Is camber fixed? Discuss it here.

[LeoStrop]

Trying to find youtube videos ( onboard cam with pedal work view ) with japanese dudes inducing oversteer with braking application ( from pressing to release ) accompanied by small drifts to exit I saw lots of them back in the day ( 90's ), Nakaya and Tsuchiya loves to do it, and the flashy entry to exit of Evo V & VI by Nakaya, one of them : entry oversteer by braking on a stock Evo VI RS with AYC during a race at tsukuba ( the esses and last hairpin ) that almost cause a wreck with RX7 RS ( Gan san ) and Evo VI (Takuya ) - 1999 BM. Someone have seen on youtube - Tsuchiya test drive at Shizuoka suburb driving the R34 GTR Vspec with winding road drift by braking on entry oversteer ? As he release the brake pedal, he counter steered and drift out of the corner like a boss I have the video, but there's no way to upload it

Not the ones you pointed out, but i think they show what you want:

Spoiler: Videos

Nakaya, the best evo driver, ever!

 

[OdeFinn]

Yes, in real life you wouldn't have a BB more rear biased as the car would become massively unstable, but the game allows it, and the physics model means you benefit from it. But it remains the case that 'brake release oversteer' still happens on some cars that have not been modified in any way!

I'm not sure if you really understand what 'Brake Drifting' is (maybe from @Johnnypenso replies?)... brake drift uses the application of the brake to transfer weight to the front tyres, unload the rear and thus create rotation.

Can you name few cars what make this on default settings, like to see their stats and test them.

Releasing brakes from clinic ABS switches from braking/rolling to engine drivetrain and your LSD setup, this change breaks traction. Using rear biased brakes doesn't help situation, more like doing that final pump what starts slide. GT6.

Really like to see and test those cars what behave on default as described.

 

[0ldman279]

Pretty sure the Shelby GT350 does that out of the box.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Not the ones you pointed out, but i think they show what you want:

Spoiler: Videos

Nakaya, the best evo driver, ever!

Dori Dori in the R32 GTR tire test Those drifts, only by braking The last tire chosen 235 front and 265 rear ( 17 inch or 18 inch ), those are well proven combo for R32 and R33 Skyline ( GTST and GTR ) with stock to low power upgrade ( less than 400PS ) Toyo or Yokohama were the best in those days ( 90's to early 2000 )

Check the R32 GTR video @OdeFinn, is that what you are trying to say ? The car in that video is stock besides the variety of size of tires being used.

 

[Stotty]

Can you name few cars what make this on default settings, like to see their stats and test them.

Really like to see and test those cars what behave on default as described.

There are 1 or 2 I have in mind where IIRC, it's really obvious... let me quickly test them and I'll send you them 👍

Not the ones you pointed out, but i think they show what you want:

Spoiler: Videos

Nakaya, the best evo driver, ever!

I haven't been able to view the 3 videos in their entirety, what I did see there was no brake release oversteer... plenty of applying the brake to cause a front weight transfer and unsettle the rear on turn in though.

Driving looks decent enough, but you can tell they are old as they are all right foot braking

 

[OdeFinn]

Pretty sure the Shelby GT350 does that out of the box.

High torque engine, soft suspension, matches previously mentioned reasons. Difficult car to master on hard drive.

Check the R32 GTR video @OdeFinn, is that what you are trying to say ?

There was few turns where driver applies similar technique, improv situation.

There are 1 or 2 I have in mind where IIRC, it's really obvious... let me quickly test them and I'll send you them 👍

Ok.

 

[JDM_ALLSTARS]

Any had some problems with feeling a difference in their cars lately? I started up my wheel on gt6 the other day and every car I use to drift with wants to straighten out right away. I havent changed any my wheel settings or car tunes, never had this happen before.

 

[Thorin Cain]

@Ridox2JZGTE. Sorry about the delay, been a bit on the busy side. Here is the data from my Tsukuba test. There is data missing from the 0.0/0.0 run and the 1.6/0.6 run as both of these files were giving me weird numbers when I was analysing the data. I'll run these two sets again and get the data for them, then update the table and re-post it hopefully today, but may be tomorrow before I get the chance.

http://jmp.sh/CJurzHd

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

///

@Ridox2JZGTE. Sorry about the delay, been a bit on the busy side. Here is the data from my Tsukuba test. There is data missing from the 0.0/0.0 run and the 1.6/0.6 run as both of these files were giving me weird numbers when I was analysing the data. I'll run these two sets again and get the data for them, then update the table and re-post it hopefully today, but may be tomorrow before I get the chance.

http://jmp.sh/CJurzHd

Link don't work

 

[Thorin Cain]

Give me a bit and I'll try again. New to this stuff

 

[Thorin Cain]

Try again.

https://jumpshare.com/v/uuDIw3PbQcL9rOSoUQwK?b=E3zg1ChpMXx1iSPv6Te0

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

http://jmp.sh/gip1rDi Try again.

Tried to click it twice, opens new tab and both only blank page

 

[Thorin Cain]

Not sure why it isn't working

 

[Thorin Cain]

Tried to click it twice, opens new tab and both only blank page

Ok, got it working. it's in try again post

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Ok, got it working. it's in try again post

Thank you, it works

 

[CSLACR]

This is by no means scientific, but with my regular setup on the vw w12 nardo, I was doing 53.7 at best on the Tsukuba 600pp seasonal. I did like the way it drove, it felt great. I added camber, 0.4 front 0.6 rear ended up being the fastest with the same setup as 0.0 camber. I went from 53.7 to 52.9 Car was much easier to get out of turn one and turn 4 (before the bridge). If I went further in camber the car became 'too responsive' and wanted to oversteer.

But there is a time even faster than yours with 0/0 camber.
You're welcome to keep playing with it as long as you like, but from early on in GT6 life, the first thing I do to improve a car is set the camber to 0.

Whether physics have improved is debatable IMO. Cars "feel" better with a wheel but when you get into specifics it's a grey area. Ride height is still backwards. Camber doesn't work either like real camber or like GT5 and it's hard to go wrong with 0/0 in every situation. They changed the grip dynamics and shifted much of it into the tire model and out of the chassis as it was in GT5 but IMO many of the older cars stick to the track far too well relative to modern cars on the same tire. Of course this is only an issue if you look at it as a sim where you are trying to simulate the grip of a 1960's bias ply tire. If you think of it as a sports hard is a sports hard regardless of the era then it's fine. There are top speed/aerodynamic issues. ABS doesn't really work like ABS, brake release oversteer is still there...etc.

Cars feel better, weight transfer is probably better, loss of grip is more progressive for the most part but there are still plenty of issues that need to be worked out in GT7 for GT to truly be a "sim" IMO

On the subject of older cars and their tires, I think a key element is that some of the older muscle cars will out-corner newer cars on the same tires, and it's something I also disagree with.
A 1969 muscle car should not out-corner a 1990(just about anything), on the same tires.

I am 100% agreed with the concept of using today's tires in the game, as the probability of finding 50 year old tires that work, let alone can handle racing is slim at best.

On the other hand, some other cars seem to have been jilted in this aspect, like the Ferrari F40, which seems to be stuck in 1994, with 1994 tires, I have to presume. I believe a 1971 Mustang can out-corner this car in the game...

IMO the whole game needs a workover that simply isn't going to happen. It's "good enough" as it is, and it's likely to stay the same for another decade.

 

[ALB123]

I'm not saying that this has anything to do with the camber working or not, but I think it's funny that they actually modeled the tire tread to look like Yokohama tires. Are they trying to say that Yokohama tires provide the level of grip that they do in the game? Here is a screen shot of the tires available in Gran Turismo 5 (I couldn't find a screenshot of GT6 quickly, but the tread patterns are the same). Look at the pattern of the middle tires - the Sport Tires:

Here is a photo of real Yokohama tires (model A048):

I didn't bother looking up Yokohama street tires, but I would assume that our Comfort Tires tread pattern are also very similar to a real life Yokohama street tire.

 

[killerjimbag]

I'm not saying that this has anything to do with the camber working or not, but I think it's funny that they actually modeled the tire tread to look like Yokohama tires. Are they trying to say that Yokohama tires provide the level of grip that they do in the game? Here is a screen shot of the tires available in Gran Turismo 5 (I couldn't find a screenshot of GT6 quickly, but the tread patterns are the same). Look at the pattern of the middle tires - the Sport Tires:

View attachment 293264

Here is a photo of real Yokohama tires (model A048):

View attachment 293265

I didn't bother looking up Yokohama street tires, but I would assume that our Comfort Tires tread pattern are also very similar to a real life Yokohama street tire.

The GT5 pic the tread is backwards compared to the real Yokohama pic.

 

[trustjab]

But there is a time even faster than yours with 0/0 camber.
You're welcome to keep playing with it as long as you like, but from early on in GT6 life, the first thing I do to improve a car is set the camber to 0.

I use an old ds3 and automatic transmission. Im in no way a representative of as fast as what is possible. My point is I had the w12 setup with 0/0 camber, for the past year actually, but once I put that amount on there, it improved. Especially at tight tsukuba.

 

[CSLACR]

I doubt controller or transmission would affect it at all, but as noted, there's someone standing behind every possible argument, no matter how reasonable or otherwise it seems to others.

 

[scholesy1899]

I'm not saying that this has anything to do with the camber working or not, but I think it's funny that they actually modeled the tire tread to look like Yokohama tires. Are they trying to say that Yokohama tires provide the level of grip that they do in the game? Here is a screen shot of the tires available in Gran Turismo 5 (I couldn't find a screenshot of GT6 quickly, but the tread patterns are the same). Look at the pattern of the middle tires - the Sport Tires:

View attachment 293264

Here is a photo of real Yokohama tires (model A048):

View attachment 293265

I didn't bother looking up Yokohama street tires, but I would assume that our Comfort Tires tread pattern are also very similar to a real life Yokohama street tire.

Funnily enough, if you look at the tire page within Tuning Parts it actually states at the bottom: Powered by YOKOHAMA

As does KW for sussy, but whoever liaised/captured data/implemented data/downright fudged it all needs shooting.

Back to the topic at hand.

 

[OdeFinn]

Yes, I can test it, but I haven't driven the car for a few weeks, and getting even close to the pace I was running originally would take at least 2 hours.. And even then, I doubt I would be able to match my previous times... Without the pressure of competition it's so hard to find the level of motivation to chase that fraction of a tenth that would give you another ranking position.

I'll run the 2 back to back, but might be a day or 2 until I can get to it due to work stuff.

How your test went? @Johnnypenso how your test went?

There are 1 or 2 I have in mind where IIRC, it's really obvious... let me quickly test them and I'll send you them 👍

I'm still waiting these.

This thread is dying..

 

[Stotty]

I'm still waiting these.

This thread is dying..

Haven't had much time for GT last week or so - 30 mins on the Tsukuba TT and a few runs on the Toscana A spec event.

I did test one of the cars I'd previously had a lot of brake release oversteer with stock settings (the LFA), but after the change to +0.60 rear toe and addition of camber, it won't do anything but understeer now

Might be true for all cars following the stock toe adjustment, but others will verify it was there before the change.

The thread will die - there's really nothing more to say.

 

[Johnnypenso]

How your test went? @Johnnypenso how your test went?


I'm still waiting these.

This thread is dying..

Me test? Joke of the day right there. I can't analyze someone else's results without getting chewed on, surely no one would believe I was impartially testing anything. Besides, I did all the testing I needed to do months ago and I have yet to see any convincing evidence from anyone in this thread, and I doubt my own testing at this point would reveal anything different.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

How your test went? @Johnnypenso how your test went?


I'm still waiting these.

This thread is dying..

Noooooo, we can't let the thread die, what would @Johnnypenso have to do then?

 

[RyanRacer]

What is the verdict then? Is camber fixed, broken, or fixed only up until 1.0 degrees?

 

[Johnnypenso]

What is the verdict then? Is camber fixed, broken, or fixed only up until 1.0 degrees?

First you have to define verdict. All the test results are linked in the OP, feel free to browse and see if you can find a definite answer.

 

[RyanRacer]

First you have to define verdict. All the test results are linked in the OP, feel free to browse and see if you can find a definite answer.

Verdict in this case = undisputed fact.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Verdict in this case = undisputed fact.

Please share with the group how you came to this undisputed conclusion.

 

[RyanRacer]

Please share with the group how you came to this undisputed conclusion.

I am lazy and don't want to look up the official definition, what I really meant to ask was if it was fixed or not. But I think I'll just have a look at the OP and test it out myself.