Input lag

[arora]

I know if i was on a PC forum, i would get a much better level of respect.

Why not go to one with this stuff then? 💡

PC gamers view things logically from an unbiassed/ Non fanboy perspective and generally from what it seems have a much higher IQ from what i have experienced.

That is just lame, I'm no fanboy of anything and I'm sure most others responding to this thread take equal offence. Oh, so you just resort to calling people stupid now? yeeesh, go back to your mensa meeting already 👍

 

[dancardesigner]

I visualized it so I can explain what I'm thinking. Lets say the track has a bump. The bump may exists on the track at point 1, but we feel it at point 2. Therefor we perceive that the bump actually exists at point 2.

Yes, that would be lag. But it doesn't only apply to bumps, it applies to the handling of teh cars also from what i have experienced, though people keep persisting the only perceivable lag is the animation of te steering wheel.
I however notice the cars react after you have made the input, but others here do not see this.
I guess as a PC sim racer i am just used to a different quality of experience.

 

[FoolKiller]

I can't believe I just read through this entire thread.

Dan, you may be seeing a lag on your setup. Sorry to hear that.

However, I have been playing Prologue since it came out and while I am sure there is some lag it has not been enough to affect my ability to control my car, nor has it pulled me out of the experience.

Each individual setup will be different, it is why music games like Rock Band and SingStar have calibration settings. Rock Band 2's guitar even comes with a sensor for automatic calibration. Game designers do what they can to correct for this as much as possible, but everyone's setup will differ and some people will just notice it more. Short of some form of calibration sensor peripheral that every developer uses it cannot be made perfect for everyone.

The fact that until now no one else has brought this up at GTP tells me that it is not severe enough to affect most of us here at GTP.




And right now I wish Digital-Nitrate would return from his vacation (I know for fact he is home now) because he could add a lot to this, as he does HD shootouts at home for fun and a lot of this is related to his career.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

I can see a very small input lag,maybe 1 ms, probably less, but it's only when the guy starts moving the wheel, it perfectly syncs everytime after that 1ms or less tho.
I'll never get you wheel users.

 

[Dokushin]

I've watched the video. I really don't think there's any lag between the hardware wheel and the car's steering. There might be a tiny bit of lag between the hardware wheel and the simulated wheel, but who cares? That'd be impossible to eliminate anyway. It's trying to animate a realistic simulation of hands turning a wheel, it can't just jump them around based on wherever your wheel happens to be.

I'm 100% sure there's no lag in the actual steering. The animation lag doesn't matter, and in spite of that is truly impressively small, even in very difficult cases (repeated changes of motion).

Oh, and, uh, hi, long time lurker here.

 

[dancardesigner]

I can't believe I just read through this entire thread.

Dan, you may be seeing a lag on your setup. Sorry to hear that.

However, I have been playing Prologue since it came out and while I am sure there is some lag it has not been enough to affect my ability to control my car, nor has it pulled me out of the experience.

Each individual setup will be different, it is why music games like Rock Band and SingStar have calibration settings. Rock Band 2's guitar even comes with a sensor for automatic calibration. Game designers do what they can to correct for this as much as possible, but everyone's setup will differ and some people will just notice it more. Short of some form of calibration sensor peripheral that every developer uses it cannot be made perfect for everyone.

The fact that until now no one else has brought this up at GTP tells me that it is not severe enough to affect most of us here at GTP.




And right now I wish Digital-Nitrate would return from his vacation (I know for fact he is home now) because he could add a lot to this, as he does HD shootouts at home for fun and a lot of this is related to his career.

You are right in that it isn't the most major of issues and most people don't care, but in regards to set up, i play PS3 on the same monitor i test my PC sims on, and the two don't compare, PC is fair quicker to respond on screen.

 

[cicohipe]

LOL as a PC gamer primarily (I only really play consoles for GT, FF, and a couple other games) I can completely sympathize with you dancard about the higher lvl IQ thing.

I dont really know if thats true, and it does come across as offensive but you definetly do get much more civilized conversations on PC forums, where arguments are more based on fact instead of belief and fanboys are far less of an issue.

I think the difference is age group primarily. PC is for older people who arnt necessarily more intelligent but are more mature. While consoles are for all ages, but also attract alot of kids.

 

[dancardesigner]

LOL as a PC gamer primarily (I only really play consoles for GT, FF, and a couple other games) I can completely sympathize with you dancard about the higher lvl IQ thing.

I dont really know if thats true, and it does come across as offensive but you definetly do get much more civilized conversations on PC forums, where arguments are more based on fact instead of belief and fanboys are far less of an issue.

I think the difference is age group primarily. PC is for older people who arnt necessarily more intelligent but are more mature. While consoles are for all ages, but also attract alot of kids.

I perhaps didn't mean it literally, but you go on any PC forum and there arn't Fanboy based disagreements like there are on here, you can have a civilised conversation. Damn i'm not exactly mature myself, i'm only 20 and about to start my second year at uni.

 

[Greycap]

I noticed it, and my Dad noticed it instantly the first time i told him to have a go. I guess some people are just more perceptive than others.

'
Or you just have a laggy screen as shown earlier? No wonder you would both notice it as you're looking at the same screen.

I know if i was on a PC forum, i would get a much better level of respect.
PC gamers view things logically from an unbiassed/ Non fanboy perspective and generally from what it seems have a much higher IQ from what i have experienced.

Go on a PC sim forum, tell them that their sim sucks in comparison to a console game and don't forget to keep beating your own drum after being proven wrong at several points. I heavily doubt they'd be "oh OK, we'll just have to bite the bullet then" instead of trying to show you that you are actually wrong. As these people here have done.

 

[Timppaq]

LOL as a PC gamer primarily (I only really play consoles for GT, FF, and a couple other games) I can completely sympathize with you dancard about the higher lvl IQ thing.

Try this;
http://www.sigmasociety.com/sigma_teste/sigma_teste_vi_eng.asp

tell afterwards

 

[dancardesigner]

'
or you just have a laggy screen as shown earlier? No wonder you would both notice it as you're looking at the same screen.

go on a pc sim forum, tell them that their sim sucks in comparison to a console game and don't forget to keep beating your own drum after being proven wrong at several points. I heavily doubt they'd be "oh ok, we'll just have to bite the bullet then" instead of trying to show you that you are actually wrong. As these people here have done.

omg - people forget the screen itself

i can compare ps3 to pc on same screen

pc is far faster input

period

 

[FoolKiller]

You are right in that it isn't the most major of issues and most people don't care, but in regards to set up, i play PS3 on the same monitor i test my PC sims on, and the two don't compare, PC is fair quicker to respond on screen.

Again, sorry to hear it is affecting you. My PS3 via HDMI on my 42" 1080p Vizio and RCA 5.1 Dolby Digital setup does not affect me.

 

[MatskiMonk]

LOL as a PC gamer primarily (I only really play consoles for GT, FF, and a couple other games) I can completely sympathize with you dancard about the higher lvl IQ thing.

I dont really know if thats true, and it does come across as offensive but you definetly do get much more civilized conversations on PC forums, where arguments are more based on fact instead of belief and fanboys are far less of an issue.

I think the difference is age group primarily. PC is for older people who arnt necessarily more intelligent but are more mature. While consoles are for all ages, but also attract alot of kids.

Aaaahh, PC vs. Console... a.k.a. Nerd's vs Passionate racers... LOL -- joke --

Seriously though, I class myself as being fairly intelligent, and I have nothing against PC's, I use them all the time for work, and PHP/SQL web stuff in my spare time. My setup is okay.. but still, gaming on a PC sucks, I like to totally immerse myself in a game, I find that difficult to do on a PC (granted my PC runs through a dual 19" monitor / stereo sound set-up, and my Playstation runs through a 50" TV with seperate 5.1), but PC's are for work, consoles are for pleasure!

On topic... are you sure that your PC racer just doesn't offer over assisted steering? Don't forget, in a car there is a mechanical linkage and a load of rubber to turn before the car will actually start to over come the compressable bits in the suspenesion, it's forward momentum and then change direction?

 

[dancardesigner]

Aaaahh, PC vs. Console... a.k.a. Nerd's vs Passionate racers... LOL -- joke --

Seriously though, I class myself as being fairly intelligent, and I have nothing against PC's, I use them all the time for work, and PHP/SQL web stuff in my spare time. My setup is okay.. but still, gaming on a PC sucks, I like to totally immerse myself in a game, I find that difficult to do on a PC (granted my PC runs through a dual 19" monitor / stereo sound set-up, and my Playstation runs through a 50" TV with seperate 5.1), but PC's are for work, consoles are for pleasure!

On topic... are you sure that your PC racer just doesn't offer over assisted steering? Don't forget, in a car there is a mechanical linkage and a load of rubber to turn before the car will actually start to over come the compressable bits in the suspenesion, it's forward momentum and then change direction?

It is deffo a lag issue look

[/IMG]


You don't get that on PC

 

[arora]

Wow, still at it? I think we've all seen that pic more then once. I think I understand, lets see.......... GT is inferior to pc sims, pc sim boards have members with a similiar i.q. to yours right?

So why are you playing gt and why are you hear ranting on and on with this dribble?

 

[the Interceptor]

Yes but i wasn't

You go and enter conversations to be proved wrong all you want

I enter conversations to enliten people and also to ask any questions i may not have the answer to

Also, on a personal note, I might add that I feel a lot of the "head wind" you are facing in this thread is generated by your attitude - just a friendly hint...

*cough*

 

[Raitziger]

I try to change my attitude a little as someone commented on it

Modern HDTVs can have very diffferent input lags:

two modern 240Hz lcds, very different gaming performance:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-le46b750-le40b750-20090526151.htm

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl40z4500-20081124136.htm

 

[dancardesigner]

*cough*

That is incorrect. People provoke me to say things because they say something first. I never instigate the criticism, others do, and when i dish it back they don't like it.

All youv'e done is pick instances of where i have defended myself, proves nothing

And when i shove proof/evidence in there face they don't like it because they are Fanboys, and say stuff like the guy above you. They take the topic at hand off couse and get all defensive about there precious GT. Pathetic
Like i have said many times i'm not a fanboy, just a guy that likes car games

 

[arora]

And when i shove proof/evidence in there face they don't like it because they are Fanboys, and say stuff like the guy above you. They take the topic at hand off couse and get all defensive about there precious GT. Pathetic
Like i have said many times i'm not a fanboy, just a guy that likes car games

Do you think I don't like you 'shoving proof in my face'? You have offered no significant proof other then you own a poor monitor.

Once again, I am not a Fanboy of anything.

Take the topic off course? I'm pretty sure it was you who brought up fanboy and low i.q. etc.

 

[the Interceptor]

That is incorrect. People provoke me to say things because they say something first. I never instigate the criticism, others do, and when i dish it back they don't like it.

All youv'e done is pick instances of where i have defended myself, proves nothing

And when i shove proof/evidence in there face they don't like it because they are Fanboys, and say stuff like the guy above you. They take the topic at hand off couse and get all defensive about there precious GT. Pathetic
Like i have said many times i'm not a fanboy, just a guy that likes car games

I'm actually fine with this topic, and I actually do agree with you that there is a bit of lag in the video you referred to in the opening post.

However, what you should embrace is that different people have different opinions, and since this is a discussion forum, they will post them. The actual problem starts when you do not accept that those people think differently and try to convince them that they are "wrong wrong WRONG WRONG!!!!1!1!!"

In a lot of your posts, there's this subliminal "Dude, are you like ... stupid or something? Duh!" vibe which people very much dislike. And I can understand them. This makes people take the "other side" deliberately, which only makes the initial problem worse.

Seriously. Losen up a little. Accept that you're not always right. Don't brag with it when you are. And understand that people neither are machines, nor that they always agree with you.

 

[Nomino]

However, what you should embrace is that different people have different opinions, and since this is a discussion forum, they will post them. The actual problem starts when you do not accept that those people think differently and try to convince them that they are "wrong wrong WRONG WRONG!!!!1!1!!"

In a lot of your posts, there's this subliminal "Dude, are you like ... stupid or something? Duh!" vibe which people very much dislike. And I can understand them. This makes people take the "other side" deliberately, which only makes the initial problem worse.

Sane post of the month for me 👍

It needed to be said too, because I got so sick of his "you're wrong and I'm right" attitude that I stayed out of this thread for the past 7 or 8 pages. I happen to disagree that there is lag between the physical movement of the wheel and the actual in-game car responding, but I do see the difference in the position of the animated wheel on fast movements.

Whether I'm wrong or right doesn't really matter, it's how people approach the subject that does.

 

[theewar]

After watching the following video i noticed that even the TV PD choose to showcase GT5 has noticeable input lag. Do you think this is something that can be overcome and what affect do you feel it has on the overall feedback through the wheel? Surely it will create a feeling of detachment from the vehicle and there will be delay in seeing weight transfer. It is like you have to predict from the FFB where the car will be a split second later. I'm astounded people don't notice this. Here is a test at home when you play prologue through the wheel, turn it as fast as you can,and watch how long it takes for the wheel in game to respond.

i just wonder if this is something that can be overcome and what affect it has on the overall feeling of being connected with the vehicle.

This surely must create a feeling of detachment from the vehicle and cause a delay when it comes to feeling weight transfer of the vehicle.

For me there is no feeling of datachment from the vehicle other than the one i get because i am sitting at home in a playseat,rather than sitting in the real thing.Sure, It would be great to feel connected with the vehicle the same way we do in real life,but this is not the case.Ive logged 1000's of hours over the past 10 or so years on Granturismo games and many other Console driving games.I also got GTR Evolution for the pc,which my pc just cant cope with (cheap and cheerfull ),but i digress

I hope that answers at least one of your questions.

As for this question:

i just wonder if this is something that can be overcome

That one i have no idea about,I shall leave that up to people that are a lot smarter than me.

 

[FLASH48]

I don't really notice it, if there is or not. I do know i have lots of input lag! Takes me about second, to decide its time to turm every once in awhile! Would really like to correct that!!

 

[regnar]

I don't know if this is lag or not, could be. I know in a real car there is a mechanical delay & dead zone (play in the wheel). Would like PD to add adjustment to the Dead
Zone into the Controller Menu.

 

[reece22345]

Isn't there always a bit of lag because the game can't turn the wheel until you do?

Oh and Im neither a fanboy nor an immature moron. I just think your attitude needs a make over.

 

[JamboGT]

I was round at a mates house today and was playing his GT5P with his TV and his G25 and there was lag in it, me and him argued over this for ages.

The thing is on my setup there is no lag. None, maybe a slight visual lag with turning of the wheel but nothing serious. On his it was mostly noticeable when braking and accelerating. Maybe you suffer from this problem?

 

[RAVELLRON]

the lag could also made by tv settings...
i have a philips 9604 and if i turn on the setting HD natural motion, gt5p do the same lag that e saw in the video at gamescom..
maybe are tv setting in cologne and not gt5....

 

[Tompie913]

I've never noticed any lag in steering for Prologue on my Driving Force GT. I have, though, definitely noticed that on the first race after starting the game up, the brake has a noticeable lag. I noticed this on Fuji and Suzuka most because of the immediate braking off the straight, and there's definitely a lag by about a second. I restart the race though and it's fine.

 

[turbomp301]

Rockband has calibration settings in the game that can delay the audio and video streams to basically match the timing of your controller inputs exactly.

Could a feature like this in GT help the lag?

 

[Raitziger]

For lowest lag on modern hdtv:
Turn off all extra processing (DNR, 100Hz interpolation modes)
Turn on game mode or pc mode(this usually disables everything that slows response)
Do not use av processor that might delay the picture.