we both know that is the complete opposite of what actually happens

so from my figuring im still correct and that is the only way it can work

therefore with it set at 5/5/5 it will transmit 95% before it locks and with 60/5/5 it will transmit 40% before it locks.

 

[Poppins]

wow reading this hurts my head lol

what would you guys recommend for "drag" a high hp rwd?

40/40? 50/50?

initial/accel

5/60/5

takes 95% torque to lock under normal conditions so helps immensely with cornering and braking into corners

yet under acceleration only lets 40% wheel speed difference which effectively makes the amount of maximum energy (torque) able to go to one tire 57% instead of the 95% that it has while not accelerating.

 

[budious]

The unifying error in all the theories being tossed around here is that LSD tuning begins at 5/5/5... this is completely wrong!

The maximum capability of the LSD is 60/60/60, if the wheels still spin on this setting then you need to adjust your spring rates, dampers, and anti-roll bars or switch up to a grippier tire until you have eliminated or minimized spin with 60/60/60. When this achieved, begin tuning it backwards until you break it, then go back up one setting. Typically moving initial and deceleration in equal increments while leaving acceleration at 60 has worked best for me so far.

Right now I'm running 60/60/60 on a work in progress car setting consecutive new lap records for it at Grand Valley Speedway.