Input lag

[yeti]

You are right in that it isn't the most major of issues and most people don't care, but in regards to set up, i play PS3 on the same monitor i test my PC sims on, and the two don't compare, PC is fair quicker to respond on screen.

You've also noted that you have 2 different methods of communicating with the monitor for your PC and PS3...

I don't know if HDMI has data transfer issues over DVI - but it wouldn't surprise me if DVI was quicker than HDMI...

If you had a HDMI Graphics card on your PC - then you could test this...

C.

 

[cschoei]

I'd like to add something to this thread, though I've only skimmed through it.

I have a DFP gt wheel and notice significant input lag in GT5P to the point that driving becomes difficult because of the slow response. This is a definitely a real problem, not just a minor visual issue.

And to note: my ps3 is connected through hdmi to a TN panel monitor with a 2ms response.

 

[RAVELLRON]

the ms response doesn't mean nothing with imput lag, its another thing...
the 2ms response mean that when you watch a movement image on tv, you will see it more fluid than a 4ms tv..
the imput lag is the gap of time from the moment that you push the button on pad and the response you feel/watch on screen, this is imput lag...
many new good model of lcd have an imput lag of 0,33 ms and it's good to begin with... plasma doesn't suffer of imput lag so yìou will have better response...
a tv like mine has 0,33ms with all the video filter off... with video filter on tha ms achieve more than 0,60 and you feel it very badly...
hope you understand...

 

[Raitziger]

Modern games have usually 67ms - 200ms of input lag.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-lag-factor-article?page=3

 

[d3br34k5]

I have a 'Games' setting on my Olevia 747i 47" HDTV. I make sure to use it when gaming because when I don't, there's big-time delay with things like RockBand and it's also noticeable when playing PC games like Oblivion (mouse press to actual sword swing). I've got a hefty PC: Q6600, 4GB DDR2-8500, HD4890, RAID 0 Raptors and I hang out at [H]ardforum.com for my book-learnin' about what I own. I can tell the difference between dropped frames and input lag, is the point. Both my PS3 and PC are connected via HDMI to my Onkyo TX-SR607 and video comes out from there via HDMI as well.

Once I change my TV's screen mode from 16:9 HD to 'Games' mode, the input lag disappears...Even though I sometimes forget to do this when playing Gran Turismo 5 Prologue and don't seem to notice because I'm not that great of a driver to begin with. Obviously, switching to 'Games' mode makes me better.

dancardesigner, I think your monitor is the issue. Look for a 'Games' setting. If it doesn't have one... well, sorry for your bad luck.


Edit: That's a great article, Raitziger. Came across it a couple days ago. Good read for anyone wanting to learn more about input lag.

 

[dancardesigner]

I liked this quote from that article, i think says it all really.

In-game latency, or the level of response in our controls, is one of the most crucial elements in game-making, not just in the here and now, but for the future too. It's fair to say that players today have become conditioned to what the truly hardcore PC gamers would consider to be almost unacceptably high levels of latency to the point where cloud gaming services such as OnLive and Gaikai rely heavily upon it.

Now, it seems people keep bringing up the issue of the monitor.

Now obviously, at least in my case it would not be appropriate for me to make this thread in the GT5 section if this was more a monitor issue than game issue.

The fact i use the ''same'' monitor to compare my pc games to GT5 i think means we can safely say, the monitor can be ruled out. I don't have the fastest monitor though i must say it produces superb image quality, but the fact is, it is more than fast enough to respond to my PC games like Rfactor, Fear yad yada yada.

The problem here is the latency of the game, some people think it is just steering wheel animation, but i beg to differ, when in bumper cam or external view, and i turn the wheel sharply there is definately a delay in the response. Maybe my senses have been sharpened from playing PC games IDK, but i very much doubt it. I like that quote posted because it goes against all the people in this thread that told me the problem is negligable or un-important, and that must be about 90% of members who posted. The way i see it is, if it's not a problem for you then great, but don't go bashing me in my own thread for making my experience apparent to other members who are interested.

 

[yeti]

I don't remember many people "bashing" you in this thread - I remember lots of people offering suggestions on how you might fix it - or saying that *they* don't either a) see it or b) get it...

As mentioned before your attitude to anyone who has a different opinion, experience or feeling is quite frankly lame.

C.

 

[dancardesigner]

I don't remember many people "bashing" you in this thread - I remember lots of people offering suggestions on how you might fix it - or saying that *they* don't either a) see it or b) get it...

As mentioned before your attitude to anyone who has a different opinion, experience or feeling is quite frankly lame.

C.

Well people should not try to convince me i'm wrong, when i know what i see and what i am talking about. I don't mind people making useful suggestions, even if they are not apllicable, at least they are trying to help. I don't like the members who try to convince me i'm wrong, or that i'm talking rubbish. If you don't see it then fine, it's obviously not a problem for you so why post?
Also i think the fact that some other members that i don't get on the best of terms with like yourself are quite frankly lame. All you do is sabotage threads looking for ways to critique victims of your own personal Vendetta, kind of like your last post. Why post that, you are not contributing anything useful, just looking for an argument.

 

[FoolKiller]

The fact i use the ''same'' monitor to compare my pc games to GT5 i think means we can safely say, the monitor can be ruled out.

Is the game the only difference between GT5 and Rfactor, and whatever other PC games? No. In fact, the only thing that is the same in your comparison is the monitor (the wheel?), every other variable is different. You have two different pieces of hardware, one designed to work with a monitor of that type and another designed to work with a TV.

You have no control to be able to point at the game itself or even the PS3 since you have no way of knowing if your overall setup may be creating an issue.

Too many people don't see it for it to be some major issue.

I guess I wonder why, when running my setup, I along with my friends and family, don't see it? If it is there, if it is a part of the game itself, why doesn't everyone see it, including every reviewer to test the game?

From this thread I see three things:

1. Some people see a lag.
2. Some people don't.
3. Some see it, adjust their settings, and no longer do.

 

[dancardesigner]

Is the game the only difference between GT5 and Rfactor, and whatever other PC games? No. In fact, the only thing that is the same in your comparison is the monitor (the wheel?), every other variable is different. You have two different pieces of hardware, one designed to work with a monitor of that type and another designed to work with a TV.

You have no control to be able to point at the game itself or even the PS3 since you have no way of knowing if your overall setup may be creating an issue.

Too many people don't see it for it to be some major issue.

I guess I wonder why, when running my setup, I along with my friends and family, don't see it? If it is there, if it is a part of the game itself, why doesn't everyone see it, including every reviewer to test the game?

From this thread I see three things:

1. Some people see a lag.
2. Some people don't.
3. Some see it, adjust their settings, and no longer do.

Like i said, if you don't see it, great for you, what you don't know can't hurt you.

Yes the setup could be the problem, PS3, have not really noticed much in other PS3 games though as most of my other games are not driving games, or are just casual racers like motorstorm, where you are not feeling and concentrating enough to notice these things.

You mention how PS3 is ''designed'' to work with a TV. Who said?

As far as i am concerned if a monitor has a HD input the monitor has been ''designed'' to work with HDMI compatible devices.

I used to play GT5 on my Pioneer plasma, but the lag was even worse, i tried every setting imaginable, and yes ''Game'' was one of them, including custom settings. Monitors are known anyway to have faster response generally than TV's as that is their main parogative.

You say not ''every'' reviewer, well that does not rule out some more hardcore reviewers of games in general, like the article posted. Maybe some reviewers are ''conditioned'' like many console gamers here that the latency they experience is acceptable in comparison to PC gamers. Or maybe it's the fact they know that the average Joe won't notice it or even care, which appears to be the general concensus in this thread, so they don't see it as worth mentioning. Reviewers don't review every aspect you know, hell a lot of things we have learnt from GT5 and Prologue have been deduced by members of this forum.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Just for the heck of it:
My PS3 is plugged in via DVI-D in a SAMSUNG SyncMaster 2493HM, no input lag.

 

[dancardesigner]

Just for the heck of it:
My PS3 is plugged in via DVI-D in a SAMSUNG SyncMaster 2493HM, no input lag.

That's good to know, I feel happy for you.

 

[d3br34k5]

2408wfp

There are multiple pages of search results on Google of end-users reporting massive lag while playing games on that specific model of monitor. Plasma screens, like the Pioneer you mentioned are also notorious for input lag issues.

Reveal your PC specifics and Game settings. There far more settings in not only GTR and rFactor themselves but also in the Logitech control panel to alleviate input lag problems with Logitech series racing controllers. Options to do so on the PS3? Only the settings on your monitor can help.

You're not the only one who knows his way around a gaming computer on this forum.

 

[Raitziger]

The truth is that most game reviewers are quite limited in their technical stuff. All reviewers usually say that any TV is good for gaming if it has HDMI connector. It is like saying Datsun 100A is good for drag racing if it has racing stripes on sides.

 

[dancardesigner]

There are multiple pages of search results on Google of end-users reporting massive lag while playing games on that specific model of monitor. Plasma screens, like the Pioneer you mentioned are also notorious for input lag issues.

Reveal your PC specifics and Game settings. There far more settings in not only GTR and rFactor themselves but also in the Logitech control panel to alleviate input lag problems with Logitech series racing controllers. Options to do so on the PS3? Only the settings on your monitor can help.

You're not the only one who knows his way around a gaming computer on this forum.

Everything in terms of what could affect lag is set to default in both my PC games and also the Logitech profiles. You say my monitor is notorious for having lag. Well put it this way, although i'm well aware my monitor sacrifices some response and output time for image quality, it is more than acceptable when playing Rfactor. The fact it is responding quick enough in Rfactor for my liking i think is enough to say the monitor is capable.

The problem here is either PS3 or GT5 period.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Have you tried other 1080p games like WipEout HD?

 

[Zer0]

.

 

[G.T.Ace]

You confused dancardesigner with Devedander right?

 

[Zer0]

Hah you right..

 

[Devedander]

Hey I don't even think I posted in this thread!

 

[dancardesigner]

Hah you right..

What happened to the you also awarded ace?

Bit of lickin up goin on hey

It's amazing what a change of mind and the edit button can do.

 

[Devedander]

I'm curious what was there before the edit

 

[dancardesigner]

I'm curious what was there before the edit

He quoted you and ace and bolded the bit from your post where you mention wether to decide buying a PS3 for GT5, as you mentioned you already had an Xbox and getting Forza.

He awarded both you and Ace a hat.

Ace tried to get on his good side by saying he meant to quote me, even though he obviosly had the correct quote cos he wouldn't have bolded the bit he wanted.

In laymens terms what is going on here is Zero had a pop at you and Ace, Ace made a sarcastic comment in other words trying to imply that im the one who doesn't own a PS3 and can't decide wether to get one for GT5, EVEN THOUGH I WILL AND DO. A typical fanboy don't talk like that about Gran turismo attitude, so Zero of course licked up to Ace and decided to remove his post and agree with Ace instead, claiming that is what he intended to begin with.

ROFL stupid fanboys

 

[Devedander]

LOL forum politics

 

[Smoke&Slide]

This input lag thing DanC mentioned, would it have something to do with the power steering option i noticed in the wheel option menu ?.I don't know if that is for the wheel you use or the wheel in the game.

 

[Raitziger]

I would be nice if someone actually measured input lag on GT5.

 

[Devedander]

So I read a few pages, Dan it seems you compare your PC input to your PS3 input, get lag on the PS3 but not on the computer... does your computer and PS3 use the same input into the TV (ie both HDMI - preferably even the same HDMI port) and at the same resolution? I think that would be the only fair test.

Many TVs introduce different levels of lag from different inputs and depending on how much scaling (ie input resolution) this might even effect it some....

Maybe you covered this and I missed it, but did you try your PC maybe with a DVI HDMI adapter to use the same input as your PS3 and test?

EDIT I just looked back and see that you use DVI/VGA for your PC and HDMI for your PS3... this could very much be the source of the issue. I strongly suggest you try a DVI to HDMI adapter and run your PC on the HDMI you normally run your PS3 on, even better if you can get your PC to output the same resolution your PS3 does...

In my experience the most common difference in input lag on TVs comes from the seperation betwee "PC" inputs and "Standard" inputs (I just chose those names). From the PC (VGA and DVI) I think the panel is assuming no scaling or only a certain type is necessary as the resolutions should be standard and who knows what else is handled by those types of connections in terms of syncing etc. However with standard inputs (the kinds normally associated with TV such as componenet and HDMI) the signal is passed through more scalers and processing which can add lag.

That's just my best guess with a lot of generaliztion, not saying this is necessarily it, and it seems pretty silly of PD to choose a monitor with lag for their demo, but who knows....

 

[G.T.Ace]

Ace made a sarcastic comment in other words trying to imply that im the one who doesn't own a PS3 and can't decide wether to get one for GT5

No?

 

[dancardesigner]

No?

Well then explain yourself

 

[G.T.Ace]

Why do i have to explain myself.
He thought he quoted you, but he didnt, i just pointed that out.