Is camber fixed? Discuss it here.

Yes and no, high torque and paddle shifting means instant lock on rear when releasing brake. Higher torque= higher engine brake, even on GT6. So hitting on high torque rev area while releasing brake means that oversteer due rear lockup.

Using twin plate clutch or original this is not happening so bad, it slips clutch during that.

ABS is Über on GT6, not saying it works as on real world, too clinical.

Yes, you can get oversteer if you downchange in to too low a gear whilst turning - it's a good technique to help rotate cars in to a corner. But that isn't brake release oversteer.

I'm surprised you are arguing against it - it's been there throughout GT5 & 6 and is a widely known 'feature'.
 
Yes, you can get oversteer if you downchange in to too low a gear whilst turning - it's a good technique to help rotate cars in to a corner. But that isn't brake release oversteer.

Not speaking down shifting, gear is there while you brake, and revs are going down on same time with braking, point where revs are when you release brake is reason. Try that same thing with one foot and its mostly gone feature, one foot= not throttle+ brake on same time.

And not directly arguing against this feature, just that is not so big as people thinks. There is much user error in it.
 
Not speaking down shifting, gear is there while you brake, and revs are going down on same time with braking, point where revs are when you release brake is reason. Try that same thing with one foot and its mostly gone feature, one foot= not throttle+ brake on same time.

If you do that it's more pronounced.

It's not a problem - more of a benefit actually as you can use it to rotate a car in to the corner.

But it's not realistic, at all.
 
If you do that it's more pronounced.

It's not a problem - more of a benefit actually as you can use it to rotate a car in to the corner.

But it's not realistic, at all.
Can you send me a setup where this is shown, I'll try to fix that setup. PM or public.
 
Checking it later today, daddy time currently.

I just checked that tune and it's an early version... I think I made some later changes to diff, dampers and ride height, and I'll pm you the updates.

Couple of comments before you drive it...

The tune is specific to RBR Seasonal TT, and this is the only track I've driven it on - IIRC, I ranked c.20th on that TT, but it might not work on other tracks.

Most importantly, the tune is built specifically for me. Unlike the tuning houses in the tuning forum, I don't build tunes for other people, but I do share my tunes in the TT forum in case anyone wants to try them. I'm not sure how fast you are, but anyone not using a wheel and at least top 50 TT pace will most likely crash/spin a lot :lol:
 
I just checked that tune and it's an early version... I think I made some later changes to diff, dampers and ride height, and I'll pm you the updates.

Couple of comments before you drive it...

The tune is specific to RBR Seasonal TT, and this is the only track I've driven it on - IIRC, I ranked c.20th on that TT, but it might not work on other tracks.

Most importantly, the tune is built specifically for me. Unlike the tuning houses in the tuning forum, I don't build tunes for other people, but I do share my tunes in the TT forum in case anyone wants to try them. I'm not sure how fast you are, but anyone not using a wheel and at least top 50 TT pace will most likely crash/spin a lot :lol:

NSX-R Prototype LM Road Car
New car from dealers, no oil change, no chassis strengthening
Ride 80 60
Spring 8.00 9.00 9.20
Bound 7 6
Rebound 6 7 6
ARB 7 7
Camber 0 0
Toe 0 0
Brakes (racing) 5 5
Gears (set max speed to minimum then gears/final)
4.916
3.795
3.103
2.583
2.156
1.829
Final 3.075
LSD 9 18 9
Power Limiter 93.4
Stage 3 weight reduction
Downforce 350 600

5min testing..
Edit: not on RBR
Edit: after RBR, rear spring+ rear damper extension
 
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NSX-R Prototype LM Road Car
New car from dealers, no oil change, no chassis strengthening
Ride 80 60
Spring 8.00 9.00
Bound 7 6
Rebound 6 7
ARB 7 7
Camber 0 0
Toe 0 0
Brakes (racing) 5 5
Gears (set max speed to minimum then gears/final)
4.916
3.795
3.103
2.583
2.156
1.829
Final 3.075
LSD 9 18 9
Power Limiter 93.4
Stage 3 weight reduction
Downforce 350 600

5min testing..

I wasn't looking for any advice on the tune... I'm more than capable of building tunes for myself that suit my ability level.

However...

I spent 6-7 hours on that TT and I know that car and track combination VERY well. How do you possibly expect me (or anyone else for that matter) to take you seriously when you suggest a few changes and say '5 mins testing'... that's what, 3 laps? :lol:

Did you just guess a few numbers and write them down?
 
I wasn't looking for any advice on the tune... I'm more than capable of building tunes for myself that suit my ability level.

However...

I spent 6-7 hours on that TT and I know that car and track combination VERY well. How do you possibly expect me (or anyone else for that matter) to take you seriously when you suggest a few changes and say '5 mins testing'... that's what, 3 laps? :lol:

Did you just guess a few numbers and write them down?
I'm not mocking you or your tune, and not guessing anything, tested with and without ABS few turns, changed few settings, tested few turns more and changing more, and third changes were close enough.
Enough understanding why body/tires moves how they move and its easy to fix.

Your problem with braking is mostly because of that not realistic approach to tune, LSD, BB, soft front, stiff rear expansion+ stiff ARB.
As you have proved that is one way to get quick car, but there comes problems with brake release etc along that. If you make that same way tune and then adjust it going fast also on noABS it probably goes cleaner and faster.
Long final gear messes rear traction easily, when doing perfect traction tune there is +/-X.X50 scale on final where it keeps traction.

Edit: after testing it on RBR one small adjust, rear spring 9.20 and rear damper extension 6. (Along with other changes mentioned on earlier post)
 
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If you do that it's more pronounced.

It's not a problem - more of a benefit actually as you can use it to rotate a car in to the corner.

But it's not realistic, at all.
I'd go so far as to say that managing the timing and resulting slip angle of brake release oversteer and setting up getting early on the throttle is the primary key to alien speed in the game.

I'm not mocking you or your tune, and not guessing anything, tested with and without ABS few turns, changed few settings, tested few turns more and changing more, and third changes were close enough.

Your problem with braking is mostly because of that not realistic approach to tune, LSD, BB, soft front, stiff rear expansion+ stiff ARB.
As you have proved that is one way to get quick car, but there comes problems with brake release etc along that. If you make that same way tune and then adjust it going fast also on noABS it probably goes cleaner and faster.
Long final gear messes rear traction easily, when doing perfect traction tune there is +/-X.X50 scale on final where it keeps traction.
His problem with braking is that he finished 20th in the world by exploiting a glitch in GT6 physics the same as every other top driver in the world. He has no "problem" with this tune you have completely misread his intent. Brake release oversteer isn't something you want to tune out because it makes you alien fast:lol:
 
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I'd go so far as to say that managing the timing and resulting slip angle of brake release oversteer and setting up getting early on the throttle is the primary key to alien speed in the game.

^^^^^What language is this?????:confused:

Its not anything that I can understand or imitate. Must be foreign or something not of this world.:boggled::D

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
His problem with braking is that he finished 20th in the world by exploiting a new glitch in GT6 physics the same as every other top driver in the world. He has no "problem" with this tune you have completely misread his intent. Brake release oversteer isn't something you want to tune out because it makes you alien fast:lol:

Half of top 50 TT LB guys would change places with different tune, and many of them will be there even with worse tune.
 
Half of top 50 TT LB guys would change places with different tune, and many of them will be there even with worse tune.
True or not it has nothing to do with what works to make people as fast as possible in the game. Controlling (not eliminating but refining to perfection) brake release oversteer, a completely unrealistic phenomenon, is the key, IMO, to being uber fast in the game. I doubt anyone at the top of the charts would disagree with me. If you can't do that, you simply cannot get to the top. No offense, but you thinking you need to "fix" this in Stotty's tune, shows you may lack a good grasp on what is fast in GT. Note I do not say what is realistic or what feels right to your driving style or how you want the game to feel, that's your individual preference and completely separate to what is "fast".
 
No offense, but you thinking you need to "fix" this in Stotty's tune, shows you may lack a good grasp on what is fast in GT. Note I do not say what is realistic or what feels right to your driving style or how you want the game to feel, that's your individual preference and completely separate to what is "fast".
Then you or him or both are willing to test that tune after my small changes, you are "WRS GT6 Division 2 Gold" guy and stotty top20 TT LB guy, then say did I just broke nice tune..
 
Let me see if I understand your position on this @Johnnypenso , and others who are unmoved by any findings in this thread.

The average car has 100 increments of camber adjustment in the front, and 100 in the back. That's 10000 variations of camber (100X100). It will also have 200 increments of toe, front and rear, so that's 40000 variations.

Just accounting for camber and toe, the tally is currently at 400000000 variations (that's 400 million).

Now, add in ten increments of compression damping on the front (400 million X 10 = 4 billion)

add ten increments of compression damping on the rear (4 billion X 10 = 40 billion)

add in the same for the extension, ten steps in front (40 billion X 10 = 400 billion)

...ten steps in the rear (400 billion X 10 = 4 trillion)


So, being at 4 trillion setup variations, let's assume that ride height, spring rate, ARB, the car's weight, power setup, transmission tuning, and diff settings will push the variations of just one car well into the hundreds of trillions.

But, out of hundreds of trillions of variation, there is only 1 fast setup. .... just 1. (?? seems a bit far fetched to me)

Call me a skeptic, but given the amount of variation, there is likely to be quite a great many setups that will arrive at the exact same result.
 
Forgot one more : driver, get someone like dholland, eclipsee, or mikegt3 to test car with camber and see lap time drop beyond mere mortal can do :lol:

I think dedicated driver ( preferably an alien with extreme consistency ) with no bias do a blind test is the best method. A fitting track would be Big Willow, where camber setup can spread it's legs with high speed long curve and some slow corners in between.
 
I'm enjoying the challenge of trying to tune for camber.
I've been playing with some old setups and having some success, which has been good.

I'm planning on revisiting the Tsukuba seasonal in my Nardo.
While it was good to see results from camber, reality is that it was a bit of a rubbish setup.
Twice as much camber on the rear?
And on the drive wheels no less. :boggled:
I need to tune the oversteer out by other means, and flatten my rear camber for better acceleration.

So I'm looking to hold some front camber, but drop almost all from the rear.
Logic suggests, to me anyway, that I should end up with a better lap time.
So in this instance, I'm barracking for the zero camber side. :sly:

I'll report back later.
 
I wasn't saying that I thought you were wrong, I was laughing that others were disregarding your experience. I think you were dead on correct.
Thanks.

My bad if I sounded snarky. Up late with sick wife and kid. You'd think I was the one on Nyquil.
 
I'm not mocking you or your tune, and not guessing anything, tested with and without ABS few turns, changed few settings, tested few turns more and changing more, and third changes were close enough.
Enough understanding why body/tires moves how they move and its easy to fix.

Your problem with braking is mostly because of that not realistic approach to tune, LSD, BB, soft front, stiff rear expansion+ stiff ARB.
As you have proved that is one way to get quick car, but there comes problems with brake release etc along that. If you make that same way tune and then adjust it going fast also on noABS it probably goes cleaner and faster.
Long final gear messes rear traction easily, when doing perfect traction tune there is +/-X.X50 scale on final where it keeps traction.

Edit: after testing it on RBR one small adjust, rear spring 9.20 and rear damper extension 6. (Along with other changes mentioned on earlier post)

Sorry to be a bit late replying, been in a meeting the past 3 hours!

As I said, I don't have a problem with braking on that car... when I had the brakes at 5,7 I would be marginally faster on occassion but less consistent, when I had them at 5,5 I wouldn't be able to run as fast as I wouldn't get the right amount of entry rotation whilst trail braking.

Brake balance of 5,6 created the right amount of rotation for me with this car/track.

Someone else might prefer a different balance.

If you were struggling with traction it's nothing to do with the gearing - it's because your LSD accel is too high at 18. I try not to be too definitive on most settings (as driving style/ability has such a big effect), but anything higher than 15 on that car/track is too high. Irrespective of ability or driving style. For a fast driver, the optimal range was 12-15. For a slower driver, 8-12.

But I stand by what I said earlier - to 'run a few corners' and then suggest changes to a tune that (without intending to sound arrogant!) was among the very fastest out there (I think @nebularis23 used my tune and was top 10, or very close) is both insulting and ridiculous.

That tune wasn't built in 5 minutes (well, that tune plus the changes I haven't posted yet!)... it was built over 2 weeks of running lap after lap after lap... ... measuring the gains and losses against my own ghost and the #1 ranked time, and making tiny adjustments to gain fractions of a second until it was 'perfect' for me.

It's not like building a tune for this thread or even the 'tuning forum', where 'good enough' is something that 'feels' nice, and runs consistent laps, but in reality, it's competitiveness isn't measured against anything.

I'd go so far as to say that managing the timing and resulting slip angle of brake release oversteer and setting up getting early on the throttle is the primary key to alien speed in the game.

Being honest, I don't use brake off oversteer excessively, primarily because I'm just not good enough to do it. I know some do this, but they are the proper Alien class drivers, and I am not one of them.

What I'm trying to achieve when I tune a car is to get the minimum amount of understeer in all 3 phases of the corner.

I start by trying to get a good overall rotational balance via ride height (as this allows me to minimise understeer in all 3 phases of cornering), then I fine tune entry rotation with brake balance and exit rotation with LSD accel.

Half of top 50 TT LB guys would change places with different tune, and many of them will be there even with worse tune.

I'm not sure what you mean by the 1st part, but the part in bold is correct.

In no tuning events, it's mostly the same people at the top.

Then you or him or both are willing to test that tune after my small changes, you are "WRS GT6 Division 2 Gold" guy and stotty top20 TT LB guy, then say did I just broke nice tune..

Yes, I can test it, but I haven't driven the car for a few weeks, and getting even close to the pace I was running originally would take at least 2 hours.. And even then, I doubt I would be able to match my previous times... Without the pressure of competition it's so hard to find the level of motivation to chase that fraction of a tenth that would give you another ranking position.

I'll run the 2 back to back, but might be a day or 2 until I can get to it due to work stuff.
 
I'm enjoying the challenge of trying to tune for camber.
I've been playing with some old setups and having some success, which has been good.

I'm planning on revisiting the Tsukuba seasonal in my Nardo.
While it was good to see results from camber, reality is that it was a bit of a rubbish setup.
Twice as much camber on the rear?
And on the drive wheels no less. :boggled:
I need to tune the oversteer out by other means, and flatten my rear camber for better acceleration.

So I'm looking to hold some front camber, but drop almost all from the rear.
Logic suggests, to me anyway, that I should end up with a better lap time.
So in this instance, I'm barracking for the zero camber side. :sly:

I'll report back later.
I run Tsukuba seasonal with Honda NSX-R prototype and my best time(52.088 no aids no abs) came with 0/0 camber.
After that I tried with front 0.3 rear 0.0 and the car was more responsive,more agile in mid corner,but I was not able
to improve my lap time.
 
I'd be interested in seeing more "blind testing" if anybody else has done so. The results from that one post I quoted earlier look intriguing but I'd need to see more data before making a hypothesis, and with blind testing there's less chance of confirmation bias seeping in (not knocking those that are doing testing, just pointing out the potential for data contamination due to subconscious behaviour).
 
I'd be interested in seeing more "blind testing" if anybody else has done so. The results from that one post I quoted earlier look intriguing but I'd need to see more data before making a hypothesis, and with blind testing there's less chance of confirmation bias seeping in (not knocking those that are doing testing, just pointing out the potential for data contamination due to subconscious behaviour).

And that was my whole point in doing it that way. 👍 I would do more, but I don't like being told that the tests are inconclusive or blame me for using obscure cars in order to skew the results.
 
This is the full final tune...

NSX-R Prototype LM Road Car
New car from dealers, no oil change, no chassis strengthening
Ride 85 70
Spring 5.50 6.61
Bound 2 3
Rebound 5 4
ARB 7 7
Camber 0 0
Toe 0 0
Brakes (racing) 5 6
Gears (set final to 3400, then max speed to minimum then gears/final)
5874
4550
3720
3065
2565
2186
Final 2500
LSD 5 15 5
Power Limiter 93.4
Stage 3 weight reduction
Downforce 350 600

Let me see if I understand your position on this @Johnnypenso , and others who are unmoved by any findings in this thread.

The average car has 100 increments of camber adjustment in the front, and 100 in the back. That's 10000 variations of camber (100X100). It will also have 200 increments of toe, front and rear, so that's 40000 variations.

Just accounting for camber and toe, the tally is currently at 400000000 variations (that's 400 million).

Now, add in ten increments of compression damping on the front (400 million X 10 = 4 billion)

add ten increments of compression damping on the rear (4 billion X 10 = 40 billion)

add in the same for the extension, ten steps in front (40 billion X 10 = 400 billion)

...ten steps in the rear (400 billion X 10 = 4 trillion)

So, being at 4 trillion setup variations, let's assume that ride height, spring rate, ARB, the car's weight, power setup, transmission tuning, and diff settings will push the variations of just one car well into the hundreds of trillions.

But, out of hundreds of trillions of variation, there is only 1 fast setup. .... just 1. (?? seems a bit far fetched to me)

Call me a skeptic, but given the amount of variation, there is likely to be quite a great many setups that will arrive at the exact same result.

It's true that there are, in effect, almost infinite variations of settings (once you start multiplying everything by the range of spring combinations!).

But once you understand what fundamentally works as a basis, and then quickly test and discount any extremes, you can very quickly narrow the range of variables.

If you then understand how the really important variables (ride height, brake balance and LSD) interact and specifically effect the balance of the car you can quite quickly get to something that's >90% 'there'.

After that, it's fine tuning.

But of course there isn't ONE fast tune!

I often get @eclipsee tunes, and given he's one of the top 10 fastest drivers in the World you'd think this would be a massive advantage. But more often than not, I struggle to drive his tunes... they are just too unstable/loose for my skills to manage. However, the principles we would use for tuning a TT car are the same, and if you looked at one of my tunes, one of Ramons or say one of @SW__10, they would look very similar in a lot of areas.

It's not a matter of being close minded. But over the life of the game you get to the point that you understand how the physics engine and tuning variable interact and you go with what you know until it doesn't work... and there are cars that are exceptions.
 
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I'm about to put a new concept out there, just because I know how coders work.

I think that the camber DISPLAY is broken like ride height is (in mm, but says inches). I THINK 10.0 camber is actually 25.5 degrees.

I am looking to find a clear pic of this.
 
I'm about to put a new concept out there, just because I know how coders work.

I think that the camber DISPLAY is broken like ride height is (in mm, but says inches). I THINK 10.0 camber is actually 25.5 degrees.

I am looking to find a clear pic of this.

That would be hilarious :lol:

But nothing would surprise me with this game.
 
10 = 25.5, I highly doubt it :lol: I got a stanced car with 3 front camber and 5 rear camber and it can lap Big Willow in 1:26s on CS tire, the car has 500HP and 1400+kg :P stock gearbox, stock power/weight, only tuned LSD and suspension.

Visually camber are correct :) I might try 10 rear camber on the car :D It's a FR with twin turbo setup :P
 
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Looking at a few of my drift cars which have 10* of 'game' camber... it could be 25* :lol:
 

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